Newbie Setup (Matrix6 implemented)

[RichardGHP]

I can definitely see where StrangerCoug is coming from. In

principle

, I am against List Mod-assigned setups for the same reason—we are providing a public service by modding and we should be able to expect a degree of trust from the community, players and officials alike.

However, I suspect that there is more non-random generation going on than we would like to believe. Whereas a mod has a motivation to choose their favourite setup, the List Mod has no such motivation. So in

practice

, I support us being given the setup by the List Mod.

[RichardGHP]

The thing about list mods assigning setups... if you believe mods are rigging the setup chosen for play, is there not reason to think that the mod might also be rigging the role assignment?

Yes, there is reason to think that, but that's a different issue. We can very easily enforce the one we're talking about (and do so without coming off as fascist). It's like I said, I agree with StrangerCoug in principle, but disagree with him in practice.

If we are really that divided, why can't we just do a trial run and see what happens?

[RichardGHP]

You would have to change any setups that have a role like guiser, but I wouldn't be against seeing some EM setups here.

[RichardGHP]

People generally gambit and CC more on EpicMafia because the stakes are much lower. You are investing, at most, about 20 minutes of work in a game, and if you are lynched or killed, you can simply join another game with the guarantee that it will start within a minute or two. Mafia on EM is just something to pass the time. Mafia on this site is generally much more calculated, and that should be taken into account if we are suddenly going to import setups from a site with a completely different attitude towards the game.

[RichardGHP]

We've done those setups before and the town EV is only 33%, if I remember rightly. It

is

theoretically balanced but it relies heavily on player skill, so it probably wouldn't be ideal for the Newbie queue.

The idea of having an "old-school" setup in general is good though.

[RichardGHP]

My thought is also "no".

[RichardGHP]

The Wiki says it's normal. It's exactly a town version of Godfather.

But still probably not something we should be putting into newbie setups.

[RichardGHP]

Mountainous means no power roles, if that's what you mean.

[RichardGHP]

How exactly are newbie games "sanitized" compared to other games (aside from being semi-open)?

[RichardGHP]

As I've told you, we do usually become somewhat hostile towards newbies who think they know what's best for the community better than us (people who have been a part of the site for a number of years).

[RichardGHP]

Oh, well mafia games are different. You may find that there's a certain hostility to newbies in games that necessarily attract a lot of veterans (Large Themes and so on), but I don't believe it's a sitewide thing. Most all of my modded games have had at least a couple of newbies and I didn't see any noteworthy hostility.

PEDIT: Now, if you can stop ninja-ing me, that would be great. TIA.

[RichardGHP]

I like it.

Need to specify how Roleblocker vs. Jailkeeper works out though.

It should work as I outlined a long time ago: roleblocks cancel each other out; JK's protect still works.