Self-Voting: Why, barring setup, you should never do it

[kuribo]

you gotta play to win, not to make a point, right?

Just out of curiosity.

When a player says 'I don't care anymore, lynch me!' and self votes.
There are two possibilities.

1. They are scum working an angle - optimal pro town move is to lynch them.
2. They are twon who already has some suspicion on them, has no way to justify or defend it, and would prefer drama to scumhunting - optimal pro town move is to lynch them.

What am I missing here?
Like, say I claim Miller and after a mass claim there are no claimed Cops. Regardless of my alignment I'm a pro-town lynch.
Just because town does something that makes killing them pro-town does not preclude it from being pro-town and it does make the goal to avoid town making pro-scum moves because *that* is playing to win.

you act as if only scum can FAKE suicidal frustration


town can, too

[Shadowmod]

Spoiler:

Still doesn't change the fact that if you think a player is likely town you shouldn't lynch them.

I wasn't aware I was advocating that, but, sure.
I am advocating that self votes are not a good scumhunting tool and should never be used and ignored when they are.

Don't begin getting soft now, Thor.
If a scum read does it, take it as additional evidence.
If a town read does it, it's time and a good opportunity to question that town read.
If beyond all doubt confirmed town does it, well, what the fuck? Smack them one over the head verbally until they stop it. If they don't, they are probably (hopefully, really!) gambiting, and their gambit, if they have any forsight at all, includes being smacked over the head, verbally, by you, so, now you did them that favour, everything's going according to plan (or not, in which case you should insist on the issue some more post game).

The point here is to make self-voting an extremely inconvenient behaviour, no-matter what, which is the only way of stopping people from doing it without very good reasons.

[Mr. Flay]

I can conceive of NO reason why a beyond-all-doubt-confirmed-Town would get into these situations in the first place. So we seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing, because EVERYONE else could be scum, and thus you should vote them for being anti-town.

[Thor665]

you act as if only scum can FAKE suicidal frustration


town can, too

I will agree town can take a pro-scum action.
I prefer not to dwell on that though.

[SleepyKrew]

This is what D1 policy lynches are for.

[Psyche]

I can conceive of NO reason why a beyond-all-doubt-confirmed-Town would get into these situations in the first place. So we seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing, because EVERYONE else could be scum, and thus you should vote them for being anti-town.

no
my townreads cannot be scum

[Ankamius]

Do you think it helps in any way, or is it just as a 'lulz, joke!' sort of thing?

It gets me attacked, which helps me since I read people attacking me the most accurately.

[Thor665]

But aren't you simply engaging them in a playstyle debate? It's not a legit attack at that stage I would think. No?

[Thor665]

Like, I'd attack you for it, but regardless of my alignment I'd just say the stuff I'm saying in this thread when I did attack you - because that's what I think. Seems like it would be exceedingly difficult to try to grok any underlying edge of attitude from me as far as alignment goes.

[quadz08]

that's because you are you, and not somebody who is not you

[Thor665]

Are you saying when other players debate game meta they change their views depending on their role alignment at the time?
I feel that is not true.

[Marquis]

what
in game or not

because as far as this thread goes i'm a neutral party who believes that generally lynches shouldn't be pushed in order to make a point

[Thor665]

I do not follow how that is a response to me, and if it's a response to someone else I'm not sure who.

[Ankamius]

But aren't you simply engaging them in a playstyle debate? It's not a legit attack at that stage I would think. No?

Well, the main thing is motivation. I work better when I'm being attacked because it's much easier to see motivation of attacks when half of the information is already known. When and how they stop the pressure is just as important.

[Thor665]

Yeah, but the motivation of that one is playstyle based. It's sort of like running in and shouting a slur in a room of mixed company - most will recognize it is meant to be offensive, some will take honest offense while some find it funny, and some will consider it a worse faux pas than others, but that info won't actually tell you much else beyond their reaction to said slur. Maybe *maybe* you could get some sort of 'attitude' feel but...

Do you have any examples of this method working to help the game and/or your reads?

Because it sounds to me like, really, you're just using it as an icebreaker - and there are lots of methods to icebreak in a Mafia game, even if your goal is get attacked' (which, for my money, all you'd need to do is aggressively wagon and vote hop to accomplish that and at least you'd be otherwise helping the gamestate in the meantime.

[Bicephalous Bob]

if you policy lynched a townie for self-voting because your policy is to lynch anyone who did an obviously anti-town thing, then the next step is to push for your own policy lynch and self-vote

GIMME BACK BY WESTERN AANG

I NEED MY STREET CONTACT BACK

Just put the right set of eigenfaces together in your mind and I'm sure you'll get a shoddy representation of my old avi.

[Fluminator]

I strongly dislike town self voting. I recently had a game where two townies self-hammered, despite them having a good chance at not getting lynched. They basically screwed the town over.
The hammer vote is the most telling vote, to deny town of that is poor sportsmanship. Also, a dead townie who self voted is not very credible.

[Fluminator]

Necro posting ftw!