How to Understand Titus as any Alignment

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How to Understand Titus as any Alignment

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm

Post by Titus »

I know people have a dickens of a time understanding me, so I'm going to lay my thought process bare. Try not to nitpick here, but the idea is I have very few games right now, even in theory, so this is the best time to post how I think. This post will contain no reference to on-going games, even ones that I'm already flipped in.

I think in a very rule based format, and have very basic assumptions. They are called Titus's "Rules" if you will, but I rarely refer to them so explicitly.

Rule 1:
Eliminate the Impossible, whatever's left must be true no matter how improbable.
Rule 2:
Count the bodies. How close is each side/faction to its wincon? If there's a chance for any side to win but yours, be very careful with any action. Doubly so if it's "obvious" and vocally pushed.

Derived Rule 1:
The only innocents are bodies or mod confirmed townies. Yes, while it's unlikely for certain fakeclaims to exist, they are not confirmed town. Most of the time claims that would have to be ridiculous to be fakeclaims are. Yet, don't assume a claim is real because the scum motivation is not immediately apparent.

Derived Rule 2:
Read the setup and become intimately familiar with the mechanics. This is derived from rules 1 and 2. Scum love creating false impressions of setups, to get town to do stupid things. For an example of this, check out M-FM Frozen Throne. In that game, my scumteam had a redirector that was hidden from the town. I (posting as Mal'Ganis) was checked on Night 3. Everyone at the town was presuming I was town, which allowed us to get additional nightkills and blitz the game at the end. The town made the wrong assumptions throughout. Mini Theme 1539: UDesign is also a good episode of this.

Derived Rule 3:
There will be two storylines (at least) through any given game of mafia. The goal is to make sure your version of the truth wins. The first is the truth, where town catches the scum. The additional narratives are what scum want you to believe.
This is where my reference of mafia being a mental chessmatch comes from.


Good scum will draft a story that explains all of their actions. To craft this story the most effectively, they'll want information about which PRs are where. This is the secondary side of why rolefishing is bad. Both town and scum are controlling which information gets released but in a selected manner. Scum do not want to claim a PR early, unless it is the only way to survive because of the fact they could draw a counter and for ever be known as scum. If they are claiming PR due to a fakeclaim being given, it makes sense to claim that role early as possible with possible hints to be seen later.

Yes, that looks like crumbing. That's part of the reason a good scum claim is hard to distinguish from a good town claim. For instance, see my one-shot lightning rod claim in UPick Fire and Ice. There, I always said my role was provable, which was the absolute truth. Because I could "prove" my role, it bought me time to survive and get the slot I replaced out away from a jam.

Micro 269 is another example, although one that doesn't fly with Llamaluff pushing PR v VT claims early usually. Looking particularly at Post 711, the claim from Stuffed Crust upset all the claims existing in the game in lylo.



Titus's thoughts on playing town based on these rules, more behavioral thoughts than steadfast rules.

1) Lying is one of the least effective tools to get out information or craft a narrative. Hence, why I very rarely use it as town or scum. If a player is caught in a lie, the why is much more important of an alignment indicator than the what. I have lied once Fire and Ice (offsite). I was teaching the importance of gambits and why townies sometimes lie. There the ice kill went missing and I was the townie immune to the ice kill. That meant one of two things, either I was shot, or scum shot each other. By claiming, I could reasonably infer that scum would come after me because there was a faction that could not die to my kill. Revolution mafia is a good example as well. TSO claimed VT as the doctor during massclaim. His claim had a backup doctor with no doctor. That nearly confirmed one of the slots in the game (as scum rarely claim backup to a role that does not "appear" to exist, the narrative is too messy) and made sure scum couldn't just shoot the doctor.

Nine times out of ten, lying just causes chaos, so it should be used very sparingly. Like fats in a diet.

2) Day 1 is the least effect day in the world,
during day 1
but the most effective day in the world at the end of the game. Scum generally (but not always) do not bus day 1. I've even bussed day one. See
Book of Shadows
and
Mini 1652: Sweet Dreams
, so far from impossible.


Titus's unique vocabulary

Townbeard - A player that makes you look like town as scum and/or townreads the scumteam.
Retconning - Retroactive continuity - Changing perceptions of the facts to fit a narrative when the facts have changed. For an unbiased sample, look at the Ace Attorney Video Games. Mini Theme 1539 is a good example as well. I kept moving the goal posts of when I would explode as a suicide bomber due to unforseen circumstances.


Titus's odd behavior

1) WHY ALL THE FUCKING POSTS?

Quite a few of my posts are autocorrect things that I don't notice. I am working on cutting those down. Aside from those, I favor more realtime conversations. If a game is slow and I'm not poking to pick up the pace, bet good money I am a scum or a PR or having real life issues. It's much harder to keep up a facade in real time. You're juggling what you know, what town knows, and what you should know as town, it's a complicated mess of a facade to keep track of. Add in faking reads, it becomes harder to do for
most
in real time.

The opposite is that if you can keep that up, real time posting is good to appear genuine and is better to persuade with if you have many points. Walls with lots of points gets skipped. Many posts of interaction are hard to miss. So if you're goal is to persuade, you want to try to ascertain what is important to people and post along those lines.

2) WHY DO YOUR POSTS MAKE NO FUCKING SENSE?

Read this. If my posts still make no sense, look for assumptions in the posts.

3) WHY DO YOU TUNNEL PEOPLE SO MUCH?

Because people insist on doing things that are anti-town for no reason or they are scum. *shrug* I suppose people play smart. If you don't play smart, I will scumread you. You don't post, expect that scumread to come if there's no real world reason to avoid posting.

4) WHY SO PARANOID?

I'm paranoid as town, precisely because I know how to be scum well. As town, your job is to counter all the bullshit scum put forth in the thread and box them in if you will. I was unfortunately trapped well by Pirate ika in Hilariously Unbalanced. I had convinced ika by the end, but Mollie was convinced I was scum. I had to clear people I wanted lynched as scum because of my role.

That game was also an excellent example of how my paranoia should manifest as town. I don't rule out possibilities fairly suggested by the setup until they are mathmatically impossible. I wound up talking myself out of a victory because I was convinced there were communists in the game.

Given that scum scumhunt in multiball, it's a perfect example of both my town and scumgames put together.




If you have any questions, about how I approach things generally, feel free to ask. VCA will be explained later, as it requires more than a couple paragraphs to do properly. I'll also need to refine it given some recent events with it.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:16 pm

Post by Ankamius »

I really wish I could make the same type of post about me, but I don't understand how I think any better than anyone else. This is why I can't play scum worth a crap.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2015 8:24 pm

Post by MonkeyMan576 »

I don't think it's my job to tell people how to read me.*shrug*
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2015 9:42 pm

Post by SleepyKrew »

I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.
To be clear: quack
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2015 10:07 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

In post 3, SleepyKrew wrote:I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.

What would be the point of that, nobody is going to read it if it exists.
I'm gaining the exact same amount of information from the amount I've read of this one.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sat May 23, 2015 11:19 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

Very useful. At nothing.

You make no sense three times out of four.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 12:17 am

Post by Soft-spoken »

duplicate post :3
Last edited by Soft-spoken on Sun May 24, 2015 12:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 12:17 am

Post by Soft-spoken »

half of this is self-evident, some of it is misguided.

all of it tells me that you have played, or should play, on epicmafia. it fits your style.

I suppose people play smart. If you don't play smart, I will scumread you. You don't post, expect that scumread to come if there's no real world reason to avoid posting.


this is kinda face-palm imo. its not very smart to scumread dumb or misguided people. most scum players keep a wrap on controversial banter unless they think it will benefit them. if someone is being dumb, its almost a towntell unless you can find a motive.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 4:46 am

Post by Plotinus »

I am reading this with interest but I don't want to ask questions yet because ongoing.
The failure mode of clever is asshole.

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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 5:33 am

Post by Titus »

In post 7, Soft-spoken wrote:half of this is self-evident, some of it is misguided.

all of it tells me that you have played, or should play, on epicmafia. it fits your style.

I suppose people play smart. If you don't play smart, I will scumread you. You don't post, expect that scumread to come if there's no real world reason to avoid posting.


this is kinda face-palm imo. its not very smart to scumread dumb or misguided people. most scum players keep a wrap on controversial banter unless they think it will benefit them. if someone is being dumb, its almost a towntell unless you can find a motive.


There's a difference between illogical and dumb here. It's impossible to silence whole lines of talk unless hyper posting about something else and not even then.

If there's not a town reason to push something, it's more likely than not scum.
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 6:18 am

Post by pirate mollie »

didn't read any of it
whew!
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 6:30 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

In post 0, Titus wrote:I'll also need to refine it given some recent events with it.

Image
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 6:42 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

mollie wrote:didn't read any of it
Get this spam outta here!
:P
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 6:53 am

Post by SilverWolf »

Holy crap, Titus is clearly scum here. :wink:
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun May 24, 2015 2:02 pm

Post by ika »

will never use this thread for any reason
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 5:53 am

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Alternate option: lynch her, see her flip, and then assume that her thought process of that of the alignment she flipped.
/runs
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WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 7:43 am

Post by Malakittens »

In post 10, pirate mollie wrote:didn't read any of it


D:
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 8:33 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

I understand her so much better when I smoke weed. (I know you got mad at me saying that, but it's not meant to be an insult.)

It's true of a lot of players that I have trouble understanding. Some people just think differently.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 8:34 am

Post by notscience »

._.
Show
STRIKE HARD

STRIKE FAST

NO MERCY
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 9:46 am

Post by Nero Cain »

Titus is town when she has very strange reasons for suspecting those players and refuses to budge.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 4:52 pm

Post by Malakittens »

If she makes sense in a game she probably scum.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Tue May 26, 2015 4:52 pm

Post by Malakittens »

Ilytitus <3
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.


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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2015 2:21 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 19, Nero Cain wrote:Titus is town when she has very strange reasons for suspecting those players and refuses to budge.

Nope. She does that as scum too.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2015 4:11 am

Post by Espeonage »

Petition to force Muffinman to post about he managed to track the density of certain adjectives he posted when town and then use that as scum to win a game.
Don't @ me.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Thu May 28, 2015 11:35 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 3, SleepyKrew wrote:I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.
Actually...I have.

I've been meaning to post it, too. It's about a year out of date, though, but I started compiling a way around Mafia with the Quickness 2 called, "How to read Mastin: the flowchart".

Spoiler: Stuff about it
mastin2 wrote:The flowchart, while half a year old in its latest version, still applies more than it doesn't, by the way.
I'll condense it down for you, though:
If Mastin is scum, accept the loss; she's going to win regardless of what you do. :P So treat her like town.
If Mastin is town, then she is town. Treat her as town. If she wants to be listened to, listen to her and trust her instincts. If she doesn't tell you to listen to her, take her words with a grain of salt; they're reads but not solid ones.
BAM.
You now know how to treat Mastin.
Will work out for you nearly every single game. :P


mastin2 wrote:
In post 1170, Aneninen wrote:Summary. I think I realized my problem with Mastin. Her reads are changing very quickly and they're moving on a very, very wide scale.
Helpful hint, you have absolutely no reason to trust me on this right now, but this is a MASSIVE towntell for me. On the "how to read Mastin: the flowchart" I made (I need to track down the most up-to-date version), it's one of the primary items, in fact. The reason? Town Mastin doesn't have a clue what's going on. Her reads are in a state of constant flux, specifically because of that, and her own self-doubt, paranoia, and whatnot betrays her, as she constantly second-guesses herself and reevaluates, rethinks, and redoes stuff. In contrast, scuMastin has absolute control of the game. Whereas town-Mastin is defined by inconsistency, scuMastin is defined by consistent, solid, controlled, calculated play. She keeps the same reads as much as possible, because it serves to antagonize the least number of players. She is calm, collected, and cool. She is strategic. She is focused. Her thoughts are logical and precise, because she has a good handle on the game, and thus, her mind does not betray her.

Or in short, the difference between town and scum is the difference between chaos and order. Now, obviously, this isn't absolute. There have been towngames where I've felt in control, rare as they may be. There have been scumgames where I was chaotic, either by circumstances or in one or two cases me faking my town chaos convincingly. But it IS a fairly solid general guideline. I know what I'm doing as scum; I'm just taking my best guess and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks as town.

I bet she has quite a few "playstyles" (and she knows, I think, why I'm saying this.)
Indeed I do. Fairly certain I said so already in this game, too, the reason why: because my play in games is fluid, thanks to situational awareness. While I might not know what's going on as town, I can generally feel out the game and have an idea for what will work best, adapting to have a playstyle specific to that game. It's mildly helpful, since it lets me hone in on scum better, but situational awareness mostly helps me as scum, because as scum, adapting my play to the game when I have more info than my town self does is
lethally
effective.


mastin2 wrote:Though that does remind me, I need a point in there about focusing on scumhunting.
In post 1372, TheAdrienC wrote:I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.
Right, that's another one I need to add in.


mastin2 wrote:
In post 644, Slice of Life wrote:
How To Read Mastin
:

Are you zMuffinman?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->
Are you AngryPidgeon?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->
Are you a player who has hydraed or has otherwise worked well with Mastin?

Yes-->You likely don't need the chart, but because you're not that familiar with her, you should probably go through it anyway as a precaution.
No-->You REALLY need to go through the chart; proceed! But fair warning in advance that it's only about 90% accurate.

Is/Are zMuffinman/AP in the game?

Yes-->Sheep them on their read! Never doubt it.
No-->Think like them and continue on.

THE FLOWCHART:

Is it D1?
Yes-->...And you're suspicious of Mastin?!?
She's town.
No-->Is it D2? Yes-->She's prob-town.
No-->Is it D3 or later? Yes-->Proceed.

Does Mastin look town?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed to next step.

Trust her as town.
What does she do?

Get paranoid of you-->She's town.
Enthusiastically work with you-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Nothing-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Milk your townread and bully you-->Proceed.

Suddenly pressure her.
What does she do?

Freak out-->She's town.
Show concern, but subdued-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Brush it off-->Proceed.

Is she posting up a storm?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she gloating how good her scumgame is?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does Mastin have delusions of grandeur?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she waffling...
...A lot?

Yes-->She's town.
Sorta?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does she look like she's trying to leave a legacy?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she antagonizing everyone?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Has Mastin rambled at all on MD theory?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making a case for why she could be scum?
Yes-->She's town.
Kinda?-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making very strong reasons why she's town?
No-->She's town.
Kinda-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

If applicable, did she 'crumb her role and/or claim it openly and immediately?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Do the circumstances behind her play and/or claim look town?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she irrational?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she spewing random illogical theories?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does her posting look intentional?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed.

Is she spontaneous, random, and/or whimsical?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is her tone flat?

No-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

(BONUS:
If Mastin is behind, does she demonstrate knowledge of the
current
gamestate she could not reasonably have at her supposed point of reference?

No-->She's town.
It's hard to say...-->She probably does know, but not much, having likely skimmed offline, not logged in, and chose not to get the full context to spoiler her as probable-town.
Yes-->Proceed.)

And finally...

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

Yes-->She's town; defend her!
...Maybe?-->You've gotten this far and the best you've got is a "maybe"?!? You dummy, run through it again! (But she's probably town anyway.)-->All other factors equal, if you're having this much trouble reading Mastin, just freakin' assume she's town. (She likely is, anyway.)-->FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, SHE'S TOWN, DANG IT.
No-->She's probably scum...but you should run through the flowchart one more time just to be sure, as a precaution.
Is Mastin's posting wildly inconsistent?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
No-->Proceed.)


(Oh, and I think rambling in-thread's already there*, but if not, it should be.)
*Relies on scum having daychat. Scum have daychat, in-thread rambling = decent towntell. Scum don't have daychat, rambling = prob-null, maybe slight townlean. Scum daychat ambiguous, assume slight townlean.
(Oh, should be noted. Last scum, rambling in-thread gets upgraded to major towntell, since scuMastin typically keeps rambles to the scum QT about why she's screwed.)


mastin2 wrote:Totally should just, in general, take this policy about me.
There's a flowchart that I plan to publish that will give better tells for reading me in general, some of which are timeless, others which are in contemporary site meta, but valuable all the same. Until it's actually published, though, the general policy I have on reading me is, increasingly, becoming:

Just assume I'm town until you have a REALLY solid reason not to. You'll be right the VAST majority of the time, by sheer probability alone.
(In fact, beyond probability. Probability says I should be scum a minimum of 25% of the time. 2014's been something like half that overall.)
It'll save you a BUNDLELOADS of headaches.
(Should be noted that my record was 34 games IN A ROW as town and my scumgame remains STILL below statistical probability in numbers.)

mastin2 wrote:"If you're townreading Mastin, lynch her. She's scum, having successfully predicted your movements and is manipulating you. You fell into her trap, hook, line, and sinker.
If you're scumreading Mastin, she's town; save her from the lynch. She's probably either really onto something or really lost. In either case, she needs your help, either to sheep her or help her develop more accurate reads."
Some of them are out of date thanks to contextual meta shifts, but most of them still apply.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!
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