Normalcy Discussion:Encryptor/Strongman also voyeur/follower

[reinoe]

It recently came to my realization that a TOWN ENCRYPTOR is considered not-normal. I'm of the belief that any role that scum can have, a townie should be able to have as well. However TOWN ENCRYPTOR or TOWN STRONGMAN is specifically not normal. Also Voyeur and Follower are not normal but there's no explanation for why that is the case(

mutiny

).

I realize that every once in a while roles get reviewed for normalcy et al, but what progress is taking place on that?

[Aronis]

A Town Strongman. Man that would be so cool. I could just sit around and do nothing all day.

[GuyInFreezer]

The only use of Town Strongman is when there is a mafia universal backup.

[BROseidon]

Normalcy of things is based on popularity on not actual mechanics.

[BROseidon]

The only use of Town Strongman is when there is a mafia universal backup.

Town strongman vig in response to scum having a doctor.

[BROseidon]

Stick it on a JOAT with investigative powers for double the fun.

[GuyInFreezer]

The only use of Town Strongman is when there is a mafia universal backup.

Town strongman vig in response to scum having a doctor.

That would be "strongman" as a modifier though.
I'm talking about the strongman as a role.

[reinoe]

The last two Large Normal games I've been in have had situations where a Town Strongman Vig could have been beneficial.

1. A vig tried to shoot scum but another scum doctor protected them.
2. Investigation Immune BP SK.

Also Strongman gets around Roleblockers.

Anyway I'm also not sure why "Encryptor" isn't a role available to townies.

[BROseidon]

The only use of Town Strongman is when there is a mafia universal backup.

Town strongman vig in response to scum having a doctor.

That would be "strongman" as a modifier though.
I'm talking about the strongman as a role.

All roles are modifiers on vanilla.

Mind=blown.

[GuyInFreezer]

For mafia, daytalk is a privilege. If mafia screws up and get encryptor lynched, losing that daytalk privilege falls on them.
But if town has encryptor (which means scum won't), scum would be losing their privilege for successfully mislynching town, thus punishing scum for doing their job.

P-Edit: point taken

[GuyInFreezer]

(And yes, I like encryptor staying as scum-only role in normal)

[reinoe]

For mafia, daytalk is a privilege. If mafia screws up and get encryptor lynched, losing that daytalk privilege falls on them.
But if town has encryptor (

which means scum won't

), scum would be losing their privilege for successfully mislynching town, thus punishing scum for doing their job.

P-Edit: point taken

What the hell does that even mean. Why can't there be a Town Encryptor in a a four person neighborhood and also a scum encryptor for the scum team being in the same game?

[Shadoweh]

Don't you already have this thread? <.<
A vig being a strongman is definitely unusual. So is a neighbourhood dependant on one player to exist. Why are you arguing these should be part of the standardized, plain definition of Mafia when plain mafia doesn't have that many modifiers on a role?

[GuyInFreezer]

For mafia, daytalk is a privilege. If mafia screws up and get encryptor lynched, losing that daytalk privilege falls on them.
But if town has encryptor (

which means scum won't

), scum would be losing their privilege for successfully mislynching town, thus punishing scum for doing their job.

P-Edit: point taken

What the hell does that even mean. Why can't there be a Town Encryptor in a a four person neighborhood and also a scum encryptor for the scum team being in the same game?

It can but it's pointless.
Iirc encryptor gives all PTs (scum, neighbor, mason, etc) daytalk until it dies.

[GuyInFreezer]

Furthermore, neighbors and masons don't really benefit a lot from a daytalk anyway because they can already talk about what they want to talk about freely in the game thread. (Even the scum neighbor don't really need daytalk in their neighbor thread.) So killing a town encryptor doesn't affect town at all while it negatively affects scum.

[reinoe]

Don't you already have this thread? <.<
A vig being a strongman is definitely unusual. So is a neighbourhood dependant on one player to exist. Why are you arguing these should be part of the standardized, plain definition of Mafia when plain mafia doesn't have that many modifiers on a role?

Because someone being rolecopped shouldn't immediately out them as scum. If a town Encryptor gets killed then the neighborhood loses daytalk, it doesn't destroy the neighborhood.

For mafia, daytalk is a privilege. If mafia screws up and get encryptor lynched, losing that daytalk privilege falls on them.
But if town has encryptor (

which means scum won't

), scum would be losing their privilege for successfully mislynching town, thus punishing scum for doing their job.

P-Edit: point taken

What the hell does that even mean. Why can't there be a Town Encryptor in a a four person neighborhood and also a scum encryptor for the scum team being in the same game?

It can but it's pointless.
Iirc encryptor gives all PTs (scum, neighbor, mason, etc) daytalk until it dies.

You're talking about an Enabler, which is not an encryptor.

[chamber]

Don't you already have this thread? <.<
A vig being a strongman is definitely unusual. So is a neighbourhood dependant on one player to exist. Why are you arguing these should be part of the standardized, plain definition of Mafia when plain mafia doesn't have that many modifiers on a role?

Because someone being rolecopped shouldn't immediately out them as scum. If a town Encryptor gets killed then the neighborhood loses daytalk, it doesn't destroy the neighborhood.

For mafia, daytalk is a privilege. If mafia screws up and get encryptor lynched, losing that daytalk privilege falls on them.
But if town has encryptor (

which means scum won't

), scum would be losing their privilege for successfully mislynching town, thus punishing scum for doing their job.

P-Edit: point taken

What the hell does that even mean. Why can't there be a Town Encryptor in a a four person neighborhood and also a scum encryptor for the scum team being in the same game?

It can but it's pointless.
Iirc encryptor gives all PTs (scum, neighbor, mason, etc) daytalk until it dies.

You're talking about an Enabler, which is not an encryptor.

No, he's talking about an encryptor.

An enabler as used on MS enables a type of role (say doctor), and when it dies all doctors stop functioning. Variants may instead specify a player or specific character.

[reinoe]

No, he's talking about an encryptor.

An enabler as used on MS enables a type of role (say doctor), and when it dies all doctors stop functioning. Variants may instead a specific player or specific character.

So you have three neighborhoods, a masonry and a Mafia Encryptor. Even though the encryptor is in none of the neighborhoods: all members of the neighborhoods have daychat in addition to the masonry?

[chamber]

I'm not an authority on the matter, but that's how I understand things to work, yes.

You were absolutely wrong about your use of the term enabler though.

[reinoe]

I'm not an authority on the matter, but that's how I understand things to work, yes.

You were absolutely wrong about your use of the term enabler though.

Possibly...how it's being talk about it sounds like Encryptor is a daytalk Enabler.

[Shadoweh]

Don't you already have this thread? <.<
A vig being a strongman is definitely unusual. So is a neighbourhood dependant on one player to exist. Why are you arguing these should be part of the standardized, plain definition of Mafia when plain mafia doesn't have that many modifiers on a role?

Because someone being rolecopped shouldn't immediately out them as scum. If a town Encryptor gets killed then the neighborhood loses daytalk, it doesn't destroy the neighborhood.

I didn't ask what you thought the mechanical benefit would be. A Town Encryptor is not normal, or standard, in any way. In fact the Normal definition of Masons and Neighbours includes the versions that have daytalk automagically without one. A Rolecop finding an Encryptor and declaring them mafia is how a standard game of Mafia should work. (The better way to avoid this would be not to put the two roles together.)

All the confusion about how a Town Encryptor would actually work in practice kind of proves the point that they aren't standard mafia.

Another point against Town Strongman Vig:

1. A vig tried to shoot scum but another scum doctor protected them.

This is intended behavior. If you were to give Scum a Doctor, to protect from kills, and then make the Vigilante a Strongman, making the scum's role useless, I would call you a Bastard Mod. Those kinds of interactions don't belong in a Normal game, don't you think?

[Cheery Dog]

So you have three neighborhoods, a masonry and a Mafia Encryptor. Even though the encryptor is in none of the neighborhoods: all members of the neighborhoods have daychat in addition to the masonry?

I like this way better, as used it in the game I gave an encryptor.
But then if you're trying to make sense of how it worlds out in a real world, the encryptor would only encrypt talks between places they're in, what good is encrypting something if you're giving out the encrypting code to everyone? I guess he has a machine that does it and these other people being neighbours have worked out how to use it.

I think both ways are acceptable.

[quadz08]

Encryptor can be used in a couple of different ways, depending on how the role PM is worded:

Mafia encryptors typically enable daytalk for their faction.
Town encryptors who are also part of a neighborhood or masonry will typically only enable daytalk for their group.
Any encryptor

can

be written to give daytalk to an entire faction (i.e., Town Encryptor could give daytalk to the town masons and the neighbor group in the game), or to every private talk group in the game (masons, neighbors, all scum factions).

The normal version of the encryptor is a Mafia Encryptor who gives daytalk to his/her faction only. The other types of encryptors are not particularly common, and thus not a viable addition to the list of Normal roles.

That said, other versions of the encryptor aren't blacklisted, so they could conceivably be used as one of your variant roles, depending on the rest of your setup.

[GuyInFreezer]

I'm not an authority on the matter, but that's how I understand things to work, yes.

You were absolutely wrong about your use of the term enabler though.

Possibly...how it's being talk about it sounds like Encryptor is a daytalk Enabler.

That's how I've seen encryptor works in this site.
I've seen encryptor in normal games too but every time I've seen it mafia was the only one with private threads.

[Faraday]

Those kinds of interactions don't belong in a Normal game, don't you think?

Mafia strongman + town doc already has that type of interaction. So!