Large Theme Survey Results (up to 9/13)

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Large Theme Survey Results (up to 9/13)

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sat May 18, 2013 11:45 am

Post by zoraster »

One of my missions as the Large Theme Listmod is to try to get more successful games. In order to do that, I've been surveying players after each Large Theme game has finished with a number of questions. You may have received one or more of these PMs asking if you'd take a moment to fill them out. The primary questions of interest to me ask players how strongly they agree with the following statements, 1-10 with 10 being the highest.

Spoiler: Statements
The game was fun
The moderator performed well overall
The moderator did a good job keeping up to date with vote counts
The moderator dealt with interpersonal problems well
The flavor was well done
The setup was balanced
The mechanic was great
I would play a game by this moderator again


I shortened these to: game was fun, mod overall, vote counts, problems, flavor, balance, mechanic, and play in another.

I have received about a 70% response rate last I counted. I really appreciate this, and I hope you all will continue to give such valuable feedback.

Results So Far

Right now I have 12 games in the bank, with a roughly 70% response rate.

Raw Totals

Image

As you can see, balance is the lowest metric as well as the metric that shows the most deviation (1.26 std deviation for those that care).

Keep in mind that just because someone answered that they thought balance was a problem doesn't make it so. There are really too few games to make any definite judgments based on the correlation between factors, but as it stands the mafia winning and players saying that the balance was good is strongly correlated. This is at first surprising (you'd think the more people who lose, the worst the balance gets rated), but it's not a stretch to say our players and mods tend to think games are more town-sided than they are.

Other Correlations

Some of the strong correlation between factors are:

Play in Another-Mod Overall. Hardly a surprise. These two are two sides of the same coin.
Balance-Play In Another
Vote Counts-Mod Overall. This is like the quintessential "are you modding well" test. Interestingly, play in another and vote counts only have a moderate correlation.

The highest correlation for "Fun" is actually the Mechanic. Beyond that, most are only slight or moderately correlated with fun.

Again, there have only been a dozen or so games played and rated so far, so these numbers will likely change.

Qualitative Analysis


As you may have seen, I don't just ask for people to rate games. I ask them for their comments too. This has been
extremely
helpful in getting a handle on what player common complaints are and what they wish we, as mods, would do better. A sampling:

1.
Vote counts.
Even some highly rated games have come in with these complaints. We've also had complaints from a few people that feel mods are waiting too long to edit in a vote count into their posts.

2.
Taking too long to post day and night scenes
. This one I've seen in a number of games. I think everyone understands it can take a while to put together a good scene when you're dealing with flavor, but it's important to know that excited players can become less excited when they have to wait a day (or in some cases as many as 3) after the supposed deadline to get a flip.

Mod Ratings

For moderators of Large Theme Games


Moderators may PM me to get a summary report (with letter grades) by category of what their players said. This will only be used in aggregate, and confidentiality will be maintained. These letter grades are roughly curved with a B as average.

Please keep in mind that almost without exception I think that moderators are performing to a "good enough to mod" standard. But I think we can all strive to do better with what we do. So a sub-average rating does not necessarily mean I or anyone else thinks you're a failure (in fact, even games that are below average still have more people agreeing with the "I'd play in another" statement than not). So take the reports in the manner they're intended: to give guidance on how to improve your players' experience next time.

Also, keep in mind that
this is completely optional.
You are not required to see your results as a moderator, and I will not think less of you if you do not do so.

Conclusion


Overall, mods are doing pretty well. The marks are relatively high on an absolute basis. We could do better, of course, but we're not doing badly at all.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT ALL RESPONSES ARE CONFIDENTIAL. I WILL ONLY USE THE AGGREGATE RESULTS OF SURVEYS.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sat May 18, 2013 1:02 pm

Post by Faraday »

Cool. I was actually curious as to the results.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sat May 18, 2013 2:57 pm

Post by MonkeyMan576 »

Can I see the results for Meta Playstyle mafia?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sat May 18, 2013 5:21 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Have you added "I abstain" or the like for questions yet?

I know there have been some where I just answered "5" because it forced me to answer something I didn't pay any attention to/have an opinion on/etc
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 12:42 am

Post by JacobSavage »

There's an N/A box.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Mon May 20, 2013 2:12 am

Post by Zachrulez »

I'll be honest. I didn't do the survey because when I looked through it, it looked so much like the homework and tests I hated so much throughout high school...

That said...
In post 0, zoraster wrote:
Qualitative Analysis


As you may have seen, I don't just ask for people to rate games. I ask them for their comments too. This has been
extremely
helpful in getting a handle on what player common complaints are and what they wish we, as mods, would do better. A sampling:

1.
Vote counts.
Even some highly rated games have come in with these complaints. We've also had complaints from a few people that feel mods are waiting too long to edit in a vote count into their posts.

2.
Taking too long to post day and night scenes
. This one I've seen in a number of games. I think everyone understands it can take a while to put together a good scene when you're dealing with flavor, but it's important to know that excited players can become less excited when they have to wait a day (or in some cases as many as 3) after the supposed deadline to get a flip.
I'm not sure the exact level of complaints about vote counts, but I do know as a mod that I actually do expect I'm going to be late on vote counts a couple of times in the game due to a variety of factors that have to do with how busy I am irl and also how quickly the posting is going in a game.

Day and Night scenes should average around a few hours from the deadline/lynch. More of my issue comes from night scenes. My experience tends to be that a game will open from night 8-12 hours after the deadline on the same day... if you're lucky. If you're not, you might be waiting a while. (The worst game I was ever in had a 2 week night... and I'm not kidding.) We should be aiming to be no more than a few hours off, but it seems 8-12 hours off or more seems to be the norm. It's one of my pet peeves as a player.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Mon May 20, 2013 2:22 am

Post by zoraster »

complaints on vote counts varied by games. Most of the comments there were simply "more vote counts" and the like. I don't think people mind the odd missed vote count.

Speaking as a player, the only time it really bothers me is when several times in a single game I feel like the mod has simply forgotten about us and I simply don't know what the vote count is (so with 3-5 players left vote counts aren't as important to me). I think what happens to some mods is that they get a little behind on vote counts and so it becomes a lot more work (updating two pages of votes is not hard. updating 10 takes a while), and so they put it off until they have more time, which leads to even more work, etc.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon May 20, 2013 12:33 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 6, zoraster wrote:Speaking as a player, the only time it really bothers me is when several times in a single game I feel like the mod has simply forgotten about us and I simply don't know what the vote count is (so with 3-5 players left vote counts aren't as important to me). I think what happens to some mods is that they get a little behind on vote counts and so it becomes a lot more work (updating two pages of votes is not hard. updating 10 takes a while), and so they put it off until they have more time, which leads to even more work, etc.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:22 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 0, zoraster wrote:I have received about a 70% response rate last I counted.
For the record, your response rate would have been slightly higher had you actually kept the survey on /in-vitational 15 open long enough for me to answer it. You sent the survey on Saturday, and by the time I logged in on Monday to receive the survey, the survey was already closed.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:33 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

will those results are shared to public? just out of curiosity am asking.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:15 am

Post by zoraster »

Well... This is pretty public already. If you mean am I going to release individual game mod'a results to the public, the answer is no. At most ill do a top 3 or 5 or something when I have enough that not being in the top 3 or 5 isn't seen as a slight. The point is to improve mod behavior, not to be a source of drama and gossip.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:21 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Oh i see thank you... Like i said, it was just the curiosity
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by Rob14 »

In post 5, Zachrulez wrote:Day and Night scenes should average around a few hours from the deadline/lynch. More of my issue comes from night scenes. My experience tends to be that a game will open from night 8-12 hours after the deadline on the same day... if you're lucky. If you're not, you might be waiting a while. (The worst game I was ever in had a 2 week night... and I'm not kidding.) We should be aiming to be no more than a few hours off, but it seems 8-12 hours off or more seems to be the norm. It's one of my pet peeves as a player.
This. It is horrible to place a deadline at a time you won't be able to get online. I personally always write up scenes as soon as I can reliably know who will die or whatever during the night and post them EXACTLY when the deadline hits. Not everyone can be on at that exact time, but scenes should be prewritten and should go up within a few hours of the night deadline, in my opinion.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:21 pm

Post by Faraday »

right but you'll occasionally get things like last minute kill changes which make that impossible
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:23 pm

Post by Faraday »

er to get them up immediately, that is.

you place your deadlines for 48/72 or whatever and get on as soon as you can afterwards (which should always be fairly soon, really)
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:37 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 13, Faraday wrote:right but you'll occasionally get things like last minute kill changes which make that impossible
So then you deal with the change. That's no excuse not to prewrite the scene for the 98% of the time there's no last minute choices.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:59 am

Post by quadz08 »

I usually just write flavor after posting the actual scene, and edit it in later.

Also, I set my night deadlines for x time, with the understanding that there's going to need to be some time for resolving the night actions, especially in complex games (see the Very Recently Completed League of Legends Mafia).
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:11 am

Post by zoraster »

I wouldn't object if mods, especially flavor heavy mods, moved to a system where night lasts for X amount of time, but actions have to be in at X-24 hours. The problem is the feeling of being forgotten almost. in other words, if you say the night is ending on Monday at 20:00 people are going to start waiting for you to post beginning at 20:00. If you post on Tuesday at 20:00, people are going to feel like the mod has taken 24 hours longer than he or she should.

That said, we have had certain instances of people opening days or posting lynch scenes several days after the deadline and that's simply unacceptable.

By the way, once I have 3 or so more games I'll update this. The chart should automatically update.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:44 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

Yeah I try to have flavor up before the night ends but I never let lack of written flavor block a flip
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:47 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

That's just inattentive modding. I'm a pretty flavor-heavy mod and the MOST it has ever taken me to write a non-endgame scene is an hour. If you don't write that fast, you'd better start earlier and accommodate late choices as they come.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:53 am

Post by zoraster »

which is? I don't think saying "Night Actions must be in by Monday at 8am, Day 3 will begin at 8pm" is bad. I think the problem is if you just say "Night actions in by 8am" everyone assumes you'll post your night scene pretty shortly thereafter.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:03 am

Post by mykonian »

In post 13, Faraday wrote:right but you'll occasionally get things like last minute kill changes which make that impossible
The solution is to not put deadlines on the hour. It's a promise that many people cannot keep, so you shouldn't make it.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:05 am

Post by zoraster »

How do you NOT do deadlines on the hour?
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:09 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

1) telling people your thread will open 12 hours "late" is likely to make you look like a bad mod. I start bugging my power roles if they haven't sent me something by ~18 hours before deadline, but they have that time if they need it.

2) Half a day for "mod actions" just kills momentum. If you won't be on in 72 hours because it will be the middle of your work day, then push deadline up (or back) to adjust for it. :roll:

3) If your flavor is going to have zero impact on the game, then do your flips on time and edit in the flavor later. But it still shouldn't take more than an hour, once you get home.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:09 am

Post by mykonian »

On the day? So you'll have an area of about 12 hours where you can open the game (between 2.5 and 3.5 days, for example). That's a promise I am confident I can keep at any time, I should be online somewhere in those 12 hours.

Sometimes you can play forward a little better and find out that on a certain evening you'll be available, etc. But that's not a general thing.
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