Shell Game (Day 4)

[Dannflor]

i am somewhat disinclined to meet ur face with suspicion

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sunflower

[Dannflor]

csf and marcistar townie

shello and goodbye mildly townie

actiondan scummy

lukewarm mildly scummy

[Dannflor]

dunnstral is townie too

VOTE: actiondan

[Dannflor]

actually lukewarm isn't scummy I think I just naturally scum read their kind of posting style

[Dannflor]

I think spiffeh is the scum of the overly-explanatory-early-reads slots in this game

[Dannflor]

which probably makes sunflower town because 149 is the type of post to make it look like you're sorting someone and get town read by the person you are pushing it isn't the type of post you make to push a scum buddy

[Dannflor]

and lowkey i think fireisredsir is too good a scum player to post as scummily as he has thus far and also feel this relaxed tonally

[Dannflor]

i think actiondan's jump on marci is the type of jump on i see from scum pretty often when they think a townie has done something objectively scummy

[Dannflor]

i think actiondan's jump on marci is the type of jump on i see from scum pretty often when they think a townie has done something objectively scummy

wdym

I think Marci's posts surrounding the hood kind of look scummy at first glance but I think if you dig any deeper it's hard to really keep seeing that

I think scum, especially early on in the game, tend to stop at that first layer when searching for places to vote as long as that first layer looks indefensible. I think town are more likely to go a little deeper. this is regardless of whether ActionDan is familiar with Marcistar or not

I think this is sort of true for the CSF read too. The "permanent FOS" for the Miller claim is kind of devoid of actually trying critically think about the game and reads like slapping a label on a slot because they did something that seems objectively scummy

[Dannflor]

I find ActionDan is quite first-layer regardless of alignment

i will take that into account

[Dannflor]

Other than that, I have an outstanding post to him about Spiff-scum stylistic notes that I'm waiting to hear back on before declaring more detailed read data there.

i got nothing from this post sorry

[Dannflor]

I find ActionDan is quite first-layer regardless of alignment

i will take that into account

How is this impacting your Dan read?

it doesn't really matter right now, but I'll consider it as Dan continues to post

[Dannflor]

hood 1 is actually just the scum team

[Dannflor]

So you're not looking back through this lens but will look through it going forward?

Why is that?

regardless of dan's tendencies, i still believe in my read that his push on marci is the type of shallow push scum are more likely to make, and i believe i can differentiate this *generally* from shallow pushes that are more likely to come from town

I acknowledge it's possible my radar isn't tuned to the correct frequency but that's only going to be corrected by me over time, not people telling me what their meta of Dan is

[Dannflor]

Firebagel feels awkward and stilted as scum in a way that I'm not sensing here and is probably town too

I think I agree with this

[Dannflor]

Dannflor what has Marci done to mitigate what is "objectively" scummy that I or anyone else shouldn't read her as scum?

idk I just think she believes in what she's saying about the hood. I don't really know why you suspect marci beyond her disagreeing with you about the hood. it feels like you see an inconsistency in her posting especially with how you're pointing out klick agreed with your opinion but marci still posted her paranoia in the main thread. but I don't know why that makes marci scum. It's manufactured? why? why isn't it genuine paranoia from marci? imo marci scum would probably be more likely to follow hood consensus in that regard

[Dannflor]

i sort of think dann could be doing the thing that he's saying AD is doing but like, one level up

oh yeah well i think you're doin the thing you're saying im saying that AD is doing but like, two levels up

[Dannflor]

firebringer lock town

[Dannflor]

can someone add me to the hoods

[Dannflor]

VOTE: marcistar

[Dannflor]

idk last time i saw marci prematurely hint/claim a really good role she was scum

[Dannflor]

viewtopic.php?t=91775&user_select%5B%5D=35197

this game

[Dannflor]

why would i lie about that

[Dannflor]

it's a scary world

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sunflower

[Dannflor]

why would i lie about that

Aside from the claim does her play here remind you of that game?

I decided not really

[Dannflor]

people keep being overly eager to paint meta reads off incomplete/inaccurate data with no shame or concern whatsoever and the fact that some of them are doing it as town is annoying

this is especially annoying when ur scum and the meta reads are accurate imo

[Dannflor]

i was referring to reads on other people as the ones that annoyed me

i am aware

[Dannflor]

I'm telling you one of the hoods is actually just the scum pt

[Dannflor]

i was making a general statement about how it's frustrating as scum to watch people get cleared correctly for seemingly inaccurate or unfair reasons

and also taking a jab at sunflower

[Dannflor]

my read on sunflower is always going to be pretty ethereal at this stage in the game

especially before jupiter starts posting

i didn't feel my previous read was all that strong + i started scum reading spiffeh less and town reading dunnstral more and wanted to vote with him and now I just feel like voting there

[Dannflor]

i was making a general statement about how it's frustrating as scum to watch people get cleared correctly for seemingly inaccurate or unfair reasons

and also taking a jab at sunflower

Do you think this is happening? Do you think scum are frustrated?

maybe! look I just wanted to make a zinger I'm not ready to write my dissertation

[Dannflor]

Ethereal sounds like a scum word

sounds like a linguistic tell

[Dannflor]

just gonna beat fireisredsir to it and point out the only other time i've used the word ethereal is when I was scum

[Dannflor]

just gonna beat fireisredsir to it and point out the only other time i've used the word ethereal is when I was scum

wait nvm i was town in that game

im town telling

[Dannflor]

anyone outside the hood and not exceedingly bored right now is scum

[Dannflor]

let me know when you guys have solved the game

[Dannflor]

marci being the first to hint at having a good role probably makes her town

[Dannflor]

VOTE: actiondan

[Dannflor]

sunflowers is in the hood, not CSF

[Dannflor]

there can only be one dannnn

[Dannflor]

the hood is called the tortured poets department

[Dannflor]

cakez is about to come in here and solve this game

[Dannflor]

anyone outside the hood and not exceedingly bored right now is scum

Why did you feel town would be bored by the curtain parting on the dethy?

let me know when you guys have solved the game

You sound demotivated to me. Is that accurate?

- I don't think I understood what was going on at that point beyond vague mech shenanigans, mech shenanigans tend to bore me even when I understand what is going on. that post was mostly a joke but i was also thinking scum were more likely to be engaged in the goings on

- I'm a little grumpy yeah but I'll shake it off

[Dannflor]

didn't you dislike the miller claim before you realized the whole dethy things?

or do I have the timeline wrong?

[Dannflor]

@morph that both sounds like a chore and would not tell you anything meaningful about my alignment

sorry to be obstinate but also not sorry

[Dannflor]

@morph that both sounds like a chore and would not tell you anything meaningful about my alignment

sorry to be obstinate but also not sorry

I'm not sure what post you're referencing here.

you asked me to give another game where I was demotivated by mech

none are coming to mind right now but I'm fairly positive I've expressed similar emotions as both alignments before

but I don't feel like digging through 50 games

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

Gypyx do you have an opinion on scum in the klick-sunflower-marci-dan-std hood?

[Dannflor]

if shell game doesn't mean people are gonna be swapping in and out of hoods im going to be disappointed

[Dannflor]

invention is just a 1-shot, we target at night, so they would receive it at end of night, so they'd have to use it the next night

I'm confused. The hood has cops of unknown sanities (no shot limit?) AND inventions? Does each hood member have an invention one-shot? One one-shot you share and have to agree on? Something else?

?

[Dannflor]

I'm just question mark pinging that post

the confusion is somewhat unbelievable to me

[Dannflor]

VOTE: klick

[Dannflor]

I don't think it's AD anymore at all

somehow that's my most confident read in the hood

[Dannflor]

like i think the doubling down but also not really caring to overly clarify about the timeline of the miller/cop thing basically never comes from scum

2. AD's timeline matches up very well if what Sunflower says is true about they and AD figuring out the dethy thing about an hour into the game

c. i like the thoughts on marci in 1295, shows some awareness of a playstyle clash that I don't think scum!AD would allow to weaken his push there

[Dannflor]

i don't even think 2 wolves in the dethy is out of the question

i really think it makes sense for people to be swapping around neighborhoods this game so i think the starting number of scum in any neighborhood probably can't be accurately guessed but im not mech brained!!

[Dannflor]

what if scum has to swap a member either in or out of one of the hoods every night or something, they choose which

[Dannflor]

I feel bad contributing to the bad health of the thread but also am struggling to really right myself

[Dannflor]

VOTE: marcistar ?

[Dannflor]

we could wagon marci again instead

[Dannflor]

we could wagon marci again instead

i am being annoying why do you think she is wolf again

I'm not really scum reading any of the other hood members and I agree with Sunflowers that marci feels kind of fake in how she's treated her own role and her reactions to others

[Dannflor]

also I feel like marci misunderstood things at first and that caused her to scum read ActionDan and then later she understood things better but had no discernable change in her ActionDan read

[Dannflor]

i will agree that her tone is different clearly and that i’ve been discounting that since if she is trying a new playstyle it will be foreign but do you think that if she’s a wolf she’s the one who kind of begins the crumbing and leading the main thread into the info like she did?

I don't think that is out of marci's wheelhouse at all

I think marci likes to do wacky impulsive stuff as scum and mind the consequences later

[Dannflor]

I am worried about firebringer not actually being lock town

[Dannflor]

But i do appreciate if u can spread paranoia

I wasn't actually concerned / I don't think anyone is lock towning you

that was just my cute pithy way of saying that I'm concerned about your ActionDan push

[Dannflor]

isn't firebagel doctor drew?

don't think so

[Dannflor]

that was just my cute pithy way of saying that I'm concerned about your ActionDan push

anything i can do to make u more concerned here

um i just feel like your concerns about AD should be sated now

[Dannflor]

I'm extremely concerned now

[Dannflor]

i don't even think 2 wolves in the dethy is out of the question

i really think it makes sense for people to be swapping around neighborhoods this game so i think the starting number of scum in any neighborhood probably can't be accurately guessed but im not mech brained!!

Do you think people can be swapped into both hoods, or just one? Because the second one seems themed around inventors and I think it would be strange if players can be swapped in and out of that one.

idk I'm just spit balling about my very specific idea of what a "shell game" might look like in a mafia game

[Dannflor]

I vibe with that

[Dannflor]

I am unbelievable and bizarre

[Dannflor]

I don't think it's scummy for penguin power to not be materially engaging in a game that's spawned 70+ pages in 3 days

[Dannflor]

you are so welcome

[Dannflor]

firebagel has a lack of self-consciousness that makes her town

i think she's trying to figure people out in her own way and there's nothing in her posts that I see as trying to show off that she's sorting people

[Dannflor]

like she's just popping in and giving thoughts about what interests her and I think the things she's choosing to pick at are townie things

there's no sense of agenda like she's trying to build associations or push a particular lim or make herself look townie

she's just off doing her thing

[Dannflor]

Firebagel - Looking back, I actually hate 106.

283feels like the kind of easy thing scum look for to poke at, and does not even come with a alignment comment on Spiff. Just poking at word choice.

Something about 349 feels fake to me.

I also feel like her interactions with the dethy reveal 993, 1016, 1036 felt like posts of an outside observer, rather then someone whose wincon necessitates needing in figuring things out.

(On the townie side, I did like their town read on Oblivion in 282).

ok reading this i feel like you've made a case for why stuff from firebagel *can* come from scum but not really why it *does* comes from scum

I think the closest thing you have here is the "outside observer" stuff but I think I'm kinder to that because I have felt like an outside oberserver for a large part of this game and I'm not sure it's really alignment indicative and maybe just more indicative of the type of stuff that interests a particular player

[Dannflor]

i think dann is probably correct about bagel regardless of his alignment

I'll take it

[Dannflor]

VOTE: firebringer

[Dannflor]

i reread the pages around when the dethy neighborhood thingy got outed and fire's posting feels kinda awkward and i feel like ordinarily that would be prime fire time

[Dannflor]

also i just have this nagging feeling that one of the people pushing action dan for the timeline inconsistency of the cop/miller thing is scum so why not firebringer

[Dannflor]

106 is deflecty, in a way that reads to me as self conscious. Focused on undercutting the point being made by morph, rather then engaging with morph.

283 is finding something to poke at, which serves the purpose of looking like you are solving, but it missed the part where it actually sorted.

349 did not read as natural, so much as a post that is designed to look like what the poster thinks their town self would think about the game.

yeah, I mean I like *get* it

and it maybe helps that I'm pretty sure I know who Firebagel is and I think she tends to make these types of posts as both alignments and with that calibration I view them as overall very not self-conscious this game

I think the one thing I will say is that 283 isn't really trying to look productive, it's not trying to look like it's doing something. yes it's kind of a useless post but I don't think firebagel is trying to give the impression she's solving or sorting

i don't think 106 is deflecty as much as jokey while still trying to figure someone out

[Dannflor]

also i just have this nagging feeling that one of the people pushing action dan for the timeline inconsistency of the cop/miller thing is scum so why not firebringer

do u townread actiondan right now. Cause anyone who is i have questions for.

kinda, why do you scum read him

[Dannflor]

@sunflowers and Klick, do either of you have an opinion about my alignment yet

[Dannflor]

I don't have much of an opinion on gypyx i don't mind a wagon there either

[Dannflor]

I'm not sure if the town point someone made (Lukewarm?) about gypyx misremembering how the hood works does much for me

the way 344 is constructed makes it hard for me to differentiate it as a genuine slip or not, *and* I think scum might be more likely to overcompensate for having TMI

[Dannflor]

i don’t know what a cabal person is but i dont think sir cakez is scum for this

vaguely think pooky is towny for the conspiracy theory tho

[Dannflor]

also is bingle’s claim even serious

[Dannflor]

i also do not think shading every single other person in the hood at some point is a scum tell

[Dannflor]

also i just have this nagging feeling that one of the people pushing action dan for the timeline inconsistency of the cop/miller thing is scum so why not firebringer

Wasn't that only me and Firebringer? And I admitted that it wasn't a smoking gun.

I thought someone else was pushing it too, idk it just seems like the type of very logic-based argument that scum tend to pursue because it looks like a freebie, except I think that argument fits your MO as town and doesn’t fit Firebringer’s so much

[Dannflor]

you didn't miss me?

[Dannflor]

I think morph is scum

[Dannflor]

the way morph handled trying to sort me earlier in the game was just full on busy work and a complete divorce from how they've tried to sort me in past games

i feel a lot of their posting is an pale imitation of the brand of sorting they are actually capable of, instead I think their posts are more focused on looking town / spreading mist / whatever you wanna call it

i think the way they are pushing sunflower/klick together is weird and really agenda'd and not in a good way - I'll admit some part of this is stemming from thinking sunflower/klick are both town

this whole entire interaction with sunflower is very bad faith

and there's a couple things about how they rolled out the deAthy thing that makes me think they were informed

anyway there's that

[Dannflor]

I think morph is scum

do townie things to convince spiffeh ur town for me so i don't have to

why does it matter if spiffeh thinks im town right now

[Dannflor]

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

there are very good reasons to not push certain scum reads until later in the game

there's a reason I haven't pushed you until now

I expect you are aware of this and this is just rhetoric

[Dannflor]

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I guess I think there's a world you're town and say this because you think burying Sunflower here is playing to your win condition and you don't really care how you do it

but I don't really think you actually believe this

[Dannflor]

Dann can you talk about why sunflower is town?

I liked their read on me and progression and I think I'd be a specific pocket target if they were scum and they've barely tried initiating any interactions with me at all

I unironically think jupiter would have been in thread by now if the slot was scum

I think their hidden morph read is towny, I think there's no reason to hide it as scum and I don't expect scum!Sunflower to be afraid of anyone on this playerlist including Morph

I think both Sunflower and Klick's posts/cases on each other were towny and I can case that more specifically tomorrow, but it reminded me of a TvT in a lot of ways because of the specific ways they both basically took personally how the other was going about reading the other. I think sunflower would have reached for other resources if they wanted to "1v1" klick

in general fireisredsir is not really trying to look town this game, and as scum they plant bread crumb trails, do little reflective step backs, and do random towny conspiracy theories all over the place

I don't see that this game. I think fire's energies are on trying to figure out the game and move town towards winning not any specific scum agenda

[Dannflor]

they are also making a lot of posts that I think they would think would get scum read if they were scum, but they are posting them anyway

i don't expect this point to be particularly salient to anyone but it is true

[Dannflor]

I found town-you in that game despite scumreading the absolute hell out of the player you replaced.

yeah and you did that by diving my meta and finding a tell by yourself that you were very confident in, not asking me if i can point you to another game where i was demotivated by mech

I do remember that I scum read your posting as performative previously and it's possible I'm doing that again

I don't actually want to kill you today anyway, in some part because I don't really have the tools to do that in this game, but your interactions with fireisredsir made me mad so now I'm coming out with this. it was probably a mistake but whatever

[Dannflor]

Did you have any thoughts about his vote on me? I don't feel heavily sussed or sussed at all this game, so leaving a vote on me with an insipid explanation seems unlikely to go anywhere

I don't mind his vote on you

I think people are probably clearing you too easily due to having an idea that you are a polarized player

I think scum are more likely to buy into that narrative and not push perceived polarized players who are widely agreed to be town

[Dannflor]

Also, I should note that I'm not seeing a lot of what I meta read you on in the first game.

I can kinda squint and see your defense of fireisred as maybe being game health maintenance related if you really think that we're being toxic or something. It's just a weird way to go about it, attacking us for our read/vote/justifications. I don't usually assume that's town behavior.

I mean my playstyle has changed dramatically since that game, I wasn't harping on you reading me for that point specifically

Just idk I'm just not as impressed with your sorting this game as I have been in games past, if that's a COVID related thing maybe I'll see that as the game progresses

[Dannflor]

they are also making a lot of posts that I think they would think would get scum read if they were scum, but they are posting them anyway

isnt this just too scummy to be scum written in a fancier way

yeah I suppose

it also has to do with me having played with fire a lot and feeling like I have a decent handle on what he's self conscious about as scum

[Dannflor]

okay here's my list of things that I think Sunflower posts as town that for Various Reasons I don't think they post as scum

I don't think scum!fireisredsir ever declines the chance to show off their special ability to generate Unique and Towny thought processes for the whole thread to see, which makes me think 221 where he declines to further explain his ActionDan read is a town post

I think 485 is kind of too scummy to be scum. I expect an informed fireisredsir to be averse to posting something like this if people are making accurate meta reads left and right. It's just too blatantly following a scum agenda and complaining about the state of the game. I do see an uninformed fireisredsir making this post regardless because he's disappointed in the quality of people's sorting

i think 671 is a towny impulse to just get all the info out and I think it's kind of a surface-level scummy post that scum wouldn't feel the pressure to make because they figure the info will all come out eventually anyway

I think sunflower wasn't very confident klick was scum until 1247 when Klick insinuated he was very confident Sunflower was scum. Having been on both sides of this interaction before, I think this type of OMGUS instinct comes from town a lot more often than not, and scum!Sunflower would be more likely to keep his cool and keep his options open

there are some posts like 1854 that feel underbaked and kinda surface level scummy. like fireisredsir says something is AI but doesn't elaborate. I don't think fireisredsir would have any trouble pulling a complex towny thought out of this observation, but instead he just leaves it as that which I think is indicative that when he's posting his thoughts they are genuine, towny, half-baked observations

all that being said, I would feel 1000% more confident in my fire read if jupiter started playing

[Dannflor]

i don't really think firebringer is scum anymore but i don't know where else I want to vote

[Dannflor]

PEOPLE I THINK ARE TOWN RNOW (in no particular order)

Firebringer
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Oblivion
Hermit Crab (anonymous hydra)
experience

ActionDan

Sunflower
Klick
Lukewarm
Firebagel
Cat Scratch Fever

The unfortunate mess of leftovers (in no particular order)

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Brian Skies
Gypyx
Spiffeh
marcistar
Save The Dragons
Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower

[Dannflor]

sure penguin VOTE: gypyx

[Dannflor]

why do you want gypyx

[Dannflor]

the main thing i will fight against is morph's dichotomy of sunflower/klick

i do not want the lim locked between those two

[Dannflor]

Okay, so here is a question. Actually a series of questions?

Do you think it is correct to eliminate inside or outside the Dethy today?

What are your reads on the 5 dethy members?

I think Klick and Sunflower are town
I think ActionDan is weakly town
I don't really have a read on STD
I think marci is scummy

I don't know if it's correct to eliminate inside or outside the dethy. I think it's probably healthier for the overall game state if it's at least an option to eliminate outside.

what I do know is that I don't want the lim locked between two (imo very strong) players who I also think are town

[Dannflor]

why do you want gypyx

counterpoint: why

not

gypyx?

no, you see, I'm already voting with you

but I want to know if anything besides random chance drove you to pick that name

[Dannflor]

ok thank you

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sir cakez towny wagon

[Dannflor]

do you think me being emotionally detached is scum indicative

[Dannflor]

recently I've tried very very hard to win as scum, often to my detriment even

[Dannflor]

The ones where he looks like he's trying

lol dann's a sweaty tryhard as both alignments

thanks, sweaty

[Dannflor]

do you think me being emotionally detached is scum indicative

o shit that's a good post

i do think it's scum indicative but the way dann is going around it kinda makes me think no

can you explain more why you thought it was scum indicative initially and why that's a good post

[Dannflor]

i think that sort of self-centeredness tends to be towny

[Dannflor]

i think that sort of self-centeredness tends to be towny

How much pressure do you think Gypyx feels at this point?

not much

I don't think we've done a very good job building pressure on anyone this game

Firebringer was the closest thing to real pressure but even that was kinda fake

[Dannflor]

What do you make of her 2555?

I think it's mildly towny

I think scum instinctually tries to look less sensitive to a couple votes

[Dannflor]

i don't really understand the luke/morph thing

Luke repeatedly said "yeah im gonna back off i don't want to pursue this further right now"

but morph was still like "OMG i don't want to keep talking about this lay off!1"

[Dannflor]

that wasn't meant to be a jab at you

[Dannflor]

2655 feels like a scum post :/

[Dannflor]

boo i guess morph is town for being so offended i said we haven’t pressured anyone

[Dannflor]

I feel like you're trying to keep arguments going, Dann.

I am not!

[Dannflor]

boo i guess morph is town for being so offended i said we haven’t pressured anyone

this feels so much like a salty scum read but I'm not going to pursue it because the KNICKS WON LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO

I am salty I wanted morph to be scum

[Dannflor]

I feel generally pretty okay about the current wagons

[Dannflor]

if the current wagons are sir cakes / brian skies

[Dannflor]

I think there are just 22 people in this game and the people who are saying she’s scum now aren’t the people who were saying she’s town earlier

Except for me I did change my mind

[Dannflor]

I feel generally pretty okay about the current wagons

I dont get how this can be when you think im scum and im voting a current wagon

do you actually not understand how this can be

[Dannflor]

Why would i say it if i understand??
I legitmately don't understand how you can like both wagons if you sr me. Do you not think me voting brian would mean something in scum!me world?

It could mean so many things

It could mean I’m wrong on you, it could mean I’m wrong on then, it could mean you are bussing, it could mean you are both different factions of scum, it could mean you’re both town

This is a 22 player game and I’m not ever going to get anywhere if I refuse to vote with anyone I think might be scum

I don’t understand why you think this is strange or why I should come to a strong conclusion due to you voting one of these wagons

And like I struggle to believe this is an actual town thought you have

[Dannflor]

Yeah I'm not really a fan of the gypyx wagon

[Dannflor]

Yeah I'm not really a fan of the gypyx wagon

you think it's scum or misguided?

probably misguided just based on numbers

idk I'm having a hard time keeping track of who is pushing who right now

I think it's mildly interesting your wagon is only really garnering interest now that Cakez/BrianSkies are gathering steam, but I think the votes/wagons are all small enough it could just be noise in a game this large

[Dannflor]

random thing but

I feel like I probably shouldn't be town reading oblivion

[Dannflor]

VOTE: brian skies

[Dannflor]

What games past are you referring to? There's the obvious one, but that's "game", not "games".

I have read a lot of games your hydra has played in

[Dannflor]

random thing but

I feel like I probably shouldn't be town reading oblivion

Oooooh can you talk abt this more please?

Also i probably rather vote cakez or brian (or bagel) than gypyx but sorting it out with ydra

~ skitter

i think oblivion has been consistently putting out surface-towny content but I don't really feel like it has deeply engaged in the game yet like a townie

I don't get the sense there is something it really cares about?


like even its most recent 2698... i don't really feel like oblivion cares about its marci town read, i feel like it's doing busy work

[Dannflor]

possibly

[Dannflor]

i don't think that's out of the realm of being manufactured personally but I think gypyx leans town for other reasons anyway

[Dannflor]

random thing but

I feel like I probably shouldn't be town reading oblivion

Why not?

i think oblivion has been consistently putting out surface-towny content but I don't really feel like it has deeply engaged in the game yet like a townie

I don't get the sense there is something it really cares about?


like even its most recent 2698... i don't really feel like oblivion cares about its marci town read, i feel like it's doing busy work

[Dannflor]

I hope you feel better soon

[Dannflor]

Like, what part of it taking the most of its current energy it has to come in and be like "This sudden surge onto Marci feels wrong" makes you think it doesn't care if its townread dies.

That's a wild take.

It’s just a read on the tone of your poat

I understand you hold a town read and probably feel a need to say something about that

It felt to me like the tone of your post had less urgency than it would if you were town with deeply held conviction in the read. It felt like a post you were obligated to make because of your town!marci position.

I didn’t realize you were sick and maybe some of what I perceive as muted energy is actually that instead of being AI, I dunno

[Dannflor]

Thanks Oblivion I will take that into consideration

[Dannflor]

my grumpiness came from feeling I didn’t really have a place to get involved

Initially because it was happening behind closed doors and then because it turned into a mechanical discussion that i am not qualified to weigh in on, and there were several other slots in the game likely to be town that could do all that work anyway

could i have tried harder? yes definitely but i enjoyed being grumpy

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sir cakez

[Dannflor]

marci I think you might be scum because I think you are a good player when you set your mind to it

there is a possibility I’m biased because I think I’ve only really see you try to this degree as scum before

[Dannflor]

I do understand

the only problem is I feel this would be frustrating for you as either alignment

[Dannflor]

what reads do you feel the strongest about right now marci

[Dannflor]

make the bingle case

[Dannflor]

idle thought that someone who initially pushed that it was best to lim within the dethy hood but then let that opinion fall away as consensus settled on being willing to look elsewhere is probably more likely to be scum who wants the time triggered benefit

not necessarily someone whose mind changed but someone who is ignoring their prior principles

idk who this applies to if anyone and im not planning to research rn

Dann, is this what you would call a bread crumb trail

Spoiler:

in general fireisredsir is not really trying to look town this game, and as scum they plant bread crumb trails, do little reflective step backs, and do random towny conspiracy theories all over the place

ya i scum read that post

[Dannflor]

sunflower, please tell jupiter I miss him

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

fire did you write that post

[Dannflor]

I think Cakez is town and marci is scum who doesn’t want his wagon to melt

[Dannflor]

spiffeh/marci/brian i think are my bottom 3 right now

yes marci i know you’re voting brian right now but if brian is actually scum in this gamestate he’s being heavily bussed

[Dannflor]

so are scum just limp biscuits like firebringer and klick if both brian and sircakez are scum right now

[Dannflor]

i am a limp sausage and i own that

[Dannflor]

I do find it odd that Bingle caved so quickly on eliminating me after insisting earlier that a wagon on me was ass. Was the Pooky post that convincing?

scum theatre ass post

[Dannflor]

if the scum team is something like bingle/sircakez/brianskies/experience/firebringer this game is so sad honestly

[Dannflor]

I don’t really think that is the whole team

But that’s what I think the team would have to be or close to it if both cakez and brian are scum like some people (pooky?) are saying could be

[Dannflor]

scum are going to be in the middle of most peoples reads. I am going to be lazy and start collaborating everyones reads to find peoples position in everyone collectively and then hone in on anyone who is consistently null

That is my one task i will do in a bit.

good pup

[Dannflor]

I will try to actually do some reading and make a reads list tonight

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sircakez

[Dannflor]

VOTE: experience

[Dannflor]

I don’t think marci is scum anymore anyway

down to kill experience

[Dannflor]

(Klick was bleeding town btw, serious skill issue to anyone unable to recognize that. like c'mon the guy's not that hard to read.)

Why go into defending Klick?

I always find defending a player previously in a slot to be a little suspicious, I think scum are more likely to be worried about the overall thread perception of their slot and prior players in it like this

scum post

[Dannflor]

Sell me, Dann?

I just don’t think that’s a question a townie genuinely thinks to ask that will help sort a slot

I think cakez saw something scummy he thought he could score points on

[Dannflor]

When did your read on Cakez flip from him town that scum marci was trying to elim? Was there a particular post that set it off?

Pedit

That is @ dann

Not really

I just re read Marci and decided her progression was too messy to be scum partners with Brian

And my read on cakez was mostly a preflip with Marci anyway

[Dannflor]

When did your read on Cakez flip from him town that scum marci was trying to elim? Was there a particular post that set it off?

Pedit

That is @ dann

Not really

I just re read Marci and decided her progression was too messy to be scum partners with Brian

And my read on cakez was mostly a preflip with Marci anyway

What makes you pick experience over the other members of the dethy?

i town read the other members of the dethy

klick i think made that one post that town spewed the slot

marci I just think believes in herself and reading back her progression is too messy to be partners with Brian

STD just is kinda in his own world doing his own thing

sunflower I've explained before and that read hasn't changed overmuch

[Dannflor]

I think luke's posting towards wolfbae is pretty hard to make as scum

[Dannflor]

were people just terrible at playing the scum alignment in 2015

anecdotally i think the overall level of scum play as gone up significantly since even 5 years ago

[Dannflor]

4254 is way less diplomatic than I'd expect from a scum!Sunflower in this situation for whatever that is worth to anyone

[Dannflor]

am I the only one who has not gotten the hint about who wolfbae is yet

[Dannflor]

I kinda think experience is just like slam dunk scum at this point

[Dannflor]

Like, an important thing to recognize is that scum in the Inventor hood is inherently on a timer: they will be outed eventually because town is incentivized to flip within that hood. That means scum in here is permanently poe'd and will be outed eventually. I know how to play from that position, and the entire goal is to spread obfuscation and cover for your partners. If I get town to msyeet in our group once or twice, I've done my job and won and then I accept death while trying to make things as confusing as possible so no one can read anything off my spew.

i just want to say that there are two common ways i see scum playing from doomed positions like this

#1 is the way wolfbae describes here in a proactive way - actively spread mist and obfuscate the positions of your scum team
- i dont really see anyone in the hood playing this way

#2 is just to give up because you dont have the WIM and if you're gonna get caught anyway you don't want to accidentally reveal too much info for town to use
- there is 1 player in the hood who is playing this way

[Dannflor]

#2 is just to give up because you dont have the WIM and if you're gonna get caught anyway you don't want to accidentally reveal too much info for town to use
- there is 1 player in the hood who is playing this way

And it's Save the Dragons. He just did that right here with me.

sorry i think you believe in this read but i don't really see it and i think you're engaged in a tvt

[Dannflor]

Remind me what this post was?

1403

[Dannflor]

Wtf...

[Dannflor]

I feel considerably less strong about gypyx!town today

I think she's starting to reach PoE slot status due to the strength of other town reads

[Dannflor]

well if you need anything from me, let me know

[Dannflor]

dann

why am i so town?

[Dannflor]

Also this is kinda naive reasoning but I don’t think experience is scum here because I would think scum in dethy would be trying hard right now, since they have incentive to do so.

-HM

isn’t that kinda what experience is doing compared to their previous play

[Dannflor]

I kinda just think this playerlist is full of a lot of headstrong and highly skilled town players that all want their own pocket scum reads to be correct and probably want the game to be harder than it actually is

like i think at this point the team *can* realistically just be sircakez/gypyx/experience + 1

[Dannflor]

yikes

[Dannflor]

mechanically why do we not want to resolve the dethy hood first today

Especially with controversial slots like wolfbae/sunflower

[Dannflor]

I also can’t help but wonder if experience is overplaying the clueless/disengaged townie card a bit

but others in the neighborhood are probably best positioned to make that judgement

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gypyx

[Dannflor]

VOTE: experience

[Dannflor]

I still don't really think Sunflower is scum

[Dannflor]

something something a scum team caught early on will push each other down to stay afloat

[Dannflor]

you, sir cakez, and experience all inexplicably hard sussing each other but also not voting each other

[Dannflor]

i don't necessarily think that's the scum team but usually when there are 3 people towards the bottom of the PoE in a game this large they don't all scum read each other this hard, it's weird

do you think everyone else in the hood outside sunflower/experience is majorly town?

[Dannflor]

you, sir cakez, and experience all inexplicably hard sussing each other but also not voting each other

This is straight up false, I'm not even scumreading experience

ok yes sorry as of an hour ago this is true

[Dannflor]

in fact if i had to choose i'd probably do wolfbae, but i recognize i can get tunneled in coinflip reads, and it's not like i'll get the thread to agree with me here

if you think this i don't know why you aren't trying to figure out which one of or even if both sunflower/experience are town

[Dannflor]

why don't you care who dies between the two

[Dannflor]

i also need to stop signing up for large themes

[Dannflor]

I have also been swayed by wolfbae

and going through brian skies ISO and hypothesizing about associations

[Dannflor]

I remember not liking Dan's early vote on Firebagel in 86. It's one of those posts where the short reads list feels completely unnecessary. Like he felt he needed to include something there and just includes an extra townread. His activity here compared to his activity in his neighborhood was also a slight concern. And of the inventors, he just seems the least towny to me.

Oblivion is mostly from the Pooky vs Oblivion debate. And before Pooky spoke up, Oblivion was calling Pooky a snake. I know Pooky and Oblivion worked it out and what not, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

I just got out of a game with Dannflor where he replaced in, and I was kind of expecting more from his catchup here as a result. Granted, he replaced into a slot that was on the verge of elimination, so that may be a factor. I also wonder if his talk about players swapping hoods is just filler talk.

I just grabbed Penguin's name out of the list as someone who I expected more of a presence from. He's pretty up in the air.

STD is similar to Dan in that he hasn't had a huge main thread presence. As far as the main thread goes, I find him less towny than Marci, Klick, and Sunflower.

for the record i think out of brian's scum reads here his Dan read is the most likely to be S-S just due to being significantly less hedgey and more detailed than any of the other reads

[Dannflor]

I still think it's either STD or experience.

also generally think brian is likely to distance the scum in the hood in his dying days and I don't think it's STD

[Dannflor]

brian wagon: [spiffeh, morph, marci, lukewarm, dunnstral, sunflower, pooky, cakez, penguin, csf]

I'd say the first six on my wagon are probably town.

if brian was town reading partners they were probably better positioned without a likelihood of flipping soon

imo like spiffeh or dunnstral

probably dunnstral, I don't really scum read spiffeh anymore

[Dannflor]

anyway there's my 10 minutes of effort for the day

I don't think experience's AtE has been especially towny, I think it's genuine but also pretty NAI