Mini 1563 - Vampire: The Masquerade Mafia (Fourth Evening)


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Post Post #475 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:52 am

Post by displaced »

d3x wrote:
In post 412, displaced wrote:
In post 411, Kthxbye wrote:What has you reading Spy as Null+?
His initial push on Aronis
What specifically about his push has you TownLeaning on him?
In post 26, Aronis wrote:Since I am getting voted and flavor claims aren't that important(?).

I am Sasha Vykos, Tzimisce, 6th Generation.
In post 61, SpyreX wrote: However, I really don't want to lose sight of Aronis. I think we're getting too far afield already.

Look at your PM. Look at the wincon.

Then look at those two posts. We got a live one that flavor fucked themselves.
In post 227, GreyICE wrote:
In the deep gloom voices are raised. A din of shouting, and then you see it. A single spark...
fire!
The fear races through your body like a lighning bolt. In the jet you can see a face. A target, briefly. And then the fire washes over him and consumes him, reducing him to ashes. And then it fades.


D3X
has reduced
MonkeyMan576
to ash. He was
Arnold, Gangrel, 11th Generation
and aligned with the
Vampires
d3x wrote:
In post 426, displaced wrote:
In post 424, ArcAngel9 wrote: D3x already rushed into monkeys Vig.
Yeah I agree with this :lol:
If you mean that I wish I'd saved it for a certain replacement, I also agree.


:wink:
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Post Post #476 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:57 am

Post by vonflare »

The above post is relevant how?

What are you trying to point out?

Could you explain please?
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Post Post #477 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:06 am

Post by Kagami »

In post 461, mnemonicdevice wrote: Here is my claim, which you probably won't like: Town, with two different powers. I can appear human without using vitae, and the other one I don't want to post until after night one, but will if forced.
You are forced. Flavor claim too.
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Post Post #478 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:36 am

Post by Kthxbye »

I will get to this game when I have more time. It will certainly be before deadline....likely tomorrow as it's the start of my weekend.
If you think I'm scum D1, bet all your money I'm town.
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Post Post #479 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:43 am

Post by Kthxbye »

Ftr though, nothing has made me think MD is any shade of town.
If you think I'm scum D1, bet all your money I'm town.
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Post Post #480 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:08 pm

Post by Kagami »

I'm just wondering how this claim makes sense as either alignment.

If scum, why claim to be able to investigate as something non-town? Shouldn't this strike scum!MD as a phenomenally terrible claim? Surely scum would be given non-ridiculous fake-claims, no?

If town, why would one be able to elect to investigate as something that is non-town? Also makes no sense. Also, why wouldn't such a player be
extremely
suspicious of SG's claim?


I'm left with one of the following conclusions:

1) MD is really terrible town who was given a completely stupid role.
2) MD is terrible town and there is some special human in the setup that is important for town to keep alive. Scum have the ability to find him somehow, so players exist to foil their investigations
3) MD is really terrible scum and invented an idiotic fake-claim.
4) MD is terrible scum we're in multiball (vampire vs human vs ghoul). There are separate town players who can investigate to find humans and ghouls specifically. MD is a ghoul with the ability to investigate as human, which would make sense since it can be used to foil investigations once the human-finder is gone. If this is so, it was still stupid to truthfully claim this ability.

4 seems most likely to me.
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Post Post #481 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:16 pm

Post by Squirrel Girl »

I want to hear him answer my question before I theorize too much. I agree with you that his claim, as stands, still equates to lynching him - so we need more claim.
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Post Post #482 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:58 pm

Post by vonflare »

The MULTIBALL scenario seems most likely?

Look at the opening flavour post.

reconsider.

And yes, mnemD please claim for real this time, not just one-quarter-of-a-claim.
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Post Post #483 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:49 pm

Post by mnemonicdevice »

Alright. Here is the rest of the claim.

My name is three-finger Joseph, I am catiff, and I am 14th generation.

If i choose not to spend any vitae during the day, I will appear human to all vampire senses.

I also can watch one vampire, and determine what powers were used on them.

I have a low number of vitae.

That a good enough claim.
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Post Post #484 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:59 pm

Post by Kagami »

Is English not your first language?

This is suddenly plausible, but only on the assumption that you have completely failed to understand this role.
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Post Post #485 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:11 pm

Post by Squirrel Girl »

In post 461, mnemonicdevice wrote:Town, with two different powers. I can appear human without using vitae, and the other one I don't want to post until after night one, but will if forced.
I'm not sure it's really a change from what he originally claimed though.

The only thing that bugs me is the language he used for his targeted effect. He said 'watch one vampire' when I would generally expect it to be 'watch one player/target' unless the power was a ghoul power, in which case it would make sense to target a vampire...though shouldn't you be able to use it on a ghoul buddy? Eh, I think I talked myself out of my issue even as I'm writing it.

Double potential Millers seems a little weird though...

13 players.
7 core clans
3 presumed ghoul scum
That leaves 3 extra...we've had a Vykos (!?) claim, and me...and now a Caitiff claim.

If all the claims are true something is a little wonky I feel.

Okay, I have a thought. I will clarify that my character name, like MN's is a made up character. To my mind that actually makes the Vykos claim feel a little out of wack since, well, Vykos is not a made up character. Would it be worthwhile to do up a list of other notable Kindred and just ask people to claim if they have one of the officially named Vampires? The drawback is we let the scum know, theoretically, a stronger player. The positive is, if there is another named character, then I tend to believe the Vykos claim more and disbelieve the double miller setup (which doesn't make a lot of sense, but his role is not out of sorts with what I might expect a role to look like)

I will admit this whole theory actually hinges on the question of fake claims being mod provided.
Does anyone have any mod meta on that point? If he provides fakeclaims I'd drop this whole conversation pretty much, but if he doesn't then I think it's worth it.
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Post Post #486 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:15 pm

Post by Squirrel Girl »

In post 483, mnemonicdevice wrote:to all vampire senses
As a point.

My situation of detecting as human (and I looked, I didn't say this in my claim) specifically uses the word senses. That makes me believe that this is more likely true unless Ghouls were alerted that they would detect as human to vampire senses. Which, I'll admit, seems unlikely unless it was part of a mod provided fakeclaim.
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Post Post #487 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:48 pm

Post by Kagami »

Meh, it's a plausible claim, and a plausible fake-claim.

His original wording of it was completely off the wall, and this wording still implies that he doesn't understand the point of the ability (which I presume to be that he can avoid the vitae decay the rest of us have in exchange for being a miller that night). Hard to believe that he wouldn't have thought that through if it were a real claim.

Most importantly, neither he nor his predecessor found SG's claim suspicious or even comment-worthy, and it's too strange that goodfather stated that it's "vampires vs ghouls" if his role PM implied a third group.

Scum has been caught. LLD caught the scum. LLD is very likely town. LLD wants diab. Let's get this over with.
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Post Post #488 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:08 pm

Post by CupcakePanda »

TOO MANY FUCKING MILLERS

THEY'RE NOT ALL TOWN

THAT IS ALL.
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Post Post #489 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:54 pm

Post by mnemonicdevice »

I will be vla until the 23rd
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Post Post #490 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:26 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

So MD is claiming to be a thin-blood. Honestly, I think it feels like a fake claaim that Grey would give the scum.

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Post Post #491 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:52 pm

Post by Squirrel Girl »

So you're saying Grey definitely gives fakeclaims?
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Post Post #492 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:01 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 491, Squirrel Girl wrote:So you're saying Grey definitely gives fakeclaims?
Yes. He's the kind of mod who will give the scum safeclaims.
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Post Post #493 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:09 pm

Post by Squirrel Girl »

I tried to look up some games of his, and mostly just found a bunch of Micros, an Open, and a weird mechanic one where it wasn't clear if they got fakeclaims...but it didn't look like there was really roles to fake regardless.

Where are you getting your info from? Could I get a link?
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Post Post #494 (ISO) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:12 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 493, Squirrel Girl wrote:I tried to look up some games of his, and mostly just found a bunch of Micros, an Open, and a weird mechanic one where it wasn't clear if they got fakeclaims...but it didn't look like there was really roles to fake regardless.

Where are you getting your info from? Could I get a link?
Grey and I have talked before about theme games and the importance of giving fakeclaims/safeclaims to scum.

Look for theme games, I didn't have a specific game in mind when I said this.
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Post Post #495 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:14 am

Post by Kagami »

In post 494, Lady Lambdadelta wrote: Grey and I have talked before about theme games and the importance of giving fakeclaims/safeclaims to scum.

Look for theme games, I didn't have a specific game in mind when I said this.
Spoiler: tangent
Fake flavor claims make sense in games where flavor is alignment indicative, but I think fake role-claims are rubbish. They're just another "extra" info for the scum about which roles are in the game that they really shouldn't have. Scum really don't need any additional benefits, especially with the site meta as it is. One of the huge benefits of having PRs in your game is that it forces the scum to play more scummily, since they should have to hunt for valuable town roles. Why nerf that?

The answer I've heard is that if you don't, the game can easily be broken by mass-claim. If scum had to claim first, they'd very likely say something that will get them CC'd, or be forced to claim vanilla. If mods didn't want the game to be broken by mass-claim, a much more elegant solution than mod-provided fake-claim is to simply ignore the meaningless site meta of "there's only one role of a specific type in a game." Put two trackers or two doctors some games. You can also put zany low-utility roles/abilities in games to increase the pool of things scum could plausibly claim. Bam, no more need for the mod to directly favor the scum-team, and now you actually reward scum who are clever enough to come up with good claims.

To my mind, mod-given fakeclaims are one of the many mechanisms by which scumteams have been pampered to the extent that they win often by simply not posting or developing a meta of being useless/inscrutable. Once, I was talking to cabd about setups, and he brought up how marketplace mafia 2 had been "broken" by making a high-tier town group and a scummy group, and forcing the scummy group to transfer funds to the high-tier group. I thought this was hilarious, because "broken" here meant that the players found a way for scummy players to be guaranteed to lose on account of their scumminess, which is kind of how exactly how the game is supposed to work.
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Post Post #496 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:48 am

Post by GreyICE »

In post 488, CupcakePanda wrote:TOO MANY FUCKING MILLERS

THEY'RE NOT ALL TOWN

THAT IS ALL.
Hey Katsuki. Do you remember my last game, where I threatened to boot you because you were not only constantly posting on alts, you didn't give a shit about it and in fact deliberately at one point posted on an alt? Or Tales of Vesperia, where you were booted from the game because you not only posted on an alt, you lied about it?

Consider this your last, final, and only warning. Do this again and I will replace you.
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Post Post #497 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:19 am

Post by Kagami »

Hammer coming soon to theatres near you. Pretty sure I'm nomming LLD regardless of flip.
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Post Post #498 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:19 am

Post by Kagami »

Speak your peace if you have anything to say pre-twilight.
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Post Post #499 (ISO) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:30 am

Post by Aronis »

My nomination of LLD depends heavily on the flip.
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