Mini 1646: Quil's Smalltown (Game over!)

[Quilford]

• 
  
  Vote count 1.11
  
  
  Aronis (4)— DeasVail, Marquis, Flubbernugget, xRECKONERx
  Grib (3)— Antihero, Jingle, Bookitty
  Pine (1)— farside22
  farside22 (1)— Pine
  Jingle (1)— Shiidaji
  Bookitty (1)— Aronis
  
  Not Voting (2)— Grib, VictorDeAngelo
  
  It takes 7 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  > Day 1 will be 10 days long. It ends in (expired on 2015-02-24 21:15:09). <
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  VictorDeAngelo replaces Jake from State Farm. Thanks, and welcome!
  
  Prodding Antihero.
  
  Remember, you can request an updated Role PM containing your selected role's info any time you like, as detailed in the Setup post.

[Bookitty]

1. Bookitty, can you talk me through the thought process leading to your unvote of Farside?
2. I also worry that while you are considering the 'why would town act like this?' question when it comes to Aronis, you're not considering the 'why would scum act like this?' one.

1. I was suspicious of Farside because she was throwing out suspicion on me without ever engaging me. Same with Pine. She showed no curiosity regarding the reasoning nor alignment of the people she was suspecting. She defended Aronis pretty fiercely without having a townread on him. It all wasn't adding up, plus I would think Farside would know why I was pushing the top wagon without calling for more votes on him nor voting him myself. (Hint: I wanted to figure out his alignment for myself for my own role-related reasons and not just go with the flow and lynch the first viable target. I also wanted to get reactions from other people to develop reads there.) She knows my role; everyone does. She wasn't working to get a better read on Aronis herself. She was just attacking my questioning.

The posts just above the one that I unvoted in was the first one that showed me any sign of the

curious

and intelligent scumhunter that I expect from Farside. I unvoted her because of that. In my experience, if you don't at all recognise the playstyle of a person you have pretty extensive personal meta with, it's because they are hiding a power role or they are scum. It couldn't be the first in this game. She's now back to a similar approach in defending Grib. I don't know just what to make of that.

2. There are two ways to look at a game like this in terms of hunting scum, especially on the first day. One is to try to scumhunt hard and find the people who are showing cogdis or weird motivation. I've tried to do that and to read really carefully because I am not an especially confident power role player. The other, though, is benefit-loss. The roles that cost us the least in terms of power if we are wrong are definitely more expendable. Roles that can potentially prove themselves and that will likely be early kills are going to be targets for scum in this very very open game. I wanted very badly to give Aronis the benefit of the doubt by using the first approach because I felt for him in flailing in the choice phase. He's still useless, hence the cost-benefit feels I have for him at this point.

[Bookitty]

Things to remember:

Bulletproof protection can be given away.
The bodyguard dies after his protection is used.

If a player is targeted by a kill while under Bulletproof Vest and Bodyguard protection, the Bodyguard takes the hit, not the Vest.
If a Bodyguard under Bulletproof Vest protection protects a player targeted by a kill, the Bodyguard's Vest takes the hit.

According to Post 2 roles resolve in this order:

Roleblocker - Jake's replacement
Gentleman Thief - Pine
Bulletproof vest - DeasVail
Bodyguard - Shiidaji
Insomniac self-watcher - Grib
Invictus kills player of choice on death - Farside
All kills - scum and SK
One-shot cop - Reck
Archivist - Bookitty
Coroner - Jingle

@Quilford:

If DeasVail elected to give his bulletproof vest to someone else, would that also resolve and protect the new person before kills went through?

Thank you!

[Antihero]

DAMN THIS ACCOUNT

i'm v/la this weekend anyway, mod. i have a ton of crap to do.

[Bookitty]

@Antihero: Post something in here from your most commonly used alternate account when you have a chance, please. That will help.

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE:

Hello everyone, I'll be catching up in the next day or so.

[farside22]

Was it my imagination or did boo ask me for my read of grib then just accuse me of defending him?

[Bookitty]

Remember what I said about short answers? I expected more than "I'm townreading Grib" if you were responding to me. Why are you townreading Grib? Your role doesn't depend on keeping your reads and reasons close to the vest, so why are you?

[farside22]

Okay. I have a selfish reason for wanting to lynch Aronis. I can't investigate him. All my other scumreads (and I'm playing most of those fairly close to the vest for a reason) I have a shot at catching. Not him.

I don't want the day to end yet because I need a lot more interaction with people. Voting Aronis now makes it less likely I choose right tonight.

I'm also considering having everyone who is willing to do so tell me three names they think are the most likely scum and working from that list. In that case, I'll happily lynch Aronis whenever.

What do you think of Grib, Farside?

1. Bookitty, can you talk me through the thought process leading to your unvote of Farside?
2. I also worry that while you are considering the 'why would town act like this?' question when it comes to Aronis, you're not considering the 'why would scum act like this?' one.

1. I was suspicious of Farside because she was throwing out suspicion on me without ever engaging me. Same with Pine. She showed no curiosity regarding the reasoning nor alignment of the people she was suspecting. She defended Aronis pretty fiercely without having a townread on him. It all wasn't adding up, plus I would think Farside would know why I was pushing the top wagon without calling for more votes on him nor voting him myself. (Hint: I wanted to figure out his alignment for myself for my own role-related reasons and not just go with the flow and lynch the first viable target. I also wanted to get reactions from other people to develop reads there.) She knows my role; everyone does. She wasn't working to get a better read on Aronis herself. She was just attacking my questioning.

The posts just above the one that I unvoted in was the first one that showed me any sign of the

curious

and intelligent scumhunter that I expect from Farside. I unvoted her because of that. In my experience, if you don't at all recognise the playstyle of a person you have pretty extensive personal meta with, it's because they are hiding a power role or they are scum. It couldn't be the first in this game.

She's now back to a similar approach in defending Grib. I don't know just what to make of that.

Please explain yourself boo based on the bolded.

[farside22]

Remember what I said about short answers? I expected more than "I'm townreading Grib" if you were responding to me. Why are you townreading Grib? Your role doesn't depend on keeping your reads and reasons close to the vest, so why are you?

No I'm not playing this not awnsering my questions crap.
How did I defend grib?

[Bookitty]

My reasoning for voting Grib.

You weren't asked that. You were asked for a read on Farside/Boo/Aronis. Your commentary about the wagon (does one vote even constitute a wagon?) was volunteered.

If you approve of it, and your current vote is RVS, why keep a vote on Pine who actually DID have a wagon instead of choosing to join the wagon you pointed out you approved of?

My question to you comes after this and before these.

VOTE: Grib

Discuss.

I think grib is town

I do not. What has he done that makes you think he is town? Alternatively, why should I vote whoever you are voting?

I'm feeling all icky and confused about Grib. Had him as town, but the way he tries to reinforce how he's town in 249 feels possibly scummy. Again, I'm putting off a closer read until tomorrow.

Finally, your response to me.

I'm town reading grib.

Boo and jingle: why the scum read?

Scum read: pine, Jake, boo, aronis
In that order of scumminess.

Why would I assume that you were responding to me given the intervening posts, especially since you didn't even read my already given reasoning for my scum read on Boo? If I were one of your top scum reads really, wouldn't you be watching me like a hawk? Wouldn't you know what I'd said already?

Instead you asked me a question I'd already answered and gave no reasoning for your own townread on Grib. Calling someone a townread is a defense even if you give no reasons for it. You know that too.

[Bookitty]

Let me put it to you this way, Farside. Here's my assessment of the worst case scenario:

Day One:

13 alive.
Lynch town, 12 alive.

Night One:

Scum-kill, 11 alive.
SK-kill, 10 alive.

6-3-1 for town-scum-SK.

Day Two:

Lynch town, 9 alive.

Night Two:

Scum kill, 8 alive.
SK kill, 7 alive.

3-3-1 and town loses.

Where is your sense of urgency? Why aren't you actively reading and scumhunting now? Why are you content with reading people based on snarkiness, meta and other things that aren't really what I expect of you?

Your role demands that you guess right or IF you were the nightkill you cost us another townie and made the worst case scenario even more likely.

I made a typo in the previous post that you should be able to seize on to justify your scumread on me. It's just a typo, but having spotted it myself I pretty much expect you to catch it too if you're really scumhunting. I'm not getting the feeling that you are.

[DeasVail]

@Quilford: If DeasVail elected to give his bulletproof vest to someone else, would that also resolve and protect the new person before kills went through?

I thought I already asked this question and the answer was yes, but it may have not come across the way I meant it.

[Bookitty]

Yep, I see that. It was really early on. My question was a little more specific but it does cover the same territory so I'm good with that.

Given the fact that we can only count on two lynches this game if we don't lynch scum, I really want people to be more proactive and to post more without just accepting an Aronis lynch. If we lynch scum today, that makes the jobs of the roleblocker, one-shot cop and archivist (me) a lot easier since it narrows down who can perform the kill for the scumgroup. If we lynch the SK today, we're saving lives throughout the game.

Even if one or more of these slots is scum, they are pretty much on the spot to use their roles on behalf of town or be lynched for it anyway.

Reck, does the fact that two mislynches loses town the game make any difference in your motivation to scumhunt? We need you. I don't want you to call out your targets; I just want you to help us find scum while we still can.

[Bookitty]

On a related note, why is Aronis on your scumlist now, Farside? Do you think I'm scum with Aronis? What is your thought process there, please?

Why would scum want your role specifically? That was part of your suspicion of Pine if I recall correctly.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Aronis

[Bookitty]

Thanks, DeasVail. I don't know if he's scum or not but I don't like the whole laid-back attitude people are taking without actually trying to engage him.

We have three days to figure this out a little better. We can do it if everyone helps. Please help.

[Bookitty]

@MOD:

Could you please prod Pine and Shiidaji?

[Grib]

I'm sorry, everyone, but I won't be able to give this game the attention it deserves.

Mod, replace me please.

[Bookitty]

Le sigh.

Also @MOD:

Could we get an extension pending replacements to allow them to get up to speed?

[farside22]

Remember what I said about short answers? I expected more than "I'm townreading Grib" if you were responding to me. Why are you townreading Grib? Your role doesn't depend on keeping your reads and reasons close to the vest, so why are you?

No I'm not playing this not awnsering my questions crap.
How did I defend grib?

[Bookitty]

Calling someone a townread is a defense even if you give no reasons for it. You know that too.

[farside22]

Calling someone a townread is a defense even if you give no reasons for it. You know that too.

That's bs and you know it.
Players call people town. You sure as shit had no issue taking a town read on you as a compliment.

Defending is putting points against the case, which you want me to do.

As for your read on grib, I dint read everything written. I have ADD issues where I skim and attack things without reading everything.
Pisses people off mostly.
All I recalled from your issues with grib was wording he used which I thought was pretty weak.

As for my reads. Yes I'm scum reading you and aronis.
You think he's scum, goading the wagon but take steps to shift the wagon away from him. Where is the town motive in that?

[farside22]

On a related note, why is Aronis on your scumlist now, Farside? Do you think I'm scum with Aronis? What is your thought process there, please?

Why would scum want your role specifically? That was part of your suspicion of Pine if I recall correctly.

Arnois doesn't hide from wagons. He fights against players and would be in here to tell players who he thought was scum. I also pointed out he is not too busy to post more.

Why are you suddenly defending him?

[Bookitty]

I have said repeatedly that I don't have a read on him. I was trying to provoke HIM to post and give me a way to read him. I failed. You helped to derail my questioning yourself.

We have conflicting meta on Aronis. Marquis says he's off, you say he's the same as you expect. How did you derive a scumread on him now?

I'm trying to sort you because if you're town you're a great asset to us. But you're going out of your way to do things that I perceive as anti-town or unhelpful. These things are, in no particular order:

1. The two main wagons are on Aronis and Grib. You say you think Aronis, me and Jake are the scum. Yet your vote sits happily on Pine.
2. Attacking me for explaining Aronis's situation to him and trying to convince him to post so he could be read.
3. Focusing much of your attention on me when my role makes it unlikely I will be the lynch for today and when I could be of great use to town by using my role in a smart way.
4. Misrepresenting or ignoring my postings when you claim to think I'm scum; that's not how you act when you are town and you think you're on the track of scum.
5. Misreading me completely, something that if you are town I think you would not do so readily (this suspicion came up early and you've basically coasted on confbias since then if you are town or decided to stick with it if you are scum).

As to why I'm defending Aronis, I'm not. I have no read on him. I have said that repeatedly. I don't think we should put him on autolynch without actually having a discussion in which everyone participates. Why are you misrepping pretty much everything I say?

What you are saying about Aronis was true when I was questioning him. Why is it only an issue for you now?