Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[The Keeper]

To find myself in affiliation with the invocation against the supposed good of a benediction in contradistinction from malediction is a situation of much confusion.

One would hold The Legemeton while other holds The Book of Virtues, while I must wander on with The Idiots Guide to Telepathy.

I guess I must aim for the Marked and VOTE: Enchant

[The Keeper]

Hi guys I claim Benediction!
Any CC's?

You are bad at scumclaiming. Watch and learn.

I HAVE

GREEN

ROLE PM

Wait, is Benediction even scum? All I can see is that they are an informed minority, unless I'm missing something in the setup that doesn't necessarily mean they're a threat to town.

Benediction comes from a small ritual to grant Blessings upon us like Angels and such.

Blessings can be curses and curses can be blessings, its a matter of perspective.

3 of my hearts for the mighty Brimstone I feel is a worthy trade. To have a Revelation is possibly better but as the cost potentially of an early spike. Better hope you find The Red Key or even Blue. Personally I dont mind a run going for Revelation with a Planetarium.

[The Keeper]

i’m a manifestation of aversion.

And Yet here you stand...

[The Keeper]

It is public knowledge, read the setup post

Benediction and Malediction are different non town factions

The question is if they are threats to town. I played Devil's Advocate I suppose and suggested a possibility that Benediction, bearing a green role color and a name like that, might in fact not be antagonistic to town.

Devils Advocate, huh. Simply another way of saying "excuse me while I become an Anus."

Your pushes and questions are awful, Id take The Poop over what youve just tried to Flush.

[The Keeper]

Meanwhile, we have all pretty much ignored Abnegation claiming miller. Not sure what to make of it, except that claiming it right at the start is generally the right play. This is multiball though, and her claim could make either scum team suspect her of belonging to the other, potentially exposing her to nightkills. Leaving this alone for now.

You raise it simply to say to leave it?
Did you find The Book of the Dead? Or simply did you start with Death?

[The Keeper]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

[The Keeper]

Also you're all sat here asking the moderator questions when its clear all the answers are simply TMTRAINER.

We have the information we are going to receive. Now it is down to us what we do with it.

[The Keeper]

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

I think the whole point of this setup is that there's no "town" and "scum", because the uninformed majority is actually "neutral" in the struggle between good and evil (judging by the fact that we're colored Ike third parties and Benediction is colored like town).

I realized that later, yeah. Invocation is neutral, Malediction is evil, Benediction is good. The question then is... We can likely presume this is a fight between Malediction and Benediction, but then what about Invocation? We can probably assume that Malediction doesn't have the best interests for Invocation, Benediction is perhaps more in the air.
(A situation where this is literally a fight between Malediction and Benediction, and Invocation is literally just the third party with a survivor like win con in the end is amusing to me but I don't think that's the case, I assume there is in fact threats to Invocation based on our win con, we'd literally have already won if there aren't any threats.)

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the freedom to invoke both and maintain balance is crucial.

[The Keeper]

Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.

I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.

I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.

I'm going to suggest that regardless of alignment we likely shouldn't broadcast what we are unless we want to early Genesis and just put all the items and cards out for free perusal.

[The Keeper]

Also casting shade on an IC. Yes mod misdirection is possible, that doesn't allow outright lying I believe. Misdirection would be more like... well, saying Benediction is an informed minority but not mentioning if they are threats to Invocation, in the situation where Benediction is able to win with Invocation.

If you misdirect you lie.

[The Keeper]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Why must thou talk in riddles?

I have charons obel, given I'm dead and I have nothing better to do... I have a lot of time.

[The Keeper]

And with the mod V/LA as well. But yeah let's not speedrun this game, no one has actually outright scum claimed and we would really like to have the time to develop reads on other people as well.

And yet Enchant claimed green.

[The Keeper]

A thought appears to be locked inside the Top Secret Room. Fortunately I have bombs.

It is possible for someone to be multiple non town alignments.

[The Keeper]

Never.

And I said what I said.

It could well be that we have someone who carries Duality. Able to be both Angel and Devil - but never reveal such to the other.

[The Keeper]

Not quite as sus as you.
While I can't have red hearts, I've yet to even see anything vaguely considerable from you. So far you're a about as useful as a Broken Shovel.

[The Keeper]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Ehy @Keeper, wdym with the Marked paragraph? You don't lose damage on misses with Marked, you do with Dead Eye

Hot take, broken shovel is actually quite decent if you don't mind moving around a lot. It's like an High Priestess? card each floor

So it is, my bad.
Has been a while since I last played Isaac...

It is also one that targets you endlessly, and with low health, it's a hazard. It's only use is to stop the stomping.
A better comparison for usefulness would've been Libra, but that wouldn't have made the translation.

[The Keeper]

At least some are giving consideration to the implication of the action and inaction that has happened so far.

That I am appearing on Death's List is an amusement of mine.

[The Keeper]

A thought appears to be locked inside the Top Secret Room. Fortunately I have bombs.

It is possible for someone to be multiple non town alignments.

This is a singular though to just pop out. I'm pretty sure there exist a multifaction traitor in gim or perhaps abloaf, I'm too lazy to go check rn; but other than that, I don't think I've ever seen this concept. I take it that you do have a blue map of sort?

Never.

And I said what I said.

It could well be that we have someone who carries Duality. Able to be both Angel and Devil - but never reveal such to the other.

Sorry, but I just don't get what are you answering never to. Likely just a parsing problem, can you clarify please?

Something related to what their role might be.

Explain

If it's what I may glimpse, I'd prefer he doesn't explain actually.

Early on, it's easy to find such rooms without needing the maps, just a bomb and some intuition.
You already worked it out.

One Dollar...

[The Keeper]

If The Keeper says it's okay, I'll explain.

I'd rather you didn't. Until I have Lazarus' Rags or The Ankh, the less said the better. That two of you appear to have grabbed a Dream Catcher and had a sneaky peek at something from what I've said is a curious turn of events.

[The Keeper]

i was going to say i have no idea what y'all are implying and all this vague role discussion is really getting on my nerves, but i think i get it now. you can have an unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

If it helps, the Mask of Infamy will break eventually and you'll likely see which character I truly am.

[The Keeper]

I believe the devil has Goat Head, Deaths List and a devil bum.

Also fwiw pronouns discussion is always valid, as are your pronouns Faysel - no matter how complex your gender is.

- From someone whos gender changes as often as the Blue Candle gains charge.

[The Keeper]

In a game where the moderator can lie, and has already answered around the question...

Why are we trying to brute force this? All we will get is the Dead Sea Scrolls.
I'd imagine Benediction cannot claim. It would be contrary to their wincon as a knowing faction.

[The Keeper]

Its showmanship, and nothing more

[The Keeper]

VOTE: Hugir

[The Keeper]

VOTE: Hugir

But why?

[The Keeper]

My dissatisfaction at the lack of motion in this situation is significant.

There seem to be a large number of familiars in this game and all waiting for an Isaac. The day started so strong, I believe one of the wagons we have may be the correct one to run with.

[The Keeper]

No, not you. I meant the votes on Goldfish and Hugir, because wynaut.

I have my reasons.
Unlike most people here I treat each run as a new game and not a victory lap.

[The Keeper]

Yeah, if you're really a checker, on the contrary targeting us is just about the most completely useless thing you can do.

Your role is also a fuckton more useless now that you've claimed it since now you aren't getting roleblocked unless hell blazes up again, so you are so concerned about being useful, you shouldn't have claimed unprompted but I digress.

Also, while even mention that you have to consider checking us, if you then yourself says that it's a bad idea and aren't gonna do it? That's the same shit again like with the benediction thing, you put forth an hypotesis and then, as soon as you're poked a little, you retcon it away

^ffs, I had to slip at some point
~b

I expect this out of this head, not yours....do better lol.

I support the Ice wagon, though kinda do prefer Rauth, but definitely won't fight it.

And am disappointed that Keeper hasn't posted today from what I see

-Drew

Its easier to get some Black Powder and chant mt name three times.

I was busy yesterday. I gained a Deck of Cards and a Booster Pack - which had an $18 card in it.

[The Keeper]

Ice can you specifically tell me what made my iso worse than Keeper's at the time?

Hi I've been away, only come back now.
To answer your question: I didn't actually look at Keeper's ISO - I think I had either missed them or otherwise had had a light town read on them. Right now however they are null and scum by default.

Hah. I am amused.

[The Keeper]

Ice can you specifically tell me what made my iso worse than Keeper's at the time?

Hi I've been away, only come back now.
To answer your question: I didn't actually look at Keeper's ISO - I think I had either missed them or otherwise had had a light town read on them. Right now however they are null and scum by default.

Hah. I am amused.

Glad you are. Care to do anything to help me read you?

Not really.

[The Keeper]

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the

freedom to invoke both and maintain balance

is crucial.

Bolded is what I'm talking about.

Almost like for a dead body I've had some time to think on things...

Light flees from The Keeper; They are not a disciple of

Benediction

.

And perhaps this is a soft clear of sorts?

I am amused, bearly into The Dross and already I seem to be presented with a chance to Seraphim.

[The Keeper]

"Why are you not voting Kawaii?"

I guess I'm wondering - does anyone here have any familiarity with Kawaii? Is their tone their usual town tone? Is this too easy? What alignment is everyone else? I don't really have a feel for this game so I'm not really aching to flashwagon Kawaii right this very second. But the people on the wagon have points.

On an unrelated note today I found out that it's pronounced WAH-gon not WAY-gon and I'm so upset

Sittin on a wagon
Drinking from a flagon
Accosted by a paigon
Shoot em with my ray gun

Game-advancing content: Kawaii green, Keeper + Enchant red

I really want you to shed some light on why I'm red.

[The Keeper]

Given Money=Power, I should put my three dollar bill on the table.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[The Keeper]

Oh furtiiive... Just because youve got Camo Pants doesnt mean Im going to ignore you.

I want you to expand on your read.

[The Keeper]

Furtive is scum.

Locked in never recind.

Even after a blue flip.

[The Keeper]

"Why" idk I just ISOed him again and everything suddenly looks scummy, please help D: D:

Proof that I'm town:

This game means everything to me. I desperately want to catch both scumteams and prove that Invocation is the superior concept.

I believe Kawaii exposed himself by trying to save Rautherdir and that his posting after the wagon on him grew did not recognise it or attempt to defend himself from that wagon enough.

I have a useful, provable role that matches perfectly to an appropriate flavour name.

I have a few townreads and a scumpool.

This is all true.

#Winvocation

Say that again once I remove your bullhorn and soapbox...

Youve gone for political style statements. Nothing but hot air, no Soul and bound to be Forgotten.

[The Keeper]

upon Reflection I actually believe Flavor to be town.

Lets face it, two hammer happy humans have a habit of hammer havoc...

[The Keeper]

If not then i'm liable to be misled or need an Ankh.

[The Keeper]

I still feel furtive is the the option for progression here..

VOTE: furtive

[The Keeper]

I disagree.

[The Keeper]

Well this is just as amusing as pulling both brimstones from Chaos.

Enchant was scum targetted, furtive is essentially claiming that it was town, and both are going for lil ol me.

cute <3 Sadly you're both wrong, I'm not an option, unless you're scum.

[The Keeper]

UNVOTE: furtiveglance

Something i rarely do. You are my greatest suspicion, and I will not speak more of my role than I already have.

Why did you perform that action, furtive?

[The Keeper]

And I would certainly want your claim now, having damned our investigative.

[The Keeper]

I feel like I just got trolled by a sacrifice room...

care to expand more, furtive?

[The Keeper]

@Moderator, I will have limited access thursday through sunday, returning monday.

[The Keeper]

Fuck this.


I am Relation, basically parity cop of variant where i check relationship with previous target. My targets are:
N1: IceDragon. Nothing.
N2: Aisa. Shares alignment with IceDragon.

Furtive just loverised me with self for fucking no reason so my chances to survive next night nosedived anyway.

Wow! Thanks for clearing me but like why are you claiming???

EBWOP

You either failed to understand the claim or are actually trolling me.
You are not clear.

[The Keeper]

I stand by Furtive being today's better option

[The Keeper]

dropping the keeper schtick for a moment I am exausted. I didn't get back home last night like I planned to, turns out the trains don't run as late as they used to.

I have seen some claims and the notifs, yes I am Affiliation. This wasn't really the best time for me to get this kinda role ngl xD but ya know, that's what I get. I'll be doing a read up tomorrow. D1 I targetted Feysal iirc, which failed obviously as they're not also Affiliation.

anyway, will be back to making bad Isaac references tomorrow <3

[The Keeper]

Also I believe from information the moderator has provided in the opening post of the Affiliation Vacuum that I am in a masonry.

So going for the mason is not a good idea.

[The Keeper]

actually i've got 6 hours, nuts. ok.

[The Keeper]

While I admit I've been absent - being in a field for a long weekend running around with a R U A WIZARD tends to take up all your focus, especially when you're mobile only and have to make your battery last 4 days and your Battery Pack seems weirdly underpowered... there's no excuses for misgendering me. It has my pronouns available in many places.

https://my.pronouns.page/are/they/them

[The Keeper]

Important thing I said you've overlooked, I said I believe.

There is a chance of moderator lies and I said as much when Fl replaced in that due to the bastard nature of the game, it may not be.

[The Keeper]

FL would confirm that I believe, but I don't believe he'll be here before the end of day.

That said, furtive, you are. and you are still someone I believe to be scum. You've done little else in the glimpses I've seen to convince me otherwise too.

[The Keeper]

Amusingly that "into the masonry" post was towards Ice. Before FL replaced in and yes, I treated it as a psuedomasonry. I stand by that stance, I would find it incredibly odd if in such a setup some essentialy scum power was wasted into some neighbourhood, but two roles that specifically have to find each other to gain the neighbourhood, thats considerably impressive.

Upon replacement FL asked if we were masons, if I could be trusted and not have my role worried about. My immediate answer was the game is bastard, the PM implies town but others could be an option.

Theorycrafting is wonderful. And still more than your contributions.

[The Keeper]

Now, mechanically you always leave Libra behind because it messes with your stats, in this particular case, Abgenon needs to be resolved. The miller cannot be cleared, and needs to be removed before ELO.

I understand as much as it frustrates me that the seed I'm on is B453M3N7 given my 4 days in a field and absent from game is warranted of suspicion on me, as well as condemned scum attempting to slam me for simple philosophy from someone who gets far too bored and considers these things a point of amusement. Also a small misunderstanding on the clearances of people from the investigations performed.

Hugir's contemplations and emotional drops seem to be an attempt to save themselves while aiming for pity and an attempt at incrimination. That said after the onslaught of misgendering I've witnessed I'll confess I have additional bias here in wanting to see the slot gone, my Twisted Spoons have also been depleted so I need to be cautious there.

[The Keeper]

Between the appearance of devil and angel, I should have enough coins to ensure a good deal here.

VOTE: Abnegation

[The Keeper]

mb on misgendering

With that said, you need the miller “resolved” when today is basically the ELo?

Did I miss a confirmation on the game setup?

[The Keeper]

My pm is identical to the example provided to both of us in the hood, essentially.

I suspect the game may be 2/2/1 personally but 2/2 seems more likely.

I did have a Revelation about something but i would need to reread once ive woken up.

If the scum have told the truth, today is a slam dunk.

[The Keeper]

Furtive absolutely needs to explain what's happening here, but is unlikely my target for now

[The Keeper]

I have been largely unwell for the last couple days, this here is a promise to dedicate some time later today (its just last midnight here) to diffusing some of this with my mechanical magnificance, speculative sparkle and illustrious insight.

[The Keeper]

I am further delayed by a seriously stressful life event that has required me to navigate emergancy care. I will endeavour to fulfill my promise tonight, still. Though it maybe late.

There is an Issac item reference and I can make... But its not a joking matter kind of situation.

[The Keeper]

(Mod actually confirmed it to me that the problem was indeed between my role and AD’s role)

Frankly this sounds compromising.

[The Keeper]

I am unable to focus on the reading, and i need to do self care. Hugir is certainly interesting...

[The Keeper]

=========
I’m making a separate section here just so I can display this gem.

My dissatisfaction at the lack of motion in this situation is significant.

There seem to be a large number of familiars in this game and all waiting for an Isaac. The day started so strong, I believe one of the wagons we have may be the correct one to run with.

The wagons at this point were either ID or me. They said this… while voting me!

=========

I fail to see what shines or sparkles so much in this post?
I stand by my vote there, and I stand by it now.

[The Keeper]

Enchant did claim to have been loverized.

But that seems like a scum role to me, tbh. So beneficial as scum.

See this is a curiousity akin to a crystal key.
Did you know you're a 1-way lover, furtive? Because Im sure theres a 3p role that has something along the lines of "tag people, then die".

I don't think we should dismiss everything ActionDan said as lies and WIFOM. Malediction can't kill Hugir, or anyone else really, for fear of having their kill reflected back at them - I think that much is true. So, they really need Hugir executed. Question is, was he bluffing, or did he truly believe Hugir was scum?

I'm thinking over the scenarios here. ActionDan should have expected both lovers to die. There would only have been two town and one scum from each faction left. Town could only have voted for no execution, so what ActionDan said would have made no difference.

Sometimes the best lie is the truth. I plan to go over what our flipped foes have said and see what can be used.

I'm still amused they tried to paint me red because I said something which is in their role PM, but is a base philosphy when you're a werido AuDHD who regularly falls into holes.

Flavor Leaf is consistently 'leaning' me against all logic, this is surely a scum trajectory

Fun thing about humans and logic... we're always going to be flawed in it. Especially in a game like this.
If I follow my logic currently, Hugir and Feysel are scum.
I strongly believe Feysel is town here.
Therefore I would surmise my logic is incorrect, and frankly the bugs in my belly are better than my logic some days.

I'm making a purely mechanical point, that for me to be scum in Hugir's world, I would have to specifically be a Roleblocker, which is very unlikely probability-wise. I should be soft clear. And yet both of you are doing mental gymnastics to try and implicate me.

Laughable. also I need to go do a democracy and my clipoard is being used dangerously so you have this for now.

[The Keeper]

Of course Im still alive.

Like I said, mason.

Annoyingly my investment in this game wasnt as much as it should have been but brains be like.

[The Keeper]

Annoyingly its red were looking for here, not green so I can claim my innocence that way.

Diversion and deviation are basically identical.

I know confirmstion doesnt match furtives claim, but I have a feeling Im ditching your claims here. There is a mirror of sorts here

[The Keeper]

Because my gut is good.

Sure its full of spiders and flies but still...

Do me a favour though and look at it mechancially. Come back when you have.

[The Keeper]

Keep going... Because rn youre my sus for The Lamb.

[The Keeper]

Feysal also needs to turn up and be convincing because the lack of them isnt exactly convincing me theyre Isaac

[The Keeper]

Because at the time, I could have been green...

Every ability the scum have had, have had a counterpart

Affiliation is blue
No green or red affiliation flipped.

Tell me sweet glance, what counterpart would I be?

Why do you live when loverised with Enchant is my question.

[The Keeper]

Huh that was feysal, it matters to you both anyway.

[The Keeper]

... im not well myself again - it was furtive(whoo burnout) but the points stand to you both.

One of us is proven a liar, and it isnt me.

[The Keeper]

I know you said that.

Thats not the impression you gave.

Explain to me how hiding behind someone is town? As thats what your role reads as to me.

[The Keeper]

What are the names of your roles?

Im struggling to find them... Ive given i have Affiliation

[The Keeper]

So left remaining we have captivation, affiliation and propagation.

Propagation would give confirmation.
Captivation I cannot see as a town ability.
Affiliation is confirmed by affiliation and could likewise fit the spot, admittedly.

[The Keeper]

I smell The Poop on you furtive.

lack of thought? Other than the fact I'm dead, the spiders and flies are working overtime.
Persistant agenda? You mean because you're the only other person who's actively here so I'm grilling you?

[The Keeper]

Meanwihle you're fencing so dang hard on it being me...

[The Keeper]

Malediction and Benediction are symmetrical in nature of factional abilities; Those include a conditional factional kill and a factional conditional publishing cop. They are both rather simple. Our kills only work on town not on each other. Our cop is published only if we get a negative result, if positive it is privately relayed to us. Our team used it N1 on Keeper opted not to use it N2 and used it N3 on Hugir (who at that point was obviously green to me anyway).

Confirmation, Diversion
Deviation

Affiliation, Captivation, Propagation.
One of us three plugs into that.

Affiliation would not, we can see the affiliation PM. Though it provides some confirmation. If you're coming at me tell me how I fit into the question?
Propagation, looking back at the PM... actually... hmmm...
Captivation would also fit from an alliteration perspective and alliteration is fun.


Confirmation - Check if your action was successful.
Propagation - Others confirm your action was successful.

Affiliation works with Affiliation to become affiliates. The only person who can confirm the action of affiliation is affiliation, I have no mirror that isn't town. We also lost the ability when we found each other.

Captivation can only be confirmed by the target, and they can keep quiet. But you get a PT with them.

Feysal your absence is notable, I wish for your input on my musings. Furtive for what its worth, your input too.

[The Keeper]

Like I said before, your role being a scum one could fit the 'mod misdirection' we were warned about. I'm interested in what you think that notice was in reference to.

Which notice?

And yes it could, as could yours given what was claimed by you and executed.
Thing is I read between the lines and used my gut to determine the masonry, it doesn't confirm anyones alignment. Me and FL were never confirmed to each other and the thread was generally ignored.

[The Keeper]

I feel like this F3 is really difficult. I hope spec chat isn't yelling about how obvious it is

Spec chat is yelling to give me the Game Over. I'd bet my Dollar on it.

[The Keeper]

VOTE: furtive

A cross vote it is, just as I'm getting around to grilling feysal