Smalltown: role selection before or after alignments?

[Quilford]

I'm running a Smalltown game in which roles are chosen by players in draft order... I'm just wondering, should the draft and role selection occur before or after alignments are assigned? I can see arguments for and against doing it either way, but I could be missing something big which makes it a particularly good or bad idea to do it a certain way. Thoughts? What would be preferable for you, as a player?

[Majiffy]

If you're drafting, it should be pre-alignment. Otherwise the setup and player choices can become very predictable and breakable IMO.

[N]

When I ran a smalltown, I randomised the alignments before the draft, but didn't actually give them out until after, which is pretty much what Majiffy is suggesting except with extra proof of randomness.

[Empking]

If you're drafting, it should be pre-alignment. Otherwise the setup and player choices can become very predictable and breakable IMO.

How so?
To my mind, the picking of roles should obviously be after alignment. It allows, that way, for the skipping of generic RVS.
Although, obviously, scum shouldn't be able to coordinate their draft picks.

[Majiffy]

Because roles that have no scum utility such as an alignment cop or a doctor without a vig role would be obvious town. And if they aren't dead by LYLO, obvious scum WIFOM.

Best to draft roles before alignment is known by the players to ensure that the game isn't broken by poor setup mechanics.

[Empking]

Because roles that have no scum utility such as an alignment cop or a doctor without a vig role would be obvious town. And if they aren't dead by LYLO, obvious scum WIFOM.

Mafia is a zero- sum game; without a Serial Killer what the town gains from picking that Doctor (rather than a different role) is exactly the same as Mafia get by denying the town that Doctor.

[LlamaFluff]

Because roles that have no scum utility such as an alignment cop or a doctor without a vig role would be obvious town. And if they aren't dead by LYLO, obvious scum WIFOM.

How... scum takes those and they are out of town hands. How many roles would you want to take as scum before essentially "cop/doctor is guaranteed not to exist" as your role

I would say make it like all of the open games that have drafts. Alignment first, because at that point it massively changes what optimal play is. Either way you need to balance it for drafting before or after, as it should be somewhat different.

[BBmolla]

Alignments then draft

Cause yknow it actually means something for the draft instead of just picking a role you like

[PokerFace]

before everything, ask the players to vote on 'alignment then role' or 'role then alignment' then give out what got more votes

This way if majority of players want to know what they are before they draft then cool and if majority want role and then alignment, also cool

I personally want role than alignment. As I don't think the drafting and picking is fair way to give roles or fair way to avoid RVS given both sides can really want anything

I'll always try to grab vig and then I get 2 kills as scum or 1 kill as town. Scum with 2 kills can get rid of 2 town power roles all on night 1. Town with vig skill means I can kill scum and I don't have to rely on the lynch or worry about the vig being scum since I will already know if they are scum since i am them

[quadz08]

before everything, ask the players to vote on 'alignment then role' or 'role then alignment' then give out what got more votes

This way if majority of players want to know what they are before they draft then cool and if majority want role and then alignment, also cool

don't do this - you need to decide beforehand, because when the roles are given out affects how you want to balance your game

[Quilford]

I definitely designed with alignment then role in mind, it was only when I looked at The Fonz's Smalltown game I was in a while back that I saw that it had been done the other way, so I was unsure if I was missing some persuasive argument for doing it one way or the other.