A (slightly) in-depth guide for playing well as scum:

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A (slightly) in-depth guide for playing well as scum:

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:26 pm

Post by mastin2 »

So I recently got a PM from someone, saying that I should write a good article on scum play.

Despite my previous threads this year on the subject, I decided I might as well humor them, and go into more depth about play as scum.

Let's start from the beginning.

Know what being scum means. Being scum means you are the informed minority--you know things that the town doesn't. You should use this knowledge to its maximum value. But there's a far larger aspect of being scum: the win condition. You win when players of your faction comprise half of the living playerbase (and this cannot be prevented).

So, play like it. Don't play as a survivor;
recognize that there is a team element of being mafia
. Don't play mafia as if you're a serial killer. Play serial killers as if you're a serial killer. :P

Scum have daychat! Yay!
USE IT! I cannot stress this enough; good use of daychat can make or break a mafia game. Talk to your scumbuddies--let them know what you know about the other players, and what you think of them now. Let them know what you're planning to do. Let them see what you have, and let them give feedback; it can make stronger posts, and allow for MUCH more effective strategizing. You can plan ahead much more effectively, and manipulate things to your advantage far easier.

Seriously, pretty much every single incredibly-dangerous scumteam I've encountered or been a part of possessed daytalk. (Nearly half of my scum games, in fact, were mafia victories as a direct result of it.) Using it is what gave them the ability to do as well as they did. It also allows you to get on more friendly terms with your scumbuddies, a vital skill to master.

(As just one example--in a game off-site, a brand-new player received a scum PM. She was scum with somebody who knew me, though, and he was able to coach her in such a way that she knew how to manipulate me, and did she ever. With my help, they lynched/nightkilled every single town PR and had a perfect win. Not the best moment in my career, but it demonstrates the effectiveness of daytalk.)

Scum don't have daychat...
Maximize the time you DO have. In pregame, tell your scumbuddies who you are, and a bit about your style. Tell them what you know about the other players. Tell them your role if they don't already know. And come up with a plan. It won't be solid (this is the pregame, after all), but it'll be there, and it'll help give you some goals to achieve.

Love thy scumbuddies as much as you love yourself.

And given how much most players love themselves, that's a LOT of love to give. :P You have to treat each other like a family, like a team unit. If you experience dissonance with your scumbuddies, and if you argue, I can almost near-guarantee you're going to fail. Successful scum love each other. Successful scum enjoy working together as a team, and have fun together as a unit, destroying the town. Daychat is one way to immensely propagate this positive behavior, as said above. If you're fighting, you'll be far worse off, as the synergy which creates a successful team will be absent.

Plan ahead!

Think to lylo even on the first day. Remember--it only takes one townie voting a townie in order to win. One thing you'll see COUNTLESS numbers of scum players do is target a specific player and get on their good side. Often, that's all it takes in order to secure that victory in lylo. "In lylo as scum, you have a target audience of one."

Don't get cocky!

You should plan ahead, not
assume
you're ahead. Subtle, but vital, difference; it's the difference between being properly paranoid and anticipating things not going to your plan, and arrogantly thinking your plan is infallible. Part of your plan should be anticipating things not going according to your plan. :P

You need to get to lylo!

So keep yourself and your scumbuddies alive. :P Bussing is overrated, and being the informed minority, you're going to pick up on scumslips from your scumbuddies that a town player would never see. So try to keep them alive; it's much easier than you think.

I can't get a player to back down from me!
It happens, but often-times, it merely requires a change of approach. Try different things. If all else fails, nightkill 'em; NKA is mostly a thing of the past. (It shouldn't be, but it is. :P) Just make sure it's not obvious they were nightkilled because you couldn't convince them to back down. (Meaning, don't overly-focus on the player you intend to nightkill. :P If you have attention on them, make sure you place an equal amount of attention to all other players, so that your attention on them doesn't stick out.)

Who do I try to get lynched?
Don't try--succeed. :P The players you want to get lynched are players who you can see as realistically being lynched, but (this is key!) are NOT seen as easy mislynches by the town. The LAST thing you want to be accused of is opportunism. So, don't aim for the weakest links. Aim for weak-but-not-weakest links, players who are not the first choices, but make GREAT choices as compromise lynches. Speaking of which...

Compromise lynches are your friend.

Seriously, compromise lynches hit town a disproportionately large percentage of the time. :P So, if you can work with the town in trying to reach a common name between them, chances are quite high, the common names they'll have in mind are within your target audience--weaker players, but who aren't the weakest.

Early is generally better than later.

There are a couple of exceptions--if you don't actively push it, and if there's a large wagon on scum at the time you push your wagon. Those factors being absent, being early on a wagon will look better than being late on a wagon, regardless of whether it's on town or scum, because it looks like you're legitimately pushing your read, rather than being opportunistic.

Don't avoid hopping onto a wagon!

Absence from a wagon which you have no reason to be absent from (other than fear of being called out for opportunism) can look even worse than opportunism. If you have a good reason to join, actually join! You can shoot down any accusations of opportunism by pointing out your (truthful!) good reasons for being there.

Make friends.

If people like you, they'll hesitate to lynch you. This is also what I advise doing for the long-run, via that targeting of a specific player to be your audience in lylo. In fact, having multiple people around actually makes things better, so that way your singling out of a player is better masked.

It's night. Who do I kill?
Whoever the heck you want to. Don't worry about doctor protections and the like unless there is some
really damn compelling evidence
that they're present. Many moderators have a reluctance to place said protective PRs in their setups, meaning most of the time, you shouldn't fear them interfering with your kill.

That said, keep your long-term objectives in mind. Ultimately, your goal is to reach lylo and have a town player who is going to vote another town player. So your kills should be focused on eliminating players who hinder that objective.

Another tip--keep in mind, a player who's wrong now won't necessarily continue to be wrong, and a player seen as town/scum may not continue to be seen as town/scum and be reversed into being seen as scum/town. So don't kill a player because you think they're obvtown, and don't leave a player alive because you'll think they'll continue to be wrong and/or be mislynched.

Again, kill them because you think they'll be a hindrance to you. If not immediately, then eventually. (This is why, sometimes, leaving confirmed town players alive is done--because an unconfirmed town player poses a greater risk than the confirmed town player. And it's also why confirmed town typically die mid-game: because of the recognition that their status as truly unlynchable is a hindrance in lylo.)

Our kill failed! Thanks, Mastin!
You're welcome. Now, instead of paranoia about there being a doctor, you have confirmation that there is one. That's a trade generally worth making! You can adjust your nightkill strategy accordingly, now that you know there's a doctor and you have an idea of who the doctor will be targeting. Yes, killing a player without thinking about whether they'll be protected or not has the risk of failing, but the reward is generally worth it, and even in failure, there's success.

What if it wasn't a doctor?
If it's a roleblocker, they're going to out you as being scum, and that not happening presumably means there's not a roleblocker. :P If it's a jailkeeper, there's an ambiguity on whether the kill fails because of being protected or being blocked--this is a double-edged sword you can use to your advantage. If it's because the player is immune to nightkills (even in limited amount), generally, they'll claim this fact in some manner or another. You can always try not killing them again if it's
really
a big concern of yours.

One of my scumbuddies is being strung up! What do I do?
Analyze the situation, and think in the long-term. Do a risk-reward analysis. What will losing them do to damage your faction? What will their death give to benefit your faction? Generally, you need to get TWO mislynches GAINED from the lynch of a scumbuddy, so if you do the risk/reward and don't think you'll get it, try to talk the town out of it. It's surprisingly easy to do; don't assume your scumbuddy's a lost cause. (That said, also don't refuse to join. Join when you think it's necessary.)

I'm in lylo. Now what?
Let the town players destroy themselves. If you followed my advice successfully, one of them will vote the other. Whether you vote first or not is largely dependent on the circumstances, your playstyle, and the playstyle of the other players. But be it them voting first or you voting and them hammering, you should have a town player who's ready and willing to hammer another town player, even if it takes a while to achieve.


Uh-oh. My game's multi-faction. Now what?
There's not much of a difference, actually. You want to take that same approach: what gets you to lylo the fastest, in the most advantageous situation? (That is, your faction outnumbers or has completely annihilated the enemy faction.)

In general, though--
it's a bad idea to assume that the other scumteam will kill who you want them to kill
. They're just as likely to make that assumption about YOUR faction, and as a result, a player you both want dead ends up living because you both thought the other was going to take care of them. :P

So, again.
Kill who you want to
. Don't worry about hitting opposite scum, don't worry about hitting the same kill target as the opposite scum. As long as your scumteam isn't at a distinct disadvantage, you have nothing to worry about.

That said...
pay attention to the opposite scum faction's kill pattern
. If you can pick up on similarities in their kill targets, you might be able to predict who they're killing next, and you can act accordingly.

Don't slip that the game's multi-faction.
This is a biggie. Most town players (short of extreme paranoia) are going to assume single-faction unless they have strong evidence to suggest multiscum. It's not as big of a deal as it used to be (far more town players are making this assumption, and some moderators are making it more explicit that games are multiscum), but it's still an issue you need to be aware of.



If I think of anything else, I'll add it, but that's about all I can think of at the moment.
Last edited by mastin2 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:11 pm

Post by N »

why so many threads?
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:32 am

Post by gorckat »

They're not threads. They're chapters.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:54 am

Post by DoctorPepper »

Mastin probably wrote a book on Mafia theory with all his MD threads :)
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:46 am

Post by kuribo »

I will add my two cents:


drive your partners into the ground and stand alone on a pile of their corpses as they get dragged to posthumous victory
Lynch everyone that dares wagon you and then mock them
Kill people that you fear on a personal level
Know your town meta

No but seriously. Don't always assume that keeping a lurk in the game is the best thing to do. Why? Two reasons:

1) lurkaderps get replaced. Replacements are notorious for picking up stuff that the town missed the first time. The mist you spread through the thread may very well get pierced by the flashlight of a new set of eyes.

2) some lurkers are actually keeping up with the thread. There's a chance they may flip flop on you at lylo. How will you know? They haven't posted! Can you really be sure what they're thinking? And some players have such a strong meta of lurking as town, you will convince no one that its a scum tell at the end of the game.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:35 am

Post by gorckat »

Popping lurks also makes it harder for town to draw good connections to other possible scum.

(ITT we make the mafia our vig-bitches)
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:52 am

Post by Rubicon »

In post 3, DoctorPepper wrote:Mastin probably wrote a book on Mafia theory with all his MD threads :)
if mastin did write a book about this stuff I would read the fuck out of it
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:58 am

Post by Majiffy »

In post 4, kuribo wrote:drive your partners into the ground and stand alone on a pile of their corpses as they get dragged to posthumous victory
Lynch everyone that dares wagon you and then mock them
Kill people that you fear on a personal level
Know your town meta
^ This is precisely how it's done.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:22 am

Post by mastin2 »

Spoiler: Why So Many Threads?
In post 1, N wrote:why so many threads?
Because 2013 has been a very kind year to me in advancing mafia theory. ;)

To elaborate...
-Mega-threads (which is what I did in 2012) were harder to read, and that meant that my insight--no matter how valuable--was lost in the words. However, those same threads broken up into their individual pieces were much, MUCH better received. (Meaning, gorckat's response is actually surprisingly accurate. :P)

-2013 has been inspiring to me. Some magical combination of games I've played has sparked me to create MD threads off of my experiences, be it in general or specific to a single game.

-People don't seem to realize just how much I try to devote to the site. Mafiascum.net has helped define me as a person (and for the better!), and I do my damnedest to return the favor and to help shape mafiascum.net for the better. I don't have the skills necessary to help the site in obvious ways, but I might be able to help the site in more subtle ways, such as my MD threads.

-I realize that some people might laugh these threads off as being "haha, another Mastin thread. I'll pass", but others have told me that the advice I gave in the threads has proved to actually be helpful to them. Those kinds of responses are all the reason I need. If my threads can help so much as a single scummer, then they've helped the site, no matter how little it may be.

(Also--as far as a book goes...one of my mega-threads was basically an attempt to write a so-to-speak digital book on mafia theory. "Mastin's MD Theory Project", for the curious. It was chaotic, disorganized, and fell apart quickly. Was too dang long and unwieldy. Hard to read, harder still to edit. It might be worth revisiting some time in the future [especially now that I've gotten better at being concise], though it's not something I'm doing any time soon. But it's certainly an idea I've thought about and would love to actually make!)
In post 4, kuribo wrote:Lynch everyone that dares wagon you and then mock them
Kill people that you fear on a personal level
Know your town meta

No but seriously. Don't always assume that keeping a lurk in the game is the best thing to do. Why? Two reasons:

1) lurkaderps get replaced. Replacements are notorious for picking up stuff that the town missed the first time. The mist you spread through the thread may very well get pierced by the flashlight of a new set of eyes.

2) some lurkers are actually keeping up with the thread. There's a chance they may flip flop on you at lylo. How will you know? They haven't posted! Can you really be sure what they're thinking? And some players have such a strong meta of lurking as town, you will convince no one that its a scum tell at the end of the game.
These are all actually good tips.

-Killing people who you fear on a personal level is actually one of the things I
do
as scum. For instance, in the recently-completed Wacky Bastard Mafia run by AP, I killed Klick because I feared him, and I killed Bacde because I feared him, and I would have killed ArcAngel9 because I feared her, though the vengeful townie took her out for me. :P Instead, I targeted DrCirno for the nightkill because I feared him more than I feared TIP.

-Knowing your own town meta is essential to manipulating players who
*Will do meta research (pathetically easy, in fact)
*Actually know you. (Not as easy for them, because unlike those doing trivial meta research, these people actually have LEGITIMATE tells on you. :P)

-Killing lurkers is actually a great way to advance your wincon, for all the reasons mentioned. Gorckat also brought up another reason; it prevents connections from being drawn. Plus, it's often a great way to nab a hidden PR or two. Furthermore, more active players tend to go at each others' throats more often than at lurkers throats, so you can more easily encourage town-on-town fights. It's an all-around flexible, useful kill.

-Alright, so you don't really mock them (unless you're kuribo :P), but getting players lynched who are getting in your way is actually a great skill to have. It's easier to nightkill them, yes, but nightkills can lead a trail back to you, in case someone actually
does
do NKA. Whereas with lynches? Yeah, people do VCA, but most people do VCA in entirely-arbitrary (and often-times, therefore entirely-wrong) manners, meaning that their VCA won't be effective in catching you. If you can get people lynched who are standing in your way, you're actually far better off than if you nightkilled 'em.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:08 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 8, mastin2 wrote:Killing lurkers is actually a great way to advance your wincon, for all the reasons mentioned. Gorckat also brought up another reason; it prevents connections from being drawn. Plus, it's often a great way to nab a hidden PR or two. Furthermore, more active players tend to go at each others' throats more often than at lurkers throats, so you can more easily encourage town-on-town fights. It's an all-around flexible, useful kill.
They're also rather unlikely to be kill-protected.

Overall this is a good post, mastin.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:11 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Uhm...

Don't get too ahead of yourself.
Venmar, Hp and I can attest to this one. You may think you have the end-all strategy on day 1, and you may have the easiest win by just one simple lynch, but these games never go as planned. Anything that CAN go wrong for scum, expect it TO go wrong. And it does. Because when it inevitably happens, you'll be prepared.

Shed bad scum partners like you're on Weight Watchers
Nothing is worse than having a scum partner that you KNOW will get you killed. They might buddy, slip hints, coach you or just try to bus you, when it should be the other way around. These need to be killed. Even if you have to personally night kill your own teammate, giving your team the best chance to win comes before anything else, including normalcy. It also helps to occasionally screw over the town's sanity.

Know when you are the extra double chocolate fudge brownie sundae on the scum team.
If you're going to kill the scum team, have a way to make yourself useful, even if it's spreading incredible amounts of wifom. WIFOMing a town player will be incredibly tough for that player especially if you only slips hints here or there that you think they're town. When you die, the town looks closely at your reads and notices a quiet read on a strong 'town' player. You were easy to find as scum, so who's not to trust that you slipped here? Assassinating town players comes in all forms.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:40 pm

Post by mastin2 »

In post 10, Aj The Epic wrote:
Don't get too ahead of yourself.
Venmar, Hp and I can attest to this one. You may think you have the end-all strategy on day 1, and you may have the easiest win by just one simple lynch, but these games never go as planned. Anything that CAN go wrong for scum, expect it TO go wrong. And it does. Because when it inevitably happens, you'll be prepared.
Fair point. Scum should plan ahead, not recklessly assume they're ahead. I can simplify this, though: Don't get cocky. :P Anticipate things going wrong as part of your planning ahead. (I'll edit that in soon enough.)
Shed bad scum partners like you're on Weight Watchers
Nothing is worse than having a scum partner that you KNOW will get you killed. They might buddy, slip hints, coach you or just try to bus you, when it should be the other way around. These need to be killed. Even if you have to personally night kill your own teammate, giving your team the best chance to win comes before anything else, including normalcy. It also helps to occasionally screw over the town's sanity.
This, though, I advise caution on. Sure! Yeah. If you've got a mcqueen as your scumbuddy, definitely worth shedding from your team. :P It'll only do yourself favors. But often-times, it's exactly what I warned against. Bussing is overrated. It's worth a lot less than scum think it is. The town isn't going to be as good at picking up buddy-tells or scumslips as you think they are, because you as the informed minority have a biased perspective on these things. Heck, LYNCHING the scum player might make them catch these things whereas NOT lynching the player will make it so that they never noticed them.

A better way is to communicate with your scumbuddy. For instance, let them know that you don't need help. You don't need them saving you, you don't need them buddying you; you're a competent enough player to not require their "help". If they're a normal rational person, it might work. If they're a mcqueen, well, you know to get rid of them. :P
Know when you are the extra double chocolate fudge brownie sundae on the scum team.
If you're going to kill the scum team, have a way to make yourself useful, even if it's spreading incredible amounts of wifom. WIFOMing a town player will be incredibly tough for that player especially if you only slips hints here or there that you think they're town. When you die, the town looks closely at your reads and notices a quiet read on a strong 'town' player. You were easy to find as scum, so who's not to trust that you slipped here? Assassinating town players comes in all forms.
Again, I advise caution with this. Recognizing you're the weakest link in the scumteam is a great skill, yes. So be willing to take risks as the weakest link--but do so preferably only
after
consulting your scumbuddies about it. They may have ideas to turn you NOT into the weakest link, and they may have ideas which are better than your own crappy ones (generally, being the weakest link means that your ideas are going to suck :P) on how to best make your death further your collective wincon.

And again--wifom can actually be detrimental to the scum, if done poorly. Sometimes, it just doesn't help them, and can actually get town players confirmed as town. Which is a horrible, HORRIBLE thing to happen. :P Wifom if it works is wonderful. Wifom if it doesn't work will bite you in the ass and hinder your team even further. Which, again, is why I take INCREDIBLE CAUTION with this suggestion.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:44 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

In post 0, mastin2 wrote:It's night. Who do I kill?
A point on this. I think killing leaders is usually a wise decision. PR hunting is often diving into speculation that will get the better of you.

You want to kill sane, open minded people who
have the ability to rally support for their beliefs
.

People who are right frequently are a LOT less scary than people who have a lot of sway and are loud.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:49 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

In post 0, mastin2 wrote:Scum have daychat! Yay!
I will say I didn't understand this point until a recently completed game or 3.

Day chat is a lot less about coordinating devious things (although it is useful for that too).

Day chat is about spirit. The BIGGEST THREAT to your scumteam is apathy or lack-of-coordination.

Its really really easy to feel overwhelmed as scum or feel that you are all on your own, ESPECIALLY if your buddies are ignoring you, bussing you, or dead.

The single best use for day chat is to remind your buddies that you love them and, in general, get some fun synergy going. If you hit it off well with your buddies, you are going to have more motivation, feel more natural, and defend each other better.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:57 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

I use day chat to vent occasionally and in other games, take a break from faking. Sometimes, I get so caught up in my role that I do become maniacal in game. Getting the role 'serial killer' always makes me tempted to post Joker quotes, which would in turn get me lynched. (O'course, as an sk, you don't have a qt to begin with... so that's all self control)
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:23 pm

Post by Amrun »

I second AP's thoughts on day chat.

The real key to being successful as scum is simply this:

LOVE YOUR SCUM BUDDIES.

Even if you must bus, do it with the fondest joy.

The more you love your team, the more you will FEEL like a team, the more you will want to win, and the more likely you are TO win.
I survived
Tigerpocalypse 2011


Fusion Mafia, ongoing now.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:04 am

Post by mastin2 »

Adding these:
Seriously, pretty much every single incredibly-dangerous scumteam I've encountered or been a part of possessed daytalk. (Nearly half of my scum games, in fact, were mafia victories as a direct result of it.) Using it is what gave them the ability to do as well as they did.
It also allows you to get on more friendly terms with your scumbuddies, a vital skill to master.
Love thy scumbuddies as much as you love yourself.

And given how much most players love themselves, that's a LOT of love to give. :P You have to treat each other like a family, like a team unit. If you experience dissonance with your scumbuddies, and if you argue, I can almost near-guarantee you're going to fail. Successful scum love each other. Successful scum enjoy working together as a team, and have fun together as a unit, destroying the town. Daychat is one way to immensely propagate this positive behavior, as said above. If you're fighting, you'll be far worse off, as the synergy which creates a successful team will be absent.
Don't get cocky!

You should plan ahead, not
assume
you're ahead. Subtle, but vital, difference; it's the difference between being properly paranoid and anticipating things not going to your plan, and arrogantly thinking your plan is infallible. Part of your plan should be anticipating things not going according to your plan. :P
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:02 am

Post by hp [leaves] »

In post 10, Aj The Epic wrote:Uhm...

Don't get too ahead of yourself.
Venmar, Hp and I can attest to this one. You may think you have the end-all strategy on day 1, and you may have the easiest win by just one simple lynch, but these games never go as planned. Anything that CAN go wrong for scum, expect it TO go wrong. And it does. Because when it inevitably happens, you'll be prepared.
Yes yes yes yes yes. House of cards mafia is the very proof of this. Even though town convinced themselves to actually skip a day, I got randomly vigged and Venmar outed himself.And the survivor didn't even side with us when he could take the easy win
We must embrace the pain and burn it as fuel for our journey.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:04 am

Post by hp [leaves] »

I wish all my speculations were in digital form so I could post them on here
We must embrace the pain and burn it as fuel for our journey.
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