War in the Palace

[PokerFace]

I have an idea for a new AiTP Variant and I would apreciate criticism. Here is the basis

War in the Palace

1

You are

King Alpha

. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are

King Beta

. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1-X?

You are an

Alpha Guard

. XXXX is King Alpha. You win the game if King Alpha is alive, King Beta is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. If King Alpha Dies you will immediatly commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1-X?

You are an

Beta Guard

. XXXX is King Beta. You win the game if King Beta is alive, King Alpha is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. If King Beta Dies you will immediatly commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are the

Anarchist

.

As long as King Alpha is alive you have an Alpha-Bomb

As long as King Beta is alive you have an Beta-Bomb

You can use each bomb only once to kill any player. No player is immune to either bomb. If you are lynched you must use both bombs immediatly with your dieing breath. You win the game if King Alpha is dead and King Beta is dead. Use your vote and your bombs to bring an end to all order.

Questions:
1. How many guards should each king have?
2. Do you see any strategies that could break this game for any side?
3. Let's say the anarchist wants to use a bomb before being lynched. Should he be forced to use both bombs at once?

If all sides claim at the start which side they are on A or B then there is chance that the side that gets more people claiming, who anarchist lies about being with, could imediatly lynch all those on the other side. Or people could go after the larger side to get rid of the anarchist but at the same time that makes the larger side smaller if they kill guards before getting anarchist. I don't think there is a breaking strategy as long as i am not overlooking the odds here.

Only problem is there can be a stalemate should they all claim sides and the anarchist gets lynched first and he kills 2 guards, one of each type. Should the Anarchist auto win in that situation since there will be no order as a result?

Or to safe guard a claim later than at the start, reveals could be King A, King B, Anarachist or Guard. Meaning guards would not be revealed as protecting a certain king at the time of their death.

[PokerFace]

if only kings and anarachist left with both bombs. I think anarchist has a win there

I was thinking 3 each

Also another title option would be

Disorder in the Palace

instead of war

[PokerFace]

I thought i mentioned both scenarios of big group killing little group or big group getting weeded to find assassin?

I think trojan horse just solved the problem there on stopping the mass claim. Thanx Troj. only way they could claim side now would be to say who there king is and that would be fail.

Only question now is how many guards

and should anarachist be forced to use both bombs at once. I am starting to think he should

[PokerFace]

if the anarchist goes at any time you have equal numbers doesn't this result in happily ever after?

No, the different sides would still have to try to eliminate their opponents.

Would there be a town included? What would their wincon be if they were included, otherwise this would be a 9 player game?

This and fact guards don't know who other guards are and for which king should prevent happily ever after. All sides should still be encouraged to lynch the enemy king

No town would be included so yay with 3 guards for each king it would be only 9 players.

And yay i am thinking the anarchist must use all bombs he currently has and kill himself all at once since i think game balance would be favoring the anarachist otherwise

[PokerFace]

And yay i am thinking the anarchist must use all bombs he currently has and kill himself all at once since i think game balance would be favoring the anarachist otherwise

If the anarchist manages to kill one of the kings, then the other King and his guards auto win. I think that if you make the King immune to the opposite bomb, then that would lower the Anarchist's odds enough. If you are going to eliminate the Team Alpha/Beta this could still be achieved. Tell everyone that one King is King Alpha and the other is King Beta. Then only tell the Kings if they are Alpha or Beta.

problem with that is assassin could get screwed

say he uses alpha bomb early on and king beta dies via lynch. Assassin now has no bomb and almost zero chance

Also let's say alpha bomb is used and no one dies. oops looks like everyone knows who king beta is.

I am thinking troj has best solution and yay you could tell each king if they are alpha or beta just don't tell the guards if they alpha or beta. That idea could be useful if you still wanted some form a team flavor aspect.

You could have "team edward" vs "team jacob" vs "Team Twighlight must die burn them All!"

[PokerFace]

Ok then this looks like it fixes all points brought up so far

Disorder in the Palace

2

You are a

King

. You win the game if you are alive, the other King is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1-6 (3 for each king)

You are a

Guard

. XXXX is your King. You win the game if your King is alive, the enemy King is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. If your King dies you will immediately commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are the

Anarchist

.

Edit: Work in progress

You have 2 kills as long as both kings are alive. If you are lynched you must use both kills immediatly with your dieing breath. No player is immune to your kills. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your bombs to bring an end to all order.

Any other issues and or do you think this would be fun or too easy for any one side?

Edit: me thinks assassin can be written better or perhaps taken out of the game completly. kills would be given to kings in that scenario.

[PokerFace]

yay i thought it might be a good idea to be rid of anarachist given what TH said but yay you are right that totatally changes the dynamic too much. I'm gonna need to re-write the assassin role though so it not so confusing given if one time a king dies via lynch he should probably loose a kill.

[PokerFace]

Some variants of AiTP outside of IRC have players modkilled should they claim name of their king or claim guard. should that rule be instituted to avoid massclaim here? If they can't claim their kings name then then I think that would stop mass claim.

Without that rule or some other deterant i think mass claim will happen if assassin dies early. And if sides even at that time then kings and guards draw. There is the rare chance the smaller side could lynch all of the bigger side if no claim happens and bigger side is dumb but i doubt it woud happen

current assassin pm

You are the

Anarchist

. You have 2 kills as long as both kings are alive. Should a king die while you have 2 kills, then you will only have 1 kill left. You may use these kills at any time. If you are lynched you must use all kills you have immediatly with your dieing breath. No player is immune to your kills. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your bombs to bring an end to all order.

[PokerFace]

hmm I could have the assasin die if he runs out of kills. and when he dies he could drop 2 guns. one for each king to use and take turns at shooting any players. though i feel that may change too much....

edit: King with more members would get to shoot first of course and if even not sure who would shoot first. though i don't know if i like this change so i may nix it.

[PokerFace]

I have modded on other websites and IRC. On MS I have reviewed and co-moded and backup modded a few games

The other websites sadly aren't arround any more so i can't really prove what i have done there.

Eventually i will actually take the time to join the modding queues or just wait for marathon days. Maybe some credentials will get waved for me given some people know of my games but if not waiting in line ain't so bad.

I have run a few epic games on marathon days such as Bastard Face, Bad Reveal, Two Face, and AitPPPPokerFace. So even if i don't wait in line i can still run some epic games.

At the moment I am considering either leaving things as is and hoping assassin just doesn't die early OR have guards become assassins of enemy kings once original assassin is gone. Basically guard starting pm is the same. BUT if assassin dies early then 1 guard of the larger king faction gets a suicide bomb he must use on the enemy side right after assassin dies. If both sides are even at time assasin dies then things may still be drawed. Or I will have to pick a side at random perhaps. Either way I'd still like a suicide bomb effect to the endgame

Edit: Perhaps i let larger side go suicide bomb crazy until both sides even or game over. And once both sides even i do like a baseball overtime innings giving suicide bombs until there is a victor. One side gets a bomb they blow someone up. If its king the other team must now hit king or they will loose. If top inning faction does not hit king then its bottom innings chance to end game imediatly. And only then if both kings die in same inning will there be a draw.

[PokerFace]

Current idea

1

You are King Alpha. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the assassin is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are King Beta. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the assassin is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

6 (3 to each of king)

You are an Guard. (Insert real name of player that is a king here) is your king. You win the game if your king is alive, the other king is dead, and the assassin is dead. If your king dies, you will immediatly commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest. When you die you will only be revealed as Guard

1

You are the assassin.

You have 2 kills you can use at any time including just before your lynch. If you run out of kills, you will die. You can not have more kills than their are kings left alive so if you have 2 and a king is lynched, you will loose a kill. No player is immune to kills. If you are lynched you must use any kills you have imediatly with your dieing breath. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your kills to bring an end to this war.

If the assassin is alive he can Endgame the Kings in certain situations. Should 1 King be alone with the assassin or both kings be alone with the assassin and no guards are alive, the assassin wins.

OR

You are the assassin.

You have 2 kills you can use at any time including just before your lynch, neither is a suicide bomb. You can not have more kills than their are kings left alive so if you have 2 and a king is lynched, you will loose a kill. No player is immune to kills. If you are lynched you must use any kills you have immediatly with your dieing breath. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your kills to bring an end to this war.

If the assassin is alive he can Endgame the Kings in certain situations. Should 1 King be alone with the assassin or both kings be alone with the assassin and no guards are alive, the assassin wins.

This is current game idea. Which assassin role do you think is better? What do you guys think about improvements to the other roles? If assassin dies early there may be a mass claim of king but then you could risk your king having less followers so you loose. High risk high reward. And if assassin dies early then same thing

[PokerFace]

I think you are right

I think what I was asking was, "in either situation is the assassin too powerful?" Clearly he is too powerful in that one.

Is there more that should be done to limit him or do you think "no kills left = dead assassin" is balanced enough?

[PokerFace]

Also here is why I think an assassin with 1 kill should be able to endgame both kings should no guards be alive. Neither king will vote for himself. And in theory neither king is able to achieve their win condition. They can't get both other players lynched, its not possible. While in theory the assassin can get one of them lynched and kill the other. His win condition is still theoretically achievable while the others have no logical move they can make to win. They can't play to win any further, only the assassin still has a chance. So he auto wins there instead of a happily ever after

[PokerFace]

well him not dying makes him def too powerful

Correct me if I'm wrong:

The only difference between the two scenarios is that, in the second, the assassin may play on if he has used up both kills and at least one king is still alive. And if the assassin reaches endgame with no guards alive, then the assassin wins, despite having no kills left.

If I'm understanding correctly, then the first scenario (where the assassin loses if he has no kills left) is the way to go. Otherwise, this may happen:

Three player endgame. King, guard, and assassin left. If the assassin still has a kill, then he has the game won; he just needs to use that kill on whoever he wants. If he kills the king, great. If he kills the guard, then he's left alive with the king, and he still wins. The assassin can't go wrong in that situation.

No. If the assassin has used both kills, and at least one king is still alive, the assassin should die.

[PokerFace]

In normal AiTP the assassin has the power to make his suicide bomb at any time. And yes the usual and best play for the assassin to make is not make the kill until his lynch. So what I'm doing there is keeping things consistant

Are you suggesting I forbid this assassin from making any of his 2 kills until he is lynched?

Do you think he needs that done to him?

[PokerFace]

with there being 9 players him surviving to the final 4 may be an easy task since 1 kings death does eliminate all guards to the king yay I think this best way to word assassin:

You are the assassin.

If there are 2 kings alive and you are lynched then you get to make 2 vengeful kills

If there is 1 king alive and you are lynched then you get to make 1 vengeful kill

You win the game if both kings die. You win the game if you are alive and all guards are dead. Use your vote and your kills to bring an end to it all.

[PokerFace]

Beause of November crash this thread lost alot of posts. Ultimatly these were the final roles decided on in order to not allow for mass claim and an overall balanced game

War in the Palace

1

You are

King Alpha

. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. You have a 1-shot kill you may use at any time. If King Alpha is alive then this kill must be done in thread by posting

Kill: X

. If King Beta is dead then you may PM the mod this kill. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are

King Beta

. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. You have a 1-shot kill you may use at any time. If King Alpha is alive then this kill must be done in thread by posting

Kill: X

. If King Alpha is dead then you may PM the mod this kill. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

6 (3 to each king with the real name or king in the role. Ultimatly guards only know who 1 king is and don't know if they are alpha or beta. They are revealed as guards at the time of their death)

You are a

Guard

. XXXX is your King. You win the game if XXXX is alive, the other king is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. If you king dies you will immediatly commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are the

Anarchist

. You have 2 vengefull kills you may use at the time of your death. The number of vengeful kills you have is equal to the number of kings currently alive in the game. If one king gets lynched you will loose one of your kills. No player is immune to kills. You win the game if King Alpha is dead and King Beta is dead. You don't have to be alive to win. You also win the game if all guards die and only you and both kings are alive. Use your vote and kills to bring an end to all order.

[PokerFace]

I ran AiTPPPPokerFace3 which was a themed WiTP on January 28. Team Lady Gaga won and the game flavor was:

XXXX has been lynched he was PokerFace. __________ have commited Suicide. It is now day N. Game continues.

XXXX has been lynched she was Lady Gaga. __________ have commited Suicide. It is now day N. Game continues.

XXXX has been lynched he was Alejandro. The thread has been locked. Time to see some explosions!

XXXX has been blown up he was PokerFace. XXXX has been blown up he was Lady Gaga. Alejandro wins!

XXXX has been lynched he was a Guard. With every guard dead, the remaining king(s) are left with just Alejandro. Alejandro is the only player with 2 kills left. Alejandro wins!

XXXX has been lynched she was Lady Gaga. With Alejandro already dead, Team PokerFace has Won

XXXX has been lynched he was PokerFace. With Alejandro already dead, Team Gaga has Won

XXXX has been blown up he was a Guard. Alejandro has died and lost the game

With Alejandro dead and no guards remaining, PF and Lady gaga are forced to set aside their differences and come to a truce?...

___________

Lady Gaga Win Ending:

Lady Gaga: Oh yay thats right I am the greatest singer there is. I don't owe anyone money now. How did I get so good. Well I was born this way.

Time Traveler: I thought you were born with a dick?

Lady Gaga: What the? But you're dead!

PokerFace: Yay I sorta broke the space time continuum awhile back so reviving myself and or preventing my own death is easy.

Lady Gaga: So you're sorta like a zombie then?

PokerFace: You could put it like that. Point is you will never get rid of me.

Lady Gaga: How about we make a mutually benefitial compromise, together we do something good for the both of us?

PokerFace: No deal. I want money or your song off all air ways worldwide! That song annoys me!

Lady Gaga: Oh come on, there must be songs or artists that annoy you more than I do?

PokerFace: Well...

Cliche Newsboy: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber have been found dead! Cameras at the scene were unable to read the faces on their murders. Police have no leads and will likly not waste their time. Extra! Extra!

__________________

PokerFace Win Ending

PokerFace: Lady Gaga sat on a wall. Lady Gaga had a great fall! All the kings horses and all the kings men can't put her together again! Oh yay! Sadly though I don't think I'll be getting any money now. And Gaga's death will likly put her songs all over radio waves for weeks in tribute. I won't profit and will likly be more annoyed than ever. Damn, wish I had thought this whole war thing out further before Gaga and Alejandro died. Alejandro surely got the bad end of this thing. I mean I barely gave that guy a back story and I've already killed off his character. Fourth wall break aside, what's left for me? What am I to do? There must be someway still remaining to profit from my image...

Cliche Newsboy: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Stock's in P. F. Chang's Restaurant Franchise rising after scummer endorsement deal. Extra! Extra!

__________________

Alejandro Win Ending

Alejandro: Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Time Traveler: Ha Ha Ha Ha! So what are we laughing about?

Alejandro: You? But how? How are you alive? How am I alive, didn't I kill myself?

PokerFace: Yay i'd explain it to you but theres just no time, I'd much rather vidge you in the face

Alejandro: But what will you gain from killing me? Without Gaga I don't really see a need for any of us to fight. There is no fame or money coming from her music that could hurt of benefit us now

PokerFace: So what do you suggest we do instead?

Alejandro: Well...

Cliche Newsboy: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! New song "Night 0" by Alejandro Featuring VidgeMaster P and Snoop Dogg has climbed to the top of the Billboard Charts. Extra! Extra!

__________

Wierd Ending (This is end if Alejandro blew up last 2 guards leaving only PokerFace and Gaga alive together. I didn't want a first to post next kill wins scenario. One person's name and post could be shorter than the other and given possibility of lag I figured a tie was deserved in this kind of situation)

Lady Gaga: Yes that fool is dead and I will beat you next PF

PokerFace: You and what army?

Lady Gaga: Me and My dance crew will... Ok it appears they are all dead

PokerFace: As are those other me's from the past and future

Lady Gaga: How exactly did you get those other you's without destroying all space and time?

PokerFace: Yay when space and time are destroyed the only outcome is parallel dimensions. So getting a bunch of me's from other places never really hurt anybody real to this world. It just created multiple realities where anything is possible.

Lady Gaga: huh, is that science theory or is that fact? Don't those other realities need the yous that belong in them?

PokerFace: Kinda, but not exactly. I got a fail safe module built into my time machine. If a being dies in a dimension not his own, he just warps back to his real dimension, though he will have memories of that foreign dimension in his mind. A minor side effect, but for the most part, the end result is worth it as one can not die in a dimension that doesn't belong to him. It all works on the principle of no free energy. You can only be destroyed in the same dimension you were created in.

Lady Gaga: That's rather interesting. But are you certain that is the only side effect? Did you actually test the fail safe? And what will those memories lead those other you's to do? IS THE REST OF THE WORLD SAFE? ARE YOU CERTAIN THE REALITIES WON'T SOMEHOW SUFFER AND IMPLODE FROM THE TEMPORAL STRESS OF YOUR ACTIONS?

PokerFace: Not really

Lady Gaga: You'd risk the end of all things just to get what you want from me?

PokerFace: Well I figure we have survived this long, whats the worse that could happen?

Doctor Who: You don't want to know...

[PokerFace]

AiTPPPP3 was an odd exception to how AiTP games normally go, as the anarachist was found mad fast and he killed 2 guards of the same faction. The king of that faction got forced to kill when he was at L-1 and as his shot of wrong the other kind shot back for the win. The players in the game voted whether or not to include WiFOM and oddly enough I feel that led to the assassin getting found earlier and asking about kings. WiFOM AiTP games seem to find assassin's earlier but expose info about kings early as well. While non-wifom games tend to catch assassin's late so they die with less info, but less players are still alive so their targets still get narrowed down. It sounds like an equal trade off but overall WiFOM games are won more by the assassin and non-Wifom is won by the kingdom. I prefer WiFOM games as they tend to be more fun and not just a quick lynch + random kill spree. I feel I get to enjoy myself and hunt for the right info or right ways to decieve others. And that feels more like mafia to me

[PokerFace]

<<Necromancer

The holiday marathon day brought about 2 more WITP games

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24625

One had a questionable descision by a king to use their kill before the mod revealed a player's role. Be certain you lynched the assassin before you make your strike

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24717

Other game had 1 king get lynched day 1 forcing a mass suicide right day 1

So games have had guards, assassins, and even kings get lynched early. I am pleased with the outcomes so far

Assassin = 2 wins

Kingdom Alpha = 1 win

Kingdom Beta = 0 win

Grey Ice was lady gaga (King Alpha), Majify was a king alpha, Theslimer3 was a king alpha

Money Bags was me (King Beta), Red Panda was a king beta, Zabriel was a king beta

If anyone from AiTPPPP3 can remember the full player list in that game I would appreciate it because I have forgotten 2 players:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4592960

[PokerFace]

In response to your first suggestion,

I have seen a few games where an assassin did not understand the rules and killed early thinking he got multiple kills each night and such. I don't want to allow a player to make that mistake as i feel it kinda ruins the game. Throughout the thread before we discussed the benfit of them killing vengefully and figured this was best

In response to your second suggestion,

I am not sure what you are saying. If 1 guard is alive its still first kill in gets the win. Or if one is lynched before anyone gets a kill, that will make the non lynched king win. Only in the event where the 2 kings are the

only

alive players and both have kills or neither has a kill I consider it a draw. If one king has a kill and the other doesn't, then its obvious which one wins

In response to your third suggestion,

I like this idea and have pondered something simular since those 2 games. I however am not sure of the symantics or grammar on writing in that setup change to the kings roles. If you want to write it out or can come up with a good way to translate it, then I will use it

As far as the micro queue thing works, I have been on mafiascum for awhile and moderated face to face games and moderated on irc, scumchat, marathon games, and a site that isn't arround any more. As none of those have records i can give at mod /in I am technically uneligable to mod a micro. My work/real life schedules have always been busy and with how the queue mod lines work outside easily timeable/predictable patterns I have refrained from ever signing up to mod games in the general forums here. Perhaps one day they will feel my creditials are enough or I will find the time to join the queue's bit by bit. Until then though, someone else is more than welcome to borrow my setup and give it a good running in the micro if they want to.

[PokerFace]

Thank you Mr. Snail, here's a further breakdown

You are

King Alpha

. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the Assassin is dead. If King Beta dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you can pm to me at any time. If the Assassin dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you must use in thread by posting

KILL: XXXX

. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

You are

King Beta

. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the Assassin is dead. If King Alpha dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you can pm to me at any time. If the Assassin dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you must use in thread by posting

KILL: XXXX

. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

@copter,

What all have you modded before? Have you ever modded an AiTP game? They often go ridiculously fast. Game days have often been shorter than real life days. This is another reason why I usually only run these on marathon days. I feel it is easier for me to free up the time and easier for players to free up the time. Kinda makes this ultimatly more far for those that would normally have work and miss an important game moment. Basically makes participation easier for everyone

@anyone,

Why AiTP. Why not AITP or AitP. Need a grammar guru here

[PokerFace]

Well i feel foolish. I searched the wiki and apparently all 3 of those have been used and are considered appropriate. So whichever is correct doesn't matter then i guess

@robo

Well alright if you want to run it I welcome you to it then. You do sound like you can handle the task. I am not 100% familar with the micro rules/requirements for game setups but if you can run it there then go ahead. Let me know when you plan to run it. I might try to rewrite the assassin role as snail suggested so that they can suicide bomb instead of vengeful bomb. I have been pondering that suggestion as of late