When you are incredibly easy to read...

Zachrulez · Post Post #25 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:08 am

In post 24, TheIrishPope wrote:be like me

Define "being like you."

FakeGod · Post Post #26 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:12 am

In post 25, Zachrulez wrote:
In post 24, TheIrishPope wrote:be like me
Define "being like you."

Become a celebrated scumhunter like TIP.

Mr. Flay · Post Post #27 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:53 am

In post 23, Zachrulez wrote:What I mean to say is that it would require a lot more effort and energy than my actual town game does, because I'm not playing town, I'm pretending to. It means I have to identify all my town indicators and emulate them. There's a lot more to that than just being town.

That's what you need, though. Dropping your Town game to match your scum game is NOT the answer.

Burning_Earth · Post Post #28 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:55 am

In post 27, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 23, Zachrulez wrote:What I mean to say is that it would require a lot more effort and energy than my actual town game does, because I'm not playing town, I'm pretending to. It means I have to identify all my town indicators and emulate them. There's a lot more to that than just being town.
That's what you need, though. Dropping your Town game to match your scum game is NOT the answer.

You will jus be scum read as town.

Zachrulez · Post Post #29 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:09 pm

Which is what happened much earlier in my career on MS. Incidentally, it was possible for me to play scum then too...

Oversoul · Post Post #30 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:21 pm

In post 27, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 23, Zachrulez wrote:What I mean to say is that it would require a lot more effort and energy than my actual town game does, because I'm not playing town, I'm pretending to. It means I have to identify all my town indicators and emulate them. There's a lot more to that than just being town.
That's what you need, though. Dropping your Town game to match your scum game is NOT the answer.

I honestly don't see the big problem here since the end result is the same? Either way it makes Zach's alignment more inscrutable and this difficult to play against?

If this is on general principle of "everyone should try their hardest"/spirit of the game well... Maybe you have a point

Zachrulez · Post Post #31 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:27 pm

Well being transparent as town does have it's benefits when I draw town. It's just the other 25% or so of the time that I don't...

Oversoul · Post Post #32 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:15 pm

Well that wouldn't be true would it? Theoretically, you would be "transparent town" as scum, meaning your transparency would no longer make it beneficial for your town game. Am I approaching this from the wrong way?

Shadoweh · Post Post #33 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:37 pm

Is the word really transparency when the truth is you're just bad at lying and everyone knows it?

SleepyKrew · Post Post #34 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:07 pm

In post 33, Shadoweh wrote:Is the word really transparency when the truth is you're just bad at lying and everyone knows it?

giggle giggle teehee

N · Post Post #35 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:13 pm

In post 24, TheIrishPope wrote:be like me

In post 6, Tierce wrote:Don't you dare nerf your Town game. That's the lazy way out, and playing against your wincon is against site rules at that.

TheIrishPope · Post Post #36 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:30 pm

I have never ever played against my win condition.
What I'm saying is to never filter your thoughts as either alignment. The main goal is not to be hard to read; it's to be read as Town when Town and read as Town when scum. By changing thought processes depending on your alignment you mess up the balance or whatever. "Be like me" means say anything and everything you want at the time.

SleepyKrew · Post Post #37 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:05 pm

In post 36, TheIrishPope wrote:it's to be read as Town when Town

This should not be your main goal as town

TheIrishPope · Post Post #38 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:55 pm

Weeeeeeeeeell
If you aren't read as town by others how will you convince them your opinion is the right one?

Metal Sonic · Post Post #39 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:33 pm

In post 27, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 23, Zachrulez wrote:What I mean to say is that it would require a lot more effort and energy than my actual town game does, because I'm not playing town, I'm pretending to. It means I have to identify all my town indicators and emulate them. There's a lot more to that than just being town.
That's what you need, though. Dropping your Town game to match your scum game is NOT the answer.

damn me i was doing it the wrong way the whole time

Hoopla · Post Post #40 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:33 am

In post 31, Zachrulez wrote:Well being transparent as town does have it's benefits when I draw town. It's just the other 25% or so of the time that I don't...

there's no value in being transparent as town. you just end up being nightkilled earlier and not making it deep in games where you have more control over the fate of the town.

mykonian · Post Post #41 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:01 am

In post 23, Zachrulez wrote:What I mean to say is that it would require a lot more effort and energy than my actual town game does, because I'm not playing town, I'm pretending to. It means I have to identify all my town indicators and emulate them. There's a lot more to that than just being town.

I've probably said this before, but I believe playing like this is wrong. You don't want to play like you are town. Beyond the effort bit and knowing your meta perfectly, when you play as town you play to find scum. If that gets you nightkilled or lynched, you aren't that disappointed, as long as you found scum. As scum, you want to avoid being lynched. It's literally your only job. Don't try to match your town meta (you'll never manage anyway), try to be the town they want you to be. You want to be better than when you are town. You want to play like that super town that never gets lynched.

The focus shouldn't be inwards (what would I do when I'm town), but outwards (what do the players in this game want to see from me). That might be easier, but it's at least a lot more fun.

Cheery Dog · Post Post #42 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:24 am

In post 36, TheIrishPope wrote:The main goal is not to be hard to read

But my playstyle says it is. I don't know why people have trouble, but they always seem to do so. I therefore assume it's how I should play as me being understandable doesn't happen anyway.

TheIrishPope · Post Post #43 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:35 am

In post 40, Hoopla wrote:
In post 31, Zachrulez wrote:Well being transparent as town does have it's benefits when I draw town. It's just the other 25% or so of the time that I don't...
there's no value in being transparent as town. you just end up being nightkilled earlier and not making it deep in games where you have more control over the fate of the town.

Happy birthday

In post 42, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 36, TheIrishPope wrote:The main goal is not to be hard to read
But my playstyle says it is. I don't know why people have trouble, but they always seem to do so. I therefore assume it's how I should play as me being understandable doesn't happen anyway.

Post more and enunciate your ideas better, and tie in and follow up other people's opinions to gain trust and such like

Lost Butterfly · Post Post #44 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:42 am

In post 32, Oversoul wrote:Well that wouldn't be true would it? Theoretically, you would be "transparent town" as scum, meaning your transparency would no longer make it beneficial for your town game. Am I approaching this from the wrong way?

Nah, you'll still get read as town most of the time/early game at least. Even if your scum game is good, people will assume they can read you most of the time.

Zachrulez · Post Post #45 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:53 am

In post 41, mykonian wrote:
In post 23, Zachrulez wrote:What I mean to say is that it would require a lot more effort and energy than my actual town game does, because I'm not playing town, I'm pretending to. It means I have to identify all my town indicators and emulate them. There's a lot more to that than just being town.
I've probably said this before, but I believe playing like this is wrong. You don't want to play like you are town. Beyond the effort bit and knowing your meta perfectly, when you play as town you play to find scum. If that gets you nightkilled or lynched, you aren't that disappointed, as long as you found scum. As scum, you want to avoid being lynched. It's literally your only job. Don't try to match your town meta (you'll never manage anyway), try to be the town they want you to be. You want to be better than when you are town. You want to play like that super town that never gets lynched.

The focus shouldn't be inwards (what would I do when I'm town), but outwards (what do the players in this game want to see from me). That might be easier, but it's at least a lot more fun.

Generally my goal as scum is to hurt the town while looking town doing it. The might struggle is the whole looking town part. I basically have too many people that are so familiar playing with me I almost literally can't get away with anything that deviates from my town game.

It's probably necessary for me to play with alts, but I just don't want to actually do that... argh.

GreyICE · Post Post #46 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:08 am

To be fair, I'd rather have a player who can't scumhunt and is good at signalling town than a player who can't scumhunt and no one on earth can tell their alignment.

But players who just post unfiltered stream of consciousness and can't scumhunt don't look town when they do that. The stream of consciousness is worthless as either alignment, and they know it.

Josh_B · Post Post #47 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:36 am

I read your post and I translated it using google boasting recognizer. It came out like this.

I'm so awesome at mafia but no one believes me that I can single handedly win as both town and scum. My confidence level is through the roof and people keep lynching me for it. Why are people lynching me when I'm so awesome?

Answer from Ask: Stop being so sure of yourself. It's a sign that you already know who is town and who is on your team which is something that Mafia can do.

If you're town, encourage others to figure out the scum and sheep them. If your scum, encourage others to figure out the scum and sheep them. Everyone knows that sheeping works both ways.

Oversoul · Post Post #48 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:30 am

Still not sure how not playing as town as you normally would is playing against your win condition. It isn't like you aren't playing towards it all, just not as much, which happens to every single player at some point through out the game (I.e lurking, not motivated).

SleepyKrew · Post Post #49 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:38 am

In post 48, Oversoul wrote:Still not sure how not playing as town as you normally would is playing against your win condition. It isn't like you aren't playing towards it all, just not as much, which happens to every single player at some point through out the game (I.e lurking, not motivated).

I think it's because some people take "play as I would as town" to mean do

exactly

as you would. Like, if you see a buddy do something scummy that no one else has picked up on, it's unnecessary to jump on them and derail a mislynch, even if you would have pointed it out if you were actually town.

Also people discourage this to discourage the not looking at Role PM thing (which I think actually is against the rules), but I don't think that's really a problem?