*GAME OVER* Mini 1690 - Zed's Tavern! (Mafia Win!)

[SilverWolf]

Shoot, Mahonster has no completed games to meta.

Grrrrrr.........................

[Ozgin]

Votecount 2.02

Someone ordered a special brand of the Bloody Mary at Zed's. It's a house blend called a "Bloody Chevre."

• [L-6] Grimmjow (1):
  pisskop
  
  [L-6] pisskop (1):
  Cheetory6
  
  [L-6] davesaz (1):
  Mahonster
  
  [L-3] Mahonster (4):
  dragonspawn, Quaroath, SilverWolf, Aeronaut
  
  

Currently Not Voting:

davesaz, Shiro, zakk, Jazzmyn, Billi Biladi

(expired on 2015-07-15 00:00:00) until Day 2 is over.

[Aeronaut]

Ozgin, wouldn't it be 7 to lynch?

[SilverWolf]

OK, Don't have time for in depth analysis but of dave and Shiro meta:

-Dave doesn't post a lot as either alignment, in open 594 as scum he posted very similar to this game, he gave thoughts and opinions but nothing too indepth, in NY 183 as town he did a little more analysis than he did as scum so I'm going to give him a nullscum read, him being on Chevre wagon also leans scum.

-Shiro: Seemed even more involved as scum back when I played with him in my first newbie here 1532. In NY 181 he seemed not as active as town doc and more UTR, my guess is he doesn't get as involved as town then he does as scum. nulltown for now

Jassmyn is next

[SilverWolf]

sorry-Jazzmyn

[dragonspawn]

I think aero is right

[SilverWolf]

Actually, forget it. Jazzmyn needs to post more here before I can meta. Scratch that.

zakk's newbie 1604 was a replace in and he barely said anything before he was lynched 1609 he was pretty darn town with really good analysis, I have not seen that here yet-still leaning scum here because of his D2 play

Quaroath-Open 329, town, low content poster, didn't say much at all, other than that it's starting to get into old mini's and I don't trust mini's or old meta to figure out alignments, I just don't know about Quaroath, null or maybe a slight scum lean for being unreadable

[SilverWolf]

OK, so good with my vote but mahonster is more of a null than a true scumread, I don't like all his excuses for giving no content and I like that dragon and Aero are on the wagon with me

davesaz-I'd be good with a lynch here today based on angry reaction to pressure, being on Chevre wagon, and similar play to his scum game

Jazzmyn-could lynch here also but it's based solely on lack of content and bad posting, I'd be willing to listen to what Jazzmyn has to say and give us some content before judging

zakk-also could lynch, change in play I don't like

Quaroath-I'd be willing to consider it because I can't figure him out

Not interested in dragon, Aero, pisskop, or Billi lynch-they are all townreads that I feel good about reading as town right now. Cheetory looks a lot better now so I'm willing to consider that Blocky was just overwhelmed newbie. Everyone else I've discussed. This is basically where I am right now.

I'd like to resolve Jazzmyn and zakk still. Wishy washy on mahonster and Quaroath, need more time there too I think. I'm seriously considering a davesaz lynch today.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin, wouldn't it be 7 to lynch?

Yep, because there's 12 alive. I wouldn't mind this also being in the vote counts.

@Ozgin

, mahonster is at L-3

[Mahonster]

Shoot, Mahonster has no completed games to meta.

Grrrrrr.........................

[Mahonster]

^lol gg

[Billi bilaði]

...
So are we interested in an on the wagon or off wagon flips?

Quaroth or Grimm/dave lynches plz.

Well, Grimm was just replaced, so no lynch on him for the time being.
dave is a lurker in my book but I have him as slight town. Possible wagon material.
Quaroath is one of my scum reads, so, I would support a wagon and consider a lynch there.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: davesaz

Wagon needs to happen, gogogo.

[SilverWolf]

Everyone who has not already done so please give up your top scumreads and why.

TIA

[zakk]

But I

think

I know what he's hinting at.

What did you think I was hinting at?

[pisskop]

But I

think

I know what he's hinting at.

What did you think I was hinting at?

Nope

[SilverWolf]

But I

think

I know what he's hinting at.

What did you think I was hinting at?

How about you just fucking tell us and stop being fucking useless?

K?

[Jazzmyn]

Everyone who has not already done so please give up your top scumreads and why.
TIA

I have already given my top scumreads based on my first readthrough of the thread but, as mentioned last night, I still need to read everyone in ISO more closely to see if my initial reads hold up (for me) once I've done more in depth reads of players on an individual basis. That looks like something that will take me longer than just the available time I have this evening, so I thought what I would do is start my ISO reads of the players who struck me as most scummy during my initial readthrough and post them up as I complete them rather than waiting until I finish all of the ISO reads. I tend to prefer to do all of my reads before posting my conclusions because that saves me from having to go back and correct, change or retract stuff later after I've completed a particular ISO read when I (inevitably) missed or misinterpreted some stuff in my initial readthrough, but it occurs to me that doing it this way might be just as good and will break up what might otherwise become either walls of text or a whole bunch of posts in a row.

So, starting with zakk, since he's the one I have the strongest scum read on.

- Contradictory: in #55 he said that he is quite experienced at Mafia, having played “a number of games here, and also a ton in real life and on other sites” but more recently he’s been playing the “poor me, newbie card”.

- I don’t buy his responses to the ‘fake hammer’ bit. He clearly knew that he had 4 votes on him because he was actively posting at the time and responded to them in the thread; then he saw 2 more votes, which put him at L-1, because he posted twice in response then as well, once to claim VT and say that it was preposterous and again to ask people to unvote, etc. But then a couple of hours later, he posted, “Oh, am I not actually at L-1? LOL.” Then, after the fake “lynch” vote, he said that he knew it wasn’t really a lynch because he knew that Dragon was on his wagon. This indicates his awareness of not only how many votes he had, but also who the voters were, which is inconsistent with his later claim to have not known he was at L-1 when he was. Not the biggest deal on the planet, of course, but his posts struck me as false when I read them, and there is no reason for a VT to fib like that.


- Wanting to keep Chev alive even though Chev was scummy and even though zakk had by then put Silver as “one of his strongest” town reads” (247), and even though zakk noticed the soft vig claim by Silver suggesting that Chev was lying about his vig claim, which ought to have led to suspicion in his mind as to the veracity of Chev’s claim; this suggests to me scum who didn't believe the vig claim but wanted an SK around to help kill townies for a while.

- Contradictory: looking at his D1 posts in which he said he is so excited to play, that he’s really really town, etc., things changed later in the day and he started saying that he’s going to read the thread and make a real post but hasn’t had time, then continues not to do so, and then even when he had the opportunity over a twilight/night period that lasted nearly four days, he says he didn’t bother because he didn’t want to put in the effort if he was going to be NK’d. This doesn’t really make sense to me because with the amount of suspicion on him on D1, it was highly unlikely that, if he were town, he would be targeted for NKing by scum, and it doesn’t line up with his previous posts. When the new day started on June 30, he said he was half way through, but he does not seem to have contributed much since then beyond saying that he’ll say more later.

- On preview, I just saw his latest post (764) in which he is back to asking Pis what Pis thought he was hinting at way on page 2, even though when he did this the first time (after casting a vote without reasons at the time but saying he would give his reasons later, which he still has not done), it looked like he was trying to get someone else to say something for him to use to try to justify his vote.

Next up, Mahon. (Not sure how many of these I can get through tonight but one more anyway.)

Regards,
Jazz

[SilverWolf]

- Wanting to keep Chev alive even though Chev was scummy and even though zakk had by then put Silver as “one of his strongest” town reads” (247), and even though zakk noticed the soft vig claim by Silver suggesting that Chev was lying about his vig claim, which ought to have led to suspicion in his mind as to the veracity of Chev’s claim; this suggests to me scum who didn't believe the vig claim but wanted an SK around to help kill townies for a while.

- Contradictory: looking at his D1 posts in which he said he is so excited to play, that he’s really really town, etc., things changed later in the day and he started saying that he’s going to read the thread and make a real post but hasn’t had time, then continues not to do so, and then even when he had the opportunity over a twilight/night period that lasted nearly four days, he says he didn’t bother because he didn’t want to put in the effort if he was going to be NK’d. This doesn’t really make sense to me because with the amount of suspicion on him on D1, it was highly unlikely that, if he were town, he would be targeted for NKing by scum, and it doesn’t line up with his previous posts. When the new day started on June 30, he said he was half way through, but he does not seem to have contributed much since then beyond saying that he’ll say more later.

Jazzmyn's meta is all old so I won't bother with it but I do like this post. The first part was a huge red flag to me on zakk. Why is he working so hard to save Chevre? Considering he even pointed out in one of his posts that Chevre could be the SK. I thought he was trying to get towncred for protecting a claimed PR which is something I can totally see coming from scum. BUT, I never even considered he might actually want the SK around because I was always under the impression that scum hate SK's and want them dead. Plus, Chevre had zakk and myself as scumreads so there was a chance Chevre could of shot zakk although I was pretty sure he would of killed me and that's why I wanted him dead.

The second paragraph perfectly describes my biggest problem with zakk. He is assuming he'll be killed at night which is super ridiculous. Scum aren't going to shoot at a claimed VT who has heavy suspicion on him. That explanation doesn't hold water. He's making excuses and it's scummy.

So far, this post and others like it, will help me a lot figuring out Jazzmyn. But I do like the train of though so far.

[davesaz]

Time for a quick dropby before I take out the trash. SW, I was annoyed at being portrayed to a replacement as doing less than someone with 5 posts. That was a blatant mis-statement of my activity. Yes, I got annoyed by that. Your observation that I'm less active than some other games is true, but it is missing part of the background info. I'm a logic player who adapts my play to the specific game. Lack of logic-oriented material throws me. I need inconsistencies to generate solid scum reads. I probably need to lower my standards a bit and jump in on smaller logic gaps, because I had scum nailed 2 days earlier than their actual lynch in a recent game based on something being illogical.

[SilverWolf]

OK dave, that was pisskop's comment to you about Cheetory's content exceeding your own. OK, do you think it was scummy of pisskop to do that? You say you are a logic based player which is fine. I've done stupid, illogical things as scum before so I get that's a good way to catch scum. Is anyone catching your eye by being illogical so far?

[Quaroath]

@BlockyMan, Mahonster... ya'll ain't moved votes since RVS... surely there is something else to go on for you ... are your votes where you think they should be at this point in the game. If not, who, and if so.. why?

@Shiro - you fall into this too pretty much, as all you did was unvote your RVS on Zakk when the wagon built. Same question to you.

Also, @silverwolf... I've seen it in a couple games - heck it's even codified into an open - C9++ can have a full vig and a 1 shot. (Or even two full vigs and a 1 shot)

Hi Quaroth, why did you ask these questions here?

Because I prefer people to put their votes down, as it is unambiguous as to who they suspect, and scum tend to not like placing votes for that reason - it leaves trails. You don't have a problem with people not taking off RVS votes once the game is well outside of RVS and avoiding stepping on toes/taking a stance on the records?

Why do you want to know why I asked these questions?

[zakk]

But I

think

I know what he's hinting at.

What did you think I was hinting at?

Nope

Nope, what? You're not going to tell me?

[zakk]

But I

think

I know what he's hinting at.

What did you think I was hinting at?

How about you just fucking tell us and stop being fucking useless?

K?

Are you scum?

[Quaroath]

Grimmjow – This guy is just … 5 posts all game, and hasn’t posted since the 25th. The slot smells, regardless of who replaces simply because he coasted.)

Cheetory6 (Benefit of the doubt replacement the silent block. - I like the engagement so far.)

Why was it okay for blocky to coast and not grimmjow? Why are you giving my slot the botd and not his?

Fixed that quote for ya. This is horseshit. You were already in the game and active/hunting. That's why I have your slot weak town. Grimmjow didn't try and hadn't been replaced. Slots that lurk smell until the person in the slot behaves otherwise. Jazzmyn might change my mind, might not.

High, does Quaroth's 280 and 302 seem forced, unconnected to a train of thought or the solving of the game, and safe?

You are really annoying me with this bullshit. You ask people for their thoughts all game, and I do it twice, you pull it out of context and go fishing on me?

Also, one DIRECTLY followed the thought process in the other.

@pisskop - so beyond that crap, what's your deal with me? Are you upset I've read you as strong town, but won't tell you why?