The Pursuit

[Wake1]

Sorry if the title sounds odd to you guys. It's what came to mind just before writing this thread.

In essence, Mafia's an incredibly complex and social game. It's a game that will test you on multiple points of character, while pushing you to uncover who the Scum are.

There is no textbook on how to play this wonderful game. All we have are various articles and opinions on how to play well. Those points can and do differ. There are Mafia theories about, but some of it is unhelpful, while other parts of it continue to change over time.

So, I want to improve.

That makes a person wonder how. Do you adhere to what the articles (if you can find them) say, or do you try to strike it out on your own and work on yourself? Maybe you can even do both.

Personally, I've had to look inward. Since it's a social game, and it requires you to work with other people, there may be some things you can work on to improve your team's chance of winning. For one I've worked to not insult or belittle players in the games I'm in. This can be extremely difficult. Mafia is basically the only thing I know of that has been able to successfully cause the weaknesses in my personality to bubble up to the surface. And why is that? Why do I keep playing these games when I know it's the only thing able to really rile me? I mean, I work with people all day every day caring for them in their homes and in the hospital. Yet, somehow, a simple online messageboard game is what tests the aspects of my personality.

Maybe instead of reading articles that may or may not be solid, I'm thinking it's more the social and psychological aspects that should be adhered to.

However this too is a chore, because just as there are many ways to play Mafia (not to mention opinions), there are also many ways to interact with people and ideas about everything revolving around them.

So, what? Are we simply screwed? Or maybe it's the same deal where someone comes in and says there is no one better way to play the game.

If we assume for a second that that's true, then what? Play according to your strengths while either not revealing your weakness or trying to bolster them?

I am trying to improve.

For some time I've been aware of the quips and the comments and the insults that are rarely if ever told to my face directly. It's always got to be indirect and hush-hush, while being all-too-quick to run away or deflect. You know, if you don't like how I played, or have an issue with some defect in my personality, or didn't quite like how I got bamboozled and goofed in a game, even if it's some 16 months ago, you can tell me to my face, honestly and, I would hope, with some modicum of general respect.

Yes, in Mafia I've had the misfortune of being wrong. It happens a lot. However, I've also been right some times, and I try to keep all possibilities within the current game in mind. If there's a problem with my character, tell me, and I'll work on it. Am I too abrasive? Forceful? Annoying? (On the annoying bit, it's never really been articulated.) If I made a mistake in a game, please forgive me and show me exactly where you think I went wrong (a side of general kindness goes with it better than a side of hatred).

I think, for one, I've changed quite a bit since my early games. Please, stop bringing up games that are well over a year old. If you do this, and have been playing more than 5 years, I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it either. Saying I'm a bad person or a shitty player to other people in various threads is, well, crappy, imo. Some of the things I've done in past games are accurate. Other things said are distortions. Lies. Hyperbole. I'm not going to enter a random thread every time some bitter person curses my name to someone else.

I don't know. It's this sort of vindictive bitterness that I don't really seem to see at the other forums I've frequented. I can definitely understand being pissed when I faked a Cop guilty on a Townie. Believe me I can. But continuously trolling my name indirectly in the chatbox/other threads and games I'm not even part of is pretty low. It does anger me a bit, and I feel like there's not much I can do but continue improving, while being vocal and proactive about the changes I'm looking to implement. There is one issue where, in the past, I replaced out of a lot of games, and othertimes wasn't able to contribute much. Being in healthcare, I've been throttled at times with a huge workload, and can't summon the time and energy to play. Staying at one game at a time sounds about right for me, personally.

An innocuous plan.

For me, personally, suffering with ADD and burdened with an insane amount of work, I've got to cut back. I've talked quite a bit in the games I've played, and shared one to many honest ideas and opinions for little reward. I contribute so much that it seems I rarely get asked questions in the game.

My goal is to cut back tremendously on the energy I expend. I want to only expend energy if it's timely, will be fun for me, and will be worth it. It sucks contributing over 700 posts to a game while trying to find Scum and your reward is being slammed as a Village Idiot. F*** that.

If I start playing very conservatively, I won't feel drained all of the time, and then maybe more questions will start coming my way. I see plenty of player who barely post or say much while being lauded as incredibly good players. The next game I play I'll cut it way back, and am aiming to have everything relevant to the game. I'll not entertain alternate ideas, either, and leave more of it to the rest of the Town when it comes to coming up with all possible ideas. However, I will use a special PT/QT and expend the brunt of my energy into it instead. I'll use that as my notepad, and post in-thread only after going through everything in the hidden thread. Those two ideas will pair well, and I'll throw in not getting personal with other players in-thread. Chances are I'll vent in the hidden thread and likely edit it out should it be linked.

Summary:

1) Very lean, spot-on posts.
2) Place energy into PT first.
3) Don't ever allow yourself to get personal.
4) Wait for the playerbase to grow accustomed to this.

If this can be built upon, please share it here. I don't like losing games, or being treated like crap (whether justified or not). Come next game I'll put these simplistic designs into place.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'd say part of it is recognizing when constructive criticism is just that, and not a personal attack or "trashing" you. You should probably stop calling newbies "sore losers" when they accurately describe your scumplay as "obvious".

another thing is that you tend to come up with reasons for why any criticism someone does give you is wrong. you ignore well-meaning people who are trying to help you in favor of justifying why that isn't the problem, and there must be no solution. you made a thread like this in the past and i remember it pretty much devolving into you being angry at people who did what you asked.

people don't like to play with people who end games by stroking their own egos and avoiding any of their own responsibility in the outcome. this happens time and time again in your games. i know because i've not only seen it, but it is such a problem that i actually HEAR ABOUT IT from other people.

you want an honest answer, this is my honest answer. you can take it in earnest and examine what i'm talking about or ... not.

[Wake1]

I'd say part of it is recognizing when constructive criticism is just that, and not a personal attack or "trashing" you. You should probably stop calling newbies "sore losers" when they accurately describe your scumplay as "obvious".

another thing is that you tend to come up with reasons for why any criticism someone does give you is wrong. you ignore well-meaning people who are trying to help you in favor of justifying why that isn't the problem, and there must be no solution. you made a thread like this in the past and i remember it pretty much devolving into you being angry at people who did what you asked.

people don't like to play with people who end games by stroking their own egos and avoiding any of their own responsibility in the outcome. this happens time and time again in your games. i know because i've not only seen it, but it is such a problem that i actually HEAR ABOUT IT from other people.

you want an honest answer, this is my honest answer. you can take it in earnest and examine what i'm talking about or ... not.

Honestly, I feel that, in spite of the message, there's more than one way of delivering it. It's not what you say, but the way you say it. Constructive criticism, even though it entails both positive and negative comments, is meant to be said in a friendly manner. It's not just the insults that anger me and make me feel like dismissing some criticism, but it's also the tones used. A lot of it feels crass, bitter, or condescending. I'm not a Scumhunting God, and I do make my fair share of mistakes, but I don't lord other players' mistakes over them for months on end, without remorse or cooling off. Imagine if I did. That wouldn't be nice.

It's trashing and trolling when I'm called horrible, bad, stupid, incompetent, or someone says they hate me (I mean really, it's a game), calling me insane, etc. All this does is perpetuate the notion that mafiascum.net harbors a lot of mean, elitist, and bitter players who hold grudges. That's the naked truth of it. You don't see me raging when some Townie dares make a mistake in LyLo. It just makes me want to think in general: "What's wrong with you?"

As for the Mewbie game, I shouldn't have called him a sore loser. However, the player in question shouldn't have been rude, condescending, and insulting, even after losing. You willingly believed, very quickly, his words that my Scumplay is obvious. It's not, and I don't think you should move so quickly to believe it. So it's not accurate, and I'd challenge you to rethink that.

I can be argumentative, because I don't believe things quickly without challenging them, whether within my mind, or publicly. Some of the criticism is crap. Some isn't. The way you speak to me as a human being makes a difference. Calling me a horrible piece of crap while saying I need to be nicer in my games isn't going to make me feel like accepting it. I also think it's really east to say I do that, while not taking into consideration

all

of the criticisms I've received. I have become more mild in my games, and I don't do gambits anymore, especially when it comes to claiming a fake Cop guilty on someone. Other criticisms say I need to stop trying to be so open, and not share many of my unique theories within the game. My meta, from offsite, taught me to be open and to expect members of Town to be open, forthright, and honest.

"Well-meaning" precludes being a bitter, condescending jerk. If you have ideas on how I can improve, float me those ideas without degrading me. The degradation lowers the chances of those ideas being considered and potentially accepted.

As for egos, I don't have a big ego. I make my livelihood doing one of the humblest professions out there: caring for people in their homes. You speak of large egos, yet I see you not taking any issue with those players who do have huge egos and very large heads. Is this not true? As for responsibility, I accept the fact that I'm going to be wrong more often than I am right when it comes to navigating all the hazards and lies within the game. I do get bamboozled by very good liars. If I were you I would be careful accepting as true the things you hear from others. Gossip and rumors are inherently not credible, so I'd be careful using that in forming an opinion about another human being. Your direct experiences are far more credible. I've done good things and bad things, including being deceived and making mistakes. Other thing I did are distorted, whether intentionally or not. That is the nature of it.

I do appreciate your candor. I'm not too good to hear criticism, and, if it's given with a modicum of respect and/or mildness, I'm far more willing to take it to heart.

[reinoe]

I can think of three reasons for why town would hold things back and two reasons for why town would flat out lie. Really you need to be more adaptable.

You yourself lied as town about your role in mini-1609. I think you should give others the same leeway you provide yourself. Lying as town requires a delicate balance of timing and circumstance. Even fake-claiming at L-1 means you have to calculate when and what role you claim.

[Wake1]

I can think of three reasons for why town would hold things back and two reasons for why town would flat out lie. Really you need to be more adaptable.

You yourself lied as town about your role in mini-1609. I think you should give others the same leeway you provide yourself.

I did experiment, crumbing being a Bomb. Lying as Town really doesn't feel like a good idea, unless you have very good reason. For example, we only realized post-game that my crumbing Bomb could have been outed as false because there was already a unique role, Vengeful Neighbor, present. In short, if given the chance to do that again, I don't think I would. Based on that latest experience, I feel Townies shouldn't lie unless they need to. If you've already outed yourself as Mason/Neighbor/VT, I don't understand why you should hold back your thoughts.

[Konowa]

Adhering yourself to a strict set of guidelines becomes very boring, and ultimately makes you very easy to read. Obviously this is good as Town, but sucks when you draw Scum. You should always be Town

You have to be malleable to whatever game you are in. This goes without saying, but no two games you play in will be alike. To be frank, from you OP it just sounds like you are overthinking the entire process. Play the damn game and have fun. I guarantee you will find yourself "improving" the less you actually think about how you are actually playing.

[BBmolla]

All this does is perpetuate the notion that mafiascum.net harbors a lot of mean, elitist, and bitter players who hold grudges

I think this holds true for quite a bit of mafiascum tbh

Although it's gotten better over the years I think

[SleepyKrew]

SleepyKrew dropping in to once again remind everyone that they should learn to disassociate tone from message.

[Bulbazak]

I remember Mastin once telling me that I was arrogant when I played, and that a little bit of humbleness would go a long way towards improving my game. I didn't think of myself as arrogant, mind you. I just thought I had an aggressive play style. However, I took that advice to heart and worked on softening my approach to playing the game, which I think made a difference. Sometimes you can't see your own flaws due to your own bias, and it takes someone else to point them out. Whether you agree with them or not, it never hurts to accept their criticism and adjust your game accordingly.

I now offer the same advice to you: add a bit of humility to your play. You may say that you work in the humblest of professions, but that does not come across when you play a game or post in one of the discussion threads. You come across as an elitist who wants his own voice and opinions to be heard, but can't take the opinions and criticism of others. Already you have started to make excuses for your behavior about why the criticism given to you doesn't apply. You don't know everything. You likely never will. Don't act like you do, and accept that others just may have a point now and then. It will improve your relationships inside the game and out.

Also, you need to develop a thicker skin. Mafia games tend to create a very caustic environment, and there are some players who have developed a very aggressive playstyle to compensate. You will be insulted and degraded. There's no way to avoid that. However, most of the time it's not personal. Other players may be trying to see how you react, or, in the case that they're scum, they may be trying to throw you off your game entirely. The simple fact of the matter is that what is said inside the game may not be personal, and you shouldn't treat it as such. If it really becomes too much for you, then learn who the biggest offenders are and avoid playing with them. You're not going to avoid such environments 100% of the time, but it will at least cut down on your stress level.

Finally, it seems one of your biggest complaints revolves around meta. On that, I don't know what to say other than to play more games and show others that you've changed. Unfortunately, it takes 1 game to create a bad reputation and many more to fix it. Simply shouting for others to ignore your past mistakes is not going to do the trick. Again, be humble, suck it up, and work towards rebuilding your reputation in game. If you show that you are willing to learn from past mistakes, improve, and be a more enjoyable player overall, word will spread and people will want to play with you more. And before you know it, that meta will be a thing of the past. Never forget where you came from, though, lest you should happen to slip back into the same patterns.

[Guyett]

How many times do you post these threads promising improvement before screwing that up so much that you feel the need to write another excuse laden thread?

[Titus]

Wake, while it's common to many players, you do suffer from confbias. You ignored logic in our last game because you were convinced somehow I was scum. We could have forced Boon to clear one of us or play for the draw.

You also cannot correct your meta without getting into people's heads. If you were as familiar with my scumgame as you thought, you would have pushed Boon.

[Klingoncelt]

Wake, try putting the cork in the bottle

before

the game starts.

And don't be surprised if that doesn't work.

I'm a Mean Girl, rude & crude, my patience is very limited, and I get real tired of some people's antics. So then I blow up on them.

It's what I do. I've learned to embrace it.

Be yourself. Don't try to change what can't be changed, you'll just give yourself a headache and that'll make you cranky.

[Wake1]

Adhering yourself to a strict set of guidelines becomes very boring, and ultimately makes you very easy to read. Obviously this is good as Town, but sucks when you draw Scum. You should always be Town

You have to be malleable to whatever game you are in. This goes without saying, but no two games you play in will be alike. To be frank, from you OP it just sounds like you are overthinking the entire process. Play the damn game and have fun. I guarantee you will find yourself "improving" the less you actually think about how you are actually playing.

Personally, for me, I feel like I need to adhere to strict guidelines, because of my ADD. Otherwise, I'm all over the place. There are measures being put in place that would make it inherently difficult to read my gameplay. I suppose this may also prompt fellow players to send more questions my way (one aim). By being incredibly succinct and timely, it would free up my time, and allow me greater flexibility. I overthink a lot, Konowa. It's been like a curse for me ever since I was born with ADD/ADHD. My mind is a beautiful mess: always thinking but highly disorganized. Chaotic at times. It's not something to be proud about, but it isn't all bad, either. I think players trying to sort out my very succinct posts and trying to actually engage me would be more enjoyable. I don't like expending lots of energy thoroughly posting all my thoughts only to be ignored and/or dismissed. Then I just feel unappreciated, which is no fun. When I take Adderal much of the overthinking fades away, allowing me to orchestrate very focused and organized posts, but the medication, without insurance, is expensive.

I'm grateful for your presence here, Konowa.

All this does is perpetuate the notion that mafiascum.net harbors a lot of mean, elitist, and bitter players who hold grudges

I think this holds true for quite a bit of mafiascum tbh

Although it's gotten better over the years I think

It's incredibly difficult to not feel bitter about those things, too.

People are going to make mistakes in Mafia. Hating and ridiculing them for it is flat-out wrong.

SleepyKrew dropping in to once again remind everyone that they should learn to disassociate tone from message.

Not so, Sir. When you are speaking to someone, in order to convey a message, your tone does matter. Imagine if your professor's tone changed to one of contempt and condescension. How might that affect your receptiveness to the knowledge you're being taught? Tone, I think, matters greatly.

I remember Mastin once telling me that I was arrogant when I played, and that a little bit of humbleness would go a long way towards improving my game. I didn't think of myself as arrogant, mind you. I just thought I had an aggressive play style. However, I took that advice to heart and worked on softening my approach to playing the game, which I think made a difference. Sometimes you can't see your own flaws due to your own bias, and it takes someone else to point them out. Whether you agree with them or not, it never hurts to accept their criticism and adjust your game accordingly.

I now offer the same advice to you: add a bit of humility to your play. You may say that you work in the humblest of professions, but that does not come across when you play a game or post in one of the discussion threads. You come across as an elitist who wants his own voice and opinions to be heard, but can't take the opinions and criticism of others. Already you have started to make excuses for your behavior about why the criticism given to you doesn't apply. You don't know everything. You likely never will. Don't act like you do, and accept that others just may have a point now and then. It will improve your relationships inside the game and out.

Also, you need to develop a thicker skin. Mafia games tend to create a very caustic environment, and there are some players who have developed a very aggressive playstyle to compensate. You will be insulted and degraded. There's no way to avoid that. However, most of the time it's not personal. Other players may be trying to see how you react, or, in the case that they're scum, they may be trying to throw you off your game entirely. The simple fact of the matter is that what is said inside the game may not be personal, and you shouldn't treat it as such. If it really becomes too much for you, then learn who the biggest offenders are and avoid playing with them. You're not going to avoid such environments 100% of the time, but it will at least cut down on your stress level.

Finally, it seems one of your biggest complaints revolves around meta. On that, I don't know what to say other than to play more games and show others that you've changed. Unfortunately, it takes 1 game to create a bad reputation and many more to fix it. Simply shouting for others to ignore your past mistakes is not going to do the trick. Again, be humble, suck it up, and work towards rebuilding your reputation in game. If you show that you are willing to learn from past mistakes, improve, and be a more enjoyable player overall, word will spread and people will want to play with you more. And before you know it, that meta will be a thing of the past. Never forget where you came from, though, lest you should happen to slip back into the same patterns.

I don't feel arrogant when I play. I can be abrasive, impatient, and prone to behaving badly when vexed. It's very easy to get frustrated in Mafia. I wouldn't say I'm arrogant. I will say that I don't like being ignored, and I want to feel as if my views are going to be considered just like everyone else's. I'm absolutely not an elitist, and freely admit that much of my ideas go against the grain of what the "masters" of Mafia dictate. Never have I said or acted as if I know everything either, Bulba. I lost the last 2/3 of my games due to my own mistakes which cost the Town, because I was deceived. I know darn well I'm fallible, and that everyone is equally so, too.

As for the criticism, I can accept it if it's truly fair. This doesn't mean I must be a limp-wristed weakling and accept 100% all the criticisms dished my way. No. Absolutely not. There are plenty of criticisms I've taken to heart, which have helped change my playstyle. I don't want to accept the challenge of hunting down and listing every single criticism I've accepted and used to become stronger in the game. I will say that number isn't below 8, though. I know darn well what my weaknesses are and that my own strong spirit has left me blindsided, causing more than one loss for Town, as Town. What am I supposed to do? How do I not get deceived so much? It's not easy.

How exactly do I infused humility into my gameplay? I see many players, like FakeGod, that aren't humble or operating under humility, either. Yet not one word or criticism goes towards them. Imagine if I were, like those who criticize me, point out the flaws of others, from the biggest to the smallest? I have my mistakes, but I daresay everyone here has a good handfull of weaknesses and mistakes that could be improved on. Is that not true? I'm not infallible, I do accept some criticism, and I won't be a rug to wipe the s*** from your shoes on. Not in my nature. I know full-well the mistakes I've made in past games which cost us the win. I'm not going to scream and gnash my teeth and rent my clothes in those threads post-game because of it. Though you may not see it, that's on my mind.

I would say I do have incredibly thick skin. It's gotten much thicker than when I started playing here. Still, in spite of that there are those who can succeed in getting my pissed off. I know very well the atmosphere that permeates this forum. Frankly it's made me a much more tempered and extremely patient health care provider, oddly enough. The insults I've received have been primarily personal, and I don't like it. We're talking about insults that aren't even in the games I'm playing. They're indirect, back-handed comments that happen in MD, other games, chatbox, etc. The gossip is pretty crappy, especially when it's exaggerated as it spreads. In-game I can easily ignore that player and, if Scum, use it to my advantage. That doesn't get to me when it's in the game I'm in, because I'm conscious of the fact that Scum can (and often will) do anything they can to PO and divide the Townies. It's when I get maliciously slandered in an ongoing game, and I can't respond or do anything for the next two months. That's what's low and cowardly. Same with dribbling, noxious comments posted in the Dead QT by bitter players who have recently died. Would you like to see some examples? I should strive to avoid them. It's tough to gather up players like you and Konowa who I think who be nicer to play with. I don't get much if any choice on who I can play with.

You're right on meta. It will take a while. Some players simply aren't forgiving. I've been screwed in past games, but I simply haven't had the time to hold grudges over it.

Wake, while it's common to many players, you do suffer from confbias. You ignored logic in our last game because you were convinced somehow I was scum. We could have forced Boon to clear one of us or play for the draw.

You also cannot correct your meta without getting into people's heads. If you were as familiar with my scumgame as you thought, you would have pushed Boon.

I don't know what to do to avoid the trap of confirmation bias.

In the last game I ignored your logic because I was extremely paranoid about you being Scum.

BBT wasn't Scum, and Boonskiie's never had a serious Scum game here (no data on his Scum-game), and then there was you. You are far more wily and clever than they, and that's my honest feelings on the matter. I felt you were more capable than Boonskiie's of spinning very convincing deceit/manipulation.

What if... what would happen if you were indeed Scum, and I fell for your lies? Then what? I'd still be spat on and cursed, because then I'd be deceived there, too. It creates the feeling where I can't win as Town regardless. Players would still gnash their teeth if you were Scum and succeeded in deceiving me. You did it to me before, and that doesn't include how, as Scum, you got me lynched in Gundam SEED when I was Town and you were Scum. That I haven't forgotten. Your proficiency and doggedness. I was also told by, I think Mastin, that Scum absolutely love logic. That was another factor that had me turning in the crosswinds.

Wake, try putting the cork in the bottle

before

the game starts.

And don't be surprised if that doesn't work.

I'm a Mean Girl, rude & crude, my patience is very limited, and I get real tired of some people's antics. So then I blow up on them.

It's what I do. I've learned to embrace it.

Be yourself. Don't try to change what can't be changed, you'll just give yourself a headache and that'll make you cranky.

On mafiascum.net you can be WotC'd for anything. Whether you like a certain color or there's something (anything0 someone doesn't like about you or your play. If I were myself, which likes intensity and hyper-focused play, I'd probably get WotC'd even if I were respectful and kind. Some players are simply fickle. My true nature, sans conditioning and practice, has very little tolerance for certain behaviors. That wouldn't work to my advantage. I know you and Titus mean well. It's just complicated. If I could just find better means to channel my energy and strategy...

[N]

Have you eaten mastin?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Every single thing you've said in response has been a reason why they are wrong in their criticism and how that's not the way it is or how you aren't this way or that way.

Why do you bother asking at all?

[Wake1]

Every single thing you've said in response has been a reason why they are wrong in their criticism and how that's not the way it is or how you aren't this way or that way.

Why do you bother asking at all?

I ask because there are weaknesses in my personality and gameplay.

This does not mean every single criticism and insult pointed my way is valid.

Even in this thread there are criticisms (fair ones) that are actively being added for the future.

[reinoe]

Every single thing you've said in response has been a reason why they are wrong in their criticism and how that's not the way it is or how you aren't this way or that way.

Why do you bother asking at all?

I ask because there are weaknesses in my personality and gameplay.

This does not mean every single criticism and insult pointed my way is valid.

Even in this thread there are criticisms (fair ones) that are actively being added for the future.

I think if that's the case you should publicly acknowledge the stuff you're accepting while not mentioning the stuff you're discarding. Right now you're doing the opposite and it does make it seem like you're defiant.

[Wake1]

I think if that's the case you should publicly acknowledge the stuff you're accepting while not mentioning the stuff you're discarding. Right now you're doing the opposite and it does make it seem like you're defiant.

That's a different way to go about it. Working through the discussion publicly helps, because I do reread it over time, and can attempt to improve aspects of my character through review. As of yet I don't I've directly said I dismiss/discard select criticisms in this thread. If that's true then I'll say I don't have that big of any ego, compared to some of the massive ones I've encountered here. There's simply no time. I can be defiant at times, but that in itself isn't always a bad thing. Accepting criticism doesn't mean you must accept every single one. If you reinoe were criticized for quibbling over small detail or for being annoying, how would you respond? Would you dismiss it, and then receive the same token in response?

[Wake1]

I'm thinking a list of improvements and accepted criticisms is in order.

[Flubbernugget]

Why did you stop making the analysis posts you made in the beginning?

[Wake1]

Why did you stop making the analysis posts you made in the beginning?

Not enough time. Drained of energy from work and life.

Those thorough posts require much time and energy on my end. Lately I've been run ragged.

Hell, I've had to start taking naps during the day just to recoup function. You work a 16-hr shift caring for a client with a severe affliction, you rest for 2.5 hours, then you're up for 12 hours caring for someone else, then you drive home almost die from a near car crash, sleep for 3 hours, then get up and work 13 hrs 35 minutes away.

[The Rufflig]

There are only a couple bits of advice that I'd like to give you, Wake88.

The first is teamwork. Work with your town reads. It doesn't matter how these players became your town reads, but these players are your allies. Treat your allies well. Bounce ideas off them, listen to what they have to say, disagree with their ideas (say why) and point out things to them that you think they are missing. Do not get into heated arguments with your allies. It's ok to disagree with them, but it shouldn't get heated. Your allies will not perform how you would like them to; you'll have to live with that and work with them the best you can.

The second is leverage. Your allies give you leverage. Call upon them to try and force another player to answer a question. Also call upon your allies to try and push through lynches. If you can't get your allies to help you, then you need to consider why they are opposed to what you are trying to do. You may have to back off for a little bit and try again during a lull or after you have gathered additional reasoning to support your push.

Do not abuse your allies trust and support as this will backfire.

[Shadoweh]

On mafiascum.net you can be WotC'd for anything. Whether you like a certain color or there's something (anything0 someone doesn't like about you or your play. If I were myself, which likes intensity and hyper-focused play,

I'd probably get WotC'd even if I were respectful and kind.

Some players are simply fickle. My true nature, sans conditioning and practice, has very little tolerance for certain behaviors. That wouldn't work to my advantage. I know you and Titus mean well. It's just complicated. If I could just find better means to channel my energy and strategy...

Do you honestly believe the bolded section? If so you are incorrect and this is just a justification to never change because it 'wouldn't matter'. It does. Annoying but nice people don't get WotC'd out of games because people would feel too guilty to be that mean to a nice person :p

[Doogal121]

@Wake. A couple of things I noticed, take it or leave it.

1. The ADD/ADHD busy work excuses have to stop. I'm going to go on a limb here and say this extends to your life off site. As a fellow sufferer, the key is to change your view on it. Some people are good at math, some people are bad. Some people are good at reading, some aren't. You just happen to be poor at focusing. The advantage to that is you get to see a much bigger picture and think outside the box. It's not an excuse, it's just a difference, the same differences that every human being has from one and other..

2. You might want to take a communications class. Learn the basics of writing to influence. For example, have you ever done the following? Thought about what specific action you want to accomplish and what is the best way to make that happen. Written in a way that generates respect from that person. Cutting down all the chatter to the minimum needed to get your point across. Found a common ground to build a bridge from.
2a. A simple course on writing to influence others will go a LONG way for your game.

3. There is only one valid response to criticisms you don't believe are true in this thread. (we are going to assume that the people in here are actually trying to help and not jerks or liars). That response is: Hmm, I never thought of myself that way, can you explain to me more about why you do? Can you give me an example?

[FakeGod]

Hell, I've had to start taking naps during the day just to recoup function. You work a 16-hr shift caring for a client with a severe affliction, you rest for 2.5 hours, then you're up for 12 hours caring for someone else, then you drive home almost die from a near car crash, sleep for 3 hours, then get up and work 13 hrs 35 minutes away.

You are too busy to play mafia.

Do you disagree?