New Options For New Mods

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New Options For New Mods

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:55 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Motive:

Even after being on site for three months, it takes FOREVER to actually mod their first game.

Blame:

The only queues new mods can mod atm are the mini normal queue and the open queue, two of mafiascum's slowest queues (excluding large normals)

Plan:

I propose we change the modding requirements to the following.

Tier 1: Micro Normal, Mini Normal, Newbie Game(Must be with co-mod!), Open Setup
Tier 2: Mini Theme, Large Normal(only if Mini Normal with more than 10p or Open Setup 10p or more was modded), Micro Theme
Tier 3: Large Theme(only if Mini Theme or Large Normal has been run before)

Everyone, after 3 months of experience, starts at Tier 1. To move on to the next tier, you must mod one in the current tier. Special restrictions noted.

Why?

Currently in place the Micro Queue has a Micro Normal queue. This Micro Normal queue allows Micro Normals to jump to the top of the queue. Currently, there is NOBODY using this despite the Micro Queue being the most active queue.

With a 13p game, that generally about 4-5 days if I'm thinking correctly and that's a long time. To have to play under a newer mod for that long is not ideal. Thus, with only 9 player game, players will be more likely to join because it'll be harder to mess up and won't take as long.

The Newbie queue always has a need for more mods. If we allow Newbie queue to fulfill a modding requirement, more players may choose to take that route.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to ask questions and allow me to clarify, but I think it would at least be worth a shot to try it. If we are worried about clogging the micro queue with normals when people just want themes, we can have 3 games in sign ups at once and just lengthen the time people wait for games to fill. (It's gotta be shorter than the current mini normal queue.)

In addition to this, it may be effective to add more members to the NRG and to maybe find a way to streamline the process.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:33 pm

Post by FakeGod »

Isn't NRG frozen at the moment?
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:36 pm

Post by Natirasha »

Apparently :/
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:38 pm

Post by Who »

I disagree with allowing new mods to mod micros. Currently the Micro Queue has a nice short wait, your proposal would make it annoyingly slow.

People don't like normals, all you're doing is infecting a different queue with their lameness.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:42 pm

Post by FakeGod »

I would like to request for the temporary full control of NRG.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Micro should not count towards a full game's experience.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:14 pm

Post by Natirasha »

In post 4, FakeGod wrote:I would like to request for the temporary full control of NRG.

I would second this!
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:00 pm

Post by FakeGod »

Who do I need to PM?
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Post by Natirasha »

The bureaucratic nightmare that will ensure nothing changes.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:41 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 5, xRECKONERx wrote:Micro should not count towards a full game's experience.

I don't see why it's so ludicrous to go from running a micro normal to running a mini theme.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:44 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 3, Who wrote:I disagree with allowing new mods to mod micros. Currently the Micro Queue has a nice short wait, your proposal would make it annoyingly slow.

People don't like normals, all you're doing is infecting a different queue with their lameness.

ONLY Normal Micros. It's basically what they're doing with normal queue currently - 4.

If you just add Micro Normals to what is going on with the current queue, it shouldn't slow things down. If Normals are as lame as you say they are, it won't attract that many people and won't make it "annoyingly" slow.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:40 am

Post by Faraday »

In post 5, xRECKONERx wrote:Micro should not count towards a full game's experience.

Designing and running a mini isn't that different than.designing and running a micro. They both require the same skills.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:40 am

Post by Faraday »

Except 9player games are probably harder to balance!
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:22 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Micros take less commitment.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:27 am

Post by Faraday »

Sure, it's not like they'd go from micro to large game though, so I don't think that'd be that much an issue.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:31 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

I guess that's true.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:28 am

Post by quadz08 »

I don't want new mods doing micro normals because micro normals are fucking impossible to balance. A first-time mod shouldn't be attempting to design a setup with a constraint of that significance.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:32 am

Post by Faraday »

In post 16, quadz08 wrote:I don't want new mods doing micro normals because micro normals are fucking impossible to balance. A first-time mod shouldn't be attempting to design a setup with a constraint of that significance.

How are they impossible to balance?I agree they're harder, and you are definitely limited in the types of roles you include, but a 9 player game isn't close to impossible to balance. Given the amount of debate that happens about balance in mini's, anyway, is this gonna actually make the problem worse? Like, assuming the games are gonna be reviewed - I don't see why that would be an issue.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:34 am

Post by Kagami »

It would be nice if we just had a large corpus of "balanced" normals of any given size that newmods could select among.

Sure, the design aspect goes away, but browsing through a lot of setups to find the one they like most is probably more likely to give them a sense of what is a good setup than going through the NRG.

Then newmodding micro normals would be pretty straightforward and a great way to start.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:38 am

Post by TierShift »

Approve!
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:39 am

Post by Kagami »

(And I think the design space of a balanced mini normal is small enough that any reasonably sized corpus of known-good-setups will span it reasonably well)
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:43 am

Post by Who »

In post 10, BBmolla wrote:
In post 3, Who wrote:I disagree with allowing new mods to mod micros. Currently the Micro Queue has a nice short wait, your proposal would make it annoyingly slow.

People don't like normals, all you're doing is infecting a different queue with their lameness.

ONLY Normal Micros. It's basically what they're doing with normal queue currently - 4.

If you just add Micro Normals to what is going on with the current queue, it shouldn't slow things down. If Normals are as lame as you say they are, it won't attract that many people and won't make it "annoyingly" slow.

The problem is that it would attract mods, because of the requirement, but not players, because of the lameness.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:47 am

Post by quadz08 »

In post 18, Kagami wrote:It would be nice if we just had a large corpus of "balanced" normals of any given size that newmods could select among.

Sure, the design aspect goes away, but browsing through a lot of setups to find the one they like most is probably more likely to give them a sense of what is a good setup than going through the NRG.

Then newmodding micro normals would be pretty straightforward and a great way to start.

Then you're modding an Open setup, not a closed one.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:49 am

Post by quadz08 »

In post 17, Faraday wrote:
In post 16, quadz08 wrote:I don't want new mods doing micro normals because micro normals are fucking impossible to balance. A first-time mod shouldn't be attempting to design a setup with a constraint of that significance.

How are they impossible to balance?I agree they're harder, and you are definitely limited in the types of roles you include, but a 9 player game isn't close to impossible to balance. Given the amount of debate that happens about balance in mini's, anyway, is this gonna actually make the problem worse? Like, assuming the games are gonna be reviewed - I don't see why that would be an issue.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong here. I'll accept the fact that I don't know for certain / have any data that it's actually more difficult to design a balanced normal 9p game than a balanced normal 13p game.

I would consider trying it out if that's the direction enough people want to go, but I'm still unconvinced.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:49 am

Post by Kagami »

If the corpus spans the design space, it is functionally a closed setup.
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