*GAME OVER* Mini 1690 - Zed's Tavern! (Mafia Win!)

[Mahonster]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, this voting should be serious.

VOTE: SilverWolf
Because a werewolf can only be killed with silver, but he's made of silver so we're all screwed.

[Mahonster]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, this voting should be serious.

VOTE: SilverWolf
Because a werewolf can only be killed with silver, but he's made of silver so we're all screwed.

Your logic makes no logic.

Logic would dictate he is not scum, cause why be made of what kills you. .. You'd be unkillable and I feel safe assuming we should be able to kill the scum.

VOTE: mahonster

Omgus the logic is infallible. If Silver is scum but invincible, then when we lynch him he will hang like a brick! Because he is made of what kills him, stabbing with what kills him will no longer have an effect.

More simply worded: gg

UNVOTE: SilverWolf
VOTE: Quaroath

[Mahonster]

My vote and everything I've said this game was entirely RVS and not meant to be taken seriously. If it's now time, let's get serious.

[Mahonster]

<FAKE INTENT TO HAMMER>

[Mahonster]

I don't really have enough to go on to start basing my reads yet. Just as a note though, if zakk's reaction was intentional and his scum buddies were in on it - that seems almost too elaborate for this early. I think most of the voting just comes from a bandwagon, but there's no doubt scum joined in seeing the opportunity.

[Mahonster]

Honestly Chevre that is a super aggressive and flamboyant play style, hopping on every train in sight. Naturally that appears scum-motivated, but truthfully I don't think scum would put themselves that far out there..

[Mahonster]

Honestly Chevre that is a super aggressive and flamboyant play style, hopping on every train in sight. Naturally that appears scum-motivated, but truthfully I don't think scum would put themselves that far out there..

What about the rest of his play besides wagon hopping? What do you think of his interaction with me?

Does anyone else have an opinion on that? It's been a major part of the game so far besides zakk's wagon but so far only Dave and pisskop have given an opinion on it when everyone gave an opinion on the wagon on zakk. Makes me wonder why.

Chevre has the mark of a lawyer in my eyes - that is manipulating the way the actions of others are seen in attempts to make them look bad. However his claims aren't completely unfounded and I can see the logic behind them (like I'm supposed to I suppose). He mentioned absolutes before, and I think that is exactly the way he views people as scum, looking for specific behavioral indications that are indeed absolute.

I view his interaction with you as a clash between two different ideals of play. I don't view either ideal as sure scum yet, but as the game goes on I'll be sure to take notes.

[Mahonster]

Information? I thought it was obvious that I felt nothing was gained since shiro immediately pointed out that it wasn't a hammer and unvoted. I was rather vocal about it at the time. And I don't really think it was alignment indicative of shiro.

I tend to agree that the speed of your wagon doesn't really make your likelihood of being scum high even if pisskop would bus his partners to do that. So unless pisskop ends up getting killed and flips scum, you are probably safe as town, despite your poor play (imho).

The better reads come from those who rushed your wagon. Hence why I followed up with questions on the people who rushed you to L1. And why I'm voting for chevre who've found yummiest from the wagon.

I absolutely love this post it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Dragon's recent actions and explanations lean far town for me.

Good point-Mahonster,

was that a serious vote

or

are you trying to keep us in RVS?

I see we have all come to the conclusion that there are multiple reasons for Mahonster's vote. But the initial question posed by SilverWolf presents it as an either/or, with one positive option and one negative option. It is manipulative, and any way Mahonster answer paints him in a bad light. If it's a serious vote, Mahonster then has to explain his reasoning, and the lack of reasoning from the get-go is going to raise suspicion. Claiming the second, of course, looks negative as many players in this game would say blatantly keeping the game in RVS is not a town thing to do. And a middling answer feels non-commital and weak. SilverWolf's question trapped Mahonster in a situation to which there are no completely reasonable explanations or positive outcomes.

I think this is the best explanation of the situation that I've seen. Just to once again clarify my part though - it was completely RVS even if claiming that was intentionally spun to make me look bad. When I first came back and read Silver's question towards me I did feel misrepresented, though that is still partially my fault because honestly I wasn't even aware RVS was ended.

[Mahonster]

My vote is still RVS because my reads suck this game. I'll take more time and more notes and maybe go over the thread soon.
UNVOTE: Quaroath

[Mahonster]

>Manhouser

[Mahonster]

Claims are good? Only if the claimer was looking very suspicious and questionable. Otherwise claiming a PR results in scum knowing who to hunt.

[Mahonster]

Read minds, I'd be the absolute best player at this game.

[Mahonster]

Gambit? Maybe. Can there be a Town RB in the setup?

Also that was a damn good SK flip, hopefully it clears any alignment people saw with me and Chevre.

[Mahonster]

Yeah I don't expect anyone to townread me much based on yesterday. As I've been saying the whole game - my reads are off, but I realized that this is just because I have 0 scum reads. Rest assured, the moment I do I will jump on that like British and their tea.

[Mahonster]

Yeah I don't expect anyone to townread me much based on yesterday. As I've been saying the whole game - my reads are off, but I realized that this is just because I have 0 scum reads. Rest assured, the moment I do I will jump on that like British and their tea.

You must have some other reads at this point. Share any that you have. I can't get a read on you if you only post things like this and that's pretty much what your ISO consists of right now.

Do more or I can start pushing for your lynch. You decide.

Ooh well now I feel threatened and better start working on my scum hiding game. /s

I'll have reads when I have reads. I'm not going to start fucking making them up for the sake of dodging the people questioning my no reads.

That Billi chart seemed like a very town oriented thing, I like statistics and presentable information because it lets you analyze things in a way that makes sense.
Given that, I also have a town read on dragon like everybody else seems to here. One thing I would like to have explained and discussed a little more is this:

You said either Aero or I were scum. Reading between the lines, I can conclude that Aero is scum. Im sure I could drag out weak reasons to suppliment that, but . . .

I said I think that to be true. Not sure what lines there are.

Ill tell you why. Someone tried to kill me last night. ozgin told me. I think it would have had to be someone familiar with me since my focus yesterday was mostly chevre. I haven't been playing as a threat to anyone alive.

But other than this suspicion I don't see what I would have been implying.

Seems like this statement was mostly ignored and I don't know why. What thoughts do other people have on it?

[Mahonster]

I too, am for non-discussion of setup. At least for right now.

[Mahonster]

When there is something to post about, you may see more. Until then, why the fuck should I care?

Too angry and pissed off for an easy defense imho. Smells like a scum reaction trying to be a "not caring townie" reaction.

VOTE: davesaz

[Mahonster]

@Quaroath I'm honored you place me as top scum, but I'm going to disappoint you pretty damn hard.


You said I had a terrible day 1, can you expand on that? And how does me defending non-alignment mean scum and not just pointing out innocence?
What are your opinions on my dealings and reads on Chevre? Did you read my 265? If I recall I didn't just follow everybody else on calling dragon town.

And am I really trying "way too hard" to stay out of people's way? Can you talk about this? Do you feel this way for other out of the way people like Shiro? Not giving away my reads right now because I want to wait before I make a case. If I make a weak one now, they may correct themselves of any flaws and continue on hiding better.

[Mahonster]

VOTE: mah

To motivate a response.

What are your thoughts?

[Mahonster]

I'm thinking I don't see why naming suspects is going to make them change their ways.

Ok yeah honestly it kind of is a faulty view point considering everything.

It's too late for me to be able to put together a half decent explanation for my placements, but I'll just throw this out there and wait for a discussion with Quaroath.

My current

Dream Scum Team vol 1

Quaroath
Dave
Shiro

I'm either very right or very wrong.

[Mahonster]

Alright, bitches. 4 votes on me better lay some knowledge down for you.

[Mahonster]

Let's start off with

Quaroath

.

Quaroath hasn't done anything that pings me as town. ISO includes minimal one liners, with the most notable thing being his vote against Grimm. Why is that notable? I don't think Grimm is scum so it puts a partnership between the two at a more unlikely state. Now the thing that really ticked me off was 639, specifically the read placement. Top 3 town reads are pretty understandable, everyone loves dragon, Silver's good, pisskop is a little interesting but alright. Great. Next 3 reads as weak town Billi zakk and cheetory, also pretty alright. Everything after that ticks me off though.

Here's his placements and why I don't like them:

• -Null Shiro: Perfect fucking team placement, not to friendly for suspicion, not to foe.
  -Null Dave: Same thing. Maybe it's just me but both of these null placements have some pretty sus stuff going on.
  -Scum Aero: No. Please tell me more about why you think Aero is scum I'm curious on this one.
  -Scum Grimm: As I said earlier I think Grimm is town, and that a partnership between these two is unlikely. And Grimm is a very easy target for Quaroath.
  -Scum Mahonster: Just great yeah I love this read. It really feels like your grasping at everything you can in order to throw me into sus here, which normally that's cool. But I know I'm not scum, so chances are it will be scum that come after me right?

Dave

Hate the playstyle. Freaked out over the most basic shit and to quote Quaroath "Also, ragey". That's a side note from Quaroath isn't it. Maybe I'm wrong but this slot has tries to have the appearance of being good but falls short from true town. Specifically the lack of real involvement, decent side questions but feels non-involved. Honestly this is the least scum read of my scum reads, but note Quaroath's null placement. It's great for scum to put buddies at null or weak town.

Shiro

Side mentioned on Quaroath's reads. Shiro is very calm and appears plain bad to me. 1 vote for RVS page one and then no votes after that. Stayed out of the hammer stayed out of any wagons. Maybe it's just the way Shiro plays but I don't like it.

Alright, bitches. 4 votes on me better lay some knowledge down for you.

I'm totes cool with lynching this today.

I would not be that stupid if I was scum. Ask me some meaningful questions.

[Mahonster]

"Scumble asks accuser multiple questions instead of doing real stuff" cliche. +1 sin

Lol,

ding

Apparently everything I have done this game is a scum cliche. Beginning to see Quaroath's read now.

[Mahonster]

I didn't think Grimm's slot was town because that's far too little caring for a scum game right? Aero why is my post interesting if I flip scum?

[Mahonster]

I didn't think Grimm's slot was town because that's far too little caring for a scum game right? Aero why is my post interesting if I flip scum?

WELL IF I TOLD YOU THEN IT WOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE NOW WOULD IT

Why does it have to be a surprise? We're all friends here

[Mahonster]

Shoot, Mahonster has no completed games to meta.

Grrrrrr.........................

[Mahonster]

^lol gg

[Mahonster]

Grimmjow – This guy is just … 5 posts all game, and hasn’t posted since the 25th. The slot smells, regardless of who replaces simply because he coasted.)

Cheetory6 (Benefit of the doubt replacement the silent block. - I like the engagement so far.)

Why was it okay for blocky to coast and not grimmjow? Why are you giving my slot the botd and not his?

Fixed that quote for ya. This is horseshit. You were already in the game and active/hunting. That's why I have your slot weak town. Grimmjow didn't try and hadn't been replaced. Slots that lurk smell until the person in the slot behaves otherwise. Jazzmyn might change my mind, might not.

I do not agree with this view, Both Blocky and Grimm were relatively silent, but you're calling Blocky's rep ok while doing the opposite "no matter what" for Grimm.

Why are you saying this is the one I should have?

I'm saying that's what the phrasing there looks like.
Like, to me it looked like you were trying to set up holding grimm's inactivity against the jazz slot regardless of what they did and it feels like you didn't really do that with me, so I was just kind of scratching my head wrt why it seemed like you were approaching reading us differently.

Is this at me? You should re-ISO him again.

Zzzzzzzzzz. k.

I'm make this easier. Pisskop is town.

Also Dave, find another target.

Now.

Why is Piss town to you?
Why are you demanding Dave find another target?

VOTE: Quaroath

[Mahonster]

You called Blocky's replacement ok. Benefit of the doubt because there was a replacement.

[Mahonster]

Why is Piss town to you?
Why are you demanding Dave find another target?

Why is Piss town to me, probably the same reason he is to SW.
If you can't figure it out from the statement right there ^ I can hold your hand.

By all means, hold my hand here if it makes you happy.

No. Do better than yell. Why is Pisskop town to you?

[Mahonster]

Why is Piss town to you?
Why are you demanding Dave find another target?

Why is Piss town to me, probably the same reason he is to SW.
If you can't figure it out from the statement right there ^ I can hold your hand.

By all means, hold my hand here if it makes you happy.

No. Do better than yell. Why is Pisskop town to you?

I refer you to this post 691 for any comment I'm going to make about why I believe Pisskop to be town. I'm not going to go deeper into it.

I told Dave to find another target because he's going after someone who's town. So he's either wasting his time, or scum.

Why are you so interested in buddying dave all of a sudden?

Ok, yeah that's cool. Just give me a broken link to a post that basically just says "He's town but I won't specify why right now" lol. If you're telling us not to vote somebody, you better have some good reasons, I'll be coming back to this later.

I'm not buddying dave he's still top 3 scum.

[Mahonster]

As mentioned previously, I have Mahon up next because my read on him was leaning scum.

- Mahon’s fourth post of the game came when the Zakk wagon got to L-1 and he posted “FAKE INTENT TO HAMMER” (in all caps, bold, and italics). In the circumstances that existed at the time, I don't see any town motivation for such a post. Rather, it looks to me like a warning signal to a scum buddy to tip him off, and one that held little risk at the time, because it could easily be explained away if successful. Given that the 'fake hammer' by Dragon was, in my view, not a bad thing to try since it

could

have resulted in a scum slip if Zakk is scum, I just cannot think of any town motivation for attempting to thwart that effort.

That statement was a joke. I didn't even realize that Zakk was in fact at L-2, and I thought it was ridiculous to lynch that early, so I made a joke. I had no intention to thwart because I was unaware any thwarting was even possible.

- He defended Chev repeatedly (207, 233) saying that “honestly” Chev is a “super aggressive and flamboyant play style” which “naturally appears scum-motivated” but “truthfully” he doesn’t think Chev-scum would put himself that far out there”, and saying that Chev was "trying to manipulate the way that actions of others are seen in order to make them look bad" but then he goes on to say he does NOT view it as scummy. I do not understand how Mahon could view Chev as deliberately attempting to manipulate players in order to make them view others as scummy while simultaneously reading Chev as town. And the repetition of "honestly", "naturally", and "truthfully" in a single post sets my scumdar on edge. I very, very rarely feel the need to use any such modifiers when I am telling the truth, and I certainly never feel the need to use three of them in a single post (207). *Full disclosure: this is a bit of a personal bugaboo of mine and I realize that others may not be bothered or troubled by repeated “honest! truthfully! scouts honour! etc, type stuff, but it bugs me.

- At the dawn of Day 2, Mahon’s post 472 says “Also, that was a damn good SK flip. Hopefully it clears any alignment people saw with me and Chevre” – this seems scummy to me because everyone knows that a SK doesn’t have ‘alignments’ with others, and I can’t imagine anyone but scum feeling a need to state that explicitly or to try to distance themself from a flipped SK. As I mentioned previously, I think that scum do have a motivation to keep a D1 suspected SK alive for a little while in order to help kill townies (when the risk of the SK hitting scum is relatively low). Later on Day 2, Mahon still has no scum reads (537) but assures us that once he does, he will jump right on them like Brits on tea.

I said that I was glad there was no alignment with me and Chevre anymore because somebody had called me out on a possible alignment for a lot of the same reasons that you state here, me pointing out bad things but not accusing him. As I stated, it was just because I didn't think that scum would actually be that aggressive. I was wrong, however relieved that Chevre didn't flip mafia or such so people wouldn't come after me. Risk of SK hitting scum wasn't that low. It was a 1/4 chance based on random guessing if a townie was lynched. No, I think the scum would be pretty ok with the SK being dead, makes for a much less dangerous game if they're good.

- Another hundred posts go by and then Mahon says (642) that he is “not giving away” his reads because he wants to “wait before he makes a case” and that if he makes a weak case now “they may correct themselves of any flaws and continue on hiding better”. This looks to me to be a poor excuse to avoid speaking up about suspected scum.

- At 645, he finally did set out some reads. He said his current ‘scum dream team’ is Qua, Dave, and Shiro, and says that he’s either very right or very wrong, but nothing beyond that – which is not helpful with nary a line of reasoning in sight.

Did you read my post on the next page?

This was what resulted in me leaning scum on Mahon at the time I posted my read on him on Sunday. I see that he has subsequently provided further content yesterday (after he got 4 votes on him) and it appears on first skim that his playstyle has changed since then, so I will have to see if that changes my view of him or not once I read through those few pages again.

Regards,
Jazz

Yeah my play style has changed, I'm slowly getting more involved and caring about the things I see in this game. As far as the "excuse" goes, I stated that "it was kind of a faulty viewpoint considering everything", and that I would point out my reads.

[Mahonster]

I don't agree that the claim is a good idea, but it is worth pointing out that dragon is essentially a VT now if he wasn't lying. But no pisskop, there's plenty of motivation for scum to get him mislynched. He's literally town to everyone.

[Mahonster]

I don't agree that the claim is a good idea, but it is worth pointing out that dragon is essentially a VT now if he wasn't lying. But no pisskop, there's plenty of motivation for scum to get him mislynched. He's literally town to everyone.

Hey, this is scum too folks.

How

[Mahonster]

I don't agree that the claim is a good idea, but it is worth pointing out that dragon is essentially a VT now if he wasn't lying. But no pisskop, there's plenty of motivation for scum to get him mislynched. He's literally town to everyone.

Hey, this is scum too folks.

How

You're repeating pisskop's line of BS.

And pointing out something that is probably true is scum motivated? It's not like I'm on his side.

[Mahonster]

Ok the entire gambit thing is a cool thought, but wouldn't there still be some other equally powerful town PRs? Surely that gambit would run into issues as soon as others claim.

[Mahonster]

Yeah no mislynches of me yet pls. I'm inclined to believe that dragon and pisskop are telling mostly the truth, so I would expect 3 scum left in 12 players. Take off the "town block" of PRs and Silver, and that's 9 left.

My stance is still that Quaroath is likely scum.

[Mahonster]

I don't like these statements by dave.

Why would a town rolestopper (provided that's even a thing here) target anyone before knowing who they should protect? If they mistakenly targeted scum, a town rolestopper would prevent cops and trackers from doing their job.

If SW has a role which got no result, that would be a role

block

, not a role

stop

.

Assumes RS would not target town reads. Which is funny if you think about it that both dragon and pisskop decided to target the same likely town player. But usually I don't think this would happen. To me this looks like a jab at pisskop to throw more suspicion on him, obviously a scum motivation if pisskop is RS.

Rolestopped.

But that means he protected me. Why would that make him scum?

Because I got a result on you. Which means he is lying about role stopping you

So your earlier claim was fake (pedit

incomplete

), and the new claim proves that pisskop's claim is fake?
Or pisskop's claim is true (meaning the kill was probably on SW) and your new claim is a desperate gambit.

Sounds like a coin flip, if we lynch them both we'll get at least one scum. I'm undecided on which one first.

Also assumes that one of them has to be scum. Maybe he just didn't realize? It's possible, but no. Let's assume dave is scum. He wants us to lynch one and then if that one flips town, lynch the other. Which would fucking suck if they were the town's only PRs.

Jazz I don't really know yet. Came after me with arguments I kind of found that I didn't like at all. If anything a null read for now.

[Mahonster]

VT.

So everything I do this game pisses people off, but please don't lynch me yet.

I promise you'll understand soon why some of my actions appear the way that they do for you guys.

None of you know me. I'm new to this forum. Don't let that influence your vote please.

If anything we still have 5 days until deadline, and we can afford a mislynch, but it makes the game that much harder for town.

[Mahonster]

Can Billi or somebody else explain this better to me?

Mahonsters iso posts from 759 to 808 are the ones that make me support his lynch.
First 2 that laugh about that he has no meta to read.
Then 4 where he tries hard to get an outing of pisskops PR softing.

So, I could put him at L-1 when it gets closer to deadline.

I said "lol" at Silver noticing I didn't have any meta. Is the laughing part scum or is the no meta part scum? Because I know people that say Meta means nothing anywat, so having none can't possibly indicate that I'm scum because the other game I'm in isn't completed for me.

And can the 2nd part about my 4 other posts be explained better? I want to be sure I understand this and why you think the motivation behind it was scum.

[Mahonster]

or at the very least your strongest scum read after everything that happened

My strongest s-read is still Quaroath. If I happen to get hammered today I would love to see him lynched.

Dave follows in second there.

Quaroath is in the perfect place right now for this lynch if scum, has had his vote on me for a long time and nobody will question that. He said he has "swingy reads" for the entire claiming of pisskop and dragon, and hasn't commented on it at all besides a "Omg this game is so crazy."

Intentionally lurking but not appearing lurking.

[Mahonster]

-mahonster's 1105 is him insinuating I'm lying scum with a cop inno from a person he says is telling the truth-the logic here is

Sorry I don't understand this line, could you expand on it?

[Mahonster]

-mahonster's 1105 is him insinuating I'm lying scum with a cop inno from a person he says is telling the truth-the logic here is

Sorry I don't understand this line, could you expand on it?

It looks like you were agreeing with Aero when he said there was at least one scum in the townbloc of myself, dragon, and pisskop and that at least one claim is false. You said you believed pisskop and dragon were being truthful. That would mean you think I'm scum which makes no sense if you think dragon is being truthful considered he got a town result on me when he copped me.

No, I thought you were town and still do think you were town. I was stating that you were included in the 3 player town block of 12 players, Silver | pisskop | dragon.

Can Billi or somebody else explain this better to me?

Mahonsters iso posts from 759 to 808 are the ones that make me support his lynch.
First 2 that laugh about that he has no meta to read.
Then 4 where he tries hard to get an outing of pisskops PR softing.

So, I could put him at L-1 when it gets closer to deadline.

I said "lol" at Silver noticing I didn't have any meta. Is the laughing part scum or is the no meta part scum? Because I know people that say Meta means nothing anywat, so having none can't possibly indicate that I'm scum because the other game I'm in isn't completed for me.

And can the 2nd part about my 4 other posts be explained better? I want to be sure I understand this and why you think the motivation behind it was scum.

The first 2 posts (of the 6) are no meta vs. lol. It rubs me the wrong way. "You can't read me!" kind of lol.

The latter 4 posts are repeated hammering of insisting that a claim is made on a player that 2 players have stated should not be revealed as it stands. Not town motivated.

Ohhhh ok yeah I see that view. But no, after Quaroath insisted that both he and Silver thought that pisskop was town for reasons unspecified, I backed off because I didn't want to out a PR. I went back through pisskop's ISO to look for it, but I suppose after he claimed it didn't even matter. My motivation behind questioning was not to out but to see if Quaroath had legitimate reasons for copying SW on the pisskop townread. Originally I didn't even know SW hadn't specified reasons, but I was just questioning Quaroath's own until he confirmed that he wasn't going to disclose the same as SilverWolf.

How soon can you deliver on this promise? I can't say I expect much. I'm extremely skeptical you can deliver. You're a vt. So its not like you are a pr trying to hide from the scum. I can't think of anything else that will explain jack.

Soon. Put me on a lynch list for now and then lynch me after.

[Mahonster]

Silver, I never agreed with Aero at all in that post, and I disagree with him for a lot of the things in this game.

[Mahonster]

Silver, I never agreed with Aero at all in that post, and I disagree with him for a lot of the things in this game.

Why is that? Is it because you think he's scum because you've never said that before?

What is your read on him?

I haven't said it before because it's not blatant.

He's more of a "check for scum later" slot for me.

Something really super interesting that I just noticed though that I think is super important:
Quaroath has only been mentioned by Aero ONCE. And that mention was a "I need to look more at Quaroath later" post (which he apparently didn't). No mentioning for the entire debate or comments on whether he thinks I'm scum v Quar (which at least used to be a popular thing)
And then there was this post many pages later:

Who the hell's qua

Which feels entirely forced to me. No way, I don't believe it. You would look at the playerlist if you didn't know who somebody was referencing on page 33 of the game.

If either Quaroath or Aero ever flip scum, I would look very closely at a relationship between the two.

Quaroath's last mention of Aero was practically his first, and he said he didn't think Aero was town. Aero was also on Quaroath's reads as "weak scum". This is a little different but still entirely possible for scum to point out their partners as weak scum in order to 1) distance any relationship and 2) not get them lynched or really suspected. Posts 639 and 675.

[Mahonster]

Ill be a little disappoint if it is as simple as Zakk/Mah

So it's probably not that simple right?

[Mahonster]

Scum: Mah, Dave, possibly you, possibly Jazz but idk yet. I'd say at least two scum is within that foursome. Billi, Pisskop, Silverwolf, DS are all likely town in my book. Shiro could be town.

I want the lynch the person I'm voting

These? They look o.k. to me. I don't agree with his scumread on you. You seem pretty town to me. The other scumreads and the townreads look o.k. to me.

Notice that these reads don't include either Quaroath or Shiro as any real placement.

[Mahonster]

Already on wagon and approve completely. I would put my entire little reputation on a bet that Quaroath is scum, so if he flips town then you can lynch me. Put that in your notes please.

God I hope he's scum. Anyway, no this is not my last ditch effort to get somebody else lynched before me. That's about the weakest gambit scum could think of. And because if I'm lynched today then Quaroath probably might be next. And also town can probably afford it if I'm scum.

I'm obviously making a big risk here for a VT, but I have nothing to lose and this will probably enable me to make good on that promise I made.

Aero what is your opinion on zakk's vote?

[Mahonster]

Lynch Quaroath after me. Write that the fuck down in your Google docs.

[Mahonster]

Also, does anybody want my final reads and opinions before I'm hammered? Or can Dave just go ahead?

[Mahonster]

Ok, so I just sat down and tried to write a good post convincing the town not to lynch me, but I realized that there's probably nothing I could do that would change anybody's mind at this point.

So instead, I'm going to tell you all what I think you should do

after I actually flip VT.

First, lynch Quaroath.

I don't care what bullshit misguiding reasons he comes up with, just lynch him. Dragon could potentially invest Quaroath to avoid another misguided mislynch by me here, but that's up to dragon. If Quaroath flips scum, go and look at everything he's done. I've posted in the past that I think he could be in partnership with Aero, so look at the relationship there. Notice that his reads on the last page are practically the same - potential partnerships are Aero Shiro Dave and (a little less likely) Jazzy.

I don't know why zakk buddied me, perhaps because we're both noobs or something. I think he's just lynch bait now. Scum (like Quaroath who wants zakk lynched more but is still voting me) will go for his slot tomorrow. It's still possible zakk could be scum and just defending me for when I flip VT, but doubt.

I'm assuming Quaroath is scum here for this next part.

Second, lynch Aero

. People are unsure here so better Just Do It (Nike product placement). I don't like Aero's play this game (notice how he's up for zakk's lynch), and I don't think that Cheetory is scum.

And next, I can't help you with that. Play the game carefully, listen to others minimally. Don't base your votes on the walls of text the scum write, make something for yourself and have your own opinions.

Final random notes:

• -If anybody ever suggests that the town block is indeed not town in a couple of days, lynch the shit out of them.
  -Shiro is in a really easy and nice place for my lynch right now, nobody questioned that.
  -Screw Quaroath. That last wall of text was a whole bunch of empty text, no content.
  -I don't like dave either. Put him somewhere on a check later list.
  -glhf please win town.

Oh, also. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

Jk, if you lynch me now you'll just never know what that promise I made was. The curiosity will kill all of the scum so I will win yes.

[Mahonster]

Who's hammer?

[Mahonster]

Oh my god that's awesome holy crap

[Mahonster]

I'm still with this.
VOTE: Quaroath

[Mahonster]

The Jazzmyn data points to Quaraoth, and I agree with the line of questioning from 1358
I'd also be interested in seeing what happens with a Shiro wagon. Surprisingly few reads on him from anyone.

Um. Okay. Where? Show me, bub. Maybe if you really stretch her vs Mah as incriminating me? I kinda can get that, but the flipside works the same - scum buss all the time. It could easily have been Jazz distancing from a buddy. This is total WIFOM territory.

She never even mentioned me (or half the game)

I'll do you one better...

I do not really understand the press on Dave; he looks town to me so far.

Regards,
Jazz

Pretty sure if anything Jazz points to you and Aero as scum. We know Aero isn't ... so.... VOTE: Dave


Also this:

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:
is Mafia-aligned
knows the identities of the Mafia team is

identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists

cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and is killed if shot
is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops
If you want a Traitor that gives an "innocent" result to Cops, make it an Investigation-Immune Traitor. Likewise, if you want one that cannot be killed by its team, make it a Bulletproof Traitor. These roles would return full names (e.g. Investigation-Immune Traitor to a Role Cop investigating them).

So I'm scum for unvoting Grimm, when if I was scum i couldn't know he was the traitor? Um.. That's stupid, and desperate to boot.

What.

What. No. If anything this post only confirms that Jazz knew who scum team was, so Jazz can be put up to every suspicion of relationship there is. And I don't even see how this last statement about Grimm even makes sense beyond that. Also, as far as Jazz bussing me, I think it's a lot more likely that scum would just "ignore" or not get involved with partners on D2 than later in the game, and since Jazz was a Traitor then she didn't want to piss off her unknowing scum buddies and get NKd. So fuck no it's you.

You didn't do anyone better.

Calling scum left Shiro and Quaroath

[Mahonster]

The subtle hint of Jazz going against me while you also were. Scum don't kill the thing that's for them.

[Mahonster]

I'm very erratic in my voting. I vote people just for annoying me. I'm pretty sure I also said that Grim's slot was pretty scummy. I don't care about where my vote trail lays. I dislike when people CARE about if they have a vote out there.

Oh god. Bad excuse is bad. This is scum saying "Haha jokes on you guys look how little I CARE that means I'm not scum!!!!".

[Mahonster]

I've kind of stalled here at he moment. Not sure what to ask and people are being quiet

lol to give the scum chance to lurk.

[Mahonster]

"Confirmed Town" can only lose if the next two days are mislynches, which considering there are 3 "suspects" I would say is pretty good odds.

dragonspawn - town
Aeronaut - conf town by dragon
Mahonster - That's me, glad Quaroath is dead.
Cheetory6 - Null
Billi bilaði - Possibly scum, no confirm despite town appearance
Shiro - Appears scum, possible lynch bait.

Dragon is your role not viable anymore?

[Mahonster]

As bad as it is I think Shiro is lynch bait, and that Cheetory is more likely to be scum than Billi.

[Mahonster]

I would go with Cheer and then Billi. We should also examine Jazz's reads a little closer to, seeing as we can't much for Quaroath because Griimm/Jazz didn't post a whole lot. However, with Jazz posting some I think it's more likely that known scum buddies would have more interaction than none.

Aero what are your thoughts?

[Mahonster]

*Cheet

[Mahonster]

Just completed my first scum game in case anybody wants to take a look at it, I'll be focusing on this game now.

/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=62173

[Mahonster]

Wow ok this is action packed.

If I had power over the rest of the lynchings this game, I would just do Billi then Cheet if Billi flips town.

So woo.

VOTE: Billi bilaði

[Mahonster]

If Aero is GF then I hate life

[Mahonster]

Dragon you just receive general alignment like "town" or "scum" right? Not specific role?

[Mahonster]

If Aero is GF then I hate life

I am not saying it is Aero just that there isa high chance we cannot trust the resault.

So far mafia has been really underpowered in comparison.

Not only did they have to worry about the sk but one of their member was a traitor and they didn't even know who it was. It just, the has to be a kicker.

Well the fact that there was a serial killer and 3 mafia made sense to me, but holy crap you're right. Just slightly though.

We need full claims from everybody who hasn't.

Aero, cheet, possibly dragon.

I don't think a goon or encryptor make sense, so GF is possible. Can everybody else give their thoughts on this?

Looking at reads though, Aero godfather doesn't line up very well. Jazz scumread him and he scumread both Quaroath and Jazz (although jazz unknowingly).

[Mahonster]

^My information on those reads was wrong. Quaroath and Jazz scumread him.

[Mahonster]

It's entirely possible that somebody other than Aero is godfather as well.

[Mahonster]

But also Enabler. Ugh.

[Mahonster]

Yeah the dave lynch was bad. Sure he had it coming, but that type of attitude didn't really seem like actual scum to me once he was about to be lynched.

[Mahonster]

Ok.

VOTE: Shiro

Mah and Billi are town, Dragon is town. That just leaves Cheetory and Shiro, but the way the shiro wagon was completely redirected to dave yesterday means that shiro is probably scum.

This actually makes some sense. Billi is town to me now because he's had a scum read on Quaroath the whole game.

Assuming Aero is not screw-all godfather, then yeah Shiro or Cheet. Quaroath had Weak town on Cheet and null on Shiro. Quaroath went for a dave lynch rather than Shiro.

Both Cheet & Shiro were null reads by Jazz. Null/wt is the perfect place from scum buddies perspective.

I can actually get on board with this.
VOTE: Shiro

[Mahonster]

This actually makes some sense.

:/

Quality response there.

Except it doesn't Mah and it is BS that you can't find it possible both yesterday's wagons being on town.

Regardless it seems my death will be inevitable with two votes and dragon's soon to come. Shitty situation cause I know I am town but w/e

Logically speaking best chances are scum is cheet. Not only his interaction with aero can be seen as town V scum but so does his interaction with pisskop after but my gut is telling me that aero is Godfather.

Billi I still think is town if not gg you deserve win.

Is it really BS? How is it not BS that you can't find it possible that one of them was scum?

These types of appeals make me think Shiro is town, but that really is just an appeal. Why aren't you voting Cheetory? From our perspective, does it make sense to lynch you then lynch Cheet?

[Mahonster]

He mostly just feels genuine and I don't really see scumhim going into setup spec and being like "Aero might be godfather!" at this point in the game rather than trying to get one of me or Billi lynched first.

Actually calling out Aero just throws more possibilities and makes me more unsure about lynching Shiro.

Also this could be knighting >.>

[Mahonster]

Who do you think is the scum?

[Mahonster]

You know it.
Going for the WKing so I can leave literally no options other than like Billi who I'm also semi-townreading and Aero who has a copclear on him.

Best case scenario of Shiro being lynched.

[Mahonster]

Are you normally that defeatist near endgame?

So you would be for lynching Aero then Shiro?

[Mahonster]

It actually wouldn't be super surprising to me if there was two scum left, seeing as town has some power this game, and one of scum was a traitor.

I like this idea a lot actually. 10/10 great plot twist.

I would still put a sensible amount of money on Shiro right now though.

[Mahonster]

Don't forget Roleblock was 3-shot.
Looking at that it seems likely that there is a Godfather to me, but the gf isn't guaranteed to be Aero.

[Mahonster]

Each of you is doing something that makes me think you are town. Stupid enabler.

Who are you referencing here? Cheet&Shiro?

Town would be so much better off if Shiro was lynched yesterday.

[Mahonster]

What would be the scum benefit of having a neighborhood with 1 town 1 scum?

[Mahonster]

Neighbors don't equal masons.

I am aware. But it isnt impossible to assume that the neighborhood in this game is 2 town

But like... That's why it's a neighborhood and not mason because we can't assume anything.

[Mahonster]

Oh my god this sucks so hard. Too many possibilities on something that feels like it should be known better.

So I don't think Aero is godfather.
Going by that, there is a 2/3 chance of randomly lynching correctly just between everybody else that's not conftown.
Not the worst odds, especially if we throw play analysis into it.

Why don't we go around in a circle and have everybody say who they think is the most lynchable scum, and then the person they would lynch if the first one flipped town?

[Mahonster]

Oh dang that was sudden, argh!

How viable is a no lynch?

[Mahonster]

cool game had fun

Billi you played a superb game, tbh I doubt anyone ever scum read you this whole game and even my vote on you was based on very thing assumptions and PoE based on them.

I didn't scum read Billi until your lynch. But I only put it in the neighborhood because I was afraid I would be killed if I mentioned Billi at all.
At that point I just said fuck it, and assumed that statistically and reasonably my neighborhood had to be both town, so I trusted Cheet.

I pondered a long, long time over the Mah kill. I put up all the situation for killing each player, but at the end of the night, I could not let both neighbors live.

Yeah, it was either me or dragon. Good choice really. I probably would have snowballed to accuse you the last day.
I was kind of hoping that my scum read of you in the neighborhood would have carried more weight, but nobody believed Cheet so sadface.

Also, the gambit Cheet wanted to do might have really screwed you had I actually lived that night. Props to Cheet for that idea.