Toriel's Patience (end)

[Keyleth]

Hi everyone! Are y'all as excited as I am? When I saw undertake I knew I had to join. Although the excitement is also mixed with being kinda nervous woo!

[Keyleth]

I'm getting popular

I think

Dunn

is above rand town

Is this a joke because there are only three wolves? I think I get it!

Being popular must be nice totally not at all jealous.

[Keyleth]

Are you new

Keyleth?

Do you always bold usernames? It brings attention to the eyes but is also slightly intimidating.

I'm not new to mafia, no! Why do I give off that impression? I've played video mafia and forum mafia before although I saw undertale theme and was like 'omg I have to join this.'

[Keyleth]

Also there's the bit about it being a very gentle/soft nudge in the direction of us going mercy route when town in Dunnstral position should want to push town very hard to go mercy route not be cagey about saying 'well genocide run is basically mountainous'.

It's not that it's a confident scumread but I have a few people I think are more likely town than not and Dunnstral is the only person who really pinged me thus far.

Sorry if I'm not getting something here but why does Dunnstral want to push us to go the Merch route, because he's Toriel? Aren't they just a public double voter that can't be voted for now? Why does that indicate the mercy route?

I get voting out mafia makes Day 2 really good for us but I'm not really understanding the correlation.

[Keyleth]

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

He's the most important to discuss,

because

he's getting flipped no matter what.

Really? I thought the exact opposite!

[Keyleth]

Ohhh so we vote at 2.5 and then at 3 Dunn gets sent to the afterworld.

So you want us to talk about that, I see. I didn't fully get that but shouldn't that be felt for mostly Day 2? At least, I wouldn't want to clog the thought with thoughts on a player we can't flip! This dayphase has extra emphasis on flipping a wolf so I was kinda tunneled onto that mentality haha.

[Keyleth]

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

eh i just think toriel's alignment isn't the most interesting topic of discussion and i thought starting out focusing on his slot

was going to be more likely to come from scum

Can you a elaborate little bit more on this please? Did you like, plan on talking about this yourself if you were scum then got a town role card and didn't do that? Honestly I didn't really think that far ahead so I'm a tad curious.

[Keyleth]

Meuh entrance does not look good to me.

Are you familiar with them and it doesn't give you good vibes or is just an entrance you don't like in general?

[Keyleth]

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

eh i just think toriel's alignment isn't the most interesting topic of discussion and i thought starting out focusing on his slot

was going to be more likely to come from scum

Can you a elaborate little bit more on this please? Did you like, plan on talking about this yourself if you were scum then got a town role card and didn't do that? Honestly I didn't really think that far ahead so I'm a tad curious.

no

i just looked at the setup and was like, hm toriel is getting flipped no matter what, i don't really need to sort that slot

whereas scum has a vested interest in either pocketing that slot or making it town read enough to mercy

I guess I never considered what it would be like for the scum partners that aren't toriel in that case. Mostly just the pressure it would put on Dunnstral. You're right, that is the obvious answer but do people normally do the obvious answer because if it is the obvious answer it turns into the bad one. Did that make sense? I can try and make it less wordy.

The best way to read Toriel to me was just think of them as a normal player where we know what their motivations were on Day 2 although that sort of goes against the way I play.

[Keyleth]

I think I went into a why I find mafia cool ramble over a explaining your thought process ramble.

[Keyleth]

I like that reaction from Taly personally!

[Keyleth]

Who are we voting then, Keyleth?

Uh
Uhhhhhhhhh

See I play with everyone starting as a townread and when that goes down to votable is when I feel comfortable voting, or I just sheep my obvious townreads so really nothing feels like, comfy votewise. I know people vote for reaction sometimes but if I did that then you'd ask me to explain and I wouldn't be able to explain.

Basically I'm saying I have no vote at the moment.

[Keyleth]

I'm more curious about why you think Keyleth is likely scum here, and I find that you're making scumreads quite quickly which is of note.

her tone feels a little performative in terms of expressing excitement but nervousness over and over again but i just realized while writing this that that might be an attempt to roleplay as the character keyleth

the main thing is the focus on posting and asking questions about things related to the setup or things that aren't related to anyone's alignment at all

clarifying a joke in 39

asking why you bold usernames in 47

setup talk in 52 and 63

71 feels like a question for a sake of question and not an attempt to sort me especially given there was no follow up thoughts about my alignment after i answered

i would just expect a town entrance to include something about someone's alignment before 89

keyleth is posting a lot but that hasn't really translated into approaching the game in a towny way

I'm not trying to rp as the character, I just picked the character because of the similarities I found in our personalities.

I can see how you would wolfread me based on the lack of alignment talk but I view everyone as a villager until I see a reason otherwise ya know? Plus with the whole mercy route that works in favor cause all you gotta do is find the super duper obvious people and yay! You win.

Although I guess you could go the fight route but I just assumed everyone like me joined for the mercy route.

[Keyleth]

Plus with the whole mercy route that works in favor cause all you gotta do is find the super duper obvious people and yay! You win.

Although I guess you could go the fight route but I just assumed everyone like me joined for the mercy route.

Look at this:

If Mercy is chosen, for the rest of the game subsequent eliminations are flavored as sparings and town wins if town spares four townies and loses if it spares two mafia.

The day 3 elimination is Toriel.

This is what I initially missed, if we spare then I end up as one of the spared people, rather than simply leaving the game. So you're not supposed to know what route we are going for yet.

So like we take a second public vote D2 on if we think you're town or a wolf and make a vote based on that? Okay, I see.

Wow glad I'm not a wolf way too much pressure.

[Keyleth]

Did I say something funny?

[Keyleth]

Plus with the whole mercy route that works in favor cause all you gotta do is find the super duper obvious people and yay! You win.

you still have to figure out where scum are the most likely to be if we go the mercy route

is taly your top town read?

Yeah see! There's like, an internal points system I've got, have you seen harry potter? I would probably vote for who my top townread is if we go Mercy or just sheep the consensus because it's more likely their reads are better then the mind of one person.

I really feel for Taly, I got from their reaction to the vote they like, expect to be townread so to be voted early upsets them? That would have to come from a super confident wolf no? I'm just making judgements based on Taly's personality so far though.

[Keyleth]

It comes across as a very forced towntell, Keyleth.

Honestly, not the first time this has happened to me. People normally question why I'm so apologetic but I sort of just type without thinking. I can try to pull it back a little if it's annoying.

[Keyleth]

That made me giggle.

[Keyleth]

Isn't it normal to question people you townread if you're trying to prepare for the mercy route? Well, even though it isn't confirmed cause we need to think on Dunnstral but still. To say that's not a townie pov is pretty harsh words!

[Keyleth]

keyleth when you make a post like 131

are you trying to say that you are deducting points from the mandate house

or are you just questioning their read

See, at first it was the former but then I thought it could just be that they're overly analytical and a bit thorny as a personality thing so it became a question to consider if I should take away points from their house.

[Keyleth]

We're not preparing for the mercy route yet though, we're trying to figure out who to eliminate for today and tomorrow.

You know I had a really stupid question but instead of embarrassing myself I'm going to simply say you are correct. Do you also townread everyone or does no one give you reason to vote them?

[Keyleth]

which means if we get two scum lims d1 and d2 and then go pacifist we just win ya

Yeah! I thought that was an error in the setup at first but when I figured it o ut I realized how important D1 is going to be compared to other games if we hit right.

[Keyleth]

After that post from Mandate I feel even more content to vote the mercy route!

[Keyleth]

After that post from Mandate I feel even more content to vote the mercy route!

This makes no sense to say. I'm not saying I think you're scum for saying it, I haven't decided on you yet. I'm saying it literally makes no sense when it was just spelled out that we go mercy if we think Toriel is town, we don't if we think Toriel is scum. Mandate's thoughts on your shouldn't affect this at all.

I have no reason to not think Dunnstral is town right now, and with the points I gave Mandate it makes me feel even better. All you need is two more to win the game, right? It's easier to find townies then it is to find wolves. At least, to me it is!

[Keyleth]

After that post from Mandate I feel even more content to vote the mercy route!

This makes no sense to say. I'm not saying I think you're scum for saying it, I haven't decided on you yet. I'm saying it literally makes no sense when it was just spelled out that we go mercy if we think Toriel is town, we don't if we think Toriel is scum. Mandate's thoughts on your shouldn't affect this at all.

I have no reason to not think Dunnstral is town right now, and with the points I gave Mandate it makes me feel even better. All you need is two more to win the game, right? It's easier to find townies then it is to find wolves. At least, to me it is!

Only nights 1-3 are skipped, the whole game is not nightless. Mafia can kill people before we can spare them.

Oh, I forgot that part. More townreads required then.

[Keyleth]

Taly can you share some of that confidence?

[Keyleth]

Taly can you share some of that confidence?

how do you feel about the wagon on you?

Mm, not much? Like, it isn't really something I can defend or talk about much cause we're not partners. I think the third vote is probably the one I feel the most "oh that's a bit icky"

[Keyleth]

I want my little pipe dream of all town posting early to be true okay? Let me dream.

[Keyleth]

Don't worry, by the way your voting me, I flip town. Taly becomes obvious town, we send at least two villagers over. Victory shall be sweet!

[Keyleth]

im townreading you kinda

I will never be able to know your alignment again

I got this for you! Town.

[Keyleth]

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

[Keyleth]

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

If you're a wolf you want to be townread so you go over or push some wrong villagers but Sakura is just, doing neither? Unless that's the point to get townread but that's wifom ya know?

[Keyleth]

i think if i was you and town i would be suspicious of someone coming to my defense in the way sakura did

Why?

[Keyleth]

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

If you're a wolf you want to be townread so you go over or push some wrong villagers but Sakura is just, doing neither? Unless that's the point to get townread but that's wifom ya know?

This feels kind of reductive? Wolves post to have thread presence, to be engaged in the game, to have fun... pushing agenda is nice but not every single wolf post is anchored on that and not every wolf post has deep and complex connotations. Wolves absolutely just post random thoughts to look more engaged, which tend to make you look more townie (or at the very least less appealing to lim), and nothing in Sakura's posting indicates that she isn't

trying

to be townread. Wraps around to the classic "if I'm a wolf, how come I'm not being townread?" argument, as if getting townread is this guaranteed thing to gain with certain posts rather than something that wolves fail at a bunch.

I don't think you're wrong, obviously wolves post just for the sake of it sometime because it's fun! Mafia are humans too so of course they can do things just cause. But, I don't think you're really applying the context to the situation at hand. Because it isn't like her posting is just random gibbisher? It feels like there is some stuff behind it and I don't know just.

I wouldn't randomly throw out a townread and defend a player just for the fun of it?

[Keyleth]

I wouldn't randomly throw out a townread and defend a player just for the fun of it?

Scum do that, though. Not "for the fun of it", but scum make reads and engage with the game in ways that aren't solely focused on pushing townies over or doing super surface level townie things. Scum want to act like they do as town, to look helpful, to look as though they're thinking about the game, to maintain presence, to cozy up to people, to not get seen as an inactive...
Sakura making a handful of posts that aren't focused on throwing someone under the bus doesn't mean she's town? It feels like a reach

I get what you're saying, trust me if anyone knows how complex a game like mafia is it's me. It's not just a black and white mafia do one thing and town do another. I just, don't see what her actions do that give her any favors at the moment? I think, you're trying to warn me about my read, and thank you for that! If it looks totally wacky ya can bonk me on the head. Mafia is a bunch of question and isn't nearly as simple. Right now, I like Sakura, and her posting. If that changes, I'll let you know!

[Keyleth]

Going to throw out some wild reads. Brown Eyes, Meuh, Mandate, Taly, Keyleth, Merlyn are townies.

Can you go into detail a bit more about the first two for me, please?
pedit: Wait, I thought I was a wolf now I need to find them?!

[Keyleth]

It definitely helps that this is the kind of setup where I fully expect scum to be going full on buddying each other trying to make a pseudo townbloc

Why would you expect scum necessarily to go "full on buddying each other"?

Fight route looks similar to mountainous and sparing a mafia in Mercy route through a "pseudo townblock" would cause suspicious to be cast on the people in it afterwards

I think scum would be more likely to try to buddy other players in this game but I don't understand why they would willingly associate themselves and risk diminishing their individual odds of being spared after one of them is

I think, personally this just goes to show that when you have something like this, there's a lot of unexplored ways on how a wolf could or should play it. Getting locked into the mindset of how they would is sort of exactly what I think they'd want us to do?

That's why I personally wanted to go Mercy because it's like, a lot easier to just let people show their thoughts and everything they feel in a good light vs who is trying to work the thread to their advantage.

[Keyleth]

I've read over Meuh/Dunnstral being teammates in my head for about five minutes, got a headache then dropped the subject because I don't think I can go down that angle without it being random.

[Keyleth]

I actually sort of feel the opposite, I think it it gets into a big game of people fighting to be the most town it becomes a lot harder to solve, but I don't think it's as important whether we spare or kill as not sparing scum!Dunnstral and not killing town!Dunnstral.

Really? In my experience of video mafia and other stuff it at least felt a lot harder for wolves to fake a townread on their teammate vs making a wolfcase on inconsistencies of weaknesses villagers do. Maybe I'm incorrect in my theory and have a bit of choo choo brain because of my urge to send over all of Dann/You/Taly

[Keyleth]

maybe im scum reading keyleth's personality

I don't know how I'm supposed to take this comment. So I'm just gonna laugh.

[Keyleth]

I think it's hard to find scum when that scum has no incentives that scum doesn't have. Scum who is a spare contender has the exact same play incentives as town. Sure, the one scum pushing for their buddies has different motives but even if most of the table agrees one person is scum you can't Lim/flip them and all their actions become wifom.

Do you think this is all going to come down to what people think Dunnstral are or is there a route you want to go down regardless if you don't mind me asking?

[Keyleth]

maybe im scum reading keyleth's personality

I don't know how I'm supposed to take this comment. So I'm just gonna laugh.

it's nothing against you

you seem like a fun person

but im having a hard time telling if some of the things you're saying and posting on are actually scummy or if that's just your writing / speaking style

Oh don't worry I wasn't offended!

It was just really funny to think about someone saying you having a wolfy personality so I started to laugh. My boss would get a kick out of that one!

If you're having such a hard time though, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have for me!

[Keyleth]

This is of course assuming I am making the decision in a vacuum, I'm sure other people will have thoughts and I think it's quite likely that we end up sparing no matter what just because that's what people want from an Undertale game and we go from there.

I think at least for me personally it all depends on D1 considering how much wolves would be in a tough situation because they basically have to defend their partner or pray that they're townread enough to not go over.

Although, I guess if Dunnstral is a wolf they don't need to feel too bad because it's one less slot to worry about but under my current point system I'm not seeing that as the case even though I want to hear from them on Meuh.

[Keyleth]

I wonder how much activity levels matter because if you have to try and find villagers in people that don't post as much it's a lot more of an oh no sort of take in the mercy route vs the fight route. Not that I think we'll probably go that deep into detail. I should probably just keep most mercy/fight talk to myself until we're done.

Also is day 2.5 a real day or just a vote type deal that we can talk about?

[Keyleth]

It took me five minutes to figure out how to link posts and I'm not proud of it. I just wanted to get that out there while I catch up and say hellooooo!

[Keyleth]

I’ve seen Aristeia get a few votes and when I look at their posts such as 427 and 426 I get this sort of, too cool for school rocker kinda energy that isn’t in the whole what is expected from a villager thing and it was hard for me to tell if the posts they’re making were wolfy to me or just a personality thing. Are they like this normally? It doesn’t help that if I compare their push on Me/Taly to Mandate I can see some clear differences. Basically if we were to go the spare route I would be a tad uncomfortable sending them over but at the same time my curiosity in our very opposite way of playing wants me to see it.

The posts from Lazy Shirou here are very nice, might be a tad cloudy cause Meuh has the least points at the moment but, that doesn’t seem together?

Going to throw out some wild reads. Brown Eyes, Meuh, Mandate, Taly, Keyleth, Merlyn are townies.

Can you go into detail a bit more about the first two for me, please?
pedit: Wait, I thought I was a wolf now I need to find them?!

Well for Brown Eyes I liked their early thoughts on the setup in 27 and 44. Post 59 seems inquisitive, and then post 149 seems unlikely to come from mafia as I find mafia usually have a harder time understanding information like this, especially when pairing it to people who haven't posted yet.

For Meuh I like posts 288 and 315, and note how she townreads Sakura anyway in post 321, which would be an odd thing to do as mafia given their argument to you which is actually based on the theory.

Yeah I liked that post from her as well! Mafia tend to have a plan or at least, try to keep the story on track but it's sort of wild and a just obvious inconsistency? Seems more likely to come from a villager but my head goes back on this and I'm still like, not in the town camp with the slot yet.

As for Brown eyes thank you.

[Keyleth]

Brown Eyes is likely town, but I think I just agree with what implosion said on the matter. In regards to implosion the person I’m sheeping I’m not particularly sure. The style of posting is relatively tricky to read earlier on in a game.

I agree with everything you post to an almost uncomfortable level.

[Keyleth]

Not gonna lie I think there's a world where Keyleth is town but wrong on Taly but I'm gonna forget about that for now because there's more interesting stuff to pursue ATM.

I need a paper bag and I'd probably have to read a few games of Taly but is she so um, eager? Words are hard but they have a pulse on the thread combined with a level of anger that feels almost wrong to use as a wolf or at least it'd have to be fully fake? If she's a wolf it's an impressive level of emotional emulation.
I feel very strongly town on Implosion

I'll hold my thoughts on Beeboy for now

I've seen you say this twice and I am now sitting here waiting for more with a notepad and pen out waiting. Because I am willing to trust your read on the slot if you feel super good about it.

[Keyleth]

NO I MESSED UP MY QUOTE.

The shame I am feeling. . .

[Keyleth]

i am excited to work with mandate in this game and i am going to be very sad if they are scum.

ah hell yeah what a pagetop

I have to wonder if you would bother with the calculations if you're mafia.

sadly i would *probably* make that exact post as scum lol.

I might or might not have gotten around to it as quickly though.

Call me easily trusting but these three posts to me are like, the best implosion has made? Not even the EV sheet itself because you can make that as a wolf but it's just, I don't know I really like it?

[Keyleth]

i dont get your read on her even now, but i agree that her tone in this quote feels unnatural on first glance

Shirou is saying he is leaning towards town on Meuh for that post

No I'm not

It's more like, I was leaning her to scum

but then that post made me lean her to null again

Meuh is anywhere between nullscum, null and nulltown depending on my variable mood when I open the thread yes

I don't have a solid read on her atm

p-edit: okay

Can I ask how much you've played with Meuh before? You and I seem to express a level of similar feelings when it comes to Meuh and I'm having a bit of a struggle when it comes to this game so I would love any input you could give me!

I know I'm probably going to just go spare on D3 at this point and I know that if I go spare on D3 I'm probably going to push for Sakura being spared and I don't know how to feel better about that right now

I don't think anyone needs to worry about me, I'm just being a little neurotic

You've kind of lost me a little here. Given 697. If I was feeling the way you're projecting or at least like, what I'm reading here Sakura would be the last person I spare, infact I'd be probably voting her! Are you like, just really confident on her being a villager but you have her as your what if wrong kinda read and not wanting to lose? Personally when I mumbled in my head who the first four people I'd spare was she didn't come to mind if that helps and I guess you can call that scumhunting but this game feels like a struggle when I thought it'd be comfortable. (Really my mindset is in just spare the comfy vibe townies and I don't have to worry about the wolves but hey.)

Like, I think the biggest thing people are feeling that I'm not getting is the ton of townreads?

[Keyleth]

Fascinating, Keyleth

I was very strongly considering voting Beeboy

I feel as if you're doing this to make my brainwork overtime and it's working.

EBWOP

I’ve seen Aristeia get a few votes and when I look at their posts such as 427 and 426 I get this sort of, too cool for school rocker kinda energy that isn’t in the whole what is expected from a villager thing and it was hard for me to tell if the posts they’re making were wolfy to me or just a personality thing. Are they like this normally? It doesn’t help that if I compare their push on Me/Taly to Mandate I can see some clear differences. Basically if we were to go the spare route I would be a tad uncomfortable sending them over but at the same time my curiosity in our very opposite way of playing wants me to see it.

Aristeia's pronouns are she/her.

What do you think villager energy looks like? Will all villagers have it?

Can you explain the clear differences that you talk about here?

Sorry, I don't think I can answer your question. It's not that I don't want to it's just, when I sat here trying to word it doesn't really make that much sense.

[Keyleth]

Brown Eyes is likely town, but I think I just agree with what implosion said on the matter. In regards to implosion the person I’m sheeping I’m not particularly sure. The style of posting is relatively tricky to read earlier on in a game.

I agree with everything you post to an almost uncomfortable level.

Why do posts like this make me feel like a robot.

I am so sorry that wasn't at all my intent with the post. I was just reading the thread and you made those posts while I was thinking it.

[Keyleth]

what I'm reading here Sakura would be the last person I spare, infact I'd be probably voting her!

It's a shame you can't vote right now then

No that was in response to what Mandate was posting haha! That isn't my current thoughts on Sakura.

Keyleth I don't scumread Sakura I have her as like 90% town I'm just really angsty about losing to the last 10%

I simply don't think Dannflor can present as cohesive a narrative as scum as he did this game, i found it very easy to track exactly what Dannflor was thinking that never entered his posting and then his future posting followed the unspoken trajectory more than the spoken trajectory. Scum try to (usually succeed too) keep narrative cohesiveness from post to post but they usually struggle to have a coherent ""out of thread pov"" that underlines the posts that they actually make. I don't think Dannflor does this successfully as scum.

90% huh? Mm, I can't say I am at the fuzzy go over level you have but I can Iso them again if you think it would help?

I also think Dann is town and my early dream of thinking you Taly Dann were town and just wanting to send you three over is really strong right now.

[Keyleth]

I've gone through this constant paranoia cycle in my head. Because if we're on the right track why aren't the wolves trying to stop it?
Then I remember it's only been two irl days and I'll have to go through this cycle for a long longer.
Then I wonder why I play mafia.
Then I come back and remember all over again.

I'm having a blast btw.

[Keyleth]

I've gone through this constant paranoia cycle in my head. Because if we're on the right track why aren't the wolves trying to stop it?
Then I remember it's only been two irl days and I'll have to go through this cycle for a long longer.
Then I wonder why I play mafia.
Then I come back and remember all over again.

I'm having a blast btw.

who is your preferred elimination currently ?

I am glad you are having fun

As for my preferred elimination, I don't really have one? I know what you're asking and have people I would fight less to go over than others but there's no one I'm super confident on that I want to go over. It's really hard for me to reach that point.

I hope you are as well! Make sure to drink some water.

[Keyleth]

I don't really see the Mandate world that people are bring up would love some more detail if that is ever at all possible.

I know Merlyn has shown her interest in it as long as Aristeia (is Ari okay or is the full username preferred?)

Does anyone else feel that?

[Keyleth]

Keyleth I have a question

You were one of the original people who pushed me/you/taly/dannflor as all town so I'm curious on your thoughts on the people pushing the idea that the townblock is scum heavy

Well my kneejerk reaction to that is it's scummy because if we do have a correct townblock then obviously the wolves have to stop us, right? But I don't want to be stuck in this world where I just think anyone who has a difference in opinion to me is wolfy that's horrible plus I don't have the confidence in my own reads for that.

I've seen people call Dann wolfy for not being here and I don't really agree with that? It feels like something you can't defend against and without any logic of past games to back it up is just a statement without merit? Yes, he came out aggressive on me, but then he changed his mind. There can be a path where the progression is fake and he did it cause I'm not getting many votes but that seems unlikely given when I read it back?

Taly just still feels good to me if she can fake that? Kudos? With the way I'm reading the game I'm stacking up points for people to be town but I want to hear why people feel a certain way. I know were not all gonna agree so I'll probably end up voting with someone.

[Keyleth]

(Btw I am very used to using they/them pronouns as to not offend anyone so if I ever use it in reference to you and it makes you uncomfortable please give me a bonk as I mean no harm and am trying to break the habit thank you)

[Keyleth]

The three people I sat down thinking and looking over for who has the least points and who I would vote aren’t wagons so I’m just gonna sit here and try to get a read on beeboy because that seems to be the hot thread topic wooo.

[Keyleth]

Who are those three people?

You ever just sit down and come to the slow answer that you don’t townread someone nearly as much as others? Yeah that was me after work. As for who the three are it’s Alisae, Meuh, and Merlyn. So I would love some help of you feel strongly on those slots.

[Keyleth]

I don’t want that post to be taken as me calling those three scum because I’m not. It’s just who I need the most help with. I almost didn’t want to make that post because I know it sounds like calling them wolf but me finding wolves is easily like, the thing I feel worse at.

[Keyleth]

Side note I’ve been listening to this cute little ghost duet and is it just so relaxing.

[Keyleth]

Side note I’ve been listening to this cute little ghost duet and is it just so relaxing.

I don’t want that post to be taken as me calling those three scum because I’m not. It’s just who I need the most help with. I almost didn’t want to make that post because I know it sounds like calling them wolf but me finding wolves is easily like, the thing I feel worse at.

Ghosts are dueting you??!!

So let's interact if you want to solve me. Anything about my reads or actions that have given you pause or that you have questions about?

Yes they're very cute! I would link to the song and question but I do not know how!

Of course I would love to interact and, I don't really know if it's your reads or anything because I can't look at your posts and say I have an issue with but more I think when I look at other slots I nod along more. So right now what I'm working with is a current pool of 5 being Me, Mandate, Dann, Implo, and Taly. Assuming Dunnstral is a villager this pool of five wins the game. This sort of started with us being the first four posting than implo coming along.

Do you take issue with these five in anyway? Who would you replace and add in? Any pressing thoughts? Really, anything would help me I'm not the best at asking questions but I hope you get what I mean.

[Keyleth]

I wanted to ask that stuff to people outside the townblock because maybe I'm just feeling pleasantly surprised to not be scumread because people see my personality and normally go "she can't be real" haha. Although I also don't know what I did to be so townread maybe I should be questioning it more?

[Keyleth]

If this is Lazy Shirou the idea of aggro hyperposting Shirou would put me into my boots. Can I ask for your hottest take? One that would make it seem like we just ate a spicy pepper if you have one? I see you obviously disagree with Mandate but is there anything else you feel strongly on but might be in the minority on?
pedit: I guess that works!

~Kiki

[Keyleth]

Before I answer Merlyn Shirou I have a quick question. I think it's sort of established that your trying, or at least it seems it to me. So like, how do I put this. . .

I think you've had really towny moments I've seen posts from you that if you're a wolf I could only dream to fake like wow kudos. But I see this energy and amazing posting but where I'm wondering about this energy is. I think there's at least, a few slots that probably are number 1/2 to get spared being Mandate/Taly.

You also seem to have issue with me and Implo but I don't see you doing much to stop it. If there was something I was really super unsure about and they were in a decent spot to go over, why haven't you stopped, cased, or really questioned either of us? Unless I'm forgetting.

[Keyleth]

I guess this is my opening window to invite you to say why me/implo shouldn't be townread and why we are dangerous and scary.

[Keyleth]

Side note I’ve been listening to this cute little ghost duet and is it just so relaxing.

I don’t want that post to be taken as me calling those three scum because I’m not. It’s just who I need the most help with. I almost didn’t want to make that post because I know it sounds like calling them wolf but me finding wolves is easily like, the thing I feel worse at.

Ghosts are dueting you??!!

So let's interact if you want to solve me. Anything about my reads or actions that have given you pause or that you have questions about?

Yes they're very cute! I would link to the song and question but I do not know how!

Of course I would love to interact and, I don't really know if it's your reads or anything because I can't look at your posts and say I have an issue with but more I think when I look at other slots I nod along more. So right now what I'm working with is a current pool of 5 being Me, Mandate, Dann, Implo, and Taly. Assuming Dunnstral is a villager this pool of five wins the game. This sort of started with us being the first four posting than implo coming along.

Do you take issue with these five in anyway? Who would you replace and add in? Any pressing thoughts? Really, anything would help me I'm not the best at asking questions but I hope you get what I mean.

if it's on youtube you can link using the youtube tags! [ youtube ] [ /youtube ] no spaces

This is a good question. I am leaning town for you and Taly. There's something uncalculated about both your posting styles that seem like they would be hard to fake. I am starting to come around to the idea that Mandate is town also due to to posting style, but I'm not sold on it being unfakable yet. I could never put Implo or Dann in a townpool in D1 lol. I just played two completed games (one with each) where they were scum and I was blown away by how good they each are at looking towny while being wolf. Sticking with the pool of 5 idea, I would 'rep in' Ari and Shirou, or maybe Beeboy and Shirou. One of those completed games was with town Ari and she is acting exactly like she did in that game. My one caveat there is that I've never seen scum Ari and I don't know how closely her scum game resembles her town game yet.

Delightful! Thank you I hope you enjoy, I have this on loop sometime.

Can you show me these games of Implo and Dann? I could have something nice to read on my break. Do you think they've been towny this game but you have this fear they can be tricking you or do they just not ring those towny bells? One other question I have that I like to throw out in conversation is do you think you've been towny? Should we be in awe that Merlyn herself is not in the town spare pool!
Also if you have anything you wish to ask me please do I always do enjoy these conversations.

fixing BBcode for YouTube tag

[Keyleth]

I messed up my link maybe if I post enough we can put it in the past.

I live with the philosophy that you should focus on a few posts that are more likely to come from one alignment than the other rather than most posts in someone's ISO, and there hasn't been any particular post from you two that I felt compelled to say "this post significantly comes more often from town than scum" yet.

What an interesting philosophy! It's sort of challenging for me to wrap my head around given I think we work in two very different ways but, can you show me a quick example with a slot that isn't beeboy? (You could do beeboy if you want but I imagine you're tired of that)

[Keyleth]

I guess this is my opening window to invite you to say why me/implo shouldn't be townread and why we are dangerous and scary.

You seem to have a "Innocent until proven guilty" mindset

I've a "Guilty until proven innocent" mindset

That's it really

It's a ying and yang moment!

Or maybe fire and water I guess time will tell.

[Keyleth]

I messed up my link maybe if I post enough we can put it in the past.

I live with the philosophy that you should focus on a few posts that are more likely to come from one alignment than the other rather than most posts in someone's ISO, and there hasn't been any particular post from you two that I felt compelled to say "this post significantly comes more often from town than scum" yet.

What an interesting philosophy! It's sort of challenging for me to wrap my head around given I think we work in two very different ways but, can you show me a quick example with a slot that isn't beeboy? (You could do beeboy if you want but I imagine you're tired of that)

Taly's AtE and unconscious thread control attempt

If you go back at my progression on her slot I think you'll find those are the moments where I started to town read her because I thought both of those behaviors came from town!Taly significantly more likely than from scum!Taly

I'm glad someone else agrees with me on this. I know emotions and AtE can come from a wolf but I feel the context of the Ate is the most important part than the words themselves! I mean, Wolf Taly would be in the wrong so it makes almost no sense to get upset to the level he did! You'd have to have an extreme level of self-awareness and channel that into your posting. Of course, it's possible but I doubt it!

[Keyleth]

It would be personal territory but I think I'm simply a very distrustful and paranoid person even when I sound warm/friendly to others

I'm often thinking about how others could betray me/turn against me or so

I try to trust others a lot, because mafia to me feels like a team game and my favorite part is working together to try and solve the case.

Of course, this comes with it's own disadvantages I'm well aware of that but, I try to look at everyone's worldview because I feel a lot of people can project a mindset that is considered towny but doing townie actions takes some talent.

It's a lot less stressful for me personally then thinking everyone is trying to trick me. Then again being a wolf is even more stressful unless I know my teammates.

[Keyleth]

I think I'll probably have to depend on others to read Shirou for me after this conversation. I didn't dislike it but, I don't know if we'll ever be on the same page of the book ya know?

[Keyleth]

wound up spending a bunch of energy on board games again. alas

I think I need to not try to keep fully up with this game at the pace it's going, it'll be more productive to just do stuff in the moment.

ooo what game?
Settlers of catan?
Dead of Winter?
Small World?

[Keyleth]

Not gonna be here tonight but I would be ashamed if I didn't stop and wish Taly a happy birthday!

Make sure to eat some yummy food!

[Keyleth]

I can see that we're starting to get a tad divided and while that's probably good if we can sit down and calculate the exact meaning, right now it's a tad challenging. I wanna catch up and comment on a few things but right now this is just at the front of my mind and I wanted to get the thought out as I put my groceries away.

[Keyleth]

I took another look at Meuh, I don't think she is mafia

I took another look at Meuh, I don't think she is mafia

Please enlighten me because I keep reading and seeing mafia

Meuh tends to attract a lot of negative attention in general.

There were a couple of posts she made I liked such as 288 and 315. And then their read on Sakura in 321, and 448 seeming brazen for mafia. Meanwhile I'm not really hearing any arguments for why they are mafia even though it is being parroted.

The bolded leaves me curious. I understand some people's posting can leave a certain bad taste in my mouth and given this is my first time playing with people that wasn't the impression I got from Meuh at all. If anything, I thought that of Ari when I was reading her posts. Meuh's early posting, was mostly banter besides a few posts on how mafia works in my direction at 315 and 288. I think my biggest problem with Meuh is I can't seem to follow her thought process even though she's been able to show really well and drawn out posting, yet it seems like she doesn't follow up on it. Early townreads on Sakura and Merlyn with no elaboration before leading back into more mafia theory talk just seemed very odd to me. Maybe she was playing causally and wanted to pick up the pace but I've never really been able to shake this odd feeling even reading recent posting when she has started to put the gas on a little.

If I am under the current assumption that the townblock in my head is mostly correct, someone needs to make jabs at it or villagers to remove it, and right now Meuh is fitting that bill. Maybe we just disagree, and that would be great if you could help show that to me?

Haha.
I wonder if it's just a me thing, i used to be very pocketable... dunno if I still am, but sometimes i get wary of townreads of me that seem to come out of nowhere.

Does anyone come to mind besides BE? I haven't really paid much attention in regard to the who has townread you deal but given how you seem a tad focused on it you'd be able to see it before me.

[Keyleth]

I do think I've been towny, yeah, or I guess I would change my playing style? I won't be playing with the goal of being spared. I win as long as town wins, so I'm going to do my best to solve for scum and to leave a lot of interaction behind if I get limmed or nk'ed along the way to help find scum.

Here's a question for you- what do you currently think of Mandate's 'townblock' idea? Both the idea itself and then what do you think of the group he's got.

That's interesting, I never thought of playing with the idea to not be spared, it's kind of been my only goal is to get a comfy townblock and get myself to hopefully readable enough levels that people would be fine sending me over. This is probably an obvious question but, I'm assuming you feel confident in your ability to find scum? Can you remind me who you feel iffy about right now?

To answer your question, it has people I townread, so I understand the idea behind a townblock, but I also understand that's the easy way for wolves to win the game and the current worry I have right now given the thread seems to be getting divided is am I getting played or is it wolves trying to break up the wincon. Honestly, I haven't tried to think too hard because it's not an answer I could come to myself so I'm using other people as a soundbored.

You talked about who you would replace into the current townblock that mandate has, but do you have a comfy 5 you would just send off at the moment, or some people you really wouldn't send off?

[Keyleth]

I have a lot of weird and strange thoughts and they're often wrong but they're funny to me so I hope you appreciate them

Hi Aristeia! I know this isn't exactly the quote in question or really relevant but I wanted to ask because I remember you talking about you would be comfortable taking a sort of leader spot and choosing who to send over with time, do you still feel that way?

I also remember you saying you're trying to be comfy and causal, correct? Is that still going true as well? Because opinion on you seems to be a very hot topic or at least, a relevant one so I want to know how you felt about the people townreading you and wolfreading you. Do any feel opportunistic in either directions? You're a slot I'm having trouble with because I see someone make a statement about you and go "whoa where did that come from?" So, I'm praying a conversation helps fix any unease I may have.

[Keyleth]

Keyleth have you tried anointing yourself town leader and declaring that you are leading a Lim on Meuh and ordering your fellow townies to follow

That sounds like a nightmare please no.

[Keyleth]

The idea of someone following a read I made and then I getting it wrong is easily one of my biggest fears in mafia, people are probably way better at making reads than me so I don't mind just sitting here in my little corner.

[Keyleth]

beeboy your view of the game feels unbelievable to me. I'd expect you to reevaluate if your poe was all players who voted for you not lean into it because your theory seems really unlikely to me.

Really? I don't see an issue with it if you're self-aware enough, what am I missing?

[Keyleth]

beeboy your view of the game feels unbelievable to me. I'd expect you to reevaluate if your poe was all players who voted for you not lean into it because your theory seems really unlikely to me.

Idk maybe I play too many MU mashes where scum really do just pile votes down in large groups at a rate well above rand.
In my head its 1-2 scum on my wagon and 1-2 scum in the nulls or above which is reasonable to say imo even if the latter pool is people pushing me. I think the actual odds of there being 2 scum in a sample of 5 random people is actually pretty high as well :V

I maintain my stance because I think it's current 2 scum in my scum pool and 1 in the nulls feels reasonable to me. As much as there is a lot of ways to frame it as a bad take i should re-evaluate and I didn't notice how I was forming reads and sorta just doubled down when you made your post I still like buy what I was selling.

To address the more game based arguments made I don't think scum play around random Day 1 mid game vote counts that will be forgotten people don't usually VCA random mid points in the game from what I remember playing here or any of the other games I've played. I think that entire notion is more talk then something to care about in practice.

Like, to say Beeboy's line of thinking is wrong/they're making it up and then to post this feels really wild. Unless Beeboy is a really really talented mafia player who I should be looking at in another light.

[Keyleth]

Honestly I don't townread Sakura nearly to the levels most of the thread does but I'm gonna just trust that people can read her well and sheep it, but I think I'm finally caught up.

[Keyleth]

Unless Beeboy is a really really talented mafia player who I should be looking at in another light.

Beeboy is a really really talented mafia player who you should be looking at in another light.
.
.
.
Ok i cant even say that with a straight face XD
Just kidding btw.

I feel like a kid sitting at the lunch table looking over at the cool kids. Glad I could make you laugh though.

[Keyleth]

I was almost late to work because of DST and that was one crazy morning

[Keyleth]

I'm so sad to see all the replacements but I can only wish the best and a healthy time for everyone. Hello new slots!

[Keyleth]

I'm caught up but, I don't really know what to say because everything in my mind is sort of a jumbled mess trying to sort the game. It's a pretty unique set where I haven't seen a thread quite divided in a long time. I can say with confidence I would happily spare the Mandate slot, Dann, Implo,Taly aren't that far behind. I think this odd sense of comfortability I feel with those townreads is making me want to question everything ten times over because I think a level of uncertainty is good for the game, ya know? I also don't want to be super incorrect if half the thread is saying one thing and it should be obvious to me.

[Keyleth]

I'm probably going to ISO Ydra, seeing my predecessor is voting her.

Nevermind, Ydra is Mandate's replacement.
I think keeping my vote on her is fine for now.

How far along in the Iso did you get if you don't mind me asking? A fresh pair of eyes on this game coming from the replacements might be what we need.

[Keyleth]

If any of the replacements want to know more about my reads (or anyone for that matter) or someway I can help do feel free to let me know! I feel like I need to sit down and have another conversation with Meuh before I consider putting down a vote, doesn't really feel fair.

[Keyleth]

Dannflor
Aristeia was replaced by Random Nurse
Lazy Shirou
Brown Eyes
Alisae
implosion
beeboy

Kind of tempted to remove Beeboy from POE though

VOTE: Freedom

I see Merlyn wasn't in your list before, was Freedom's intro that bad that you felt the need to vote it? Also, you've been in the hot seat for a lot of the day, sorry if you've said this already but have you noticed any differences in the way people have wanted to vote, and or push you? Wolfy or towny?

[Keyleth]

Also!

[Keyleth]

okay i caught up
I think
Ari, Bee, Sakura, Shirou, Taly, and Key are all probably town.
Brown eyes is probably town as well.
Then there's Merlyn, Dunn, and Meuh. Meuh is kind of just unreadable to me.
And then there's Dann Implo Mandate
and I think Dann is the most suspicious. I think Dann's read on me is technically fine but I think they overexplained and overjustified it and I think that comes across as wolfy to me. They also screamed wolf to me early.
I think Dann is teammates w/ Implo

I was under the assumption that you haven't read at all, did you read every single page or how much did you get through?

Can you go into detail about your Ari read and anything else on your Dann read? Thank you!

[Keyleth]

Dannflor
Aristeia was replaced by Random Nurse
Lazy Shirou
Brown Eyes
Alisae
implosion
beeboy

Kind of tempted to remove Beeboy from POE though

VOTE: Freedom

Also, you've been in the hot seat for a lot of the day, sorry if you've said this already but have you noticed any differences in the way people have wanted to vote, and or push you? Wolfy or towny?

Not sure exactly what you’re asking here? Can you reformulate

Sorry! I know my thoughts can come out a jumbled mess let me try again.

I think it's safe to say that you've probably been the most at risk for elim along with beeboy. If you're a villager, you have a much better view of the gamestate than us. Have you tried to differentiate the pushes against you? What ones seem in good faith vs the ones that don't?

You also townread beeboy, correct? Have you noticed anything off there as well?

[Keyleth]

Hey everyone! So sorry for being away, I was really sick with the flu the past few days and I know me staying up thinking about mafia would not have helped anything, I'll be reading up tomorrow! But, if there's anything you think I should look at feel free to let me know and I'll get to it!

[Keyleth]

Okay! Oh boy, I am here, skimmed a tad, lot of pages. The thoughts aren't really coming to me. If I look at what I have for points I should be voting Alisae here because I feel like, they're very reasonable but I haven't got a lot of really fuzzy nice pings and maybe that's on me? Although I sit here, and say what does an alisae world give me and then my brain turns to soup all over again because I just don't get that answer.

Maybe I should read more not this late.

[Keyleth]

I guess the thing stopping me from voting Meuh most is meta? At least, what I can gather from what's been said about Meuh that she's always voted? I sit here and ask myself if I'm falling into those same traps and wanting to vote her. Did she ever get back to my question? I should go figure that out. I guess, I'm not really shocked about these wagons but I can't think of a wagon I would support more. I guess it's just a kudos to the playlist sort of deal.

[Keyleth]

Alisae, can you talk to me on Dann? Because I think Dann's posting is very clean. Like it's polished and worked on, I can tell he puts thought into his posts in a way that is hard to replicate. It makes it easy to townread cause it looks like good solving. What makes Dann a wolf? Can you point me to your posts?

[Keyleth]

Alisae, can you talk to me on Dann? Because I think Dann's posting is very clean. Like it's polished and worked on, I can tell he puts thought into his posts in a way that is hard to replicate. It makes it easy to townread cause it looks like good solving. What makes Dann a wolf? Can you point me to your posts?

So, everything that you're describing is very realistically likely to come from Dannflor. Dannflor really likes deepwolfing and they will just look very good.
I think the biggest differences between a town!Dannflor and a wolf!Dannflor is that town!Dannflor has moments that are easily able to be identified as the guy just wanting to be right where as wolf!Dannflor will just opt to look very good. I think Dannflor is a wolf who does not want to be right on me and is doing literally everything in his power to try to keep me in poe.

Can I ask you the same question I asked Meuh? If you're a villager, what people do you think have been pushing your slot in good faith vs bad? Obviously, we know where Dann stands in your list but anyone else?

If both of you are villagers then we're doing something wrong.

[Keyleth]

Truthfully, it's hard for me to just dismiss my Dann townread after so long but from what you're telling me I should be more careful, and I can accept/try to do that because I think everyone needs a person to tap them on the shoulder when they're just going wrong.

I think if I had to put a vote down on the current moment it would be Meuh or Freedom.

[Keyleth]

VOTE: Meuh

Deadline how I hate you for sneaking upon I.

[Keyleth]

You know I thought I'd be more nervous for my first vote but it really wasn't that bad.

[Keyleth]

WHO'S GOING TO GIVE ME HEADPATS NOW

*pat pat*

[Keyleth]

If meuh flips town it has wolves all over it

Really? I got the exact opposite vibe unless freedom is a wolf.

[Keyleth]

Meuh was

town

I had a bad feeling about this reading up on all of this but it feels like it needed to happen to see if we were on the wrong page. People are playing well, and it's so gah. I don't know if I need to reset or not. But, that's so hard.

[Keyleth]

I still think, I wanna go spare and send Ydrasse over because with that I'll feel much better with the town core established early because there reads seemed really well written. If that slot is bad then obviously so is my way of handling this game.

[Keyleth]

I still think Taly is fine, they've had to fake so much level of just thought process and live posting as a wolf that I've never seen before and the progression feels good to me? That means I need three more and I want to bin Ydrasse as well.

I want to pause on Dann given what Alisae said, but surely they're not both a wolf, well they could but I will wait for that line until it's needed.

[Keyleth]

i don't dislike the flip even if we were wrong

i do dislike the fact we now have unpaused deadline and we still don't have someone in the Ari slot

and Ari's slot has very decent odds of being scum

but okay

I agree, even if I was starting to get uneasy and think Meuh's late posting was good, I feel like we would've had paranoia the rest of the phase if we got the flip wrong. Well, I would've at least don't know about everyone else.

[Keyleth]

I should probably take some time to think over the little pocket circle of townreads that seem to be in the thread because obviously some people are wrong, but who? It isn't something we've really talked about, at least I can't remember it.

Mainly I'm talking about Beeboy/Shirou/Ali

Myself/Taly/Implo

I should check in on where Sakura/Dann are because my head is a tad fuzzy.

[Keyleth]

RCE

do you ever have those D1's where you emphatically believe someone is scum

despite your top two townreads

telling you that they are town, but you ignore that and proceed to eliminate said scumread, AND they actually flip town

that's me

that's my character arc right now

What?

Ali is one of your top town reads?

No no, I'm saying there's little pocket groups that seem to townread each other, or at least want them in their town spare list from what I remember. There's room for them to be correct, but it's probably worth talking about now that deadline isn't here, right?

[Keyleth]

Mm, I don't think I could vote Ydra here, she has good posts and I also really liked the Mandate slot before. Whenever Mandate was under pressure they seemed to make great posts and ways that just made sense for a defense? I feel like for them to be a wolf they would've had to do that from the start or at least plan it and who does it? Apparently, they were an obvious alt and I see how that makes people twist a bit but is it really that bad?

I feel like I should read into that because it means either my reads are sort of nice or I'm blatantly wrong and that nag at the back of my head? I want to know more about it. Like is the game really as simple as beeboy/Shirou being right on each other and Me/Dann/Implo/Taly being right on each other early? It could be and god do I want it to be.

[Keyleth]

Alisae, we should talk because your recent posting is making me feel a bit, odd? Like, I know I have a weird way of playing so I can respect unconventional means of town reading or replaying the game yet I don't get where your head is? Maybe that's on me, and I want it to be. Can you talk to me more on your reads because I see you have a good list of Poe where a lot of others have not yet you caught up so late were there like, any really good or bad posts that made you town or wolfbin someone?

[Keyleth]

My reads are mostly PoE I don't have a deep chongus case on anyone here other than my townreads

It's one of the reasons the game feels hard too

Can you list who exactly would towncore right now and send over? A few sentences would be great but totally not required if you wish to be lazy

[Keyleth]

Maybe this is a skill issue but Meuh's flip did not help me as much as I thought it would.

[Keyleth]

Maybe this is a skill issue but Meuh's flip did not help me as much as I thought it would.

Because wasn't Meuh a nearly consensus vote? I guess I'm just a tad confused on how this seemed to change so much. Bleh, words are hard.

[Keyleth]

dannflor because of defending against the ydrasse wagon upfront
implosion since i feel like their posts have not achieved or set a definitive stance, and what i do remember of them has largely gone with the flow in a gamestate that has been proven to be misguided

Can I ask, do you feel that ydrasse is a wolf and the way dann defended it is partner like, or are you just saying that the defense of the ydrasse wagon pinged you? If so, in what way? Because I was reading the wagon myself and I'm not seeing what you are.
What exactly are you expecting from town implosion in this case because I see your statement but I don't get the aha wolf! Part of the statement?

Willing to sheep the freedom vote though!

VOTE: Freedom

[Keyleth]

just didnt like that the first wagon of D2 was shunned when eveyrone else was just passively saying "iTs ArI'S sLOt"

I don't think I understand this part if you can rephrase it but I get the rest of your post, thank you.

[Keyleth]

majority of the people's daystart was just regurgitating a scumread on

ari

that never even went anywhere on D1 when a very non-resisted wagon flipped town.

it just gave the vibe that scum WANTED that trajectory, and anyone passively evaluating that was either bound to be misled as town, or just scum.

so the immediate rebuttal to the

ydrasse

wagon, even on a widely townread slot, gave me a ping because it seemed uncritical of the gamestate.

Given the trajectory everyone has taken, I don't think it's that odd to go to a common slot that was talked about. I think important context to add was Ari slot wasn't touched a lot due to a mix of a few people calling her obvious town and the fact it was Ari herself.

With Ari no longer in the slot, with deadline coming up there was no real room to breathe or explore the wolfread. Now that the most obvious player who got the most heat is gone, I would've been shocked if Ari slot didn't get some amount of pushback.

Now, do I know if scum wanted that and were pushing that angle? Maybe, I'm not really wise enough to think that hard considering how I play but that'd have to be loud voices, no? Do you consider Dann a loud presence?

Ydrasse is a slot a lot of people townread, may I ask why you gave dann flack for this but not myself, who I believe also defended the ydrasse wagon? At least, I think I did or would.

[Keyleth]

my interpretation of the gamestate may be wrong

but why is it obvious that

ydra

is town after the flip?

thats a better approach than to say the wagon is bad, because the former may imply TMI

B-but that isn't what I asked or said at all-

[Keyleth]

I now deflate like a balloon back to my corner of words are hard on the internet.

[Keyleth]

im not saying thats what you said, im telling you my thought process

dann

said there is not a coherent reason to scumread

ydra

and i figured it would be more effective to justify the townread rather than pushback on the wagon itself

I can't really speak for Dann on the matter but I'm trying to think of both in a context but I don't see why one is townier or wolfier than the other? Maybe I should go reread it again under new information. I jisut assumed stuff like this was playstyle clash because both accomplish the same goal it's just how you're doing it, no?

Given we plan on going spare I can see both worlds where you want your wolf teammate to be townread so they get spared but not connected because of how bad that looks flip wise ya know? However, I will sob if two of my strongest TR's are both wolves.

I know that's not what you're saying, but it's where my brain led. I like the conversation though cause if I'm wrong someone needs to bonk me.

[Keyleth]

i dont really consider

dann

a very loud presence but i dont know if that changes the situation

Maybe I'm undervaluing things and I need tothink more like you I just find it hard to wrap my brain around the wolfteam trying to spin a worldview of go to the next inactiveish slot when I don't think that has anything to do with it.

I now deflate like a balloon back to my corner of words are hard on the internet.

i am ACTIVELY trying to make this not happen :/

I know! It's more a bash at myself thing I think you're doing lovely. Trying to form all my thoughts through text is

hard

when I'm so used to video. It's a fun but aaa type of challenge.

[Keyleth]

Maybe inactive is the wrong word because I don't think most of the slots pre replacement minus alisae were inactive, like there was another to work with people were just super active so it seemed inactive by comparison?

[Keyleth]

Dunn, how do you feel about the thread divide right now? As a slot that is probably going to be spared regardless your input is rather important to me. I feel like I should've taken your Meuh read more.

[Keyleth]

The thread has always been divided, most players have not been agreeing with my reads on Meuh or on Shirou, and now people are changing their reads on Ydrasse as well. I've gotten no support on Beeboy

Can you remind me what your read is on Shirou? I assume you're wolfreading them given most of the thread seems to be townreading them.

Beeboy/Shirou have been budding pretty obviously so I didn't think that would be a wolf/wolf trend, do you disagree?

[Keyleth]

No I think Shirou is town. My memory is that most people disagreed with that.

Maybe I need to pay closer attention because I thought most people were townreading them. Can you refresh me on your beeboy wolfread?

[Keyleth]

I think Dann is now my top townread for silly reasons but they're here.

[Keyleth]

Tbh I am realizing basically my entire bottom tier at this point is replacements that I haven’t seen do anything strongly town yet (freedom, bingle, RCE)

This might be a hard question to answer, but would you consider yourself a biased person when it comes to mafia? Maybe it's hard to find reasons they're towny because of your read on the previous slots. It might help a little!

[Keyleth]

Tbh I am realizing basically my entire bottom tier at this point is replacements that I haven’t seen do anything strongly town yet (freedom, bingle, RCE)

This might be a hard question to answer, but would you consider yourself a biased person when it comes to mafia? Maybe it's hard to find reasons they're towny because of your read on the previous slots. It might help a little!

I feel kind of awkward about replacements in general in that way tbh. I’m certainly a “biased person” but like the read on the old person doesn’t become irrelevant when they’re replaced

I agree, I was just wondering if the only read was making it hard for you to find things enjoyable about the new slot, I know it's sort of happening with me and Ydra, or at least I've had that thought.

Given I thought Mandate really towny I find it hard for anything Ydra does to be scummy. So, when I townread her posts I find myself asking if I really do find them enjoyable. I was just thinking maybe the same could be happening but in reverse if that makes sense.

[Keyleth]

I think Dann is now my top townread for silly reasons but they're here.

i'd be interested in the silly reasons fwiw

I think you reaching out to Sakura, and rethinking your stances is what really sold me. Especially when you just asked her to talk. Yes, I'm well aware scum can and probably have done that in the past but it just pinged me and I really liked the way it happened, it seemed honest and not some planned out way to lure someone into a conversation. It's a weak reason but hey it's mine.

[Keyleth]

I wonder what the correct way to spare is. Not that I plan to have much say in the matter but from a gameplay standpoint is it better to spare a slot a lot of people are split on or just go from towny down the list? Although I guess that requires there to be universal townreads to begin with hm

[Keyleth]

It's hard to engage with a lot of posts that seem laced with history, feels like I need to rewire my brain to just trust what people are saying but given we're going the spare route that means I can just twiddle my thumbs and wait. I think?

[Keyleth]

hey

i remember you but i have no clue what game or in what context

Me at any sort of reunion or gathering

[Keyleth]

Does this make one of Bingle/RCEnigma a wolf? It sort of makes me want to move my vote but that's really greedy so I shall just sit here and just, ya know sit with this thought in my head. I share the opinion with Dann that I don't really understand the Implo townreads but my read on them has gotten a tad lower because of the public opinion. Maybe I shouldn't follow that though? It's hard because I like to trust overall say vs my own, especially in a game where people seem very familiar. Feeling like a double voter.


The downside of Taly being the first spare is I don't get to log on and smile at Taly posting noise. It's charming.

[Keyleth]

I really should just have not voted on either of these phases. aaaa

[Keyleth]

I'm gonna try not to get all gloomy that we got it wrong again because this game is hard! Kudos to whoever it is they're making my brain hurt. I'm gonna try to get over this little roadblock making me want to doubt all my reads all over again.

I want to wait for people to catch up cause this should be a group choice and it'd be rude to just power the vote through again. Now that, I do feel bad about.

[Keyleth]

Keyleth what exactly are your reads

You/Dann/Taly/Dunn/Ydra =we win?

Hopefully?

Maybe?

[Keyleth]

I mean I know you and Dann probably never get on the same page and if my track record read wise is anything to go by I am most likely incorrect but it is where my head is at if I just say what comes to mind. You are free to correct me.

[Keyleth]

I will not be hammering until we get consent from kyouko ^^

[Keyleth]

How do I heal?

[Keyleth]

Hey guys keep your heads up I know the game is hard and it's perfectly fine to doubt your reads, I've been in the same boat but don't beat yourself up over it. No one would want that. Take a break, drink some water. We got this!

[Keyleth]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

I feel like the pool is too big at the moment, we should restrict it more and therefore force scum to either get behind supporting their partner or compromise on leaving potential buddies out of the block

Dann is near if not my top townread, can you please show me why I'm wrong to think this way?

[Keyleth]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

I feel like the pool is too big at the moment, we should restrict it more and therefore force scum to either get behind supporting their partner or compromise on leaving potential buddies out of the block

Dann is near if not my top townread, can you please show me why I'm wrong to think this way?

my jeebies are heebied

Don't worry I plan on sending you after Taly!

[Keyleth]

I understand I am probably never going to be spared this game and I'm content with that and part of me has just wanted to, not really have a voice in this game cause my reads feel bad given I was on both of the wagons trying to show support but I also understand that's impossible.

The biggest problem is it feels like everyone here has some sort of history and trying to value my own reads over that history feels selfish?

[Keyleth]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

I feel like the pool is too big at the moment, we should restrict it more and therefore force scum to either get behind supporting their partner or compromise on leaving potential buddies out of the block

Dann is near if not my top townread, can you please show me why I'm wrong to think this way?

my jeebies are heebied

Don't worry I plan on sending you after Taly!

say it louder

I THINK WE SHOULD SPARE YDRASSE

[Keyleth]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

I feel like the pool is too big at the moment, we should restrict it more and therefore force scum to either get behind supporting their partner or compromise on leaving potential buddies out of the block

Dann is near if not my top townread, can you please show me why I'm wrong to think this way?

How is Dann more town than Taly, Kyouko/Beeboy, Sakura or Ydrasse/Mandate? Maybe consider Alisae in that pool too if you've a townread there.

I don't feel like he did anything particularly scummy but neither he did something particularly town and the fact that he's been trying to get spared since awhile ago as far as I remember doesn't make me comfortable towards him

If Dann flipped scum I would be 0% surprised because his play so far aligns decently with a theoretical scum wincon.

I've said that I've a "guilty until proven innocent mindset", so my question is why would I consider sparing Dann over the above four/five at least as long as we've other alternatives?

The best way I can explain my Dann townread is he's trying. That might sound stupid but I can see the effort in his reads and that he's trying to solve. He came out early with a lot of aggro posts and then it cooled down. I think what really clicked is his talks with Sakura, they don't seem like a pocket to me? I can openly see how the game is difficult and Dann doesn't seem to be faking it to me.

I understand Alisae has told me Dann is good at being a wolf and the whole deepwolf theory, so I'm not gonna push for him to be spared because I would feel awful to be wrong on it but, yes he wants to be spared. Why would a wolf be so open about that ya know? Feels like a wolf wouldn't try hard to be spared so openly.

If you think I'm wrong, please show me I'm open to be wrong. I am surprised you think Sakura, Beeboy, Alisae, are better in that regard.

[Keyleth]

I've said that I've a "guilty until proven innocent mindset"

I get you work that way, so can you show me why I'm silly for wanting to Spare Dann? You said he hasn't done anything really wolfy but he has the most points on my system then it's Taly and Ydra.

[Keyleth]

I guess I don't have the experience that you and others seem to have and maybe I would be thinking differently if I did but I don't. And, it isn't just effort, I get you can put in effort as a wolf you're expected to.

I just don't see Dan being fake and trying to make reads to put himself in a better spot? I read his interaction with Sakura and that looks pure to me. If you think I'm just wrong that's totally fair! Hopefully, you're just right and we win.

[Keyleth]

Words are hard, I wish I could explain the read better because I don't think I'm fully doing it justice but I'll wait for why you want to spare your group of people. I respect your opinion on the matter.

[Keyleth]

Nah with my recent track record I think you're the most likely to be right if town and somehow I'm town reading scum

To be honest I barely know what I'm saying at this point, this game just felt dead and going in a bad direction so if no one wanted to try to lead us to more helpful discussion I just thought I should volunteer for a bit

I'm acting confident but I'm really not, I just finished a town game where my top town read was scum. I'm just putting up a tough/confident front like always.

I do genuinely suspect Dann though but giving a detailed explanation would take me too much effort so maybe I will save it when I feel like I've no choice but to do it.

Hey it's okay! I was on both of the wagons so how do you think I feel?

I'm perfectly fine with you trying to lead and see where we can go with it because we need to do something and if you ever need a sanity check I will help if you want to take the offer. I know the whole what if mafia is a thing but you get what I mean!

I thought my mental of everyone is innocent until I think otherwise would work but it really is making this game hard because everyone is playing well to me. Part of me just wants to not think about the hard part and assume mafia can't be the townist slot I think of and go down that list but I also understand how damning that can be.

[Keyleth]

The problem is also that I'm not sure you're town so I'm naturally replying to you with some degree of hostility and sorry if I'm wrong once again

I also respect your opinion on the matter.

I get it, I was sort of expecting to be wolfread after what happened early D1 with people finding my posting and personality weird. I'm sort of just content with it because I was never expecting to be spared to begin with.

There's no harm in taking about things though and you can just ignore me if you think I'm really wolfy.

[Keyleth]

I didn't think you were rude at all but please get some rest and try not to stress and enjoy yourself. Have a lovely day/evening Shirou.

[Keyleth]

Dunn what's your personal read on Dann? Am I crazy?

[Keyleth]

I for one, will miss Dunn.

[Keyleth]

Isn't Dunn just town? It feels a bit cruel to play like this if he isn't.

[Keyleth]

Dunn was town! What a relief, now we can spare Taly! It was such a delight to play with you!

VOTE: Taly

I'm seeing a lot of people saying they want to spare me and I'm like, sort of flattered and shocked did not expect to want to be spared. Maybe this means I get NK'd? That'd be even more flattering. I think ss is a lovely spare her catchup was amazing and if that is a wolf? Hats off.

[Keyleth]

Goodbye Taly I’ll miss you make sure to drink lots of water!

Make sure to hear each other out everyone we can win this by working as a team! I know the early game was rough but I think we’re on the right track!

[Keyleth]

Thank you for carrying me guys you were all ever so wonderful to play with and great job bringing it home. Amazing work all around. That goes for wolves too!