Indicative of Alignment?

[Wake1]

We hear this frequently, and few if any people have it pinned down. By this I mean what exactly is alignment-indicative.

Maybe we can start—together—trying to do just that?

1)

Effort is not indicative of alignment (True, yet it feels—at least on a subconscious level—that you gut Townread for putting in a lot of effort).

2)

Truth-telling? Personally as Scum I try to be honest on everything, besides the bit about being Scum.

That's a couple things. What else can we list? What exactly should we be focusing on when it comes to alignment? It just feels like no one really has a collective opinion on this, so we end up seeing tons of different players having different ideas and opinions on it.

[Quilford]

Something is alignment-indicative if it plausibly relates to how much a player knows or doesn't know about the alignments of others.

[Titus]

Wake, noble ideal, impossible in reality. It's all player specific.

For instance some put in more effort as one alignment or the other. Others don't.

[SilverWolf]

It's game dependent, role dependent, player dependent. I used to think town never lies. I have been proven wrong on that a few times now. The problem is, boxing yourself into any set rule of how scum or town will behave is doomed to failure.

Maybe my best way of looking at it, is to try to see if someone is being genuine or not which is hard to fake for the whole game and is easy to do if you are town.

[Otolia]

It's game dependent, role dependent, player dependent. I used to think town never lies. I have been proven wrong on that a few times now. The problem is, boxing yourself into any set rule of how scum or town will behave is doomed to failure.

People who lie as town as generally terrible players, especially during a normal game where a PR can die without impairing the survival of town too much.

[SilverWolf]

It's game dependent, role dependent, player dependent. I used to think town never lies. I have been proven wrong on that a few times now. The problem is, boxing yourself into any set rule of how scum or town will behave is doomed to failure.

People who lie as town as generally terrible players, especially during a normal game where a PR can die without impairing the survival of town too much.

I never lie as town but I don't gambit either. I've seen town gambit and fakeclaim as a BP for example to draw the NK. It's super risky if there is an actually role in the game they are claiming which is why I don't like it if town lies.

[Majiffy]

Wake, noble ideal, impossible in reality. It's all player specific.

[Tere]

Wake, noble ideal, impossible in reality. It's all player specific.

[GuyInFreezer]

try to see if someone is being genuine or not

Scum can be genuine too, especially when you catch them with wrong reason.

[Titus]

It's game dependent, role dependent, player dependent. I used to think town never lies. I have been proven wrong on that a few times now. The problem is, boxing yourself into any set rule of how scum or town will behave is doomed to failure.

People who lie as town as generally terrible players, especially during a normal game where a PR can die without impairing the survival of town too much.

I never lie as town but I don't gambit either. I've seen town gambit and fakeclaim as a BP for example to draw the NK. It's super risky if there is an actually role in the game they are claiming which is why I don't like it if town lies.

Each player judges it for themselves. I showed you an ideal BP gambit a few months ago off-site. I've also added a BP to a cop claim. BP is a favorite gambit of mine because it has low risk to town and high risk to scum. Certain conditions must be met, but the idea behind gambiting is to have it be a low risk gambit. How bad will town be hurt by said gambit?

[MattP]

Yeah, I was a hider once and claimed cop because it allowed me to claim my targets beforehand and attract the NK from scum. I'm sure that could have ended poorly, but it didn't.

[SilverWolf]

try to see if someone is being genuine or not

Scum can be genuine too, especially when you catch them with wrong reason.

Good point!! It's happened to me before.

[SilverWolf]

It's game dependent, role dependent, player dependent. I used to think town never lies. I have been proven wrong on that a few times now. The problem is, boxing yourself into any set rule of how scum or town will behave is doomed to failure.

People who lie as town as generally terrible players, especially during a normal game where a PR can die without impairing the survival of town too much.

I never lie as town but I don't gambit either. I've seen town gambit and fakeclaim as a BP for example to draw the NK. It's super risky if there is an actually role in the game they are claiming which is why I don't like it if town lies.

Each player judges it for themselves. I showed you an ideal BP gambit a few months ago off-site. I've also added a BP to a cop claim. BP is a favorite gambit of mine because it has low risk to town and high risk to scum. Certain conditions must be met, but the idea behind gambiting is to have it be a low risk gambit. How bad will town be hurt by said gambit?

Yeah, I remember that one. I just finished a game where House gambited as 1-shot BP by ccing a cop claim from ika who was fakeclaiming like he does as town. He was trying to draw the NK but what if ika would of been the real cop?

That's why I don't like gambits as town. As scum, who cares? Gambit, lie, have fun. As town, I just don't like it. An exception might be if I was doc in certain newbie set-ups and I had to claim. Then I could say doc OR BP and it would work for some of those set-ups without outing the other PR and would WIFOM scum into not knowing if they should shoot you or not.

[callforjudgement]

Yeah, I remember that one. I just finished a game where House gambited as 1-shot BP by ccing a cop claim from ika who was fakeclaiming like he does as town. He was trying to draw the NK but what if ika would of been the real cop?

Based on experience, I have a suggested maxim: "if two people claim the same powerful pro-town role, it's more likely that neither of them has it than both of them have it". (I've seen this both with both players as town, and with both players as scum.)

EDIT: Err, in one case one of them was actually a Mafia Cop, but that role is sufficiently close to Mafia Goon that it doesn't really count.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah, I was a hider once and claimed cop because it allowed me to claim my targets beforehand and attract the NK from scum. I'm sure that could have ended poorly, but it didn't.

I was a hider once and lied about who I was going to target and mafia NKd that person. Could have ended poorly but it didn't :S

You were in that game actually.

[fdas]

Something is indicative of alignment iff someone is more likely to preform the action when playing as one alignment when compared to playing as another alignment. A scumtell is something that someone is more likely to do if they were scum than if they were town.

[sthar8]

Something is alignment-indicative if it plausibly relates to how much a player knows or doesn't know about the alignments of others.

/thread

I've seen town gambit and fakeclaim as a BP for example to draw the NK.

Does not work.

BP is a favorite gambit of mine because it has low risk to town and high risk to scum.

If only BP weren't a scumclaim 70% of the time and a useless claim 25% of the time.

I just finished a game where House gambited as 1-shot BP by ccing a cop claim from ika who was fakeclaiming like he does as town

That would be two players playing atrociously.

[SilverWolf]

I just finished a game where House gambited as 1-shot BP by ccing a cop claim from ika who was fakeclaiming like he does as town

That would be two players playing atrociously.

Yeah, Luckily town still won that one despite that. But it was a huge distraction. I'm kind of getting sick of fakeclaiming and lying town. I've seen it a lot lately and it kind of sucks, IMO.