~laundry~ FIN

[Tammy]

You're avatar's face looks like my cat just before he starts attacking and biting my ankles.

[Tammy]

Arthur - I have very limited experience with Creature and Nosferatu, and I'll not claim to be able to read either well, but Creature was more engaged in the game I played with him though I wouldn't say super engaged. He did actually post more though. And Nosferatu doesn't post a whole lot, but I thought the game-relevant posts he made in the game we played were pretty solid.

[Firebringer]

You're avatar's face looks like my cat just before he starts attacking and biting my ankles.

i don't bite.....anymore

[Firebringer]

maybe i should shit post a little less.
my shit post to content ratio is pretty low for this game.
id like it a 6:4 ratio of shit to content, and i think i am at a
8:2 ratio right now

[drealmerz7]

that post didn't help your ratio

[drealmerz7]

woahshit, drealmer is here

but not caught up so...I should probably stay stfu

[Tammy]

I wish nacho and I would have been around at the same time a bit longer, so I could get a feel for him. :/

[Toogeloo]

What SAD wagon?

Are you serious? The guy who got to L-1 like 24 hours ago?

[SlySly]

I've been away from the thread all day. We're 36 pages in and it seems as though the RVS lovefest is over so...

UNVOTE:

I will review what I've missed tomorrow and lay down a real vote.

[Pine]

I'm a bit behind too. I have some time set aside this afternoon for catching up to games. It's been a hell of a week. Wife has been sick, issues with job, doesn't matter. I'll be current soon

[Andrius]

Is it because Now has done jack all, because that's why I originally voted him?

I mean I don't have high expectations for Nos, but yeah, his not doing things is bad.
Also Creature but w/e I've seen him to next-to-nothing before. Attempting to be charitable here.

I don't believe that's your perception Andrius.

Well then we're at an impasse.
Look, I understand where you're coming from. You're saying you were happy. Great. I'm not arguing that.

My perception was something else. I'm not going to claim SAD and I are on the same page but he also thought you were off at one point in time.

I know you're better that the bs your posting right now.

Uhhhhh what.
What, the reads list early on?
I usually have reads lists. I do it all the time.
Are my reads atrocious? On occasion. I successfully found zero scum in Curse of the Werewolves and p. much only found town the entire game.
I don't claim to be good at this game but you can't say I'm not transparent.

I still think you're over correcting. And just because you were able to knock me off tilt last time I suspected you when you were scum by playing this stupid game you're playing now, it won't work this time.

You know I can't respond to this right now.

There are no games here. These are my reads and if you just say "ok great they're terrible" that's fine.
But I'm not convinced that's the case.

Thought that was interesting. Why is dreal the strongest townread Andy? Zach would certainly seem to disagree.

The lists aren't stratified other than by category.
If they are, I'll make it clear that's the case.

The only thing I like is that people are finally realizing what I pointed out last night that nosferstu is being useless. She's scummy, but frogger asked for a minute and I'm giving that.

Thanks. I'm not sure on Nos yet but I know a town Nos when I see one...usually as the game progresses. I'm not going to say what it is, because I don't want to influence that behavior coming out or not.

This doesn't help me. At all.
I want him dead and the vague IN THE FUTURE stuff won't fly forever.

Vote: Andrius

What bitter moisture is the taste of betrayal, Andrius. We could have had it all, but the only love you have for me is a dagger in the back.

I don't know, man.
I could write for a long time about things that probably don't matter to people here/matter anymore but that'd be a waste of my time.

This isn't some form of betrayal.
Yes, perhaps I was foolish to think I could just pick things up where I left off with people after being gone for years and more time wearing a black tie than I wanted to.
But if I were to speak honestly from the heart we'd be so far off-track with this game.

So no.
I'll mortify the heart and do what I can for you all.
I'll stay here, as long as you let me.

Tammy if I offended you then ask me to leave and I'll be gone.

Why do you feel better about Fro99er, but he was already a town read?

So let's say you're married.
I think you are.
You love your spouse?
Then they do something unexpected and you love them more.

I townread Fro99er.
He did things.
I townread him more.

Changed my mind. Through page 23 and [Frogger, Tammy, Nacho] all better.

"Hi honey I'm home. And I changed my mind! I love you."

Your wife would slap you and think you didn't love her before.

What you said indicates you had a scumread on him before. Which is why your whole readlist reeks of fakeness. You also liked my reaction to my L-1? That happened before you posted your reads list and you still had me as scum there.

Clearly I need to write better.
"I changed my mind" implied I changed my mind from going to bed right now and decided to read a little bit more. Not I changed my mind on my read.

dreaemrz - Drealmerz is as drealmerz does. He'll scumread me at some point for a difference in playstyle but there's little that can be done save be masons with him.
Pine - I mean you punch me in the heart when you say I maybe scum. But I think you're town. Strong early game, gives no shits.
MariaR - We're always waiting for the next season. The producers don't want any big moves this early. Also, you remind me of AGM a bit with the (apparently) you have a preference for MAFIA and there's less engagement here. But hey, we're talking atnd its D1 so maybe we'll stick it to the producers this one eh?
SlySly - Town.
Fro99er - Town because the big three are hating on him and he doesn't give a shit. Honey badget don't care.
Toog - Wow look he's doing things. And he's joining the gif brigade. Town.
SAD - Town for reactions to wagon and potential lynching at L-1.

All of your town reads are poetry; they aren't reads.

Drealmerz is drealmerz but look at us, we are scum together!

Pine is town because he doesn't care. Frogger is town because he doesn't care. Maria prefers scum and is less engaged and thus town. Sly is town because Sly is a friend.

The ADMIRAL ANDRIUS persona is not just amusing pictures; there's supposed to be an actual drive to solve the game and holy shit is it hilariously absent; I'm just sad that Tammy made it here before I did.

See this is just opinions.
I have my reads, which are my opinions.
You might think I'm bullshitting but that doesn't change what I think.

Tammy might be all happy to walk into the game but I was like whoa hang on there's something off here.
Doesn't mean she's not happy.

Like, you can call my reads wrong. That's ok.
But don't sit here and undermine everything I'm doing.

Pine is town because he doesn't care. Frogger is town because he doesn't care. Maria prefers scum and is less engaged and thus town. Sly is town because Sly is a friend.

Look I'm not expecting you to be all GIVE THIS MAN PROFESSOR MAFIA.
I play in my own mixture of reads with a few specific tells I've picked up from being here long enough.

I don't know how to engage with you here because you're shutting down this entire conversation with NO ITS ALL BULLSHIT YOUR READS ARE POETRY.

Do you disagree with my reads? Or is it how I am presenting them? Do you think Pine is scum? Do you think Fro99er is scum? Do you think Maria is scum? Do you think Sly is scum?
Or are you just taking issue with my tone or presentation or something?

Because just going LOL POETRY is bull.

Also if we're wagoning people for lurking and/or not contributing to the game I feel creature is better at least there are people who can vouch for Nos for being like this everything I have ever read about and or seen of creature he's an extremely engaged player.

Trust me I an noticing Creature.
I have some experience with him.

nacho - Nacholove I could write you an essay. All I want is for you to be here and do the reads and either lead or be part of the TOWNBLOC that you know will happen because you and I are here and this is how we roll. I want to see you interact with people and be human but I'm not getting the Nacholove vibes. And you know I can read you correctly. (And yes, I realize that the most recent game we've played was WEREWOLVES with PINE. I forgot about that one.)

Andylove what the hell is this?
"You aren't being human and you know I can read you, by the way we haven't played together in three years"???

What part of my opening said "not human" to you? Why do you talk about being confident in reading me now when you weren't confident in reading me when we were actually playing together?

I know better than to assume people don't change after years.
I would be lying if I said I hadn't.

Its like, I pretend that I can just pick up relationships after awhile with no change because certain people don't care about what happens in the rainy days, so to speak.
My words to you are an odd mixture of HI LETS PICK THIS UP AGAIN and OK WELL MAYBE YOU DONT or well maybe we just never had a strong relationship to begin with.
I would say more but the best example of this is somewhat

on-going

so I can't.

I mean.
You're here now, interacting with me.
So I guess I got what I wanted, eh?

My gut on you is usually right.
That newbie, both Xeno games we townread each other instantly but then allowed ourselves to doubt in the long-term, twice leading to my lynch in order to guarantee the win.
Its the paranoia that usually kills us. Well, me. You outlived me every time.

Maybe I should stop bringing in myself from outside the game into the game.
Maybe I should just wear the mask.

Look, I'm sorry for being an ass.

I don't want this to be a YOU AND I WALK AWAY FROM THIS

And sorry, I've already heard this song and am not particularly interested in yet another rendition; play me something different.

You don't like my reads? ok
You don't like my tone? ok
You don't like my delivery? ok
What do you want from me?

Yeah....andy was acting odd around Tammy.
Like really odd.

Like the conversation didn't feel normal in anyway.

Like a pre-pubescent teenager around his really hot Spanish teacher?

I don't get what you're alluding to.

i just can't get into this game. I need a flip to get reads, but i usually suck day 1 anyway. Why are people voting Andrious

Do you have any reads?
Any at all?

i just can't get into this game. I need a flip to get reads, but i usually suck day 1 anyway. Why are people voting Andrious

You should replace out it's not too late for someone to catch up your playstyle annoys the shit out of me the "sit there and wait for people to do stuff while I do nothing can we just get a flip any flip I'm bad day 1 I can't get into this game".

Agree with this sentiment.
What you said is far more charitable than what I might have said.

Slay and Dream are question marks for me as I don't understand how you can read them

Meta.
And me thinking I know them well enough.
Granted, I probably don't.
But I think I do well enough.

Not done yet.

[Tammy]

Saying see look even Arthur thought you were off early doesn't really help. If I had a dollar for every time Arthur called my early game forced or something of that nature when I was town, I could buy myself a nice dinner.

[Tammy]

And if you buy that I'm happy, what the heck do you think I'm happy for?

[Andrius]

Hi!

There are so many people here that I can't shout out and tell you how happy I am you're playing or it'd be too long, so just know there's a bunch of you I'm really excited about, and I think this game will be great. Nay I think it will be moist!

VOTE: nacho. I'm town he's scum yoda yada.

Ok like, yeah, this is probably you being happy.
I read it and was like ok this is odd. Its not unnatural from you but at the time I was just like uh.

And I'm not saying playing the MOIST game is SCUM. I'm saying it just clogs up posts and its just more crap I have to ignore or parse through. If I'm sitting here going 'ok Tammy's being all friendly and shit and being all posting to the post-restriction thing then that just furthers the whole contrived thing. Because no one's going to say moist as many times as we all are in this game naturally. Just makes posts look more fake. Or at least odd as crap.

Its like, yeah, I get it. Early game shenanigans and funning around. Lots of words without much being said. I get it. Maybe its just me and being down to business. My second post was trying to figure out how the miller works (does he investigate as SOCK MAfia or SHIRTS Mafia or all Mafia or Non-Town Aligned or what) because that's important crap to know.

Maybe I shouldn't form reads on the first few pages but that's how I've always done it and D1 reads are how I refocus.

Its like the page three Aeronaut THIS GAME IS AMAZING.
No, its not.
We just talked about moist for a whole page and I'm not expecting LETS GET DOWN TO BUSINESS TO DEFEAT THE HUNS but I'd rather not waste my time reading crap for pages.

I have been head-in-the-game from the get-go.
Investigating the Miller claim.
SlySly pointed out the MILLER claim so of course I run all over it. That's not RVS that's hey lets pressure the miller now.
The Strahdians were all over it because Dunnstral faked a miller claim that game as scum.

Man.
Maybe priming this game with FUN FUN FUN wasn't the right call.
Maybe I should just replace into games and bring the fun in after they forget what having fun is like after burying everyone they know and love for days on end.

Then you return.
With a gif. Ok.
Commenting on the Desp claim. Ok.
#236 is what I understood as joke reads on Toog and Nacho for the saying they're town thing.

Maria's doing that stuttering thing but I can't read it and insert moist here.
Was hoping I'd have an instant read on frogger but i dont but i like his tone so that might be ok
I cautiously like desperado. claim is moist.

Again, I'm not expecting 110% srs bsns from the get-go but there's alot of posting and reads with alot of wiffle room. Which, again, ok, if that's your jam that's your jam just tell me to shut up and go away. If playing with me doesn't bring you joy then tell me to buzz off and I'll split.
That's your way.
Then you come around and are SURELY ANDY CANT HAVE THESE READS THIS EARLY THIS FAST OR SOMETHING
CLEARLY ITS ALL BOLLOCKS

We've had this conversation before.
I'm not trying to tell you how to play, but it sure feels like you're telling me when I'm not playing up to your standards or how you think I should be playing.
Again. We've

shared words on this but probably shouldn't say more

.

(The italics means I'm mentioning something we can't talk about. Yet.)

The only real objective thing I could see pinging anyone is that I said it was going to be a great game.

No.
Its like, you (and Nacho) have already set the bounds of how this plays out. Everything I've done is wrong or horrible and you've been fairly abrasive with the whole THIS IS BENEATH YOU crap.
Like, ok. You can disagree with me on my reads/tone/approach/whatnot.
But you went like complete abrasive on me and I feel like you're just trying to shut down this before it becomes a conversation. Because I don't get the feeling that's what either of you want. I've been nothing but clear with my apprach this game. Sure, some (or maybe all hell if I knwow) of my reads are wrong. But you're not going 'oh this or that read is wrong' you're both just going ITS ALL SHIT ANDY YOU CANT POSSIBLITY BELIEVE THIS'.
Where do we have a conversation from here?
How do we fix this?
Because it doesn't seem like you want to "sort" me. If feels like you've already done that.
Which I'm still attempting to do even though the longer this goes on the harder its going to be to parse.
Because, at the very least, there are a few people who know me well enough to know I'm an emotional player and don't do well when compromised.

People don't usually have a problem seeing me as town when I'm town.

Thanks for yet another insult.

But here is where you went low caliber. You actually made the accusation that I'm inflating my post count by participating in the mini game. Nobody does that shit. Nobody goes oh I'll inflate my post count to look town save in certain instances, and only scrub mafia players actually make that argument with a straight face. And I totally get that I hold players that I respect to a higher standard and sometimes it isn't fair when they're having a weak game, but the "inflating post count" argument is weaker than weak and sub par. That's a disappointing argument coming from you. I can't see you making it as town, especially when it isn't even close to the case, but I can see you making it as scum when you're scrambling for some reason to try to call me suspicious. And it's still disappointing coming from you as scum because it means that you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to explain your reads.

I wasn't trying to accuse you of inflating your post count.
I was saying, in general, all this little thing does is inflate the word/post count, which it has.
Yeah, I disagree with some things at a mod level. Yeah, I should probably keep more of my opinions to myself. Especially when they don't really matter that much. Especially whne unprompted.

but I can see you making it as scum when you're scrambling for some reason to try to call me suspicious.

I'd love to say something here, but I can't.

I wasn't scumreading you BECAUSE of the moist.
The extra posts are part of your portfolio, sure. But they're not the cause of the scumread like you may think I was saying.

Yeah, I talked about inviting people to the game. A few of us have talked about League or Higurashi. My scumread was a tone thing and it looked very friendly and/or trying to look friendly and playing the moist game is a great way for people, in general, to look like they're doing the cool kids club thing. Its a thing this game so people are going to do it and it strikes me as something scum might do to fit in. But that did not MAKE the read.

And here's the rub Andy. You are not going to make me feel like I'm not playing well this game, which is what your whole argument about the moist thing feels like. I feel centered in this game. I feel good. I may not have many reads right now, and maybe the few leanings I do have are wrong, but I'm good, it's good it's still really early day one. I have enough people here who understand me and know how I play and I can work with, and maybe some of them are scum. They're probably not all town, but I'm not isolated here; trying to make me feel like there's something wrong with what I'm doing isn't going to work and neither is trying to make it seem like there's something wrong with participating in a silly mini-game, even if I'm the only one actually doing it.

Look. This isn't some personal attack or vendetta.
I scumread you for your tone. I'm not here to criticize your play. I never have.
I am being honest with my reads. I thought it was suspicious so I said something. No, not all my reads are fully-formed from the first time I make a reads list. But I post what I have so it's there.

I don't care if you're EP one little bit. I do not think there is an innocent child in this game, so you are not that. EP could just as easily be your fake claim or he could have made himself scum or third party who knows. Your flavor claim does not make you town, and you can pretend you're in charge of the game all you want, but I'm not buying it.

I didn't really think I was in charge of BSG Mafia.
I just joked about throwing people out of an airlock.
I'm not trying to take over the game.

It's like oh yeah you find me suspicious because you disbelieve my reads and don't like I'm not pushing my scum reads, well you're playing the moist game and you suck so how about that huh???

I never said you suck.
Nothing I have said to you was meant as a personal attack.
I feel like there may be a disconnect here.

Its like.
Part of me feels like you're pissed at me for something.
If I'm the problem, I'll leave if you ask me.
If this is just you scumreading me and wanting me dead that's another thing.

I don't like your reads lists because I do not believe you have those reads. They feel very fake and fabricated, and they feel like you keep making them to avoid actually getting into the game. nacho was right when he said that your reasons for your reads are just poetry, and I believe that you have a problem adequately explaining your reads when you're scum. I don't have a problem with too many early town reads, but I do have problem with the town reads that you have especially in relation to how your other reads are playing out. I feel like you are forcing your scum reads and they don't make sense. For instance, you put Creature and nosferatu in null but Nacho in scum when really quite frankly they should all be null. (Except for now, I get the nosferatu scum read.)

You're telling me how to play.
"They should all be null"?
They may be to you.
I'm not trying to tell you how to play the game.
I get if you disagee with my methods/reads/tone/approach/delivery but dont tell me how I should be doing this.
I'm here and I'm playing the game.

So, its not that you disagree with my reads, unless I'm mistaken, because you're not saying that.

You're not really doing anything about your scum reads.

Uh, yes. Yes I am.
I was voting Desperado with the Strahdians.
I was voting SAD with the Strahdias.
I am voting Nosferatu without them.
I am transparent with my reads list even if I'm getting shit for doing so.

but your reads do not make sense to me. Your actions this game do not make sense to me.

You also don't seem to look at this from my perspective.

I get that you were happy at the onset of the game. My perception of your posting was different but that doesn't change how you felt or what you did.

And, frankly, what is this.
What is this.

We've had a discussion on telling people how they should or should not play the game before. And living up to one's expectations.

The biggest thing I'm getting from you (and Nacho) is that I'm not playing how you want me to play. Or I'm not living up to your expectations.

Which just seems odd given

words elsewhere

proved you are very strong-willed and don't want to be told how to play.
So why are you telling me how to play?

[Andrius]

Uh, sorry, I should have said I wasn't done.
Or something.
Oh well.

[Firebringer]

Am I being trolled here?

[Tammy]

Ugh I'm trying to fall asleep, but I'm not insulting you or telling you how to play.

And the "People don't usually have a problem seeing me as town when I'm town" was not even a reference to you. It was about me knowing that my first post read awkward and they often do, but I don't care or self-edit there because ultimately people don't have a hard time seeing me as town and getting past a first awkward post.

[Tammy]

I'll respond to other stuff later or maybe in a bit if I can't fall asleep, but I wanted to clear that up at least.

At the end, that's me being silly jfc.

[Firebringer]

Good night all the friends

[Tammy]

How do you read this:

"You're an asset to town if you're town and you were someone I was hoping would be town and that I would be able to work with. But you don't feel like that right now and it's disappointing."

And think I'm pissed at you. I'm not pissed at you and I'm not even being abrasive. I think you're scummy and it's disappointing because I wanted you to be town and things to be all like yay. I'm sorry if you think I'm pissed at you, but I'm not even close.

[Tammy]

Toog is an actual moist towelette read.

Nacho was a joke town read based on him calling himself town. That was the wishful read. He thinks it's fun to constantly be scum against me and see if he can fool me, but dammit I keep hoping for us to be town together.

You can point out a lot of wiffle room all you want, But are you seriously giving me shit for not being certain on a couple reads I wanted to have less than TWELVE HOURS into a game. Why couldn't I just call them whatever read I decided I wanted them to be? I don't need to leave wiffle room to change my mind on a read. I am perfectly fine changing my mind on a read at the drop of a hat as scum. Faking reads is one of the easiest things in the world to do as scum. I have no idea why some scum think they have to leave room to change their minds and can't commit to a read. That absolutely baffles me. Always has.

I'm not going to fake reads I don't have so that you can go oh yay Tammy is firm on a read. I'll give reads as I'm feeling them and that includes when I'm unsure but leaning one way or the other or just plain have no clue. For the people who are interested in where my head is at and are interested in working with me on reads and the game, they will. If that's not your thing and you just want to get after me for not having solid reads then that's fine too, but then don't complain to me that I'm the one stifling conversation. I didn't say that you couldn't have reads fast, you'll note me not getting after Arthur for his reads list, I said I think your reads are fake.

I don't care about the first few pages of a game while they're happening 95% of the time. It's a very rare game I do anything before the first 5-10 pages of a game. I especially don't care when it's the one night of the week that I can get to bed at a decent hour and get more than 5 hours of sleep.

I don't care about the miller claim. I've seen town millers, scum millers, scum fake claiming millers, etc. I don't care about them anymore. They're one of those claims that I disregard and look at the way they're playing the game. If their play warrants suspicion I probably come back to it but in and of itself yeah yawn.

More later hopefully I can fall asleep now.

[Tammy]

Me saying an argument you made is below your caliber as a player is not abrasive Andy, it's an observation and i pointed out exactly what argument you made I thought fit that. The post count inflation thing. And whether or not you actually mean that, you did actually say it. And when saying that wasn't what you meant you included inflating word count, so obviously that is/was part of your argument. You didn't get after anybody else for goofing off in rvs, you didn't get after anybody else for talking about towels and socks, you didn't get after anybody else for posting gifs/talking about laundry related stuff, you reserved that just for me for participating in the non-Andy approved moist mini game. If anyone has a problem with the other person here, it's certainly not me having a problem with you.

I didn't stifle conversation Andy. I pointed out my issues with your reads lists and that they felt fabricated like you were forcing reads to have them and you were remaining on the peripheral of the game while trying to look like you were in the midst of it. I also pointed out my problems with the way you weren't actually pushing your scum reads and interacting on things that I thought you would if you were actually involved in the game and have the reads you say you have. Point out to me where you addressed that? Because where I'm sitting you ignored it. And you ignored it to instead deflect and put me in my place about the moist thing while making a really stupid argument. I'm not stifling conversation here Andy, never was. I wouldn't have written you a long ass wall if I were stifling conversation.

And you finally address my issue with your lack of pushing your scum reads by pointing out that you're voting? Really Andy? Also, I couldn't give two fucks about team Strahd, and if you're voting with team strahd. We're playing a new game now, it's called the Laundry game. I get wanting to relive the greatness of some game past, it's why I wanted an early read on Frogger because we worked together really well in Mafiaception. But, the way you're acting about it feels contrived. Voting really isn't pressure as far as I'm concerned. People can leave their votes on a wagon all they want and not actually do anything about their scum reads, which is was I feel you are doing.

[Tammy]

I never thought you were personally attacking me.

[Fro99er]

The lists aren't stratified other than by category.
If they are, I'll make it clear that's the case.

This doesn't address my underlying question though about your Dreal read.

All this serves to do is say he's not necessarily your top town read.

[Fro99er]

This doesn't help me. At all.
I want him dead and the vague IN THE FUTURE stuff won't fly forever.

I'm not trying to help you. I'm saying there are very specific ways I can tell Nos is town. I have seen it a bit, but not enough for me to feel comfortable hems town.

Your reason on Nos is bull. It literally says you want him to do more. But you said the same for Creature and are letting him get a pass

What is the difference between the two.

I have no history with Creature so he's null for me right now (that and I haven't tried to sort him yet). I have a history with Nos and I'm perfectly comfortable not pushing that slot and letting it play out.