Alts and You: A Discussion

[Shmugen]

I'm not sure why alts are allowed and would like someone to explain how alternate accounts aren't just a form a cheating through purposeful meta dodging?

First, alts I like:
*Public alts, like you might make for a theme game you enjoy.
*Secret alts, like the kind Reckoner makes and then ruins after a year by forgetting which account he's on. You go through the motions, do your newbie game or whatever, and have a different account.

Alts that seem like cheating:
*Anyone who uses an alt just to keep their identity secret or lead someone into thinking they're a player they aren't. This includes anyone let into a game who obviously doesn't meet the requirements, or was made a week ago, or whatever.

While I don't employ it often, meta is a tool and one of the things I like about this site. Purposeful, blatant circumvention of it doesn't seem like it should be allowed.

[Magua]

So you like it when Reckoner does it, and you don't like it when anyone else does it, then?

[zoraster]

Doing a newbie game as a newbie alt IS cheating.

[Vi]

Doing a newbie game as a newbie alt IS cheating.

This is actually site policy.

Obviously, the rest is nothing enforceable because it involves moderating intent.

With that said, I do see this (as in "hi gaiz I'm an alt BUT I'M NOT TELLING WHOSE") as something that's becoming more than a little annoying.

[zoraster]

The return question is whether the ability to use meta against others should be something that we enforce as site policy.

[Shmugen]

I haven't read up on Reck's case, but my understanding is that the alt didn't show up on the scene and shout 'HEY GUISE I'M AN ALT GUESS WHO LOLOL'.

[Callandor]

Why does that matter? Isn't that worse? He's still trying to dodge his meta he's just being SEKRETIVE ABOUT IT.

Btw gais i'm an alt.

[Vi]

The return question is whether the ability to use meta against others should be something that we enforce as site policy.

And the answer is probably "no".

@Calendar (misspelled) - I think the major complaint is against

obnoxious

alts.

[Callandor]

Alts that seem like cheating:
*Anyone who uses an alt just to keep their identity secret or lead someone into thinking they're a player they aren't.

how is this not what reck did in the example you just gave in alts that are ok?

if you're all HEY ALT you're not even trying to be secret you just want to play under an alt for whatever reason (boredom with mafia, try something different, more reasons that don't come to mind)

[Callandor]

@Calendar (misspelled) - I think the major complaint is against

obnoxious

alts.

is it what shmugen's complaining about though? shmugen says he thinks they feel like cheating which seems completely seperate

now maybe you don't like obnoxious alts and that's fine because i don't like you. GRR look at how obnoxious i am being . but seriously there's plenty of obnoxious main accounts so it's like w/e imo

[Faraday]

sepia's horrible though.

+ IMO most 'secret' alts are easy to work out (+ it's fun to try and work them out)

[Shmugen]

Vi has the right of it, essentially.

*conjecture*There's pressure associated with being Reckoner. People expect him to yell and be his usual goof self, which likely takes a certain mood. If Reck wants to play a more low-key game, or just play casually without feuding with someone, he can't, as the second he's out of character everyone's up in his grill. He makes an alternate account and plays some normal games and enjoys himself. No harm done, as far as I can tell, as the worst crime someone can accuse him of is tricking someone into underestimating a player, which no one should do anyway.*/conjecture*

Perhaps cheating was a strong word. Take a blacklist, for example. If anyone is let into any game due to being an alt, I feel as though I have a right to know who I'm playing with if they're not having any pretense of being someone else. Reck did.

[Faraday]

Why do you think people create alts?

[Faraday]

I mean the reck case seems a great example of what you're against about alts. i am still confused on that

[Shmugen]

Mostly for the sort of situation I mentioned in that conjecture. Perhaps to get a fresh start, emphasis on fresh. The purpose of which is defeated by announcing you're an alt or using your 'old' experience to get into a game your new account isn't qualified for.

My concept of Reck's alt is that it was a separate account, with a separate meta built up. Part of bigger games that require experience is the implied notion (no idea where I got this, for the record) that the players in it have been around, that you can do the meta research on them, etc.

I do use sepia, for the record.

[Faraday]

Mostly for the sort of situation I mentioned in that conjecture. Perhaps to get a fresh start, emphasis on fresh. The purpose of which is defeated by announcing you're an alt or using your 'old' experience to get into a game your new account isn't qualified for.

It's not really defeated, though? There are enough players you could be that it still allows you to do things differently and with different expectations.

[CastleCrasher6]

I'm going to take a wayward guess that this post was directed towards me. I have told the Mod of our still-pending (meaning in Sign-Ups) game who's Alt I am, only for the sake of requirements. If it weren't for that, I would not of even told him whose Alt I was. I did ask him not to reveal who I am, as it would ruin the fun and orderliness of his game, and I don't want that. I want a nice clean game, on a nice, clean slated account. Since I did take some time off before moving onto this account, he did ask that I be on my best behavior in terms of activity, but obviously I will try to be on my best behavior in terms of playing the game and having fun, too.

Please refrain from making useless threads about me from now on.

Thanks,
- CastleCrasher6 -

[Shmugen]

It boils down to intent, I suppose. Still conjecture, but Reck made his alt to avoid a playstyle he developed for himself, and not in an attempt to win more games but in an attempt to enjoy the game again. Others are showing up, using their experience from their main account to get into games to be untraceable.

My point about blacklists stands.

P-edit: You aren't the only one, birdman.

[CastleCrasher6]

It boils down to intent, I suppose. Still conjecture, but Reck made his alt to avoid a playstyle he developed for himself, and not in an attempt to win more games but in an attempt to enjoy the game again. Others are showing up, using their experience from their main account to get into games to be untraceable.

My point about blacklists stands.

P-edit: You aren't the only one, birdman.

Yeah, but I doubt you would of made this useless thread if it weren't for you not just dropping the subject in the Sign-Ups thread.

[Shmugen]

I did drop the subject in the sign-up thread. I dropped it here where it belongs. As it troubles me to see this rising trend, I object to the thread being called useless.

[Kublai Khan]

First, alts I like:
*Secret alts, like the kind Reckoner makes

No.

[Vi]

Yeah, but I doubt you would of made this useless thread if it weren't for you not just dropping the subject in the Sign-Ups thread.

Maybe if someone else says it...

This thread isn't All About You. You are not being directly persecuted. Please stop insisting otherwise.

[Kublai Khan]

First, alts I like:
*Secret alts, like the kind Reckoner makes

No.

Actually, let me explain instead of leaving a vague link to a game.

In that game Reck was playing under a secret alt called "[winger]". During Day 1, he fucks up and posts under his main account. He then used his Reckputation to destroy the wagon he had on him, lynch scum and pretty much win the game nearly single-handedly.

Since I was scum in that game, I can definitely understand the hatred towards those that keep their meta secret by playing under an alt. If I'd known winger was Reck at the beginning of the game, my strategy would have been different. But it's part of the site meta. If alts and replacements weren't allowed, scum would win more games.

[Shmugen]

I see where you're coming from, but on the whole, I'd rather have Reck on the site than not. On the same page where he outed himself, he talks about how his playstyle had become a distraction and he un-retired due to having winger and having fun again. I mean, ideally there wouldn't be silly hero worship and people suspicious of [winger] would have stayed suspicious of xReckonerx.

[Faraday]

So what's the difference between that and someone wanting to have fun again but being an obvious alt? I don't see one (or at least one that leads to them being trated different)