Gambling on mafia

[OceanWind]

Is it within the rules to create a mafia gambling club?

The idea would be something like this: Members who want to gamble on a game will be able to access an unspoiled thread for spectators where they make bets. The odds will change as the game progresses of course. There will also be a certain number of bookies (these positions would be open to anyone who wants to be one).

Bets could be anything:

1. Outcome of the game. For instance, if I'm a bookie and let's say the game is in D2. I assess the game and provide odds. Say 2:1 on a scumwin. Then a member who is interested in the deal would say how much they want to bet on it. I and that member would then put money in a paypal account controlled by a neutral party. Once the game ends, the neutral party would then transfer the money to the winner save a 5% charge which would go to mafiascum as a donation.
2. Alignment of a player. This would obviously depend on how long the game progressed. For instance, if it is D7 and a great player is still alive, odds on them being scum go up. But if its only D2, then they would be lower.
3. Whether two players are aligned together.
4. Calling the entire scumteam (if you get all of them D1, you get high odds for it. As the game progresses, odds decrease.)

Obviously every bet would have a time limit after which the odds would change.

I realize its against the rules to bring outside influences into games. But what if this is all done in a separate spectator private thread for each game?

Would people normally be interested in gambling on mafia? People do go to casinos and gamble on cards so it seems reasonable. Except, its not a total gamble - people with better scumhunting ability will make money in the long run. If they are a college student or short on cash, this could be a good way to potentially make some if you are good at mafia.

People spend a lot of time playing mafia so why not reward good scumhunters?

[kuribo]

Given the fact this would be grossly illegal, I can't see the admins signing off on the idea. It puts them, and yourself, at great risk of prosecution by the federal government.

I really think this site has had enough members go to prison lately.

[Flubbernugget]

This would work really well with fake money for people who want to participate in a game they can't commit to.

[OceanWind]

How is it illegal?

[kuribo]

Gambling laws, tax laws, I mean there are dozens of laws against it.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1955

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal- ... mbling.htm

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/cr ... mbling.htm

[OceanWind]

That's talking about for-profit casinos. I'm not proposing a business where a business owner makes a profit. Just a platform where people can bet akin to friends betting over a football game they are watching. Your third link specifically says this:

Those who win at gambling have obviously made some money. But aside from the players, what about the businesses who run or operate the gambling game or establishment?

Some state laws specifically allow for "social gambling" while prohibiting gambling as a business. Business gambling occurs when a person or organization operates a gambling hall that collects fees or takes a portion of the amount the players bet. For example, a person who holds a "casino night" party and charges an entry fee is engaged in an illegal activity in a state that prohibits business gambling or gambling for profit. So-called “social gambling,” where the players are all equals an no one is collecting fees or making a profit apart from the outcome of the game -- such as in a home poker game -- is often not considered illegal. However, even social gaming is illegal in some states.

I don't know how the last statement applies to cross-state online gambling though. I'd assume that comes under federal regulations and it doesn't seem illegal federally. If we forget about giving any percentage to mafiascum and just bet with each other, that wouldn't be illegal.

[OceanWind]

I've often seen people make statements like this so it would be a chance to put their money on the line.

If social gambling really were illegal, wouldn't it be illegal every time a bunch of friends get together and play poker with actual money?

[Madonna]

That's talking about for-profit casinos. I'm not proposing a business where a business owner makes a profit. Just a platform where people can bet akin to friends betting over a football game they are watching. Your third link specifically says this:

Those who win at gambling have obviously made some money. But aside from the players, what about the businesses who run or operate the gambling game or establishment?

Some state laws specifically allow for "social gambling" while prohibiting gambling as a business.

Business gambling occurs when a person or organization operates a gambling hall that collects fees or takes a portion of the amount the players bet. For example, a person who holds a "casino night" party and charges an entry fee is engaged in an illegal activity in a state that prohibits business gambling or gambling for profit.

So-called “social gambling,” where the players are all equals an no one is collecting fees or making a profit apart from the outcome of the game -- such as in a home poker game -- is often not considered illegal. However, even social gaming is illegal in some states.

I don't know how the last statement applies to cross-state online gambling though. I'd assume that comes under federal regulations and it doesn't seem illegal federally. If we forget about giving any percentage to mafiascum and just bet with each other, that wouldn't be illegal.

1. Outcome of the game. For instance, if I'm a bookie and let's say the game is in D2. I assess the game and provide odds. Say 2:1 on a scumwin. Then a member who is interested in the deal would say how much they want to bet on it. I and that member would then put money in a paypal account controlled by a neutral party. Once the game ends, the neutral party would then transfer the money to the winner

save a 5% charge which would go to mafiascum as a donation.

Looks like an issue already.

I have a feeling the odds are better that you are more likely to get a gambling site to take up following Mafia than get a Mafia-playing site take up online gambling. Different infrastructures entirely and developing one to work here, I imagine, would be a nightmare and a half for something that would be niche.

[zMuffinMan]

this seems fucking stupid

i would literally just cheat to prove the point

that said, you literally wouldnt even have to cheat to win; just look for obvious crumbs and bet money on their alignment

even bets on the outcome of a game are meh (besides which, how do you even do that without the full setup? bet on a scum win and it turns out to be multiball?)

[ZZZX]

I'd say a fake-money with pre-agreed on setups would be not so bad.

[PrivateI]

NO DISCUSSING ONGOING GAMES.

[Persivul]

People already get pissed at each other over these games. Adding money would lead to lots of charges (some probably true) of people throwing games so others could profit. This is a really bad idea.

[Flubbernugget]

Nobody is going to care if we can make actual-money gambling a legal thing here because making it legal would still be a huge pain in the ass

[kuribo]

Do what you want just don't come to me asking for commissary

[Rob14]

Gambling is an outside influence and explicitly against site rules. It adds the question of game-throwing so friends can profit, which is not desirable. It's also illegal in many jurisdictions.

For instance, New York general obligations law:

Sec. 5-401.
Illegal wagers, bets and stakes. All wagers, bets or stakes, made to depend upon any race, or upon any gaming by lot or chance, or upon any lot, chance, casualty, or unknown or contingent event whatever, shall be unlawful.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I realize its against the rules to bring outside influences into games. But what if this is all done in a separate spectator private thread for each game?

People already make predictions in spectator threads. If the game mod is cool with it, having some kind of central representation of the accuracy of those predictions shouldn't create any big issues. but yeah mock bets

[SleepyKrew]

This sounds promising; I'm willing to invest heavily. I will need an advance fee of $500 which I will repay tenfold once all the paperwork is done.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Introducing gambling would truly lead to a disaster, even if it were legal.

It would also attract a certain kind of people to this site that don't care about the game but just want to gamble. I think that would have a very negative impact on the atmosphere on this site.

[Kmd4390]

Given the fact this would be grossly illegal, I can't see the admins signing off on the idea. It puts them, and yourself, at great risk of prosecution by the federal government.

I really think this site has had enough members go to prison lately.

Why do I only know of one?

Do what you want just don't come to me asking for commissary

This made me laugh.

[kuribo]

Why do I only know of one?

Because one is more than plenty I'd say

[Kmd4390]

Fair enough

[itlepip]

I think having a point system without dealing with real cash would be interesting, real money is immensely stupid.

[kuribo]

I've been working on a point system that would apply to games I mod where the best performer of the winning team would be named Champion

[Zachrulez]

This thread is exhibit A when you get caught gambling by the government!

[itlepip]

Dude your credit card stuff is exhibit A, and exhibit is testimoney from everyone else you gambled with. This thread is not evidence in the slightest.