Weak Bodyguard . . ?

[pisskop]

Im wondering how to weigh a town weak bodyguard when making a setup.

-He dies when he targets scum
-He dies when he successfullyprotects somebody from 1 kill
-He is much like a weakened hider. Or weakened weak hider, if you prefer. He has to crumb his hides or bgs to avoid confusion as well as his target.

Is he a net gain, or loss? Is he swingy, or setup dependent?

[Ether]

Gain, like other weak roles. (It's a misleading name.) Use it to confirm innocents.

[pisskop]

Is it a big one, or does the bg part of it help in any way mitigate the ability to clear people until scum hits them or them scum?

[Ether]

The bodyguard aspect is probably more likely to get in the way than not, since it limits who you can safely target while you're trying to build up innocents--it kind of forces you to go more for more subtle personal town reads instead of people the town trusts universally. (Normally you can go for either; the point here is that your pool is more limited and that forces you to take more risks, not that going for personal reads is worse in general.) Unless you just want to play like a straight bodyguard, which is probably still the worse option.

[chamber]

Probably a nice role in that when it dies you don't know how it died, which helps never confirm a scum.

[vonflare]

Probably a nice role in that when it dies you don't know how it died, which helps never confirm a scum.

very true.

Weak BG is kinda in a weird place role-wise.


I like it.

[PokerFace]

Hider

Dies if targets scum, Dies if target dies, lives otherwise

If 0 townie dies during the night, you learn his target was town

If 1 townie dies during the night and its not the hider, you learn his target was town

If 1 townie dies during the night and its the hider, you learn his target was scum

If 2 townies die during the night and one is the hider, you learn his target was killed

You should target who you think is town that won't be killed at night. Finding multiple innocents > finding one scum

Weak Doc

Dies if targets scum, Dies if targeted by scum, lives otherwise

If 0 townie die during the night, you learn his target was town and he saved them

If 1 townie dies during the night and its not the wd, you learn his target was town

If 1 townie dies during the night and its the wd, you learn nothing

If 2 townies die during the night and one is the wd, you learn he targeted scum

You should target who you think is town will be killed at night. Finding multiple innocents > finding one scum

Weak BG

Dies if targets scum, Dies if targeted by scum, Dies if scum try to kill his target, lives otherwise

If 0 townie die during the night, you learn his target was town

If 1 townie dies during the night and its not the wbg, you learn his target was town

If 1 townie dies during the night and its the wbg, you learn nothing

If 2 townies die during the night and one is the wbg, you learn he targeted scum

You should target who you think is town that won't be killed at night. Finding multiple innocents > finding one scum

Its comparable to the hider in terms of who you should target. (How you play the role)

Its comparable to a weak doctor in that you get same info as you would get from a weak doctor

But its the weakest of the three as it has the greatest chance of dying each night

Hider > Weak Doctor > Weak BG

[Cheetory6]

I actually almost put a compulsive weak BG in my Disney Mafia game.
Hadn't even thought of the potential implications of it being used to investigate people o.o

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Gain, like other weak roles. (It's a misleading name.) Use it to confirm innocents.

Actually I kind of think the role just causes a lot of speculation and cannot actually confirm anybody. The nature of the death has three possible circumstances behind it.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I would not use a weak bodyguard. It wont do much good and it would just distract games with a lot of nonsense speculation.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wait, I get it! If he continiously protects people without saving them, then he can confirm that they are town. In that case, the role is actually very interesting, if not very difficult to use by an inexperienced player.

[LlamaFluff]

Best move is to probably play it like a hider. Target a town read of yours that likely wont get killed N1, and just claim out the gate D2. Stop targeting at that point unless its game breaking to continue to as it forces two kills from scum at that point.

[BBmolla]

Disagree, I think better move is to target scum and crumb it hard.

[Kagami]

If you're someone who can reasonably expect not to be NKed, accumulating innos is much stronger.

[Antihero]

I would not use a weak bodyguard. It wont do much good and it would just distract games with a lot of nonsense speculation.

i disagree. i think the role has potential and could be interesting.

especially if used in conjunction with an ic.

[pisskop]

I like the theory of it. And Ive used it already.

I like the idea of the wifom.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Just to be clear: the weakened bodyguard is not allowed to self-target, right? Assuming that this is the case, then I think the weakened bodyguard would have a negative utility overall.

Suppose that some weakened bodyguard X

publicly announces

their new target to be some player Y. If Y is mafia, then it can be assumed that the mafia would kill them first. Then the death of X would mean very little. Either X was right and they killed them for that, or that Y is innocent and that the mafia want people to suspect Y.

If X does not publicly announce anything, and is cryptic about possible suspects, then the probability of misinterpreting their posts is still very high. Too high for it to be beneficial.

So, while I like the idea of weakening roles for more balanced game play, I do not think that this particular role would work out so well.

[Cheery Dog]

Unless it's stated otherwise, no roles ever can selftarget.

[vonflare]

I'm pretty sure the standard iteration of cop can self-target (to determine sanity)

[quadz08]

The Normal version of cop is guaranteed sane, so within a normal game it can't self-target. The same applies to very nearly every other use of cop on-site, and non-guaranteed-sane cops are considered bastard.

[vonflare]

considered bastard != never used

[quadz08]

it does mean rarely used, and it's certainly not the standard version

[vonflare]

I would say that out of all the bastard roles, insane cop is used more frequently than most of them.

[quadz08]

uhhhh, sure? you're right? but that's not important to the conversation at hand

[Dwlee99]

I hate weak roles. I feel that you can never find the crumbs of who they targeted when they died.