Self-Voting: Why, barring setup, you should never do it

[kuribo]

when people stop reading me as town for self-voting, i'll stop doing it

[kuribo]

So do both of you do it as both alignments?

dunno bout him, but I do




As town: when someone pisses me off sufficiently that one of us has to die in order for the game to move forward, I call for my own lynch and self-vote
As scum: When someone calls me scum sufficiently that one of us has to die in order for me to win the game, I call for my own lynch and self-vote


It works in the first situation because people see suicidal anger as town.
It works in the second situation because people have seen me exhibit suicidal anger as town.

[kuribo]

You can't really say that only bad players self vote: although I don't consider myself a "good" player, I've found self voting works for me (and it's a good thing I'm retired because it will never work again after this)

If it works and isn't blatant cheating, then it's hardly a bad play. If it annoys you, the solution is to get people to stop reading folks as town for doing it.

And it's not necessarily playing against your wincon: if someones presence in a game is toxic to the wincon, you have every right to lynch them and remove that poison from the game. Even if that poison is a town read. Even if that poison is you.

The right lynch is the lynch that benefits town most by removing distractions, by being on obvious scum, any number of reasons. I've long advocated that sometimes you'll need to lynch someone you think is town. And sometimes you are the problem and should probably die.

[kuribo]

Yes, sometimes. I said as much in that very post. Hence the justification in self voting if you believe your death would help further your wincon.

[kuribo]

I suppose I should point out that I've only been mislynched twice in 7 years on this site, so maybe that advice doesn't apply to everyone else.


What does apply is that self-voting still furthers my wincon 99% of the time by convincing people I'm town.

[kuribo]

kuribo is kind of a weird special case here because I think he would legitimately consider his own playstyle toxic and worth policy lynching in some situations

Yah that's kinda one of the reasons I retired


It's toxic to the game state, to the other players' enjoyment, and to myself. It's very draining. It lessens the site as a community, myself as a player, and all of us as human beings.

[kuribo]

I should also mention that I wouldn't actually ever leave my vote on myself long enough to get lynched as any alignment

There's a difference between lynching yourself and pushing wagon on yourself


They want me strung so bad, they'll have to finish the job themselves

[kuribo]

I would posit that the reason this ever "works" for scum (along with a whole host of other 100% anti-town behaviors) is because it tends to be read as "too obviously anti-town to actually be scum."

wrong, it works because scum is generally seen as being in control of the situation, while emotional and suicidal outbursts are seen as frustrated town. this doesn't just apply to self-voting, it's part of a larger number of actions that people consider to be the result of irrational emotional response


this is why we have "scum flail" behavior and "town flail" behavior---- both sides flail but the way they do it and the motivation behind both is different

[kuribo]

Well, so you agree it's often bad - which means my view is often right - so we're really just disagreeing on a very specific set of instances then, yes? Is it mostly the "Day will bog down so self vote to speed it up" thing? Because I think you could speed up your own lynch without a self vote, personally. If it's something else then could you clarify?

Thor, I believe no one is arguing that you should self-vote barring a very specific set of instances. People are just arguing that at very specific times, self-voting can be a good thing.

I think it fails to point out that there's a HUGE difference both toward intent and result between the two actions of "self-voting" and "self-lynching"

[kuribo]

I'd still counter that "good players don't rage self-vote" is a fallacy when it's demonstrable that it works on a consistent basis.

Say what you want about "people shouldn't townread folks for that," but if they do and it works, then why wouldn't you?

[kuribo]

you gotta play to win, not to make a point, right?

Just out of curiosity.

When a player says 'I don't care anymore, lynch me!' and self votes.
There are two possibilities.

1. They are scum working an angle - optimal pro town move is to lynch them.
2. They are twon who already has some suspicion on them, has no way to justify or defend it, and would prefer drama to scumhunting - optimal pro town move is to lynch them.

What am I missing here?
Like, say I claim Miller and after a mass claim there are no claimed Cops. Regardless of my alignment I'm a pro-town lynch.
Just because town does something that makes killing them pro-town does not preclude it from being pro-town and it does make the goal to avoid town making pro-scum moves because *that* is playing to win.

you act as if only scum can FAKE suicidal frustration


town can, too