Culmination Of Stuff re: Normals

[reinoe]

I know I've been active a lot in topics regarding normals but the reason why is because I read a post when someone said "Normals are Boring". I don't even remember the post but it struck me. Why would anyone think normals are boring? Even though the roles available are somewhat limited I don't think they're boring and I'm wondering if maybe it's because people don't know what normal games

can be

?

Where are the Traitor vigilantes? Why aren't there more double-voters and hiders? Put two millers/cops/doctors in a game to see what happens.

And I want to ask questions before I run a normal game. Like...

Can you have a groupscum without a nightkill?
Can you have two mafia traitors and only one member of the mafia?
Make a four person neighborhood and put no scum in it. What are people gonna do?

[Nero Cain]

This is slightly off topic but there are also players that find vts "boring". I think its similar and some (most?) players find role madness fun. Scum hunting is also p difficult and relying on night action info is just how some players function i guess.

[Vi]

Where are the Traitor vigilantes?

*scum vig

Why aren't there more double-voters and hiders?

Doublevoter is the next best thing to an Innocent Child in a Normal game, just not as cool. (It doesn't necessarily have to be this way but the prevalence of Mafia Doublevoters is very low AFAIK.)
Hider

probably isn't going to make the cut when the new whitelist comes out.

Put two millers/cops/doctors in a game to see what happens.

This is good advice, though for obvious reasons everyone shouldn't do it.

Can you have a groupscum without a nightkill?

Not in a Normal.

Can you have two mafia traitors and only one member of the mafia?

I think that this can work while preserving the nature of the game of Mafia, it would be shot down for not resembling a Normal game enough.

Make a four person neighborhood and put no scum in it. What are people gonna do?

That depends; are they going to arbitrarily assume that they're all confirmed Town or that at least one of them is confirmed scum?

[reinoe]

I do have a question...

Normal Game
Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Backup (with or without primary role present)


Can there be a backup Jailkeeper without there being a Jailkeeper? Can there be a Deputy without a cop?

[Rob14]

That's literally what it says, so yes.

[Vi]

I do have a question...

Normal Game
Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Backup (with or without primary role present)


Can there be a backup Jailkeeper without there being a Jailkeeper? Can there be a Deputy without a cop?

Yes, though this subversion has been done

to death

.

[reinoe]

I do have a question...

Normal Game
Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Backup (with or without primary role present)


Can there be a backup Jailkeeper without there being a Jailkeeper? Can there be a Deputy without a cop?

Yes, though this subversion has been done

to death

.

The time I've seen it pop up the players said "this game is not bastard and the backup can't exist without the main role". So the players misunderstood the situation.

[GuyInFreezer]

At which point does red herring becomes bastard?

[Riddleton]

At which point does red herring becomes bastard?

Being bastard doesn't mean it's not normal though. Though I suppose typically most players expect most games to be fairly standard if they are not themes. This generalisation can lead people to think there

is

a real cop if there is a deputy. It's misleading in the bad kind of sense as the player does not know it's going to be false/misleading ahead of time.

[reinoe]

At which point does red herring becomes bastard?

Being bastard doesn't mean it's not normal though. Though I suppose typically most players expect most games to be fairly standard if they are not themes. This generalisation can lead people to think there

is

a real cop if there is a deputy. It's misleading in the bad kind of sense as the player does not know it's going to be false/misleading ahead of time.

One thing I've been noticing is that some mods have a "night 0" kill to get their story started. Why not have a "night 0 kill" be the doctor or the cop or whatever other thing? Clever I think.

[SleepyKrew]

Being bastard doesn't mean it's not normal though.

uh

At which point does red herring becomes bastard?

Being bastard doesn't mean it's not normal though. Though I suppose typically most players expect most games to be fairly standard if they are not themes. This generalisation can lead people to think there

is

a real cop if there is a deputy. It's misleading in the bad kind of sense as the player does not know it's going to be false/misleading ahead of time.

One thing I've been noticing is that some mods have a "night 0" kill to get their story started. Why not have a "night 0 kill" be the doctor or the cop or whatever other thing? Clever I think.

That'd be game-relevant flavor.

[Rob14]

At which point does red herring becomes bastard?

Being bastard doesn't mean it's not normal though. Though I suppose typically most players expect most games to be fairly standard if they are not themes. This generalisation can lead people to think there

is

a real cop if there is a deputy. It's misleading in the bad kind of sense as the player does not know it's going to be false/misleading ahead of time.

One thing I've been noticing is that some mods have a "night 0" kill to get their story started. Why not have a "night 0 kill" be the doctor or the cop or whatever other thing? Clever I think.

Except that would make the Nurse/Deputy actually assume a real role, since the doctor/cop died. I'm guessing the NRG wouldn't like that. It's basically making flavor directly impact the game.

[Vi]

What they said.

The idea of a Normal, post-standardization, is that you can ignore flavor entirely and still be 100% functional*.

*However, I think that it would be okay to do what charter did and have a game called "Cops and Robbers" with two Cops in it. I wouldn't complain, anyway.

[zoraster]

i include false backups in my games because it's important for when I want to include real backups. Without the false ones, backups become really powerful rather than a way to reduce swing.

[mykonian]

I do have a question...

Normal Game
Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Backup (with or without primary role present)


Can there be a backup Jailkeeper without there being a Jailkeeper? Can there be a Deputy without a cop?

Yes, though this subversion has been done

to death

.

Oh, I'm a nurse?

chocolate townie, you mean.

[FakeGod]

I prefer French Vanilla

[reinoe]

This is related to a question I asked previously re: mafia doctors...

Do werewolves have guns?

[ika]

This is related to a question I asked previously re: mafia doctors...

Do werewolves have guns?

from what i have seen no, they eat people

[implosion]

Put two millers/cops/doctors in a game to see what happens.

I put two bodyguards in my large normal from 3 years ago.

In general doing things like that is cool, but going into territory like groupscum without a nightkill or multiple traitors with a single mafia member will make the game feel non-normal to the players, even if it is on technicality within the bounds of normalcy. Which is bad, because players who sign up for normal games want games that feel normal.

[Bicephalous Bob]

If the bodyguards had protected each other and one of them got killed, what then?

[implosion]

If they protected each other and bodyguard a was shot bodyguard b would die, because b wasn't targeted for a kill explicitly so a's protection wouldn't activate. If they both protected the same person and that person was shot, one bodyguard was explicitly (secretly) designated as the one whose protection would activate, iirc. Though in retrospect it might make more sense for both to die.

[kanyeknowsbest]

can someon epls create a thread 2 sum up all the normal ideas for perusal,? ty all : ]

[reinoe]

Is a Miller+Vig considered normal?

[N]

It's not not-normal.

[Venmar]

So many rules d00d