Mini 1556: Greetings Without Spain (GAME OVER FAREWELL)

[Rubicon]

Only if the scum shoot into our unconfirmed null reads, right?

[Kthxbye]

Im wary of the fitz wagon now. He flaked AND it appears to have scums support.

UNVOTE:

On phone, more later.

[Rubicon]

I'm down to lynch either of fitz/epm.

Not sure what to make of epm's support. I'm treating his most recent post as WIFOM.

Not sure what to make of your unvote either, though.

[ICEninja]

I'm assuming fitz is scum and that after today there will only be 2 scum, against 3 confirmed town assuming I succeed.

[ICEninja]

For the record I don't feel locked in to lynching fitz today. With the current information we have, I prefer a fitz lynch, but will tolerate either of RC or EPM. Probably a slight preference on EPM.

We're going to have to lynch fitz anyway. Tomorrow we can decide who to lynch between RC and EPM when the low hanging fruit scum is already taken out.

[N]

I think iceninja should try to clear another town for us. I'd much rather him alive tomorrow. Even if we Lynch scum today, his death tonight would mean tomorrow is mylo.

[Rhinox]

I think iceninja should try to clear another town for us. I'd much rather him alive tomorrow. Even if we Lynch scum today, his death tonight would mean tomorrow is mylo.

I agree this would be best. However, if he hides behind scum while trying to clear town then it would still be mylo tomorrow but likely with only 1 conftown still alive, where as if he announces to try to find scum, and scum kill his target and him, we'd still have 2 conftown alive tomorrow for mylo. But, the odds of being able to clear a townie are greater than the odds of confirming a scum, and if he lives he can "investigate" again the next night, so thats why I concur with not announcing and trying to clear a townie.

Im wary of the fitz wagon now. He flaked AND it appears to have scums support.

UNVOTE:

On phone, more later.

So if fitz isn't scum, who is the scum team then?

Well, I've been attempting to pressure you because you haven't been under serious pressure before in the game. If ICE, Equinox, N, you and me are all town, the scum have to be in Kthxbye, Red Coyote, fitz, epicpacman: But there are a lot of reasons to think both Kthxbye and Red Coyote are town.

But your reactions do seem very genuine, so I don't know.

I think the way forward may be to act as if the game had 2 scum (fitz and pacman, most likely) and not worry about a third until we have them flipped and the game doesn't end.

UNVOTE:

fair enough, I guess. The bolded is pretty much what I was already doing anyways.

For the record I don't feel locked in to lynching fitz today. With the current information we have, I prefer a fitz lynch, but will tolerate either of RC or EPM. Probably a slight preference on EPM.

We're going to have to lynch fitz anyway. Tomorrow we can decide who to lynch between RC and EPM when the low hanging fruit scum is already taken out.

What do you (and others) think about the idea that a commuter is not a white-listed normal role in relation to RC's alignment? I think it'd be a pretty risky role to fake claim given that any other non-whitelisted role would effectively be a counter claim, since only 1 non-whitelisted role is allowable. That makes it not a very likley role for scum to fake claim IMO. Do you think its possible RC could have replaced in and decided to just crumb a standard protection role from the list in the link without cross-referencing whether it would actually be a whitelisted role?

[Bicephalous Bob]

idk replaces havingfitz.

[RedCoyote]

At the very least, we ought to hear a claim from idk before lynching that slot. Again, I'm not really opposed to lynching the slot (how can you be, honestly?), but pacman remains my best choice as long as players are willing to entertain it. I feel strongly about this read, and I do not often say that as town given that I do not consider scumhunting to be one of my strong suits.

I need to read the last page, but I just want to continue to let the town know that we have other options. Lynching pacman/myself/ICE would certainly be the more risky move, but taking calculated risks is easier when you have players that are likely cleared. Additionally, I am willing and able to make a case for anyone that is right now opposed or indifferent to the idea of lynching pacman (Rhinox, Equinox, idk, Kthx) from a scumreading or strategic perspective, but is open to the idea.

[idk]

Alright, just letting you guys know I'm here, currently reading through what's happened so far.

[RedCoyote]

Very cool. Unfortunately you're currently in a pretty rough position, idk. It would be great if you could read the entire game, but that could certainly be daunting for your first (?) game. I don't know how much experience you have offsite, but we tend to get a bit wordy here at MS.

Even though you haven't asked, I'll try to sum up the game as best I can:

Spoiler: Game Summary

D1 has Kthx arguing with Kcda (now Rubicon) to the point where both players were strongly voting each other. Meanwhile, Xayzeck's wagon grew to L-1 on account of his strange relationship with pisskop (now me) and his continual empty promises for activity and content. His lynch was bungled, however, when the players misread the amount of votes. Some people then took Xay's post after his "hammer" as proof that he was town, others didn't, but ultimately the momentum shifted toward pisskop because of his faux hammer. pisskop looked like the eventual lynch until 347 which brought suspicion of pisskop down in favor of Titus. Titus didn't have much impact on the game, so you don't really need to read her posts. Just know that she was the lynch and which players ended up supporting her wagon. Rhinox's 453 is a very good analysis of the lynch wagon. Start of D2, pisskop is quickly pushed to L-1 (I think, maybe just L-2). Replacements for pisskop, Luc (N), Thom (Equinox), and Aisa (pacman) happen here. I successfully manage to stop the wagon on myself in favor of Xay. pacman is considered during D2, but Rubicon never really gets off the wagon off ground. ICE and I bickered a lot, but ICE eventually votes Xay (the eventual lynch) along with myself, Kthx, pacman, Equinox and Rubicon. No nightkill happens on N2. D3 is where we're at now with three major claims having occurred. ICE claimed compulsive hider. He must hide every night. He dies if he hides behind scum and survives if he hides behind town (that isn't killed). He has successfully hidden behind N and Equinox. pacman claimed doctor that protected Equinox N2 and no one on N1. I claimed 2-shot commuter that has used one shot on N1. Current discussions being had are debating the veracity of the claims and whether they're scum-aligned or not (Equinox's 814 is a good one to read). We're also naturally discussing the lynch for today. The main serious candidates being myself, pacman, and you. Rubicon has also been talking about lynching Rhinox or the benefits of a no lynch, but I haven't seen either of these options gain much traction so far.

At the very least, please read that spoiler and the posts I linked to within. If you want and are able to read the whole game however, please be my guest.

[ICEninja]

What do you (and others) think about the idea that a commuter is not a white-listed normal role in relation to RC's alignment? I think it'd be a pretty risky role to fake claim given that any other non-whitelisted role would effectively be a counter claim, since only 1 non-whitelisted role is allowable. That makes it not a very likley role for scum to fake claim IMO. Do you think its possible RC could have replaced in and decided to just crumb a standard protection role from the list in the link without cross-referencing whether it would actually be a whitelisted role?

This is basically why I have a slight preference of lynching EPM over RC.

The fact is, however, that I still have my D1 wagon reasoning. That never really went away, it just became less important in the face of new, more significant, information. RC being town means there really were 3 wagons on 3 town on D1, which is crazy. I suppose at this juncture, however, I have to admit that I could be wrong about all of that largely because of what you just said.

I kind of feel bad for idk right now, as lynching his slot really is the best option at the moment.

[idk]

Last post read: #884 by idk

Alright, I've read through Day 3, and a little bit of Day 1. Will try and completely catch up later.

Anyway, I feel confident that evilpacman's claim is fake. It seemed very forced, and, as far as I know, he didn't have any reason to claim. Not to mention his play hasn't exactly been the best, either. That being said, Aisa, who, if I'm not mistaken, pacman replaced, seemed pretty town, aside from the seemingly random self vote day 1.

I'm inclined to believe ICEninja's claim, seems pretty genuine to me.

RedCoyote's claim, on the other hand, is hard to figure out. Commuter is definitely an interesting role, and definitely not one of the most believable claims, but that could be exactly why he claimed it. Seems like a lot of WIFOM to me.

As I like to avoid using WIFOM as a reason to vote whenever possible, I'll

VOTE: VOTE: EVILPACMAN18

Pre-edit:

Very cool. Unfortunately you're currently in a pretty rough position, idk. It would be great if you could read the entire game, but that could certainly be daunting for your first (?) game. I don't know how much experience you have offsite, but we tend to get a bit wordy here at MS.

Even though you haven't asked, I'll try to sum up the game as best I can:

Spoiler: Game Summary

D1 has Kthx arguing with Kcda (now Rubicon) to the point where both players were strongly voting each other. Meanwhile, Xayzeck's wagon grew to L-1 on account of his strange relationship with pisskop (now me) and his continual empty promises for activity and content. His lynch was bungled, however, when the players misread the amount of votes. Some people then took Xay's post after his "hammer" as proof that he was town, others didn't, but ultimately the momentum shifted toward pisskop because of his faux hammer. pisskop looked like the eventual lynch until 347 which brought suspicion of pisskop down in favor of Titus. Titus didn't have much impact on the game, so you don't really need to read her posts. Just know that she was the lynch and which players ended up supporting her wagon. Rhinox's 453 is a very good analysis of the lynch wagon. Start of D2, pisskop is quickly pushed to L-1 (I think, maybe just L-2). Replacements for pisskop, Luc (N), Thom (Equinox), and Aisa (pacman) happen here. I successfully manage to stop the wagon on myself in favor of Xay. pacman is considered during D2, but Rubicon never really gets off the wagon off ground. ICE and I bickered a lot, but ICE eventually votes Xay (the eventual lynch) along with myself, Kthx, pacman, Equinox and Rubicon. No nightkill happens on N2. D3 is where we're at now with three major claims having occurred. ICE claimed compulsive hider. He must hide every night. He dies if he hides behind scum and survives if he hides behind town (that isn't killed). He has successfully hidden behind N and Equinox. pacman claimed doctor that protected Equinox N2 and no one on N1. I claimed 2-shot commuter that has used one shot on N1. Current discussions being had are debating the veracity of the claims and whether they're scum-aligned or not (Equinox's 814 is a good one to read). We're also naturally discussing the lynch for today. The main serious candidates being myself, pacman, and you. Rubicon has also been talking about lynching Rhinox or the benefits of a no lynch, but I haven't seen either of these options gain much traction so far.

At the very least, please read that spoiler and the posts I linked to within. If you want and are able to read the whole game however, please be my guest.

Wow, that makes it much easier haha. I've played around 10 games offsite, so I'm not new to the game, but still, thank you very much.

[Rubicon]

Wanna claim?

[idk]

Wanna claim?

Just your friendly neighborhood VT.

[idk]

Er, that could've been worded better.

Just a VT, not a neighbor.

[ICEninja]

Looks like we have a bit of a 1v1 here in idk and epm.

I want to hear what Kthx has to say.

[Kthxbye]

I don't have a whole lot of time Sun through Thurs. But, this is where I'm at with this.

The fitz wagon was far too easy. He was not posting and I don't remember even a hint of argument against it. Not saying idk is town, but the wagon just starting giving me an odd feeling, thus the unvote.

RedCoyote
Rubicon
Rhinox
evilpacman18
idk

Within ^this pool is probably 3 scum assuming normal numbers.

RC (3):

Titus

, EPM,

d3x

Kthx

(1): Rub

Titus

(7): Rhinox,

ICE

,

Eq

, RC,

xay

,

N

,

kthx

-- LYNCH

not voting: idk

Xay

(6): RC,

kthxbye

, evilpacman18,

ICEninja

,

Equinox

, Rubicon -- LYNCH
pacman (2):

Xayzeck

,

N

Not voting (2): idk, Rhinox

D1's lynch most likely had 1 scum on it. That mean's RC or Rhinox (maybe both?) are scum.

I'm surprisingly leaning town on RC right now due to how he handled the EPM claim. This also makes sense as I don't see RC's D1 wagon being completely town at the end of the day? I dunno, that VCA is just weird without a scum flip.

D2's lynch at at least 1 scum on it. maybe 2. That's EPM and/or Rub.

Honestly, I'm calling it right now. Scum team is:

EPM
Rub
Rhinox/RC/idk

Willing to lynch in that order

VOTE: EPM

[Rubicon]

Noice

VOTE: epicpacman

[Rubicon]

evilpacman (3): idk, Kthxbye, Rubicon
fitz (3): ICEninja, Rhinox, N
Not voting (3): Equinox, evilpacman18, RedCoyote

5 to lynch

EPM is still not voting RC.

IDK is probably bussing but that's okay.

[RedCoyote]

Awesome. I'm of course happy to vote pacman, but I want to wait and hear from N/Equinox. I will keep him off of L-1 until they can chime in if they have anything to add.

[ICEninja]

Epm is a tolerable lynch.

[N]

I dunno, I kinda believed epm's claim. Or maybe I just hoped it was true because then the game would be broken, which is actually a good reason to disbelieve the claim.

[ICEninja]

See this is why I want to lynch idk. There isn't a good reason to NOT lynch him, whereas with both EPM there is going to be some measure of doubt. I suppose Kthx's point is decent though. I still prefer an idk lynch but I'm ok hammering EPM if that's the direction we're moving.

In all seriousness at this point I just can't really conceieve of a scum team not involving that slot. It is the lower risk lynch IMO.

[RedCoyote]

Mod

, Equinox is due for a prod, I think.