Policy change: Hydras are not allowed in Normal games

[Glork]

more or less (though i imagine you will be told that is an oversimplification or a strawman)

Sure, but it must be possible to actually isolate the argument out of all those lengthy paragraphs, mustn't it?

If it's incomplete, I'd like someone to add the essential part I'm missing.

Hydras are considered non-normal because they are a significant enough mechanical/behavioral deviation from a single player to warrant this new categorization.


^ is basically the argument in a nutshell. Yes, it is arbitrary. There isn't really a way to have a non-arbitrary definition of "Normal" unless we go with the EVERYTHING IS NORMAL or NOTHING IS NORMAL approach, which is simply moronic

And no, it won't please everyone. No definition or inclusion/exclusion list will.


Edit: SKew b& 4 ALLCAPZ.

[SleepyKrew]

i told you it would happen kanye
who knows best now?!?!

(i can still exclaim my question, right?!?!)

[Psyche]

i don't think the banhammer worked skrew is still here maybe you should go for the IP

[SleepyKrew]

glork i don't think the banhammer worked skrew is still here

bureaucratic inefficiency

[Psyche]

damn you skew

[SleepyKrew]

to ban me, first they must gently remove me from kk's marsupial pouch without damaging it
this will be difficult as i intent to put up a fight

[TierShift]

Hydras are considered non-normal because they are a significant enough mechanical/behavioral deviation from a single player to warrant this new categorization.

Of course it's different from a single player, just as a cop is different from a VT. That doesn't mean a cop is non-normal.

I don't see why a single player should be considered 'the norm' and why any differentiation from that means it shouldn't be in a normal game.

[SleepyKrew]

I don't see why a single player should be considered 'the norm'

[kanyeknowsbest]

dangit

[TierShift]

All right, maybe I do. It's just something that needs to be established first.
Thanks for selectively quoting, SK, do you perhaps have the answer to the second part of that sentence?

[SleepyKrew]

You want me to explain why Normal games shouldn't deviate from the norm?

[TierShift]

If 'the norm' means 'the most common', then yes, by all means, try to explain. That's what you're arguing 'the norm' to be, right?

[SleepyKrew]

Actually I think the norm is whatever the NRG says it is. But other people will answer differently. I can't answer your question anyway though; I'm banned.

[Glork]

Hydras are considered non-normal because they are a significant enough mechanical/behavioral deviation from a single player to warrant this new categorization.

Of course it's different from a single player, just as a cop is different from a VT. That doesn't mean a cop is non-normal.

I don't see why a single player should be considered 'the norm' and why any differentiation from that means it shouldn't be in a normal game.

Arguing semantics and word choice will get you nowhere and he really only make you look like a foolish rabble-rouser. Nobody said "any differentiation" from a single player is automatically non-normal, so please stop making up arguments because you personally disagree with the new policy or simply feel like stirring the pot.

[Wake1]

Basically it's not normal for there to be two or more people in one body. 2+ minds in one slot.

Imagine if, in a physical game, 3+ people were in one body, and that body had enhanced physique because of it.

Now imagine, in a mental game, a slot with multiple minds at work. That slot would have far more stamina, because instead of one mind at work, it has multiple, so that when one or two tire out from playing, the other can join in while the others rest, etc. It's a bitch when I have to play/argue against a three-headed hydra, because they're all gonna be against you on whatever it is you're arguing. And you're going to wear out faster than them.

[TierShift]

Arguing semantics and word choice will get you nowhere and he really only make you look like a foolish rabble-rouser. Nobody said "any differentiation" from a single player is automatically non-normal, so please stop making up arguments because you personally disagree with the new policy or simply feel like stirring the pot.

Actually, glork, you're the one arguing semantics here, as my interpretation is identical to your argument except for the word "significant" that you put in front of "difference", while I put "any" there. You

are

saying that a differentiation from a single player is non-normal and you are now trying to deny it.

[Maestro]

I think the norm is whatever the NRG says it is.

[Maestro]

We have the NRG to address issues and prevent the definition of Normal from becoming more arbitrary. So if you have an argument, it shouldn't be that the word "normal" is arbitrary, because IMO that's both not relevant and extremely obvious. If you disagree hydrae are not Normal, say why. Talk about your qualms with a word elsewhere.

[xRECKONERx]

TierShift shit or get off the pot

[TierShift]

We have the NRG to address issues and prevent the definition of Normal from becoming more arbitrary. So if you have an argument, it shouldn't be that the word "normal" is arbitrary, because IMO that's both not relevant and extremely obvious. If you disagree hydrae are not Normal, say why. Talk about your qualms with a word elsewhere.

I want to make an argument that hydras are normal. But the definition of normal changes with every person posting. That's why I want a definition.

I think hydras are normal because I reasonably expect to see them in a mafiascum game.
I agree they complicate things, but as far as I know, more complicated playerslots have nothing to do with normalcy. Some people are arguing it does, though. The argument that a hydra is a role is faulty, as I hope to have demonstrated.
If normal is what a newbie who has only played newbies expects to see in a game, hydras are indeed not normal. If normal is what most of mafiascum expects to see in a game, hydras are normal. If normal is what most of MS likes to see in a normal game, it's a toss-up.

See the difficulty I'm having because I have no idea what the normalcy is that I'm arguing hydras are a part of?

[xRECKONERx]

I agree they complicate things, but as far as I know, more complicated playerslots have nothing to do with normalcy.

player slot

not hydra slot

you're welcome

A hydra is not a player

[GreyICE]

A hydra is not a player

wut

[saulres]

I'm having because I have no idea what the normalcy is that I'm arguing hydras are a part of?

Where have I heard something like that before?

Ah yes.

all games called "Normal" are reasonably balanced and not deviant from what one would reasonably expect in a standard game of Mafia.

I read "a standard game of Mafia" as meaning "anywhere you might play Mafia, including face-to-face." Is that the correct reading of the phrase?

Now I've come to believe that "Normal" here means "What the NRG has decided based somewhat on user input."

@Tierce:

Would you please offer a definition so that the semantics of the terminology can be established to further civil discussion? tia

[SleepyKrew]

civil discussion

Civil War

[phokdapolees]

I agree they complicate things, but as far as I know, more complicated playerslots have nothing to do with normalcy.

player slot

not hydra slot

Since the time it was called a player slot, not a players slot.

Plagiarism