JOAT uPick | FIN!

[light_ganski]

Bleep bloop comrades

[light_ganski]

I'll be V/LA til tomorrow evening due to work then I'll be here

[light_ganski]

Cool. Before you go are you scum?

No. Are you?

[light_ganski]

I have just this to say.

I am not a fan of unions.

In fact I am a greedy capitalist.

Therefore the true heroes of this game are the union busters, and I am therefore declaring I am a union buster.

Unions are corrupt, they only benefit the corrupt union leaders at the top and force us members to bear them a tax they call union fees to be a "member", they argue about collective bargaining to ensure us better treatment. But name the last time a union really helped u out with your issue?

None.

Therefore down with unions. Individual bargaining for the win.

Btw before I go let's eliminate the day one scumclaim! VOTE: Firebringer

[light_ganski]

28 pages in just over a day, fuuuuuuck me

this catchup is gonna be slow but I'll get there comrades

[light_ganski]

catchup page 1-5

i am striking against the capitalist overlords by refusing to produce content without compensation

based and breadpilled

agree w the person against day one massclaim bcos I'd prefer us not to give scum the pick of the best roles to kill off

bell's RVS claim (11) seems fine tho ig? idk why people are commenting on this in particular in terms of reads

lady terminally offline sounds like me when I was newbtown AND actually trying to effort (which wasn't often so good for u)

firebringer outed themself as cringe and capitalcucked i remember that part

the next relevant posts are continuing discussion abt bell's softclaim, agree with HST's (52) and disagree with RH's (56), that seems like a weirdly strong scumread considering we are talking about a role madness game and this is RVS. i guess i could see an argument for bell fishing but i don't buy thats whats going on here
continuing from this I don't understand RH's reasoning in (62) at all? why is this a "trivially confirmably scummy" ability pls explain if u haven't already in the posts I haven't read yet

(68) i agree with ircher re miller claims but we *haven't had a miller claim yet*. this is common sense though so saying it doesn't mean much

lots of RVS/RPS fluff I'll sort thru once I have more than like 2 reads

Comrades, while unions are essential for an equitable work environment, it is still fundamentally a capitalist system! Our union is only the beginning! We can seize the means of production and establish an anarcho-syndicalist council to distribute resources democratically!

I salute you comrade

LTO's (110) and (121) also read newbie town putting in effort <3

[light_ganski]

I'll be V/LA til tomorrow evening due to work then I'll be here

Will you be having fun?

sadly not.

[light_ganski]

(125) bad vote from joyboy

taking note of the meta read of pooky (127)

i appreciate the commitment to the bit from many people in this thread

VERY strong townread on LTO right now (152), like i don't think this post is *good logic considering the range of metas on the site* and i cannot remember the number of times i've come a cropper because of the "this play isn't helpful so it's scummy" mindset, but in someone completely raw to the site? this is very townie

(156) I want to nulltown pooky but idk if it's just because of tripping up scumreading this type of play before (see above)

161 is a little sus from bell

I actually must sleep so imma stop here for now

[light_ganski]

catch up continued: up to pg12

bell v pooky in the first few pages looks SvT. that's gut though
(203) - verbose self meta is
(210) - why is bell encouraging dayvigs

agree with titus (237) re the vibes from joyboy. need to look at the broccoli again up until that point
243 - I don't like bell's vibes up to this point, but I feel like I'm being stupid about bell's roleclaim?
247/248 - yh millers should claim D1 and bell didn't claim miller so why are people calling him a miller?
irrelevant anyway bcos I think bell is the scummiest so far - 251 and 252 - again about his own meta - doesn't imo do anything to progress the game

lots of theory discussion with the newbie which is fine and good but also not really worth discussing here
dunnstrall's q in 261 is something I'd also want answering bcos joyboy looks
nothing wrong with dunnstrall's posts per se but RH complimenting his pushes seems very premature
lemon tangerine seems v low energy
don't get bell's paranoia list in 273
also trying to get to grips with firebringer's energy, not sure where the vibes are at with them but I think it's giving town
if bell is maf 282 could be distancing laplacian before pivoting to attack dunnstrall on the same grounds? like that's mostly a vibe read tho
293 seems what I'd expect to follow on from LTO's opening as town

this seems like a fine vote based on the first 12 pages VOTE: bell
standby for more, comrades

[light_ganski]

There are several slots who did the "roleplay" or "conversational silly" style posting:

Light_Ganski (Lightly)

from me, it isn't roleplay

[light_ganski]

That’s the second time I’ve been blind voted this game.

You know you could accidentally hammer someone and impact the game state negatively, right?

I *did* check it wasn't a hammer first, thank you

[light_ganski]

catchup page 13-??

lemon tangerine's posts here (307 thru 311) are pure fluff and setup spec but there's been a lot of fluff so far
maid cafe is irritating me , not the roleplay I'll allow that but so far I'm getting "roleplay to disguise that i'm not playing the game"
ig 316 implies townhunting from lemon but like. I could type that and post it and go back to doing nothing and it wouldn't show anything ygm?
318 is a bad vote but idk if its scummy bad or just bad bad
its hard to read ppl when it feels like half of them are still in rvs and half of them are serious
idk where relativistic is getting their lemon read from in 324 bcos I've seen nothing actually town indicative from them so far

pooky's scumreads in 349 seem. mostly fine. agree re bell and joyboy. wld like to understand the relativistic TR though. god that page was contentless.

352 thru 354 from joyboy are bad again. LTO is a terrible push here and this feels like trying to get a rise out of the new to the site player to fabricate a scumread
god joyboy is really bad. agree w pooky bear that bell v joyboy could be theatre because the interaction between 355 and 368 seems very inorganic

[light_ganski]

think pooky bear is town so far btw (page 15)

[light_ganski]

this is taking longer than I'd hoped

I think reading (381) as a perspective slip seems maybe a stretch, but it fits w my bell scumread? like maybe bell is scummy *despite* it not *because* of it
and i think 407 is townie reasoning from pooky but its giving me tunnelly gut feelings
firebringer feels meh at this stage, so does turtle
pooky is town, lto is town
I think pooky and bell are tying themselves in knots here

Either ability.
I should have asked for a day vig.

Bold of you to think you would actually get it.

I asked. Didn't get it

441 from laplacian - I don't like this - the roleplay is covering up a poor scumread based on setup spec discussion a very null player
bell cld be scum, so cld laplacian.
titus looks townie AND understands the point about not limming newbs on day one (446)
PLUS I'm mindmelding titus rn on (448)

still not loving maid cafe - if any of the bell votes are distancing I feel like it could be this one (451)
also mindmeld relativistic on (468)
lemon nectarine can be townie for now too, I've got better vibes now. firebringer too I think I'm getting a better gut feeling on

got a solid townblock of [LTO, pooky, titus] and also townreading [lemon, RH, firebringer]
turtle cld be nulltown too
scum is bell, joyboy, with maybe laplacian and maid cafe
still need to sort the others but setup spec (:puke:) would suggest only maybe one more scum (this is page 20)

joyboy's readslist (567) isn't great and if ppl think bell is easier to sort later it might be worth voting this instead
tbf I'd be happy to lim either rn
gonna admit i'd forgotten this game had drew in it

laplacian and joyboy's interactions in 576-579-580 are a great example of scum generating meaningless content and I might just VOTE: joyboy this isn't a reprieve for bell I just think this bread looks tastier rn

[light_ganski]

Titus is so obv town it hurts.

[light_ganski]

maybe maid cafe is null and I need to overlook the roleplaying better

[light_ganski]

the problem with showing up late is half the points in your catch up are things people point out on the next page of your catchup

[light_ganski]

lemon aubergine's readslist is fine (631)

646 is the first laplacian post I actually like the reads make sense and I don't see scum making this at all hmmmmmmmmm
i'll have to re-sort you

relativistic's reads also look town minded (653) even if very vibes based

the perspective shift on laplacian means I'm gonna have to go back over that interaction between him and joyboy
i think ircher looks null for now. I can try and sort this later on
sakura hana is another one I forgot was in this game. and hu tao for that matter.

[light_ganski]

bell's RVS claim (11) seems fine tho ig? idk why people are commenting on this in particular in terms of reads

if your role is inherently useless why would you ever claim so if you're town

hmmmm

[light_ganski]

Spoiler:

I think Laplacian is off

. Portrait I tend to find scummy.
I naturally hate Hu Tao's current play.

Titus is off

: They're sheeping saying they have multiple theories but didn't answer when I asked them what theories they had or how me dying would help with that or why I seemed like a good elimination based on a perspective slip. I know they're weird, but this is veering into burden of proficiency and they are not jumping over it.
Pooky: BOP. they have one page left.
Ircher: has their own excuses see recent page. It's unclear to me if they're choosing a political landscape, there have been a lot of players that have approached this game with really poor takes so I'm finding it hard to figure out which ones I should actually BOP and which one's I should not. Ircher said it was 50/50 controlling for roll numbers, so there's a big question mark toward why they lean scum.
Relativisitic: Same, leaned scum into a caution preach into you're right Dunn!
Already wrote about Dunnstral and my mixed feelings of them correcting for their interpretation and being generally accurate. It's weird seeing someone cut through the bullshit and articulate themselves better than I could. Maybe they're informed, maybe they had a good opening.
Lemon: Their positioning is unique, it doesn't come off as scummy to me. Some of their approach reminds me specifically of townie things I've seen players or myself do in the past. I'm not sure what advantage they gain by approaching people's reads of me by saying that Pooky's reasoning sucks and changing position on it.
Luffy: I dunno. My patience is running out but I'm not really reading into them. there's only so much focus I can have and they're just kind of randomly voting people.

It's normal for me not to focus on everyone.

FB: Characterized my play correctly, their movement or engagement and how they're engaging feels very similar to their town game.

Spoiler:

doctor drew is background and I'm just annoyed again. But I dunno.

LTO is slightly off,

how the game is engaging with them, how they're engaging with the game. I don't understand why they're drawing people into treating them like they're new, I don't understand why their attention is being placed where it is or intentions. I tend not to let players go by that fill in that sort of "aw shucks, I'm new at this" and "I am a person who hunts, look at me and my statements that show I am hunting and I am relatively straightforward, I have nothing to hide" stereotype that doesn't actually mean anything or make them more scum than anyone else. Hell, they just end up being town. But it's nagging me.
Maid Cafe: I'm just trying to figure out if they're scum off to the side being amused or town curious and trying to correct for personality.

Rather, I can't decide.

HSP: Have not looked at them deeply, their initial posts seemed kind of vacuous and unfamiliar to me. They;re developing into something moe traditional and easier to read, but

I haven't been focusing n them.

SK: Needs to post more. They do a thing each time they're here. But not very fast. It's minimally responsive, but it doesn't hit wrong.

see I'm struggling with bell
bcos on my first skim read I wanted to say this looked sort of okay, and I also see the town mindset in sorting between the genuine reads on you and ones that look scummy/fabricated etc.
but going over these thoughts and actually thinking about them I just feel. uneasy.
like I also understand null reading a lot of people early on. and that

seems

to be the angle with how bell is looking at a LOT of the people pushing him, what with the number of times he says stuff like "i haven't been focussing on them" and "theyre off" or "they're slightly off" in these posts (I'll bold the lines I'm talking about in the spoiler).
but bell had been super active up until this point and I feel like in that position there comes a point where you have to stick your neck out and say "okay some of these people I'm null reading have to be town just by PoE". like, I understand you can't have the energy to sort everyone all of the time (hell I'm still 20 pages behind), but these two posts are very very hedge-y
and imho that's not a good sign

but even after all that i keep getting tripped up by the thought that I might be reacting to bell's playstyle and not his plays

Spoiler:

@Pooky any opinions on anyone else yet?

Townreads:

Firebringer
Titus
Laplacian
RelativisticHarmony
HST
LTO

Townleans:
Dunnstral
Lemon
Ircher

Null:
Sakura

Scumlean:
Doctor Drew
Hu Tao
Joyboy

Definitely Scum:
Bell

This is a fake list right? Can I ask why you have a scum lean on me when I had NAI posts so far?

wow, I hate this

(729) is a better read from hu tao though and I'll allow beating me to the laplacian TR because of the meta ref
(741) has me going in completely the opposite direction though
hu tao's whole catch up on page thirty is very meh.

Spoiler:

This post is going to be a long one, and I'm going to be making an effort to be detailed. Making this case is also helping me settle my feelings about Bell overall. I'm not sure where exactly the me that is writing the closing paragraph of this post will end up on his alignment, but the me that is starting it thinks Bell is a member of the mafia.

Assumptions made:

-This game contains at most (honestly, exactly) 4 members of the mafia faction
-There is only one mafia faction
-Any potential third parties are non-killing in their roles OR can win with other factions
-Rule 5 of the Game-Specific Rules exists to enforce the above assumptions
-Rule 6 of the Game-Specific Rules exists because at least one role like Bell's claim exists.
-Rule 2 of the Game-Specific Rules in Bell's case does not apply, as his role PM contradicts it.
-The primary objective of the Town faction is to find Mafia
-The primary objective of the Mafia faction is to stay alive (I.E. this game does not have roles that make mafia want to die early)

Before I start citing specific posts and examples, I did want to clarify that Bell's emotions are genuine, and that frustration is a valid thing to feel when being wagoned. However, I do not feel that frustration is something that is unique to one alignment. Frustration as mafia being hunted down is a very common thing, and it is what I am arguing is occurring.


My argument for Bell being a member of the mafia faction in this game takes several different points into consideration.

Firstly, Bell's lack of meaningful scum hunting (or reads) and recurring focus back to the issue of his emotional state.
Secondly, Bell's evolving claims of his role.
Thirdly, Bell's use of a straw man argument to deflect arguments made against him.
Fourthly, Bell's use of discrediting towards his accusers.

Bell's lack of scum hunting and recurring focus back to the issue of his emotional state

Bell as of the writing of this post has 106 posts in the game. In them, I can identify exactly zero explicit reads of a player. I can see a "What's wrong with Joyboy" in post 569, and I can see a "Hu Tao is doing nothing" in post 586. There's what appears to be a town-leaning read of Sakura Hana for indeterminate reasons in post 591, and even that is weaseled out of by denoting that it's mostly applying other people's opinions. 651 appears to be the start of a mafia read of Laplacian, but once again, there's already an out provided in the same post of "that might just be because it’s day 1". At no point is there a read expressed with any conviction whatsoever. Bell is not voting anyone new since post 70, where he voted Relativistic Harmony. Bell deos eventually expand upon his reasons for this vote in post 358, which is never followed up again after that.
However.....
Of the current 106 posts Bell has made. Take a guess on how many revolve around his reported emotional state and "ease of being read" or the back-and-forth that caused it? Come up with your guess, then go ahead and reveal the answer.
Before the "perspective slip" post:

15 or so

After the "perspective slip" post:

20 or so

And I was somewhat generous on erring on the side of "not" if a post was borderline for counting or not. That means that of the 106 posts Bell has made, and being generous,

33.01%, or about one third of his total posting

is about this issue instead of any effort to discern alignments whatsoever.

Bell's evolving claims of his role

Bell claims in his second post, post 11, that he has an ability that takes both himself and another player out of the game for one game day. He then asks for people to share if they could possibly gain from that ability. Then, after some pressure from PookyTheMagicalBear and others, in post 410 a claim comes out about a second ability that allows him to post after he dies. Note that due to special rule 6, we know at least one ability of this sort exists in the game; so even without any sort of additional mod-given safety information, a mafia-aligned Bell can claim this sort of role without being contradicted by the rules.

Bell's use of a straw man argument

Titus claimed that eliminating Bell was better than a generic Town role. Bell then turned around to claim and argue this as "Titus is claiming that an elimination on Bell is better than hitting Mafia" instead of Titus' actual argument.
We can see this interaction starting in post 544, where Titus states that at a game play level specifically, eliminating Bell is less of a downside. At no point does Titus espouse anything other than a mafia read of Bell here. Titus does, in this post, note that she also has a mafia read of Joyboy, and that Joyboy personally may be slightly more mafia to her.
We then see the perspective flip specifically, in post 564, where Bell asks Titus why killing town is "better than letting them live" which is a complete straw man argument, and NOT what Titus' argument entailed.

Bell's constant discrediting of myself, without calling me Mafia

Bell has, at several points in the game, attempted to discredit my ability to play the game rationally, but has not once called me mafia, or even seemingly entertained the idea that I could be mafia pushing him.
In post 171: "LTO’s approach is hard to differentiate between hard nosed because they’re role playing a hard nose or an actual hard nose. "
In post 238: "The only thing that is slightly eyebrow raising is the way you’re noticing pooky doubling down. The wording feels strange. But there’s not much to be said about it. Other than that it feels vaguely round about."
Again, in post 239: "In other words I was asking those questions to gauge if you were genuine or not."
Post 249 is the closest I can discern to a read of me, wherein I am called "Honorary Scum" for..... Posting a double negative? This is never followed up or explained further, nor acted upon with a vote.
Post 419, where Bell notes to "You guys better correct him because I’m at work. *pissed*" (Bell then fixed the gender but at no point even stops to think this could be scum taking advantage of him?)
Post 422, where Bell claims I "failed to realize everyone has multiple abilities I.e., a joat, jack of all trades. Etc etc." (Which was NOT my point, and once again, why couldn't I be mafia pushing this incorrectly?)
Again in the second half of that post, "There are few explanations for why they decided to go down this road. That don’t involve unfamiliarity with a core component of the game." What explanations are these? How many times do these questions expire into the void? A lot.
Post 426, where he just directly calls my reasoning "really bad reasoning." I hate to hammer this point, but why is it explicitly bad reasoning and not just, you know, me being a member of the Mafia exploiting him?
Finally in post 591, we get the weakest "If you're town" fadeaway line. As best I can tell this is the closest to evaluating me Bell has ever gotten. is it followed up at any point? We all know the answer to that one by now.
In post 648, Bell pushes back against calling me quick or intelligent with "Wasn’t LTO the player that said they thought I was scum because I claimed a miller-like role." (Which was not me, as bell then notes in....)
Post 649, where Bell calls me... "Having my own issues" and "getting up to speed"


Hi, post-writing Lady here. I started this post hoping to clarify my thoughts, and I think I pretty much have with a solid mafia read on Bell. Note that I wrote this before the most recent burst of activity, so some of my points may have additional clarity or items provided to judge Bell on based upon his most recent set of posts.

I would like feedback. (No, Bell, not from you, go do the task you're procrastinating on)
Am I playing with tunnel vision, or with blinders on? Is this me reading too much into things?

more town + effort points for LTO
this is a decent case imho

okay hu tao's readslist in (787) is much better, discounting the lemon read which I don't rlly get
don't mind lto being sheeped by rh but I'll take note of it (790)
drew what don't you buy about LTO being town specifically (in your post 794)?

(804) seems very NAI from drew so i don't see why bell feels the need to immediately point it out as bad
firebringer is still fine ig.
(829) - yh it is convenient isn't it. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
firebringer's criticism of the way bell is talking abt his roles is right on, comrades
laplacian's (844) is good
maid cafe coming in and saying drew deserves pressure is completely counterproductive if she actually wants to pressure drew, who hasn't been that active up until this point anyways. it also tonally reads like "hey everyone look at the dead cat" and it's clashing w my earlier desire to relook at my SR on her
I still think lemon cat is okay
feel like the claim is unnecessary though
i can understand RH jumping from bell to joyboy bcos i did so for similar reasons (890)

[light_ganski]

@
Maid Cafe (hydra of MariaR and Beeboy)
Doctor Drew
Sakura Hana
light_ganski


I want to know what you think of Bell's play so fa in this game and where you lean on his alignment

think bell looks like maf
i've said some of the things I don't like abt his plays in my catchup posts

[light_ganski]

I think lemon v titus is TvT

[light_ganski]

161 is a little sus from bell

I actually must sleep so imma stop here for now

What did you find suspicious about 161?

it gives deflection. "ooooh focus on someone else I'm gonna look scummy either way". not a strong read ofc but it stood out to me early on

[light_ganski]

Or maybe 600s was before I started posting more, so nevermind

yup I've been trying to catch up in order, you weren't very active at that point

[light_ganski]

Or maybe 600s was before I started posting more, so nevermind

yup I've been trying to catch up in order, you weren't very active at that point

Yep I was wrong there. Thoughts on Dunn? Also thoughts on RL based on them saying they thought your catchup post was towny?

going thru my catchup I thought relativistic looked fine, put them in my townbloc early on but they didn't stand out to me that much?
their post on my catchup felt like it made sense in the context of my reflecting on my laplacian read

ISOing dunnstrall, he feels very very meh. probably why I can't remember remarking on him in my catchup. he's asked a couple of game advancing questions which is fine, and he's made a couple points that are "this is true but also obvious" (eg. his comment on lemon's claim in 897, the comment on LTO's bell case), but beyond that his ISO doesn't really have much content in it? like I can divulge like 3 of his reads (lto town which is obvious anyway, joyboy scum which doesnt feel difficult, and saying ircher seems weird). there isn't anything that stands out as explicitly scummy but it seems very for 50 pages in it's not like he's been absent

[light_ganski]

I've still got to properly look at the last ten or so pages (like in detail)

[light_ganski]

I'm trying to power thru the whole thread this evening though

[light_ganski]

VC 1.8

In Ancient Greece, Western thought about labor and laborers began to take shape. Mental labor was valued far above physical, and Greece had a robust system of chattel slavery for manual labor. Their attitudes toward slaves and manual labor seeped into their attitudes toward laborers who were free and the work they did, as well.

Relativistic Harmony (4):

Ircher, Dunnstral, Maid Cafe, Titus

Maid Cafe (3):

lemon.tangerine, PookyTheMagicalBear, Doctor Drew

Dunnstral (2):

Hu Tao, Holy Spirit Turtle

Doctor Drew (2):

Firebringer

Bell (2):

light_ganski, Joyboy

Joyboy (1):

Laplacian

PookyTheMagicalBear (1):

Sakura Hana

Not Voting (3):

LadyTerminallyOffline, Bell, Relativistic Harmony

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to eliminate

Deadline: February 11, Midnight US Eastern Time

countdown: (expired on 2024-02-11 21:00:00)

Mod Notes

• If you see an error in this or any other vote count please let me know
  
• 

@fferylt: my vote is on joyboy, not bell

[light_ganski]

not sure how much I'll be able to catchup tonight

[light_ganski]

can someone tl;dr last night because I'm so confused about who's claimed what

[light_ganski]

Hu Tao was redirected Drew
Drew was redirected Hu Tao
Actions targeting Hu Tao was redirected to target Bell.

Lemon was targeting light but instead targeted Bell.
Titus was targeting Hu Tao but instead targeted Bell

Lap targeted Hu Tao, Drew, and Lemon. However, since action targeting Hu Tao was redirected to target Bell instead, Lap actually targeted Bell, Drew, and Lemon.

Lap received something. Thus, whatever affected Bell was not a lightning rod.

Unsolved: Why was Lemon redirected from Light to Bell?

Titus watcher result: Lap and lemon targeted Bell.
lemon was redirected from Light to Bell.
Titus intended watch was Hu Tao.
Drew was redirected to Hu Tao and viceversa. (But they had no actions anyway).
Titus should've seen the Redirector or the Bus Driver unless they are Ninja, as they are the ones targeting Bell.
Which means either Lap or lemon is the scum we're looking for and is lying (again unless Ninja)

give me a second to get my head round this

[light_ganski]

Every single action last night besides fractional ones went to Bell.

You claimed you watched Bell, right? If your action goes after mine you should see everyone who used a N1 action then.

YW

Why would you do this?

Why not? :^)

are you serious?

[light_ganski]

surely this is a policy lim VOTE: maid cafe

[light_ganski]

I for one, consider it a great success

fucking really

[light_ganski]

It’s not policy to me, but Maid, I do need reasoning, not a troll joke.

As I said, picked a high volume target, and thought it would be funny.

please tell me what this means

[light_ganski]

I dont have any idea why Maria would decide to voluntarily out that she did this except maybe to deflect away from Hu Tao but she's not even doing that so shrug who knows maybe she wants to get killed today for some reason.

wait is this jester? is that even allowed/not considered bastard these days?

[light_ganski]

I'd like Pooky and Ircher to fill in my blanks here. It doesn't even need to be a SPECIFIC role claim, just if they acted or not and who their initial target was.

I forgot Light. Light as well.

I acted, strong-willed gunsmith, HolySpiritTurtle has a gun

[light_ganski]

If roles didn't exist in this game, and I had to shoot somebody within the next few minutes, Light would be on my short list. There's surprisingly little in the volume of posting, but this could be a play style mismatch with me.

More lack of time tbh, I spent day one trying to catch up between shifts

[light_ganski]

I also will jump on the band wagon about why Light wouldn't soft a guilty on Turtle

In Light's shoes, it would have been an extremely hard guilty, not a soft one, but regardless, to do nothing with it is ????????

In a non-role madness setup this wld be accurate but I came out of the night imagining cops and vigs everywhere, the redirection or whatever that was kinda put paid to that

[light_ganski]

I'm not lying. There's no reason for me to come into the thread and make up some sort of wild lie like that.

Do I know why Ircher's action went through? No. All I know is I used a lighting rod causing every action to be on Bell. Maybe action order messes with that but shrug.jpg

Can you claim your lightning rod ability again? What modifiers does it have and why did it not show up in watcher results?

All actions go to the person I visit. The only modifier involved is not relevant (as in doesn't matter to the issue at hand) why it did not show up the watcher? your guess is as good as mine.

I still think we are missing something if this doesn't show up to watcher?

[light_ganski]

bell is never scum w maid
if maid flips town though I'd look there again

[light_ganski]

Relativistic Harmony (9):

Ircher, Maid Cafe, Joyboy, Doctor Drew, Titus, LadyTerminallyOffline, Dunnstral, Sakura Hana, Laplacian

Dunnstral (2):

Hu Tao, Holy Spirit Turtle

Maid Cafe (1):

lemon.tangerine

Joyboy (1):

light_ganski

Doctor Drew (1):

Firebringer

Not Voting (4):

Bell, Relativistic Harmony, PookyTheMagicalBear

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to eliminate

low resistance wagon on scum = probably multiple scum bussed
I believe LTO is never ever scum so I believe her town-confirm on joyboy (as much as I don't want to)
I TR titus and laplacian
probably at least two scum and maybe all three/four in {ircher, maid cafe, doctor drew, dunnstral, sakura hana}
need to narrow this down but maid cafe is definitely the foremost target for today

[light_ganski]

unless lemon aubergine was lying about targetting me as titus thought earlier but if the redirect is actually a lightning rod that doesn't make as much sense. but then why did ircher not resolve on bell?

[light_ganski]

VOTE: HST

LETS GOOOOOO

is this a guilty claim yay or nay

[light_ganski]

VOTE: HST

LETS GOOOOOO

is this a guilty claim yay or nay

I'm sticking on maria until we get a proper answer on this btw

[light_ganski]

unless lemon aubergine was lying about targetting me as titus thought earlier but if the redirect is actually a lightning rod that doesn't make as much sense. but then why did ircher not resolve on bell?

the better question is why would i lie and target my townread with a killing item?

no I believe you were honest. I wanted to consider titus's alternate explanation too tho because it better explains ircher's lack of redirection

[light_ganski]

I would like the gun check player and the player that was gun checked to explain more. About why they were checked, what they think about the check who they think is and isn’t scum with reasoning etc.

In a game like this it’s a little tricky who is going to show up with a gun. But I think the information would be valuable to solving and getting another scum kill.

Assuming the explanations don’t check out, which they might.

hi. I checked HST because I was inclined yesterday to lean her town but it wasn't a strong read per se and I wanted a chance at a confirmation. when I didn't get that, I initially wanted to hold the result and observe HST further but by the time I was home everyone was trying to work out precisely how maid/maria's terrible ability had fucked up the night actions and I didn't wanna withhold information in solving that

(still think that night action is most likely scum btw)

[light_ganski]

hmm

I still think if we get maria today that confirms bell as town (bell looks better in isolation today but the other half of my TR there is basically just my maria SR and that scum!maria redirecting all those actions onto bell wld be potentially gamethrowing)

[light_ganski]

/if they were buddies was how that sentence was supposed to end

[light_ganski]

Relativistic Harmony (9):

Ircher, Maid Cafe, Joyboy, Doctor Drew, Titus, LadyTerminallyOffline, Dunnstral, Sakura Hana, Laplacian

Dunnstral (2):

Hu Tao, Holy Spirit Turtle

Maid Cafe (1):

lemon.tangerine

Joyboy (1):

light_ganski

Doctor Drew (1):

Firebringer

Not Voting (4):

Bell, Relativistic Harmony, PookyTheMagicalBear

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to eliminate

low resistance wagon on scum = probably multiple scum bussed
I believe LTO is never ever scum so I believe her town-confirm on joyboy (as much as I don't want to)
I TR titus and laplacian
probably at least two scum and maybe all three/four in {ircher, maid cafe, doctor drew, dunnstral, sakura hana}
need to narrow this down but maid cafe is definitely the foremost target for today

You thinking there are 4 mafia in this list is not believable to me. You are not looking at what transpired last day to get reads on these people.

I don't like this

I don't see what you, from a town perspective, wld gain from choosing to ignore the words "I need to narrow this down"

[light_ganski]

I didnt believe the cop at first

But its confusing because I think I believe HST's counterclaim less

[light_ganski]

tbh we can just kill maid and let this self resolve

Yeah, can we just do this please?

[light_ganski]

If we have a path to this self resolving we still need to lim maria anyway

[light_ganski]

And I'd bet on maria being scum more than I'd bet on either of these claims being honest

[light_ganski]

Okay if either of you is town fake claiming, can you come out with it now?

[light_ganski]

(That's at HST and Hu Tao)

[light_ganski]

If I’m fakeclaiming a reflector with a guilty on me, then I’m scum lol.

Yh that *should* have been mostly directed at hutao

[light_ganski]

Ohhhhhh that makes sense now I think I completely missed the fake slip

[light_ganski]

I think that significantly raises the chance that this is a fake claim. I'm not saying HST *can't* be a scum cop variant role or just fake claiming but like. Occam's razor wld suggest she she was being honest rather than going out of her way to do all that setup for a fake claim that might not even be an appropriate counterclaim

[light_ganski]

/hutao fake claiming that is

[light_ganski]

VOTE: Hu Tao

If you have an actual reason to fake claim this

Tell now

[light_ganski]

//I'm still completely up for limming maria btw but I'd rather get any scum than no scum

[light_ganski]

Also, Bell's Day 2 has been better?...ish?...Ya idunno lol. I hardly read D2. I was checked out because I wanted to be irrelevant and not play my hand too much. I mean now the game is just over so /shrug

bell is town if maria is scum. which is why bell is town. If somehow maria flips town at some point, bell is very very sus again

[light_ganski]

but I dont think thatll happen

[light_ganski]

Light literally scumslipped and you're letting her get passed for it

Lolwhat

Pls pray tell say where I supposedly scumslipped

[light_ganski]

Okay if either of you is town fake claiming, can you come out with it now?

VOTE: Hu Tao

If you have an actual reason to fake claim this

Tell now

TMI?

This is possible

wait you cannot actually mean this.

if you're serious here thanks for outing dunnstral as your buddy

[light_ganski]

{hu tao, dunnstral, maria}

it can't be that simple can it?

[light_ganski]

Hi. Dunn is town

LMFAO after you two got caught fabricating a scumslip together!

you don't even have the dignity to distance

[light_ganski]

Lto, I'll get Nectarines actually. Final answer.

Titus copied my weak doctoring hider and targeted light. Can't be redirected Which makes this a guilty.

Also uh. Hi...

please tell me you're telling the truth, because I am town

[light_ganski]

so that's redirection or roleblock+murder

[light_ganski]

and you've said it can't be redirection

[light_ganski]

so that's roleblock+murder, or cabd is just fakeclaiming (but LTO was almost certainly town...)

[light_ganski]

VOTE: cabd

if this is a fakeclaim rather than a roleblock+murder tell us now

[light_ganski]

I was lightning rodded again I think.

I was paranoia copped and Rick rolled.
I was also given a strongman shot.

Another thing also happened but I’m waiting for verification of some stuff before I’ll talk about it.

as if this game couldn't get more confusing

[light_ganski]

Oh yeah also

OMG GUYS I GOT GUILTY ON BELL!!!!!!!!

well that "I got paranoia copped" was a convenient fuckin claim

HST did u know your cop wld be paranoid or has bell pulled that out of his ass

[light_ganski]

(like are you loud cop or smthng)

[light_ganski]

Yeah lights confo scum and we are just try Harding for the last one today before they get to shoot me.

yh this is a straight up fakeclaim. LTO had me completely fuckin fooled too hats off to her

[light_ganski]

I was gonna say maria and dunnstral were the only legit targets today, maria for the scummy af claim and dunnstral for the associatives w hu tao and trying to frame a scumslip on me when his buddy got wagonned yesterday

if HST has a legit guilty on bell idefk
if cabd doesnt explain why they're fakeclaiming theyre also

[light_ganski]

I want to bang my head off the wall

[light_ganski]

VOTE: cabd

if this is a fakeclaim rather than a roleblock+murder tell us now

pls answer this before anything else. I need to go to work I can think when I'm in later and ik if this was a fakeclaim or a roleblock

[light_ganski]

Oh yeah also

OMG GUYS I GOT GUILTY ON BELL!!!!!!!!

well that "I got paranoia copped" was a convenient fuckin claim

HST did u know your cop wld be paranoid or has bell pulled that out of his ass

They claimed paranoid cop in response to getting gunsmith guiltied by you.

okay thank u I needed a reminder of that one

so its prob still you and maria

[light_ganski]

L-1? (If I've miscounted and that was the hammer RIP)

Claiming N4 archaeologist

[light_ganski]

Can get a guaranteed scum on D5

[light_ganski]

Not lying, but if I were, it would become apparent

[light_ganski]

good game everyone, congrats to town

thanks also to ffery for modding <3

[light_ganski]

I realised after the first couple of flips I made a boo boo by not being more... "creative" with my role choices

[light_ganski]

also I must give massive kudos to MariaR for keeping going when it was so dire <3

[light_ganski]

I am so sorry to my scum team for my play this game I feel like I let a lot of ya down. Probably should've killed Drew last night but I figured he'd go for the auto guilty so I waited a night phase.

You absolutely didn't let our team down Maria. the drew thing was a coin flip and I'd likely have made the same choice if I were in that position

It was so fun to be scumbuddies with you, I had a blast <3

[light_ganski]

In fact credit to all my scumbuddies for being a fun team to play with even as we lost

[light_ganski]

Some of you are first time ffery-game players. I hope it was fun, and I will be overjoyed to see you sign up in future games!

I'll certainly be back! it was very fun

[light_ganski]

I need to dial back the madness in my role madness setups.

You mean crank it up.
Embrace the madness.
Spread the chaos.