Players Requesting Removal Pre-Game

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's arrogant to think you are what the game needs. Unless you have a near perfect scumhunting record, you are not what the game needs. Just accept your role and play it as optimally as possible.

Lying as town is the most asshole thing you can do.

[Sajin]

That's not learning. "Don't lie as town" is something you learn in newbie games.

I have lied about a cop guilty before because town needed some leadership. It completely turned that game around in favor of the town and even got the daykilling mafia member to daykill the serialkiller. Its not always wrong...just usually.

"Well it worked this one time, so it's okay to do it."
^fallacy. Don't promote this behavior.

If you saw that game you would understand. I am not saying because it worked one time it is a good practice either.

[BROseidon]

That's not learning. "Don't lie as town" is something you learn in newbie games.

Sometimes lying as town is the right thing to do....5% of the time. Yeah it has to be under certain circumstances and the player better know what he/she is doing.

One of the funniest sequences ever:

1) Gif fake claims miller as IC
2) AA9 uses her 1-shot cop on Gif
3) AA9 claims the cop inno at the start of day 2.
4) Gif reveals IC status because everyone was going "wtf this makes no sense"

[kuribo]

I've lied about having a guilty on someone. At least twice. (Okay both slots were mastin hydras) They were town and scum won the game because of it.

Of course the difference here is that I was scum because THERE IS NO GOOD FUCKING REASON FOR TOWN TO FAKE GUILTIES

everyone who says that gambits sometimes work is right--- but that doesn't justify it. If you randomly shoot a stranger in the head, sure they MIGHT have been a child molester. But more likely, you just murdered an innocent person and now you're going to prison.

If you have to fake a guilty as town YOU ARE PLAYING BADLY. Find another way to push the lynch you want. Faking a guilty as town shows a lack of imagination as well as teamwork. DONT FUCKING DO IT. NOT TODAY NOT TOMORROW NOT NEVER. It is an OBJECTIVELY STUPID THING TO DO.

[kuribo]

That's not learning. "Don't lie as town" is something you learn in newbie games.

Sometimes lying as town is the right thing to do....5% of the time. Yeah it has to be under certain circumstances and the player better know what he/she is doing.

One of the funniest sequences ever:

1) Gif fake claims miller as IC
2) AA9 uses her 1-shot cop on Gif
3) AA9 claims the cop inno at the start of day 2.
4) Gif reveals IC status because everyone was going "wtf this makes no sense"

I love AA9 to death, but copping a claimed miller is incredibly pointless.

[BROseidon]

I've lied about having a guilty on someone. At least twice. (Okay both slots were mastin hydras) They were town and scum won the game because of it.

Of course the difference here is that I was scum because THERE IS NO GOOD FUCKING REASON FOR TOWN TO FAKE GUILTIES

everyone who says that gambits sometimes work is right--- but that doesn't justify it. If you randomly shoot a stranger in the head, sure they MIGHT have been a child molester. But more likely, you just murdered an innocent person and now you're going to prison.

If you have to fake a guilty as town YOU ARE PLAYING BADLY. Find another way to push the lynch you want. Faking a guilty as town shows a lack of imagination as well as teamwork. DONT FUCKING DO IT. NOT TODAY NOT TOMORROW NOT NEVER. It is an OBJECTIVELY STUPID THING TO DO.

But people want to be crazy and gambit-ey like you!

Except they don't understand that you are able to gambit and pull crazy shit as town because you know what the fuck you are doing and what the correct standard play is.

[BROseidon]

That's not learning. "Don't lie as town" is something you learn in newbie games.

Sometimes lying as town is the right thing to do....5% of the time. Yeah it has to be under certain circumstances and the player better know what he/she is doing.

One of the funniest sequences ever:

1) Gif fake claims miller as IC
2) AA9 uses her 1-shot cop on Gif
3) AA9 claims the cop inno at the start of day 2.
4) Gif reveals IC status because everyone was going "wtf this makes no sense"

I love AA9 to death, but copping a claimed miller is incredibly pointless.

No T no shade, but both times I've seen AA9 as cop she's picked very bad targets...

[MonkeyMan576]

I've lied about having a guilty on someone. At least twice. (Okay both slots were mastin hydras) They were town and scum won the game because of it.

Of course the difference here is that I was scum because THERE IS NO GOOD FUCKING REASON FOR TOWN TO FAKE GUILTIES

everyone who says that gambits sometimes work is right--- but that doesn't justify it. If you randomly shoot a stranger in the head, sure they MIGHT have been a child molester. But more likely, you just murdered an innocent person and now you're going to prison.

If you have to fake a guilty as town YOU ARE PLAYING BADLY. Find another way to push the lynch you want. Faking a guilty as town shows a lack of imagination as well as teamwork. DONT FUCKING DO IT. NOT TODAY NOT TOMORROW NOT NEVER. It is an OBJECTIVELY STUPID THING TO DO.

I admitted I played badly, I don't know why it needs to be analyzed to death.

[BROseidon]

Dude, you just made a thread asking about why people WOTC you.

Your gameplay is going to be analyzed as a result.

[fferyllt]

That's not learning. "Don't lie as town" is something you learn in newbie games.

Sometimes lying as town is the right thing to do....5% of the time. Yeah it has to be under certain circumstances and the player better know what he/she is doing.

One of the funniest sequences ever:

1) Gif fake claims miller as IC
2) AA9 uses her 1-shot cop on Gif
3) AA9 claims the cop inno at the start of day 2.
4) Gif reveals IC status because everyone was going "wtf this makes no sense"

oh god that game.

[borkjerfkin]

i was trying to get her to investigate me that game

[ika]

arguably you'll get more annoying after titus "teaches" you

^this so much

the player base is going down hill faster and faster with this

[GuyInFreezer]

Lying as town for hell of it is the most asshole thing you can do.

[kuribo]

I've lied about having a guilty on someone. At least twice. (Okay both slots were mastin hydras) They were town and scum won the game because of it.

Of course the difference here is that I was scum because THERE IS NO GOOD FUCKING REASON FOR TOWN TO FAKE GUILTIES

everyone who says that gambits sometimes work is right--- but that doesn't justify it. If you randomly shoot a stranger in the head, sure they MIGHT have been a child molester. But more likely, you just murdered an innocent person and now you're going to prison.

If you have to fake a guilty as town YOU ARE PLAYING BADLY. Find another way to push the lynch you want. Faking a guilty as town shows a lack of imagination as well as teamwork. DONT FUCKING DO IT. NOT TODAY NOT TOMORROW NOT NEVER. It is an OBJECTIVELY STUPID THING TO DO.

I admitted I played badly, I don't know why it needs to be analyzed to death.

I meant you as in the universal you.

If you took my words to mean they were directed at you personally, then they still apply.

[GuyInFreezer]

I mean I lie about my claim quite a lot (miller as IC, macho as bomb, cop as tracker, PGO as doctor, 1-shot cop 1-shot jailkeep conditional innocent child JoaT as as mafia roleblocker etc) but I only do so if those fakeclaim helps me further my win condition. In my book it's fine for me for people to pull something weird as long as it contributes to the win condition AND the risk doesn't overshadow reward.

[kuribo]

But that's not the same as faking a guilty on someone


One of my favorite fake claims as town was when I saw Fate claim VT during mass claim and then flip doctor. That was a pro-town fake claim.
I've also seen him fake tracker guilties on town players. That's an example of the other kind.

[BROseidon]

Pretty sure faking VT as doctor is just standard...

[pieguyn]

I'm probably one of the few people who thinks faking a guilty is valid, *only if* you're competent enough to

1. be correct about it within all reasonable certainty - AKA, as everyone else is saying, you have to be a competent player who knows what the standard play is. 100% of the time, people who fake guilties just bc lol are too incompetent to know when to be able to fake a guilty; it should only be done if you're competent enough to know when you're analyzing a situation objectively and someone really just does have as good a chance of flipping scum as you think
2. be able to identify when you won't be able to get someone lynched via normal means.

I've seen a game (NY167 - this is my assessment of it, YMMV) where a town player faked a guilty and it wound up completely fucking the scum team (who otherwise were in a really good position with a majority of players being lost in The Mist) in the ass bc they all tripped over themselves trying to get out of it and then it snowballed from there. I've also seen a game (Pokemon) where someone faked a guilty and it fucked the whole game. what I'm saying is kind of self-fulfilling in that it amounts to "it's only acceptable if you're right" - but there are some situations where it can be beneficial, if the person who is doing it actually knows how to make that kind of judgement

this is all my opinion and I'm aware I have a very very liberal view of it. /shrug

[Kagami]

I'm probably one of the few people who thinks faking a guilty is valid, *only if* you're competent enough to

1. be correct about it within all reasonable certainty - AKA, as everyone else is saying, you have to be a competent player who knows what the standard play is. 100% of the time, people who fake guilties just bc lol are too incompetent to know when to be able to fake a guilty; it should only be done if you're competent enough to know when you're analyzing a situation objectively and someone really just does have as good a chance of flipping scum as you think
2. be able to identify when you won't be able to get someone lynched via normal means.

Everyone who thinks faking a guilty is a reasonable thing to do believes they are competent enough for 1 and 2. They're often wrong, based on pretty much every game I've read that's included a faked guilty.

If you're talking about a fake guilty that you then retract before a lynch occurs, there are reasonable arguments for that. If you do though, then you're going to out the real investigator pretty much 100% of the time.

[quadz08]

I'm probably one of the few people who thinks faking a guilty is valid, *only if* you're competent enough to

1. be correct about it within all reasonable certainty - AKA, as everyone else is saying, you have to be a competent player who knows what the standard play is. 100% of the time, people who fake guilties just bc lol are too incompetent to know when to be able to fake a guilty; it should only be done if you're competent enough to know when you're analyzing a situation objectively and someone really just does have as good a chance of flipping scum as you think
2. be able to identify when you won't be able to get someone lynched via normal means.

if you think faking a guilty is valid, you have automatically disqualified yourself from being capable of determining 1 and 2 with reasonable accuracy

[pieguyn]

Everyone who thinks faking a guilty is a reasonable thing to do believes they are competent enough for 1 and 2. They're often wrong, based on pretty much every game I've read that's included a faked guilty.

yeah, exactly

I 100% agree the majority of people who would fake a guilty are by nature too incompetent to know when it would be a valid play as I'm defining it here. I'm not trying to say that it should be a commonplace thing or anything like that.

I'm merely saying that there exist scenarios where it is actually valid, even though they are very rare. to put it in perspective, I think I've seen exactly 2 players, ever, who have faked a guilty in a way I'd consider valid (NY167 was one of them). that is 2 occasions out of probably 1000+ games. that is how much of a ridiculously niche scenario I'm referring to here

I've never faked a guilty, btw (and have only ever considered it once - as it turns out, it would have been on scum, and I was >95% sure said player was scum - but I didn't bc it would have been an extremely poor idea and even if it wasn't I don't even consider that a high enough confidence level). after Pokemon, I likely won't even consider it in the future, either.

[Metal Sonic]

I'm probably one of the few people who thinks faking a guilty is valid, *only if* you're competent enough to

1. be correct about it within all reasonable certainty - AKA, as everyone else is saying, you have to be a competent player who knows what the standard play is. 100% of the time, people who fake guilties just bc lol are too incompetent to know when to be able to fake a guilty; it should only be done if you're competent enough to know when you're analyzing a situation objectively and someone really just does have as good a chance of flipping scum as you think
2. be able to identify when you won't be able to get someone lynched via normal means.

if you think faking a guilty is valid, you have automatically disqualified yourself from being capable of determining 1 and 2 with reasonable accuracy

once you fake enough guilties, you'll be able to determine which reactions are from scum and which are from town /

this is a joke guys.

[pieguyn]

there was a game a long time ago where, as far as I've heard (I haven't read it, someone correct me if I'm wrong) Cabd faked a cop inno on ffery bc ffery is just that easy to read and she was being run up anyway for nonsense reasons

that is an example of what I would consider a valid faked result. it only happened because the person doing it was competent enough to be able to be entirely objective about it

all I'm saying here is that there are people who are capable of doing it in certain situations. I'm not saying it shouldn't be extremely rare (as in, almost never happen), but flat-out ruling it out 100% of the time is incorrect.

[Metal Sonic]

I've lied about having a guilty on someone. At least twice. (Okay both slots were mastin hydras) They were town and scum won the game because of it.

Of course the difference here is that I was scum because THERE IS NO GOOD FUCKING REASON FOR TOWN TO FAKE GUILTIES

everyone who says that gambits sometimes work is right--- but that doesn't justify it. If you randomly shoot a stranger in the head, sure they MIGHT have been a child molester. But more likely, you just murdered an innocent person and now you're going to prison.

If you have to fake a guilty as town YOU ARE PLAYING BADLY. Find another way to push the lynch you want. Faking a guilty as town shows a lack of imagination as well as teamwork. DONT FUCKING DO IT. NOT TODAY NOT TOMORROW NOT NEVER. It is an OBJECTIVELY STUPID THING TO DO.

I admitted I played badly, I don't know why it needs to be analyzed to death.

I meant you as in the universal you.

If you took my words to mean they were directed at you personally, then they still apply.

lol'd hard at this, though.





actually my piece of advice: ALWAYS be responsible and ACKNOWLEDGE when you fuck up. it's that simple.

mafiascum is black and white. flips are binary. you're either right or wrong. if you're right, that's great, keep up the good work. but if you're wrong, apologise, try not to make that mistake again, and learn from it.

everyone makes mistakes. but nobody likes a responsibility dodger. i particularly hate responsibility dodgers -- those who fuck games up and pretend nothing happened/it was someone else's fault.

don't be one. and i think that is fundamental.

[Metal Sonic]

there was a game a long time ago where, as far as I've heard (I haven't read it, someone correct me if I'm wrong) Cabd faked a cop inno on ffery bc ffery is just that easy to read and she was being run up anyway for nonsense reasons

that is an example of what I would consider a valid faked result. it only happened because the person doing it was competent enough to be able to be entirely objective about it

all I'm saying here is that there are people who are capable of doing it in certain situations. I'm not saying it shouldn't be extremely rare (as in, almost never happen), but flat-out ruling it out 100% of the time is incorrect.

eh.

there are always exceptions to the rule.

though flips are black and white, the process of the game itself can take infinite variations. the game is grey.

the rule is: "don't fake guilties".

99% of people will have this rule apply to them.

1% of people, or even 0.001% are able to break this rule, and even make it an advantage. i consider myself one of them. but yeah

your statement applies for every guideline on earth or human society.


in short, i think the status quo is OK.