Scum Hunting - Why do I suck at it?

[Draynth]

Hi!

To be honest, the subject is pretty self explanatory. I'm awful at scum hunting, I never really know what to look for.
I usually end up questioning a ton of people, being scumread for not doing anything about following up on the questions, and then scumread even more for making up reads because I dunno what I'm looking for.
I was wondering if anyone had any tips / signs they look for when hunting scum / some sort of article etc. that I can read for the same info.

Thanks!

[Plotinus]

Have you been scum yet in any of your completed games? It gets a little easier once you’ve been scum and you know what you were trying to do and what your buddies were trying to do.

[Draynth]

Yep, I've been scum in two of my completed games so far.
One of my big problems is that I always end up with the dilemma of 'Is he scum trying to look town or is he actually town', or something similar, in my head.
I guess being indecisive as a person doesn't really help much...

[Plotinus]

I think early on it might be better to just townread people who might be scum trying to look town. If you make it to LYLO with them you can get paranoid but for the first few days it’s better to townread them, because about 75% of the players are actually town. i tend to be pretty indecisive too, though. and i get paranoid about weird stuff.

if you see someone acting like a scum from a previous game, that can be a sign this player is scum too.

[Draynth]

Hmm that's a good tip, thanks

[Porochaz]

Question the reasons behind everything. You think something is scummy, why do you think it's scummy? Someone else thinks something is scummy, why? but also what is their motivation for bringing it up? what is behind it? For instance, have they played with the player before, do you see where they are coming from, are they able to give you a meaningful background into their suspicions?

Sometimes people just slip, other times you have to dig into their own suspicions and have a look at what town (or scum) motivation they have for doing what they do and sometimes you have to set out on your own. You see something you don't like? Question it? They answer and explain, you either go alright, question further or vote and push your case further. Sometimes as well, particularly early on, it's okay to use your gut. As you play more and you play with some of the same players again you might notice differences in their scum and town games. In the meantime, you could look back on other games players you are suspicious of have played and see if their play is any different.

It's not foolproof and it can be a crapshoot at times, but honestly, most players who play mafia are the same. Most of us don't know what we are doing half the time.

[Oversoul]

I wish I could help. But I suck at scumhunting too.

[Bacde]

Just sheep me, you'll be finding scum in no time!

[Ankamius]

Here's some stuff I try to do when I'm town. YMMV since I think my methods are kind of 'out there', but some concepts might help you out.

1. Look at motivations rather than actions. Looking at what people are doing are something like 20% of the scumhunting I do. I predominantly look at why someone would make the post they did.
2. Don't reveal all your thoughts when you're questioning someone. If you have a point against someone that you need more context on and you ask leading questions without letting on to what your point is, just the way they respond can speak wonders.
3. Look at how people are interacting with your reads. This is especially good if there are confirmed town players in the game that you know about, but aren't public knowledge. Since you already remove half of the possibilities of what the engagement can be, it's more likely that you'll be able to find likely patterns that tend to crop up since there's a less volatile feedback loop. This is the biggest reason why I love to analyze wagons on myself.
4. With the above, use your reads to form other reads. Have a strong town read? Look at their engagements with other players or how people interact with and towards them. It's the same concept as the above, but not as black and white.
5. Learn how to analyze wagons. How wagons form, build, stall, and dissipate are huge information mines. If you can recognize town wagons from scum wagons, it'll be a great source of reads for the future.
6. Try to figure out what game plan the scum have. I recently finished a game where I was conftowned yet it was never concretely stated in the thread. I was a necessary mislynch for scum to win the game, so naturally the only slot that was subtly trying to discredit the conftown result was scum. If you're fighting against a scum player that's really tricky to catch in other ways, it's worth trying to figure out what scum are planning for in the present, near future, and endgame.
7. Stop giving a fuck about how people read you. I'm not sure if this is a problem for you or not, but I've found that I'm disgustingly transparent when I get put under heavy pressure, simply because I am confident that I'll be able to get out of a lynch as town no matter how desolate it looks. This ties in with #3, since one of the easiest ways to get concrete reads for me is to get wagoned. It's rare that I get fully mislynched as town, and almost all of the times I have were because of gambits or something with the set-up rather than my own play.

[kuribo]

1. Smell their fear. Scum are by nature paranoid, but also brazen. Fuel that paranoia. If you're not on to them, you will be shortly. Make sure they know it. Make sure they know you're aware of their fear for you. Savor the smell of their terror, it will be your guide.

2. Divine their intent. Once you know they fear you, you must seek them through their own actions. Scum agendas are more focused than town. A town is disorganized, they don't know what they're doing anymore than you do. Scum has a plan. Discover their plan, and you discover their identities--- show me what a man wants, and I'll show you who he is.

3. Find a crack in their game, then hit it hard. No scum game is perfect, even the best has its weaknesses. An ill-timed vote. A poorly worded lie. The more pressure you apply, the more likely these imperfections are likely to surface. Do not relent. Teach them the meaning of suffering. Show them the folly of rolling opposite alignment to you. Remember that given the chance, they will murder you in your sleep.

4. Ignore their pleas of mercy. You are a town-driven killing machine, whose only purpose is vengeance. Avenge the fallen innocent with the blood of the guilty.

5. Push their lynch. If you discover the scum team, and fail to lynch them, you've only done half your job. Destroy them, whether with your logic, or your sheer personality.

BONUS--- Always ask yourself the scum motivation. If you can't figure out why scum would do something, they may not be scum.

[Kagami]

Analyze kills. Everyone dies for a reason.

Analyze interactions with known scum.

Be very suspicious of sudden position changes. They often arise from fear.

In a playerlist of mixed skill, townread "good" players early, then lynch them if they inexplicably outlive weaker players.

On Day 1, lynch the most inexplicably townread player with the least content.

[RedCoyote]

Analyze kills. Everyone dies for a reason.

Analyze interactions with known scum.

Be very suspicious of sudden position changes. They often arise from fear.

In a playerlist of mixed skill, townread "good" players early, then lynch them if they inexplicably outlive weaker players.

On Day 1, lynch the most inexplicably townread player with the least content.

Wow, these are some good tips. Can we hydra together?

[Vampirate]

Honestly I think confidence (not arrogance) plays a role. The more confident you are, or at least make yourself seem you are the more you might get out of your pushes on your scum reads.

[catboi]

Play more and look at what other people do that's successful. Learn by observing. The more you see, the more experience you have to draw on to know when someone's likely to be scum. Just have to keep trying.

[GuyInFreezer]

Just sheep me, you'll be finding scum in no time!

omg Bacde

[kuribo]

Here's basically how to win every game on MS.net:

[Bacde]

I need a flowchart for scumplay

[kuribo]

way ahead of you

[Tere]

Love those flowcharts!

[Draynth]

Those flowcharts are amazing
Also @ everyone who left advice thank you so much, It's a lot more than I expected! It's really appreciated

[T S O]

Kagami's post is the best, but those flowcharts are majestic.

Also - people not being able to explain their reads is a big one. If you point out inconsistencies and their response is mediocre, they're probably scum. Hopping on wagons without much reasoning is another one. As well as that, seriously - analyse the fucking nightkill. And if you see the word WIFOM whoever's using it is very likely wrong.

[T S O]

Or, as I've seen a lot of people doing recently - lurk until LyLo as town banking on the fact that town can't afford to waste a policy lynch on you, being as useless as possible so that scum don't nightkill you. Pop up in LyLo explaining that you've solved the game and you know the identities of the entire scumteam and place your vote down. Seem confused that nobody is following your vote, make no attempt to justify your awful play all game, get mislynched and lose. Oh, and your scumteam was also incorrect. Bitch after the game about how you had it solved if people would just have listened to you. Rinse and repeat.

[Runner]

Does the whole "screaming at town" thing actually work for anyone other than experienced professionals like kuribo?

[Vampirate]

I'm still waiting for that Vanilla Townie chart.

[Ankamius]

Does the whole "screaming at town" thing actually work for anyone other than experienced professionals like kuribo?

Situationally, yes.