DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ


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Post Post #6475 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:57 pm

Post by Andrius »

In post 6441, Errantparabola wrote:
Andrius wrote:Zito has EP to thank for his Sub.
what
what did i do
You were the last one to submit their Draft List.
Before you did, I defaulted you to a Missile Silo and McMenno (IIRC) got the Sub.
You submitted your list, I rerolled Cop/Sub based on your submissions, and Zito got the sub.
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Post Post #6476 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:06 pm

Post by Untrod Tripod »

In post 6473, SpyreX wrote:My heartbreak immortalized in amazingness
yw
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Post Post #6477 (ISO) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:05 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 6475, Andrius wrote:
In post 6441, Errantparabola wrote:
Andrius wrote:Zito has EP to thank for his Sub.
what
what did i do
You were the last one to submit their Draft List.
Before you did, I defaulted you to a Missile Silo and McMenno (IIRC) got the Sub.
You submitted your list, I rerolled Cop/Sub based on your submissions, and Zito got the sub.
This is gr8
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Post Post #6478 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:09 am

Post by Vi »

In post 6473, SpyreX wrote:My heartbreak immortalized in amazingness
oh so this is why we play Mafia
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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Post Post #6479 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:55 am

Post by Vaxkiller »

Waiting for that nuke to land so I can see the flip. Need to know how to vote this...
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Post Post #6480 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:23 am

Post by Firebringer »

Nuke Vaxkiller
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #6481 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:43 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Thanks for the game Andrius. A return of Defcon was a nice blast from the past.

The one suggestion I would have for your suggested sequal - have every possible interaction between roles hammered out BEFORE the game is started. There seemed to be some confusion regarding what my Failsafe response could or could not overcome (Interception mode of a Silo doesn't make sense to me, Fallout Shelter does) in the Dead PT. Also think removing the Terrorist makes sense since that adds significant swing to the set-up.

Glad Town was put in a position to win regardless of the outcome.

I don't regret the Vi Nuke. Spiffeh and company had already shown that they'd take any action possible towards a Commie partner so Spiffeh's buddying of Cheet didn't remove suspicion. Vi also supplied twinges with the constant "MoI I can't parse ..." comments. When it became clear I couldn't nuke LLD with my Failsafe I had to remove the other more dangerous if Commie dayplayer.

I also agree with Spy - I think they day could have gone much differently if LLD hadn't been on the attack and calling everyone who looked her way effectively stupid or scum. That poisoned the atmosphere and made it easy for UT to dodge pressure on his "Silo in Defensive" play and look more reasonable.

Also glad that know the proper play is to always assume Spiffeh, Ceph and UT are bussing if they vote for scum. I'll be linkiing this game every time one of them ever says "Why would I vote my partner in that situation".
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Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #6482 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:26 am

Post by Vi »

NGL when I was skimming through the scum isos I saw what Cephrir was doing to Cheetory and I was like "well I hope no one sees that".

Removing the Terrorist is probably a good play, I agree. It felt a lot like a distraction in addition to supplying swing.
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Post Post #6483 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:15 am

Post by Cephrir »

Hey now I only really bussed ss, and that because, you know, of how scummy he was (and later because he committed suicide)
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Post Post #6484 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:04 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 6481, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Thanks for the game Andrius. A return of Defcon was a nice blast from the past.

The one suggestion I would have for your suggested sequal - have every possible interaction between roles hammered out BEFORE the game is started. There seemed to be some confusion regarding what my Failsafe response could or could not overcome (Interception mode of a Silo doesn't make sense to me, Fallout Shelter does) in the Dead PT. Also think removing the Terrorist makes sense since that adds significant swing to the set-up.

Glad Town was put in a position to win regardless of the outcome.

I don't regret the Vi Nuke. Spiffeh and company had already shown that they'd take any action possible towards a Commie partner so Spiffeh's buddying of Cheet didn't remove suspicion. Vi also supplied twinges with the constant "MoI I can't parse ..." comments. When it became clear I couldn't nuke LLD with my Failsafe I had to remove the other more dangerous if Commie dayplayer.

I also agree with Spy - I think they day could have gone much differently if LLD hadn't been on the attack and calling everyone who looked her way effectively stupid or scum. That poisoned the atmosphere and made it easy for UT to dodge pressure on his "Silo in Defensive" play and look more reasonable.

Also glad that know the proper play is to always assume Spiffeh, Ceph and UT are bussing if they vote for scum. I'll be linkiing this game every time one of them ever says "Why would I vote my partner in that situation".
Oh, realy, eheheheh...
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Post Post #6485 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:59 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

uh hello I vote scum when I'm town too
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Post Post #6486 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:17 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

UT, can I just say we've been doing this to each other for literally 6 years, since I joined the site?

My first scum game, and one of my first games PERIOD, was Brotherhood of the Wolf mafia.

Where I replaced in and conned Fate, Mina, SpyreX, AGM, UK and you out of a win and got AGM to hammer you in lylo.

I can name so many games where we are both in lylo together.

@_@
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Post Post #6487 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:32 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

I would be lying if I said that BotW wasn't in the back of my mind this whole game and part of the reason why I've brought you to multiple lylos as scum :twisted:
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Post Post #6488 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:45 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 6487, Untrod Tripod wrote:I would be lying if I said that BotW wasn't in the back of my mind this whole game and part of the reason why I've brought you to multiple lylos as scum :twisted:
lol
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Post Post #6489 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:49 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

I still have the scarsssssssssssss
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Post Post #6490 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:50 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

now that you say it though it has been a LOT of games holy shit

how many times have we actually been on the same side?
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Post Post #6491 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:52 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Like, never.
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Post Post #6492 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:55 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

hellooooooooo new meta read
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Post Post #6493 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:06 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

In post 6492, Untrod Tripod wrote:hellooooooooo new meta read
hahahhah

Dude, BotW me vs. this game me were so different, and yet very the same..

I dunno, reading back is a trip.
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Post Post #6494 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:18 pm

Post by Spiffeh »

In post 6485, Untrod Tripod wrote:uh hello I vote scum when I'm town too
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Post Post #6495 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:24 pm

Post by Andrius »

In post 6494, Spiffeh wrote:
In post 6485, Untrod Tripod wrote:uh hello I vote scum when I'm town too
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Post Post #6496 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:39 pm

Post by Spiffeh »

:P
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Post Post #6497 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:43 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

YEEES
CAN YOU DO THAT OTHER ONE AGAIN
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Post Post #6498 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:31 pm

Post by mastina »

Since Andrius never conveyed my messages in spite of my request...
Spoiler: Date: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:05 pm
mastina wrote:Obviously, this is information not to share with those who don't want to be spoiled, but for those who are spoiled and watching the game, you can convey to them the following:

Just for the record.
I both have, and have not, in fact, lost my marbles and gone batshit insane. There is both a madness to my method, and a method to my madness.

There is an exact 50/50 split chance between me getting lynched, and me not getting lynched, on D1. There won't be nukes on D1 from my understanding, unless my prediction of Reck changing his vote last-minute to NUKE THE BASTARDS turns true. And even if there were, they'd take 48 hours to hit, so I'll get a chance to post serious reads and whatnot before my death.

There are many people here who think I am scum for what I am doing. (I asked Andrius to only convey this message to those who are spoiled, because it makes it obvious that I'm not.) There are many people who for this play would policy lynch me.

But like most mastina plays, this is a calculated risk: I am gambling on the lynch not materializing. And I know that in this play...there will be mostly town who want to lynch me, with some scum. There will be some who defend me that are town, and some who defend me that are scum. Perhaps the more valuable one is that those who are on the fence are more likely to be scum, with maybe a few town.

Of course, if I know this. The default assumption would be, "well, that makes it a worthless play, right?". I mean, there's a reason Slayer's Gambit doesn't work. You have to know what you're trying to gain, and I just laid out how scum will be equally divided in their reactions, with mostly town involved. So surely, useless, right?

...As it turns out: no. What I'm gauging here is psychology, essentially. I'm not reading the players off of the expectation of "scum will do this, town will do that". I'm reading the players off the basis of, "That action looks like it comes from LLD as scum", and "that action looks like it comes from Cephrir as town". (Both true reads, btw.)

Of course, the tricky thing here is...I'm not an idiot. I know that the moment I change my tune, I am a deadwoman. I know that even if I play seriously for 3/4ths of a day phase, what I have already done will totally discredit any chance of my reads being taken seriously once I am gone at the hand of the town.

So, how, then, am I to convey to them the useful information?

The answer is...with subtlety. I'm looking for people who
understand
the situation. I'm looking for people who can grasp what I'm doing. And I'm looking to synchronize with those of them who I see as town. In essence, while I may not be able to directly convey important stuff, I'm hoping that I'll be able to relay it to key players who CAN convey the important stuff.

In other words. I'm looking to rattle feathers here, and reflect on subtle things. It's not the surface stance which matters. It's the tone, the intent, behind the stance which does. I cannot guarantee that I can read that...but the hope here is that I do decently enough to fuck the scum over.

I KNOW it is a big fucking huge risk.
If to nothing else, my reputation! Even if the players alive read this message (I'll be seriously pissed at Andrius if it isn't conveyed), would they actually believe me?

I mean, those that know me should. I'm MASTINA. Of
course
I have a plan. Of course it's a gambit. Of course it served a deliberate purpose. Of course I am still actually playing the game. Of course I was playing towards my wincon.

But to those who don't, they're just gonna see the shitty play and assume shitty player.

But I do know what I'm doing. I'm broadcasting my alignment, if people know what signs to really read. I'm looking for those who have read those signs...and for those who are faking knowing those signs. So like I said: method to madness, madness in method. Calculated risk. I'm HOPING for a payoff here, but we'll have to see.

If I fail, I do owe everyone that apology.
Spoiler: Date: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:21 am
mastina wrote:Another thing which can be shared:

I should probably make a running list of my reads.
Reck I go back and forth on. I can't lock him down. I want to assume town though.
I believe his Cheetory read is correct, too.
Cephrir is town as well.

I'm not so sure about SpyreX (or on the other side, hiplop), but my gut is telling me to believe Reck about UT.

Accountant I also go back and forth on, but lean town more than not. Nahdia could be either at this point. I want town, but I've got a bad feeling they may be scum.
Ser Arthur Dayne at this point could openly claim scum and I wouldn't believe him so if he's scum he already won.
Spiffeh is probably town, but I'm not super confident about it.
GIF's got at least a 60-70% chance of being town here, too.
No read on GreyICE yet, would be pretty ironic if he were scum with LLD, but I doubt that.
McMenno's a wildcard I'll watch.
Zito, hard to tell. I don't like his entrance, but I'm not sure he's scum for it.
I have no opinion on Something_smart.
I'm deliberately avoiding reading MoI.
Nukebringer is probably town, though seeing more spam from Firebringer would help my read there some more.


So, town to scum we get something like:

Ser Arthur Dayne
Cephrir
Cheetory
Nukebringer
Spiffeh
GiF
Reck
Accountant
Something_smart
MoI
McMenno
Fate
GreyICE
hiplop
SpyreX
Nahdia
Ircher
RC
Zito
UT
LLD

EDIT: Slightly lean towards scum on RC, but not strongly. List above edited to reflect that.
EDIT2: No read on Fate. Slightly bad vibes on Ircher. This, as of 26.
Spoiler: Date: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:44 am
mastina wrote:Another one to pass on:

I have to admit at this point, a large part of my strategy is playing up the parts of my personality I hate the most because it is the parts of my personality people perceive me to be. People perceive me to be arrogant, so I have ramped up the arrogance deliberately in response. People perceive me to be stupid, so I have played up my stupidity in response. People perceive me to be bad, so I have played up my suckiness in response. People perceive me to be insane, so I am obfuscating exactly that.

...Okay maybe I'm legit crazy so not exactly pretending there, but for the OTHER points, it holds true. :P

At this point, basically the aim is to keep portraying specific things.
This is to achieve multiple goals. Basically, the first goal there is that--while this is the absolute shittiest way to do this--my posting is meant to convey that I am town. (Seriously, I absolutely loathe, DESPISE, this tactic from players in games. It is the very thing I tell people to avoid doing, and try to discourage others from doing.)

Convincing people I am town might not seem like it's important. But it's part of the plan. I'm having trouble bringing the exact concept into words, but basically, by projecting my alignment to others, I am hoping to have projected BACK, as an echo, useful information from this. In essence, by making people see that I am town, I can manipulate circumstances such that I am in a position where I don't have to worry about being a distraction. I don't have to worry about people focusing attention on me. I can get the town to write me off.

The second part, related to the first, is in making people think I am useless, as an extension of writing me off. Now, you might wonder...why would I want people to write me off entirely? It's simple: because that way, I can deal damage to the scumteam.

If I am at any point killed, it tells the town that maybe just maybe, there was something that made me worthy of being killed. I have claimed vanilla. I am being, basically, an obnoxious fuck. If I die. Then that's pretty fucking significant! Furthermore. Even if I don't.

If I live to see D3, I get to launch a nuke. I have made it very well-known I am nuking LLD.

I am not planning on nuking LLD.
Whoever I DO nuke, though, will give answers: if someone shuts down my nuke, then that means someone wanted to keep LLD alive. This basically confirms LLD as scum, because by being written off by the town, the idea is that town won't waste their PRs on me. I WANT to be left open, to only the scum. If my nuke is intercepted, then so be it, but that tells us information. If my nuke lands, we get that flip and I get to have left an impact.

If nobody sabotaged my nuke, it also basically shows that the scum either don't have the power to sabotage me, or that they WANTED me to nuke LLD, effectively clearing her.

I realize it's a bit difficult for me to fully convey what this plan is.

But basically, the idea is deliberate, calculated, precise, selective guidance to specific things. I want people to be able to use my reads. I want my reads to be a threat to the scum. I want the scum, if they write me off, to pay dearly for it. I want the scum, if they pay attention to me, to be exposed for having paid attention to me, something which they shouldn't do unless I was an issue. I want the town to not waste time and effort on me. I want the town to focus their attention onto the scum.

So while my method is unorthodox, that's more or less what I'm focusing towards.

You might think.
"That's a stupid-ass plan, mastina!"

And to be fair, if it fails, yes it would indeed be rather stupid.

But by and large.

It's actually working
.

If I am massively wrong about my reads, then come D3, it will be obvious I was massively wrong about my reads, and we'll be much better able to refine and redo the list.
GreyICE basically nailed the point when he said that I would basically invert the list if given a reason to change the read. That point has the specific trigger, of D3. (Which I SHOULD live to see.)

If I am at all threatening with my reads, then the scum will in some way work to sabotage me.

So that part of the plan is basically surefire going to work. I don't even need to explain it, either. If the scumteam sabotage me, either by nightkill or by the strike team, it'll be SUCH a "what the fuck?!?" moment that they'll not need to be told this; they'll figure it out on their own. If the scumteam doesn't sabotage me, then I can explain it myself.

The part of the plan in question is the getting town to write me off. And that part, I think is working. Yes, I am the second-largest wagon. Or is it tied for first right now? Doesn't really matter. Yes I know that the people on there justifiably want me dead if for no other reason than policy. But you know what?

Even though I am town. I know the wagon won't go through. The scum aren't going to be stupid enough to force my lynch through. Yet there aren't enough town players interested in lynching me. So they'll lose interest. They'll get distracted. They'll pursue the shiny. They'll write me off. Maybe in their minds temporarily, but it'll be long enough. Just long enough, that I'll be given free reign.

So, I'm not worried right now.

I realize I could be making a fatal miscalculation.
No, literally, FATAL miscalculation. As in, lynched today, miscalculation. Meaning my work here would be wasted.

This IS a high-risk, high-reward plan.
But given my read of the situation, I think I'm fine. I'm reasonably confident that no matter how much I goad them, no matter how much I taunt them, my claims of them lacking the numbers to lynch me ring true. Too many people townread me or pretend too strongly TO townread me.

It also helps me direct things where I want them to go. For instance, the votes on me mostly came from Something_smart. In short, by drawing attention to MYSELF, I deliberately was shutting that wagon down. That'll make me look awfully fucking stupid if I'm wrong and Something_smart actually IS scum but I'm preeeeeeetty sure that Something_smart is actually town here, sooooooooooo...

...It's worth the risk.
I'll protect Vaxkiller and Something_smart, even if the cost of it is playing the most dangerous game of chicken with the noose ever. A sort-of, more subtle "Mastin Gambit". You know, "I'm so confident playername is alignment, that you can lynch me FIRST". That Mastin Gambit.



...Okay. Yeah. I'm crazy. I'm insane. This plan has so many ways it could go wrong and only a few it could go right with the ways it could go right potentially being underwhelming compared to my projections, compared to my expectations.

But I think this explanation makes it clear enough that,
yes
, is IS in fact a plan. I have a strategy. Maybe not a GOOD one. Maybe one that is universally to be called a bad one, ESPECIALLY if it goes awry. But it's a
plan
, nonetheless!
Spoiler: Date: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:15 pm
mastina wrote:More thoughts:
Right now, I do not hold an LLD scumread.
But by GOD I cannot give that away. People think I am going to nuke her. And my plan absolutely HINGES on people assuming I am going to nuke LLD. I absolutely canNOT let out the fact that I'm not scumreading her anymore, even though I feel like she isn't scum and I absolutely suck at subtlety. It is vital that the scum assume I am going to nuke her. Absolutely
essential
.

So with that in mind, I'm trying to keep focus elsewhere, to avoid bringing attention to LLD. I'm trying to avoid mentioning her much at all, and when I do to have it be in a neutral context rather than a negative one.

But right now, Ircher, RC, Zito, and GiF are who I'm focusing on.
RC and GiF strike me as the type to have come up with the codes the scum are using.
Ircher and Zito strike me as the type to be posting the spam in the scum PT. Particularly Zito.
Those four are my main suspects for being scum, and I'm trying to keep the focus there without giving away my plan.

I can't nuke Ircher. He put stock in all the anti-nuke options. Nor can I nuke GiF, for obvious reasons. (I mean, it'd be hella ballsy for me to do, but one, I'd be intercepted, and two, even if I wasn't then if I am wrong and GiF ended up being the town cop...I'd have fucking NUKED the TOWN COP. Not something I want on my resume. As impressive as nuking a scum cop would be, I know myself well enough to know that my read is FAR more likely to be wrong than right.)

What I
can
do, however, is...nuke RC, or nuke Zito. Preferably Zito, though RC is viable and was actually my plan until my Zito scumread grew.
Spoiler: Date: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:52 pm
mastina wrote:Been a while, but this whole post can be passed on:

I don't particularly like the tactic I am using right now. It is a fucking awful human being dirty scumbag tactic to use. But it's effective. REALLY effective. Pushing Cheetory's buttons and forcing him into the enraged state he is in is an awful thing to do. But what it does do is give me a better idea of him being town.

I think he is town right now. I really do.
It's been fluctuating a lot, but with this level of upset, this level of rage, this level of a breakdown, I don't think he's scum. I'm just trying to get that final push--that final absolute confirmation from him. If he is town, here, I think he can show it definitively. It might be in a way he never wanted to show anyone. But he'd show it all the same.

I'm also looking for people's reaction to his meltdown--that's equally as important a factor. He is probably town. He, therefore, probably does not have a scumbuddy telling him everything is going to be fine. But the scum, therefore, are in all likelihood...going to feel like utter shit for him feeling so shitty. They know I'm town and if Cheetory is town, they'll know he is town and know that our interaction as toxic as it has become was two players having a flare of passion. (Rather, one. I haven't held passion in my responses. This is cold. This is calculated. A very asshole thing to do, undoubtedly, but not something done with a lick of negative emotion.)

So what I'm looking for is how they respond, how they treat the situation.
I really don't think Cephrir is scum, for much the same reason I'm thinking Cheetory isn't. The game might not remember this at the moment given the flare of passion and emotions going on right now, but for me, it's...a little hard to forget. Cephrir held a similar "fuck you" attitude, one which was to the point of being beyond what I think he is capable of summoning as scum.

I also don't think Vaxkiller is scum. And I know hiplop isn't a Russian.
UT's a bit of an assumption on my part.

But if Cheetory isn't scum.
Then in those other five names, there are two who ARE scum.

Between LLD, SpyreX, GreyICE, Nahdia, and MagnaofIllusion, I'm hoping at least one of them shows their true colors in the heat of this moment.

And for the record: aside from potentially this, I don't hold regrets. I have played to the best of my ability to fulfill my wincon. I have scumhunted. I have made deductions. I have analyzed. I have been wrong as much as I have been right, but me being wrong is not reason for me to stop trying. If it were, I'd have stopped giving effort long ago. Yet it's not.

As town, my JOB is to try and find the scum. My JOB is to try and expose the scum. And if I haven't done it before, that's not reason to quit--that's reason to try harder to get it done right in the now. And because it's my job to scumhunt, because it's my job to keep trying, it doesn't matter how wrong I have been. My duty is to get the town closer to finding scum.
So that was my plan and thought process on it, as the game unfolded, more or less.
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mastina
mastina
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False Prophet
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mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
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Post Post #6499 (ISO) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:43 pm

Post by mastina »

And for the record: not gonna apologize for being nuked BY scum, and having nuked scum. :P
Will apologize for: having nuked Zito, and recalling the nuke on scum.
Both were mistakes. Those I will say sorry for.

Literally everything else, right or wrong, I will not say sorry for. I was right on a lot of stuff. I was wrong on MOST stuff. That's par for the course in a mafia game. The main regret is the Zito nuke. (Me not nuking Zito ironically would have saved Red Coyote's life, because SpyreX sabotaged my nuke and therefore Zito would have shot someone else. It would also have saved Zito's life. Of course, me nuking Red Coyote would still have been me nuking town. But it would be me actually saving town by having done so. Unless Zito, like GreyICE, decided to nuke who I nuked anyway.)
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