TempBan for Players Who Sign Up and Refuse To Play

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am not proposing banning lurkers. What I am saying is that we ban players who ruin games with trolling, do we not? How is signing up for a game and then blatantly not playing any less of an offense?

Example:

Player A: Hey Player C, why haven't you posted anything game related in all of your 50 posts?

Player C: Because I don't care.

Player B: Then why did you sign up?

Player C: Does it matter?

Player A: What are your reads?

Player C: I don't have any. I'm not really reading the game.

Player B: Do you need to be replaced then?

Player C: No. I just don't care.

***Lynch Player C. He was town.***

^ I have come across this shit far too often. It's not fair to the people who signed up to play game with others, only to have one of their team mates take up space and blatantly do nothing. Literally... not playing the game.

Again, this is

not

about lurking. This is just another form of trolling in my opinion. It's like a hockey player laying down on the ice. And I really think we need to make this punishable.

If you're going to ban people for ruining games, then ban people for ruining games.

[Fro99er]

+1

[InflatablePie]

Wisdom of the Crowds.

[edit] I guess if this happens in multiple games, over and over again, then yeah.

[saulres]

I support the gist, but don't understand how you differentiate between the example you gave and lurkers, nor how to define the rule to make it enforceable.

For example, what happens when Player A says "Hey Player C, why haven't you posted anything game related in all of your 50 posts?" and Player C ignores it?

Or when a player is prodded and in response posts "prod received" and nothing else until the next they're prodded? Is that lurking, or trolling? Either way it's "refusing to play"...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right, not lurkers. I'm talking about players who are posting and not actually interacting with the game/other players, not actually contributing anything, not actually playing the game. They are posting, but they are not playing.

Of course there will be players who don't know what to say, but I'm specifically talking about players who admit to not playing the game, and do not just ask to be replaced.

I would post specific examples but I don't particularly feel like pointing fingers at specific people.

[FakeGod]

I have a question, ETL.

In the scenario you described, had the player C flipped scum, would that justify his behavior?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I have a question, ETL.

In the scenario you described, had the player C flipped scum, would that justify his behavior?

It would make more logical sense to me personally, but no, it would not justify it as he's still letting his team down by deliberately and blatantly not playing the game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"Not playing" is not a scum strategy that should ever be used.

[Zachrulez]

This starts getting too much in the territory of telling other people how to play a game though, not to mention playing like you described IS a legitimate way to play as scum in that it deliberately makes you difficult to read. You can't punish a behavior as town that's a legitimate style as another alignment. That makes it too obvious then that a player who is active lurking is scum because otherwise they'll get banned. Can you see how that's a problem?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This starts getting too much in the territory of telling other people how to play a game though, not to mention playing like you described IS a legitimate way to play as scum in that it deliberately makes you difficult to read. You can't punish a behavior as town that's a legitimate style as another alignment. That makes it too obvious then that a player who is active lurking is scum because otherwise they'll get banned. Can you see how that's a problem?

It's not a legitimate style.

It's not even a "style".

It's

literally not playing the fucking game.

[Zachrulez]

I guess I'm getting banned in every scum game I play moving forward then.

If you ban this kind of play, then you ban scum pretending they're not invested.

This is why you can't police a mafia game this way. Just blacklist active lurkers and move on with your life. Why can't people seem to get past mislynches of styles they hate?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's your prerogative. I'm not looking for snark. I'm looking for an actual discussion about this. Responding by saying "well I'm just going to play like this to spite you and prove my point" is childish and detracts from the issue I am trying to bring up.

I understand your disagreement; I just happen to think you are wrong.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not wrong. Active lurking has existed since the beginning of time, and every playing generation before this one has been able to suck it up and not demand the game change because they hate lynching town active lurkers.

Don't lynch them. Investigate them. Vig them. Don't whine because they exist.

[FakeGod]

Putting up a non-responsive front and playing a near-zero information game is something that scum player can and

will

do that will further his team's win condition.

It's up to town to pressure them to get them talking, not up to mods to discourage such behavior with bans.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Active lurking

You are wrong, especially when you obviously do not understand the distinction here.

I'm

not

talking about lurking or actively lurking, which is reading the game and not posting.

I am talking about posting and not playing.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Putting up a non-responsive front and playing a near-zero information game is something that scum player can and

will

do that will further his team's win condition.

It's up to town to pressure them to get them talking, not up to mods to discourage such behavior with bans.

Then why do we ban trolls? There is no difference between posting bullshit



and posting bullshit.

Neither is playing the game.

[Zachrulez]

Active lurking

You are wrong, especially when you obviously do not understand the distinction here.

I'm

not

talking about lurking or actively lurking, which is reading the game and not posting.

I am talking about posting and not playing.

Active lurking has been defined as exactly the type of behavior you are describing and calling for to be banned actually.

[Ether]

I wouldn't mind if there was a way to let the town call for force-replacements, with the mod allowed to subjectively veto it to prevent too much abuse. (In general, objective modding is overrated.)

Someone who consistently does nothing but dodge prods is someone I'd replace as a mod without any other input, but the line gets blurrier as the lurking gets more active.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Active lurking

You are wrong, especially when you obviously do not understand the distinction here.

I'm

not

talking about lurking or actively lurking, which is reading the game and not posting.

I am talking about posting and not playing.

Active lurking has been defined as exactly the type of behavior you are describing and calling for to be banned actually.

Except, no. It hasn't.

Actively lurking is reading the game and not posting. It's discovered when you call someone out and they are there with a relevant response, even though they are seemingly "too busy" to play.

I appreciate your opinion on the original query. Please do not derail the discussion.

[Zachrulez]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ve_Lurking

First line

"Active Lurking is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking),

but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting."

I don't care or I'm not paying attention qualifies under the definition.

[chamber]

Posting and not playing is basically the definition of active lurking.

[Zachrulez]

I wouldn't mind if there was a way to let the town call for force-replacements, with the mod allowed to subjectively veto it to prevent too much abuse. (In general, objective modding is overrated.)

Someone who consistently does nothing but dodge prods is someone I'd replace as a mod without any other input, but the line gets blurrier as the lurking gets more active.

I can understand why a mod might want to do that. I personally dislike trying to define what a post is as a mod. (I don't think I've ever seen a prod dodger NOT eventually flake though.)

[FakeGod]

I disagree, Ether. If you want a troll-free cast of players, do it with WOTC prior to game start.

There is no need to put in a system like that which can be exploited midgame.

[Heartless]

Wisdom of the Crowds.

+ wisdom of the mod

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't care or I'm not paying attention qualifies under the definition.

I find it to be abhorrent and unacceptable play. It ruins games. Perhaps it ruins it more for town players than other players, but at least 75% of all players in all games on the site are going to be town players, so we allow this kind of behavior to exist because its "a valid strategy" for scum even though it ruins games for the majority of players on the site?

It's extremely frustrating to put all your effort into a game, only to watch your team mate throw the entire thing because he couldn't care less.

If you think it needs to be defined better, then, please, help me define it better.