Read your first newbie game

[kirroha]

Vote:Seraphim

Because he claimed he wasn't the Mafia, and according to this logic:

Seraphim = Not Scum -------- 1
Scum = Not Seraphim -------- 2

Not Seraphim = Scum -------- 3

Seraphim + Not Seraphim = Scum + Not Scum
(Not+1)Seraphim = (Not+1)Scum


Seraphim = Scum

Simple.

cries

What even

i don't know

[Dwlee99]

Vote:Seraphim

Because he claimed he wasn't the Mafia, and according to this logic:

Seraphim = Not Scum -------- 1
Scum = Not Seraphim -------- 2

Not Seraphim = Scum -------- 3

Seraphim + Not Seraphim = Scum + Not Scum
(Not+1)Seraphim = (Not+1)Scum


Seraphim = Scum

Simple.

cries

What even

i don't know

a=b
a^2=ab
a^2-b^2=ab-b^2
(a+b)(a-b)=b(a-b)
a+b=b
a=b so
b+b=b
2b=b
2=1

#DivideByZero

[kirroha]

Holy mother of puddings

[kuribo]

Town won my first newbie game in eight pages and I died N1.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=6083

There is a distressing lack of murder and theatrics to my posts though. Ecch, I get a literal cringe reading some of this timid shit.

HackerHuck, you and I may disagree about whether you're trying to avoid suspicion, and that's fine. But I do disagree.

You've made a clear case against Rogueben, sure, but a little too clear in my mind. We could chit-chat all day for dozens of reasons that Rogueben appears scummy, but to me, you appear scummy too.

What are you looking for from me? For me to comment on your previous post? I already told you that it looks like you're trying to string up Rogueben to protect yourself.

I haven't been Rogueben's biggest supporter this Day, but I would have never advocated putting him at L-1 until we were more certain than speculation that he was scum. You, on the other hand, saw L-1 as a tool to gather more information, knowing full well the risk that he would be lynched back on Page 3. This gambit could have had disastrous outcome for the town, and in my mind, it shows me more about you than your words do. I feel that the reason you were confident enough to take that risk, is because you knew he was a townie, and you knew that at L-1 your scum buddy could come along and lynch. Either one of the votes was removed in time to save him, or your buddy had already voted and you were just waiting to convince a townie to finish the job.

THAT, HackerHuck, is why I feel so strongly towards you being scum, I don't have to outline each and every one of your posts for my opinion, I have stated my opinion twice now, and your actions have reinforced them to me. You've voted people up to L-1, you've lurked, you've bandwagoned, and you've responded with a high level of defensiveness to smallish accusations. Each one of these alone means little, but put them together, and they seem to reveal a more sinister intent.

it's like reading the posts of a complete stranger. Ah, 2007, the olden days, I was still a fresh-faced 20-something married to the love of his life, back before my marriage became insuffurable / hit the rocks

[BROseidon]

My first game was basically a super robotic version of my self that town dunked super hard >.>

[yessiree]

Vote:Seraphim

Because he claimed he wasn't the Mafia, and according to this logic:

Seraphim = Not Scum -------- 1
Scum = Not Seraphim -------- 2

Not Seraphim = Scum -------- 3

Seraphim + Not Seraphim = Scum + Not Scum
(Not+1)Seraphim = (Not+1)Scum


Seraphim = Scum

Simple.

cries

psshhhhh, amatuers

Behold the power of mathematics!!

5 newbs, 3 SEs, and 1 IC; 7 towns, and 2 mafias.

Based on theory of probability distribution, the 2 mafia members could have a distribution as follows:

2 in newb
2 in SE
1 in newb, 1 in SE
1 in newb, 1 in IC
1 in SE, 1 in IC

If we were to calculate the probability of each instance, it will look like this

Code: Select all

2 in newb                 27.78%
2 in SE                   8.33%
1 in newb, 1 in SE        41.67%
1 in newb, 1 in IC        13.89%
1 in SE, 1 in IC          8.33%

Sample calculation

1 in newb, 1 in SE

Code: Select all

P = (1 C 5) * (1 C 3) / (2 C 9) = 15 / 36 = 41.67%

However, this tells us information about 2 people. Since we can only vote on one person at a time, we need to narrow it down. We do this by combining the results of our previous calculations, and calculating the probability of at least 1 person from the user groups is the mafia.

At least 1 person from the newbs is mafia
combining the results, this is a 83.34% chance
At least 1 person from the SE is mafia
58.33% chance
IC is the mafia
22.22% chance

If you're thinking random voting one of the newbs is the most logical choice, you'd be wrong. Here is why:

There are 5 newbs, by randomly choosing one, your chance of being correct is 83.34% / 5 = 16.67%.
Similarly, there are 3 SEs, by randomly choosing one, there is a 19.44% of being correct.
However, since there is only 1 IC, your chance of being correct stands at 22.22%.

[Marquis]

Spoiler: in my early games i tended to put a lot of effort into awkwardly scumreading town which made me inclined to just stop trying for most of my first six months

Subject: Newbie 1395 Game Over

Ok then!~

And you gotta get used to the fact that each and every one of your posts is going to be analysed, even your random votes and reasons.

This was in response to something PHENOM said. She's being helpful, sure, but I'm getting the impression that she's not (at that time) actually seeing any scumreads on him despite this. A town player imo would be more suspicious of a player if they felt the need to say "be careful about what you say" Not a strong case of scum, but it strikes me as off.

I can see how that could be seen as couching, interesting point.

"Interesting point"? I'm glad you apparently agree that you can be seen as scum in that way.

Any reason you are asking me a question, yet you are voting someone else? At this point I'm not in danger of getting lynched, what gives?
VOTE: arelian

Questioning someone is not the same as scumreading them.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Serious vote.

I am aware of that, but the whole point of pressuring someone during RVS is so they answer your questions, and i assume his vote is still RVS, considering he moved it to someone only after i said it was bad that there wasn't anyone with more than 1 vote.

P-Edit: that's another good point right there Phenom.

Why would you tell someone that your vote is for pressure unless they're inactive? If you really suspected them wouldn't you just vote them and tell them why it's scummy? And your vote on arelian here isn't even a pressure vote, it's a vote because you suspected arelian for questioning people while voting you?...

Why is it ok to tell someone my vote is for pressure to begin with? obviously I was going after something else here, I did suspect arelian because he questions someone else and votes me for no apparent reason.

And from looking at your posts, you say you suspected arelian at this point, sure. But when you say you suspected arelian, and voted arelian, but just 4 posts of yours later:

Sakura, does that mean that you got a townread out of arelian and PHENOM? Why?

Not being a scumread =/= being a townread, it's early in the game and everyone's pretty much null so that's why i'm asking questions.

So now you don't suspect or scumread arelian, and it's a null read for you now. Okay, fair enough.

(By the way, the post of yours before that says "Time to start getting into business". Was your vote on arelian earlier not serious at all?)

Then at some point you form a townread on arelian. Why? I know you apparently formed a townread because you go ahead and post this:

My town read on arelian just took a drop

Either you're flipflopping hard, or you're the one contradicting yourself here. Why do I think you're not being real about this? Because arelian's an

easy

townread; they've clearly been providing the most original reads on players and actual game-related content. Because of this, at first you claimed to have suspected them, then townread them, then your townread dropped.

Eh I just realized I misread something on arelian's reads because he used Can Lynch (as in the people they want dead) for Want to lynch, and Willing to Lynch for Can Lynch so I read that thing backwards,

so i take back my drop on arelian's town read

.

But of course, this is a rather convenient explanation. Of course now I can't prove anything about it, but how you've been going all over the place with this read and trying to cover it up is pretty fishy.

Last line is much too passive in comparison to how she's jumping on cases/points that other players have made, and appears to be buddying PHENOM, even. Also it's after this point that YTWC gets pretty close to a lynch despite how Troubles' comment in response to Sakura is very town.

I point out good points where i see them, don't see how that's buddying?

Maybe you'd like to explain why it's a good point or something instead of just saying so? Post something about it that actually belongs to you. It's not exactly buddying, no. But what it is, is easily agreeing with a town player's post as well as giving yourself an easy opinion to follow up to.

For pressure yes, until i get a scumread i can leave my vote on until said scumread poofs.

Again, overexplaining the point of her vote/actions as relating to pressure, when she could have much more easily responded with a simple statement about how she found them scummy. I find that as scum I constantly need to justify my votes to the point where it becomes too much- and Sakura's atm seem like too much.

And again, when you make a pressure vote on someone, if you announce to the world that it's for pressure it's not helping anyone- only needlessly reminding people that you're not committing to the vote. :/

Yet you said earlier that it's ok to announce it's a pressure vote when people are lurking?

Contradiction

Oh, so you actually

are

reading the details of my post against you. Good to know. I had already mentioned the inactivity clause, so I didn't need to mention it here. It's not a contradiction because it was covered earlier.

Want to respond to the part about overexplaining your votes?

UNVOTE:
I don't think a Hammer this early will benefit town at all.

This post sounds like an act. It's normally considered town to not want to hammer someone, and of course Sakura knows this.

YTWC wasn't in any danger of getting hammered

unless one of the voters managed to finally convince another player/an inactive to hop on to the vote. I can very easily see her, as scum, wanting to get easy towncred for being the first one to unvote- even after she and Tomie had supposedly strong scumreads on YTWC.

An intent to hammer is not a danger of getting hammered?

Contradiction

Sure, I forgot about Metal Sonic's dumb comment right before that, that's a contradiction, congratulations. Doesn't mean your post wasn't opportunistic when it came to that. For this post and the next few ones, as you and MS go back and forth, you appear to slowly and deliberately develop a scumread and reasoning for it on Metal Sonic.

Question: Wouldn't it just make more sense as town to immediately suspect and scumread someone who wants to hammer a player only a few days in?
Answer: Yeah. It would.

Do you have any reason for rushing the end of day?

Again, sounds like a contrived by-the-book version of town.

That's painting me as scummy not figuring out my alignment.

Explain. I said it's too by-the-book, comparing it to taking lines from a wiki page about how to look town with stereotypical town characteristics. I don't understand how you're trying to respond to this.

I agree that forcing scum to take a stand is a good way to get information, which is why I also like to encourage people to vote during RVS instead of laying low and not placing votes.

This was the whole post. It's really just empty words without much content. As a whole, it sounds artificial, particularly because Sakura felt the need to add such phrases as "I agree that" and "which is why I also like to", when simply giving a blunter and less elaborate statement would have sounded actually more townlike and genuine.

I don't see your point?, I've always and always will encourage people to take stances

Read pls. It's not what you said but how you said it. I'm sorry if you don't think it's something you can adequately respond to, but when you feel the need to make a post all about this, isn't there anything else you'd like to say besides trying to sound townlike?

Ah I see where you're coming from now, that's indeed odd as well, what do you think about what I posted earlier?

"Ah I see where you're coming from", "that's indeed odd as well", then asks a question about a previous post to seemingly generate discussion instead of committing to anything herself. I know I just pretty much quoted the whole post, but all of it... I didn't like it at all.

Well then tell me which dictionary should I use my words from then since apparently every word in the dictionary is scummy to you, again, not trying to figure out my alignment but assigning me one

Don't be so offended, and don't put words in my mouth. Not every word is scummy, but when you feel the need to add useless fluff to so many of the things you say, I find that scummy.

I've used this phrase before: scum diplomacy. That's when scum makes itself look polite and insightful in order to seem town, when really a lot of it is unnecessary fluff added on.

She's posting a lot and specifically calling out the inactives, sure, but does she really need to be?

Right now, Sakura looks like she's trying to do it all, and it all looks fake.

Why wouldn't i do it? is a better question, i rather give scum less places to hide.

Because it's so easy to call out inactives and use that to look good for it. For a while now you've been calling out Rach in a lot of your posts, because its easy to do so. You're trying too hard to boost yourself up in comparison to a sick/inactive player.

Whereas rhyx's analysis of me and MS sounds and looks genuinely town, Sakura is like the person who has to add on to every comment a "hmmm" and "oh I see" and "that's interesting"; in the case of me and MS, she's taking that one detail from rhyx after a quick "I don't know what you mean" and then in the next post, trying too hard to derive a scumread from it. Again. It's too contrived.

This is my biggest scumread. VOTE: Sakura Hana If you're not seeing what I see here, look at her ISO for yourself. It's really

too

much.

Your whole case contradicts itself, Try again!

Maybe you'd like to reply to this part? For example, instead of saying my

whole case

contradicts itself, explain why a lot of the things you say sound fake or, as ryhx said correctly before and that I agree with and have actually expanded on myself (unlike etc. etc. above), why have you been often so eager to agree with people, in particular with obvtown arelian's reads?

I'm leaving for work now, but let's try again later~

P-edit: good for you that you have suspicions and a vote on Rach; I'm sure we'd all love to actually hear them after hearing that for quite a while! I'm not sure why nobody except for Rach should be too interested in your reasoning for voting her. Don't take too long to come up with one now, dear!~

[Marquis]

would love to see some past-self-analysis from kaney tho

[Cheetory6]

I was very adamant about scumreading people until they defended themselves, at which point they became slightly less likely to be scum to me.
I also wanted to a lynch a claimed cop and everyone call me stupid.
And then the claimed cop ended up being scum who could make people death millers.
Was a dumb game.
Don't play offsite mafia kids.

[T S O]

I rolled Cop and attempted to play a gambit where I cleared someone who I hadn't investigated. I didn't remember to update my reads accordingly and the scum IC Johhog who I was hardpushing as scum managed to get me lynched despite no counterclaim. I still can't bring myself to re-read the game.

[goodmorning]

I was a little uptight in my writing which made it look initially a little stilted. Fortunately that hid my Cop crumb really well.

In the meantime, I shall mention in passing that information is pretty much the only thing Town can use to better determine who to lynch. In my opinion, it is slightly anti-Town of all of us to just passively continue as we are. Yes, I realize that all information helps Mafia, but it helps Town, too. And the Mafia role comes with built-in information: Who is the Mafia? Who is not? Who is pretending in either direction?

is just a tiny example of the pretentiousness I was channeling.

I do believe my snark filter fell off.

I love me so much.

[Faraday]

Pretty easy scum win for me.

[Bicephalous Bob]

snip

that's still my favourite game on this site

This is my version of what happened:

1. Someone on the forum says I should totally check out mafiascum. I do.
2. I receive my role PM which says I'm town. However, it doesn't clearly state that being murdered doesn't change whether I win or not. I still think that my goal is to survive, because that's the only way I played it.
3. Yessirree says that he is trying to survive.
4. Bacde says that's silly.
5. I say I also thought we were trying to survive because the role PM doesn't clearly state we aren't
6. DoctorPepper says no way you'd think that IF YOU READ YOUR ROLE PM
7. I say I did read it is something wrong with me
8. Bacde says wait arent yessirree and bob saying the same thing
9. DoctorPepper says no THE END

This is what I assume DoctorPepper thinks what happened:

1. I read my role PM it says I'm superscum
2. I don't read the first post and I'm unable to figure out that the good guys are supposed to kill the bad guys because I suffer from severe mental retardation
3. Yessirree says that he is trying to survive
4. I say what are town what are they even doing in this game can you hold hand while I go pee pee
5. DoctorPepper says ha you would know what town are if you were town because town is explained to town in the town PM town town town
6. I start crying I lick my feet and eat my hair

[Davsto]

I was a little uptight in my writing which made it look initially a little stilted. Fortunately that hid my Cop crumb really well.

In the meantime, I shall mention in passing that information is pretty much the only thing Town can use to better determine who to lynch. In my opinion, it is slightly anti-Town of all of us to just passively continue as we are. Yes, I realize that all information helps Mafia, but it helps Town, too. And the Mafia role comes with built-in information: Who is the Mafia? Who is not? Who is pretending in either direction?

is just a tiny example of the pretentiousness I was channeling.

I do believe my snark filter fell off.

I love me so much.

You were in my first newbie game which I barely remember

How times pass

[goodmorning]

Pass they do.

[T S O]

The worst bit was how pretentious I was. I made these snotty wall theory posts and thought I was the best player ever for posting them.

[Davsto]

I was scum and spent every day flailing.

...

Okay, some things don't change.

[Papa Zito]

I forgot Reck was in my first game.

I couldn't choose one post, they were all p bad

[Jackal711]

Hard to pick just one.. they were all bad.

The worst of the bunch is probably the awkward as heck counter-bus in my first post of relevance...

Hmm I really can't get a read on anyone yet, as has been pointed out there hasn't been much activity.

VOTE: vadinci
Reasoning: Voted for me (vilfa) during replacement search

Though my later unvote was probably worse.

[ZZZX]

First mafia game... Spend half a page building a case up...

On a dead person.