Shell Game (Night 6)
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
PookyTheMagicalBear
Oblivion
ActionDan
Firebagel
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Brian Skies
Dunnstral
Gypyx
Spiffeh
marcistar
Hermit Crab (anonymous hydra)
Save The Dragons
Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower
Dannflor
Lukewarm
Cat Scratch Fever-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
VOTE: Lukewarm-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
PookyTheMagicalBear
Oblivion
ActionDan
Firebagel
Brian Skies
Spiffeh
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Dunnstral
Gypyx
marcistar
Save The Dragons
Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)
Sunflower (JupiterXV & fireisredsir)
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower
Dannflor
Hermit Crab
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
YesIn post 196, Dunnstral wrote: Klick are you ignoring the neighborhood info and doing your own thing with your read lists?
My personal opinion aligns with ActionDan. I could entirely see Ceph informing us of a mysterious reason to suspect the hood when in reality it's 5 town. I don't think there'd be more than one scum.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Ydrasse is towny-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I find ActionDan is quite first-layer regardless of alignmentIn post 309, Dannflor wrote:
I think Marci's posts surrounding the hood kind of look scummy at first glance but I think if you dig any deeper it's hard to really keep seeing thatIn post 299, Shello and Goodbye wrote:
wdymIn post 297, Dannflor wrote: i think actiondan's jump on marci is the type of jump on i see from scum pretty often when they think a townie has done something objectively scummy
I think scum, especially early on in the game, tend to stop at that first layer when searching for places to vote as long as that first layer looks indefensible. I think town are more likely to go a little deeper. this is regardless of whether ActionDan is familiar with Marcistar or not
I think this is sort of true for the CSF read too. The "permanent FOS" for the Miller claim is kind of devoid of actually trying critically think about the game and reads like slapping a label on a slot because they did something that seems objectively scummy-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
morph, do either of you have an opinion on Dannflor yet-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I will answerIn post 339, morph the cat wrote:
I may have missed it if you answered my question. I'm curious about the meaning of your tags in your reads list. what do strikethroughs and bolding denote?In post 335, Klick wrote: morph, do either of you have an opinion on Dannflor yet
Could I ask what your best guess is first?-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
That's basically accurateIn post 356, morph the cat wrote:
Our best guess is that the strikethroughs mean you've found them town enough for now, and the bolds are your scumreads/concerns.In post 353, Klick wrote:
I will answerIn post 339, morph the cat wrote:
I may have missed it if you answered my question. I'm curious about the meaning of your tags in your reads list. what do strikethroughs and bolding denote?In post 335, Klick wrote: morph, do either of you have an opinion on Dannflor yet
Could I ask what your best guess is first?
I find value in it being ambiguous. I like to experiment with different methods of expressing my thoughts on the game. I also enjoy extracting information out of how people engage with different levels of ambiguity vs straightforwardness. I often find that some people's assumptions about things like that are pretty closely attached to alignment.
I'll occasionally shift how willing I am to highlight someone in one direction or another just to try it out and see what will happen-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Yes, but putting kids to bed firstIn post 374, morph the cat wrote:Can you explain why Brian Skies is a strikethru?-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I'm also laughing at the hood and neglecting this thread soz-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
GTH It's SunflowerIn post 568, morph the cat wrote:
Cool so who is it? Name your guess.In post 564, marcistar wrote: YALL I FINALLY REALIZED WHAT MY HOODMATES WERE SAYING
THATS SO SLAY.
I think theres exactly 1 scum in my hood.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I'd rather kill the scum in our hoodIn post 586, Dunnstral wrote: So we should be eliminating outside of that hood today, is what I'm hearing.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
On the contrary this has made at least morph incredibly obvious townIn post 637, Hermit Crab wrote: Ideally I’d like more players to react to see who is and isn’t aware of what’s going on. This removes the opportunity.
Chuck Rab-
-
Klick Flash Forward
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
VOTE: Sunflower
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I think it's pretty obviously softing our role
I also think all five of us have effectively softed the role, and the scum among us was almost certainly informed of what was up before we started
I think it's plausible from either alignment, possibly slightly more likely to come from scum who has more reason to put significant critical thought into how our role/neighbourhood works so early-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Right now:In post 675, morph the cat wrote:
I think I kinda want to hear from each of you five, your read list ONLY on the other four, in order.In post 671, Sunflower wrote: i wanna explain things but some people don't like that for some reason zzzzzzzzz
TOWN
STD
marcistar
ActionDan
Sunflower
SCUM-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This is what's on my mind, yesIn post 686, morph the cat wrote:The huge pro to eliming in the hood is if the first hood elim is scum, then the dethy is a 4 player masonry.
I think we can potentially accurately sort a 1-in-5 with our available info-
-
Klick Flash Forward
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
morph the cat
PookyTheMagicalBear
Spiffeh
marcistar
Hermit Crab
Oblivion
Save The Dragons
ActionDan
Firebagel
Brian Skies
Firebringer
Dunnstral
Gypyx
Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower
Dannflor
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm
Sunflower[/b]-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Cursed tags-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I'm not compelled by arguments related to the Miller claim and I'm kind of ignoring it entirely. Millers can exist, and scum can claim them, and I'm not one to make an accurate assessment of that
But I think CSF is an easy read and I'm waiting for her to show that she's not scum
I'm just kind of not convinced at all by Luke's perspective so far
I believe STD's progression into realisation about the Dethy situation as coming from an uninformed perspective, and I think scum is more likely informed
Firebagel and Oblivion both seemed really obvious town at each other much earlier on
Spiffeh just seems towny to me. I haven't critically analysed my own thought process there, and doing so seems like busywork instead of legitimately helpful when no one is actually voicing a scumread on Spiffeh
Brian Skies' early thoughts seemed genuine to me. I'll go read them again just for you and see if I still think so-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Sunflower scum cuz PoE Dethy-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
In post 150, Brian Skies wrote: I've got townleans of various degrees on Firebagel, Pooky, Sunflower, Dunn, and Spiffeh.
I've got scumleans of various degrees on Shello, STD, Dan, and Morph.
Then we've also got confirmed scum Firepup.
I thought these posts would be some pretty weird scum postsIn post 153, Brian Skies wrote: I like Sunflower's entrance vote and early game banter. It feels natural to me.
I also liked the big post that you don't. I had some agreement with some of the reads.
But I can see why you have issue with it.
Reading it now I'm less convinced. But I'm going to leave them crossed out just for fun-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I am awareIn post 972, Dunnstral wrote:
This explanation is sort of a non-explanation, as well.In post 967, Klick wrote: But I think CSF is an easy read and I'm waiting for her to show that she's not scum
I'm just kind of not convinced at all by Luke's perspective so far-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I could have sworn I saw something from morph indicating one of them thought Spiffeh-townIn post 969, Dunnstral wrote:
This is not true. I am scumreading Spiffeh. Morph is scumreading Spiffeh.In post 967, Klick wrote: Spiffeh just seems towny to me. I haven't critically analysed my own thought process there, and doing so seems like busywork instead of legitimately helpful when no one is actually voicing a scumread on Spiffeh
But I haven't been very closely following morph's posts since I decided they were town-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
In post 970, Hermit Crab wrote: Can you elaborate more on the Firebagel/Oblivion reads?
I thought Firebagel's write-off of Oblivion as town in 118 felt genuine
Overall my assessment of Firebagel is that she seems comfortable and wants to have fun and solve in a way that matches with a town perspective-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Why are you voting for me?
-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
What makes you think that I have any scumreads aside from Sunflower?In post 980, Dunnstral wrote: I do not buy your perspective. You are clearing some players too easily and not paying attention to others. I do not think you have believable scumreads, except for Sunflower
Who do you think im clearing too easily?-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Additional context that readers might want to know:In post 984, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 371 you agree that strikethroughs are your townreads and bolded names are your scumreads/concerns.In post 982, Klick wrote: What makes you think that I have any scumreads aside from Sunflower?
You also clearly split up your list.
And it's that way in part to avoid people trying to get little gotchas by interpreting things however suits their agenda, instead of trying to understand.In post 371, Klick wrote:I find value in it being ambiguous. I like to experiment with different methods of expressing my thoughts on the game. I also enjoy extracting information out of how people engage with different levels of ambiguity vs straightforwardness. I often find that some people's assumptions about things like that are pretty closely attached to alignment.
I'll occasionally shift how willing I am to highlight someone in one direction or another just to try it out and see what will happen-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
1. I am always positionalIn post 1221, Sunflower wrote: klick has just felt kinda positional play in response to all of this and is just not approaching things in the way i tend to expect him to solve. i think he tends to feel really pretty measured and reasonable and confident in his ability to read people and here he feels put on the back foot and the reads don't feel like they're coming naturally
2. I am almost never confident-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Hello, it's meIn post 1077, morph the cat wrote:I'm concerned about Sunflower too. Would very much like to conclude at least one of Klick, Sunflower are town before much longer.
I don't understand the scumreads on me further than 'these are things that are surface-level scummy that I also do frequently as town, and people have to tie themselves to what they recognise regardless of context'
Sunflower is actually scum but posts in a less scumread-able way-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I think we are intended to assume the Dethy situationIn post 1249, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
What do you think Klick?In post 1246, Sunflower wrote:
i didn't ever think it was a for sure thing. i said it was the most elegant. but i am not particularly willing to take it for granted that we can make assumptions hereIn post 1244, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
I'm kind of confused. do you not think there's 1 scum in the hood anymore?In post 1239, Sunflower wrote: also we didn't decide it's a dethy we were like "hey this is kinda like dethy". which. it isn't dethy. can we stop pretending it's dethy im so tired
...though literally right this second it has occurred to me that the 'Shell Game' could be quite literal within the context of the Dethy, and there is no shell
I don't think marci, ActionDan, or STD are scum-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I don't know. You'd have to consider whether that's the direction Ceph would take things, and with the advertising of this game I wouldn't rule out 0 scum under the current parameters
I'm not in a particularly rationsl state of mind for that analysis-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
The thing I find most concerning about you personally is that your descriptions of my play don't match up with how I think of my own play at all.In post 1256, Sunflower wrote: i think that town!klick is capable of finding scum!me. he did it very well recently
i think regardless of alignment he knows that he doesn't have reason to think im scum here
the difference is that i think if he's town he would also know that if we're both town there's a decent chance we can find each other. the fact that he doesn't have reason to think im scum would make him doubt. im on the other side here, not fully confident that klick is scum, and that makes me question AD and marci
the way that his reads on AD and marci progressed from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence isn't supported and just isn't really believable to me coming from town!klick
this is what i mean by calling the play positional. i think that those reads became solidified out of necessity and not out of justified reason. and i don't think that's how town!klick plays
Like the thing just now about going from hesitancy/uncertainty to full-on confidence on marci and STD (not ActionDan, I don’t think that matches my progression there?). I... do stuff like that all the time? When I have a reason to think someone is town, I tend towards hard-committal. I think that's one of my defining traits as a player.
My concern is that you're taking uncharitable interpretations of my actions, because pushing me early and getting me out of the way is exactly how I think scum!you would want to approach this situation.
But I am having doubts about you currently, mostly stemming from thinking 0-scum is kind of plausible-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Isn't it like a trope amongst Shell Games to take the shell away-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
No, I don't expect Ceph expects us to move on from itIn post 1294, Hermit Crab wrote: So you’re telling us that the mod created 5 players neighborhood with all town with some sort of role with questionable sanity, declared that if the mafia still exists in the neighborhood at a predetermined point mafia will get an advantage, and expect town to not believe it and move on? Especially after throwing in the urgency of time?
Naw
-Herr Mitt
The question is whether Ceph would make this game explicitly to punish the dirty setup speccers-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I'm going to refresh tonight. I had a really stressful time last night and this morning, and some of that was due to this game, but most of that was external and me projecting that into this.
I'm finding the push on myself overwhelming. I don't particularly like or enjoy playing to expectation. I also dislike the infrequent-but-significant wagon that grows on me early D1 simply for playing the way I play amongst certain groups of players.
If you have a question that you like, really really care about getting answered, ping me and I'll give it some attention before I refresh. But what I'd like to do tonight after the kids are asleep is go through and get a clearer perspective on the game.
I think I'm quite happy with the actual reads I've developed so far, but I'm going to make an effort to be more transparent as to the reasoning behind most of my reads. Some might change with reflection. My concern is that a number of people are going to poke and prod and otherwise invalidate my attempts at showing my work, not due to its actual content or potential accuracy, but simply due to disagreements in process. I'm not interested in getting into lengthy debates about the accuracy of my opinions or process, unless the goal is genuinely to come to a shared understanding on someone's alignment.
With that out of the way, see you all in like 3ish hours maybe-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I think it's most likely that even if there is Mafia, they have the Inventor roleIn post 1567, Dunnstral wrote:
I do have a question for you. You were told that there were 4 sanities of cop that exist in this game, or something similar, correct? And yet there are 5 players claiming cop inventor in your neighborhood. How do you then believe that there could be 0 mafia in your neighborhood?
Otherwise we could just out them by... seeing who doesn't successfully send an Invention to their target
There are four sanities, but five Inventors
This is most likely true regardless of alignments-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
How they formed? I can tryIn post 1586, morph the cat wrote:
Can you go into how your reads of Cat Scratch Fever, Hermit Crab, and Lukewarm formed?In post 1403, Klick wrote: I'm going to refresh tonight. I had a really stressful time last night and this morning, and some of that was due to this game, but most of that was external and me projecting that into this.
I'm finding the push on myself overwhelming. I don't particularly like or enjoy playing to expectation. I also dislike the infrequent-but-significant wagon that grows on me early D1 simply for playing the way I play amongst certain groups of players.
If you have a question that you like, really really care about getting answered, ping me and I'll give it some attention before I refresh. But what I'd like to do tonight after the kids are asleep is go through and get a clearer perspective on the game.
I think I'm quite happy with the actual reads I've developed so far, but I'm going to make an effort to be more transparent as to the reasoning behind most of my reads. Some might change with reflection. My concern is that a number of people are going to poke and prod and otherwise invalidate my attempts at showing my work, not due to its actual content or potential accuracy, but simply due to disagreements in process. I'm not interested in getting into lengthy debates about the accuracy of my opinions or process, unless the goal is genuinely to come to a shared understanding on someone's alignment.
With that out of the way, see you all in like 3ish hours maybe
I feel like I've already sufficiently done this for CSF. CSF was a person of interest because I didn't feel like she came very close to clearing the level of towniness that she usually has as town. I've kinda liked some of her recent posts I think. But CSF has a pretty clear range
Hermit Crab seemed a bit high potential for scum but then started engaging with the main events and became obvtown
I remain unconvinced that Lukewarm is doing anything aside from posturing-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I sat down and fell asleep in 5 minutes. I needed it
Tonight, then-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
Sad spiral dampening an otherwise very frustrating week.
I am here and ready as I'll ever be to catch up right now. I've got hours. Can't promise I will have my focus on this for all of them, but I'll at least get somewhere.-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I've done quite a bit of reading, I'm trying not to post snippets because if I do I will make at least two pages of posts in a row
But I just wanted to say that I've ISO'd CSF and she is a lot more obvtown than I remember, even earlier on-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
This is hilariously relatableIn post 226, Shello and Goodbye wrote: my only superpower in mafia si being able to somewhat reliably identify if people are town while other people think they are not town. this does not mean i stop their eliminations-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I don't know why Gypyx is being voted in Current TimeIn post 344, Gypyx wrote:Hood tracker :
Hood 1
Marci / klick / sunflower / actiondan / save the dragon
this hood gets info if there are no scums in it by a certain point in time
But this misunderstanding just looks like a straight-up townslip to me?-
-
Klick Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Flash Forward
- Posts: 12910
- Joined: September 1, 2012
I tried showing my work in the moment as I was noticing things and got absolutely bored out of my mind. I am happy to try to describe how I came about reading people the way I read them to the best of my ability, but the only way I'm getting to a place where I viably care about this game and have something worthwhile to say about it is if I value obtaining a more solid overall perspective for now. I know this kind of runs counter to what I said before, but I just want to have fun in a Mafia game lmao.
---
I think my old reads were hot garbage so far. I think particularly my Pooky and morph townreads were quite lazy and I don't immediately see them on a second read-through. This is where I'm at from quite early on
TOWN
Cat Scratch Fever
Hermit Crab
PROBABLY TOWN
Dannflor
Oblivion
Firebagel
Shello and Goodbye
LEANING TOWN
ActionDan
marcistar
Gypyx
Lukewarm
LEFT
PookyTheMagicalBear
morph the cat
Firebringer
Brian Skies
Dunnstral
Spiffeh
Save The Dragons
Sunflower
SirCakez
Bingle
PenguinPower
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.