New Queue Structure Proposal

[wgeurts]

My full thoughts on this:

We need to remember what the aim of the normal queue is; a queue where games are run which don't contain any wacky or unbalanced mechanics or roles. The games here should be for people wanting to play a game knowing that it will be balanced. I feel with the open-setup queue this has become obsolete, people play the setups there knowing that they are balanced and flavour is allowed. Anyone can have a shot at making an open setup and anyone can get it reviewed where as the normal setup games have a fixed whitle list and no flavour. It's obvious why people won't choose normal games; what would you choose if your looking to mod or join a game, flavoured balanced setups with a lot of variety or flavourless games with a lot of restrictions. In my oppinion flavour should be allowed and them games really become just that, theme games so "Harry-Potter Mafia" really based off harry potter and not just "Normal setup with name changes". Theme games should be really themed and not just games plus a little flavour, a theme would need a lot of dedicated flavour on one subject or theme. At the moment setups in the theme can have little flavour and are just there because mods want the freedom to make their own setups and mechanics, this is already a sign something is wrong. Many of these games are fairly balanced and could run perfectely.

The way to fix this is get rid of the white list entirely and allow all possible setups, however a mod may not run without reviewed approval from some comity or board. This would give the mods the freedom they desire and the players the knowledge that the game they will play is deemed normal by a group of reviewers. This would keep the essence if the normal queue while adding more freedom to the mods.
I know the sterilised mafia supporters will disagree with this however we need to look at the facts; the normal queue is getting a lot less games through then most other queues, especially the large normals.

As for new mods; I fully support the idea of having new mods run newbie games with an experienced co-mod to help an guide them.

Also a board wouldn't have to be too large, let it contain some sterilised supporters and some freedom supporters so that the normal review board wouldn't just become a white list check group again.

[wgeurts]

Lol, mafia has really become politics.

[wgeurts]

Well I kind of said some stuff in my post about the open queues effects, has nobody read my post?

[wgeurts]

I believe fixing normals would just require the NRG to gain more power and the white-list to loose all power. If we have experienced reviewers who know their stuff they could pass or fail a game setup only on balance, not on wether or not A is not in it and B is. The white list is there to balance, not to rule with an iron fist. It worked for a while however people want freedom so freedom needs to be given while still keeping the balance. A normal game is meant to be normal in the way that players don't have to worry about some unbalanced crazy bastard game. However they don't want the same over and over again and really want to test their own ideas, however they can't. IMO that's why the themes have so many more users.

[wgeurts]

The white list is absolutely there to rule with an iron fist. It's there to assure players they won't be blind sided by anything.

Instead of the white-list ruling with an iron-fist and the NRG checking it the NRG could rule with an iron fist and the white-list would be a useful list for players to use. Lets face it, there are cases even unbalanced roles can be balanced.

[wgeurts]

Also, what's up with the 3 month wait for modding?

[wgeurts]

What? How is that relevant? The stated purpose of the NRG is not balance. Reviewing for balance is optional

That's where my problem is.
Normal games should be balanced in my oppinion and should pass a balance test always.
Theme games should be just games where crazy unbalanced stuff can be used.
Flavour should be allowed in all.

[wgeurts]

All games should be balanced. The intent of themed games isn't them being horribly unbalanced.

Not really, some people enjoy madness and the likes. Themes should be possible anywhere, flavour in any game. Theme should get a name change and become a queue where not approved to be balanced games can be run.

[wgeurts]

No? I highly doubt any large % of the current user base wants that. You've been around for a month. Stop stating how things should be.


Edit: And I mean the point of role madness shouldn't be an unbalanced game, it should be a swingy one.

Role madness is swingy and therefore would probaly be seen as unnormal, I've read in the normal guidelines that they are recommended for theme queues and may be turned down. Flavour doesn't make an over all huge impact what so ever, does it change how everyone playes the game? No.
Flavour is great however it should be allowed in all queues where as normals should be, well, normal, balanced and based of skill not some PR or mechanic. There are some "pick your own role" games and people play them, these kind of game and others that are more "swingy" shouldn't go in normal.

Also, I may be new however that says nothing. I've gone over litteraly every setup in the wiki and sorted every one of them. I know how the whole queue system works and the likes through this as well, don't turn to insults if you've got nothing better to say.

Summed up:
In my oppinion normals should be non-swingy balanced games that are based of skill not luck.
Themes and flavour should be allowed everywhere.
There should instead of theme queue be a queue for more swingy games or bastards.

[wgeurts]

@wgeurts: Let's pretend I'm a player who likes pure mafia. I don't want to deal with creating a good fake flavor claim. If we allowed flavors in normals, how would you enable me to play the game in a way that doesn't force me to know flavor/come up with a flavor fake claim.

True point, flavour in the normal queue should then be fully original and not based off anything.

[wgeurts]

Guys calm the hell down, it's obvious llama wants to keep it as ot is and it's obvious reck disagrees. You need to agree to disagree.

[wgeurts]

For what reason can one not run a normal game with flavor in the mini theme queue

You can, but according to many it doesn't happen. I'm not going to make a statement on this as I'm new.

[wgeurts]

Also just read here that flavour is allowed as long as it has no bearing on the play of the game. It's not allowed in role PM's but I don't see why this is such a problem.

[wgeurts]

Also just read here that flavour is allowed as long as it has no bearing on the play of the game.

The next line down is what people are wanting changed.

Ah, I've been misunderstanding the whole situation then.
Still would like a change to how something is deemed normal though.