Hydra free zones.

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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 5:12 am

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 99, callforjudgement wrote:Another potential issue with hydras is that they slow the queue, meaning that moderators need longer to take their turn. Instead of everyone trying to cram into the same top-quality game, wouldn't it be great if we had a larger supply of games of that quality?
I think that the elimination of hydrae slowed down the normal queues a lot. <--------- those are your hydra free zones.

I can't quite figure out why any1 wld want to spread that in order to make it a policy.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 5:48 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Are you saying that the elimination of hydras is causing a player shortage in Normals, or a mod shortage in Normals? It's not clear reading your comment. (Or are you saying that both have slowed down, so that the games are taking longer to fill?)
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 6:52 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Looks like it's short on mods. I may mod again someday, but I doubt I will ever run a game in the normal queue again, even if my game would fit normal guidelines. (or come close.)

Just don't want to deal with all the things you need to have in order to get a game cleared for the normal queues.

The said I'm totally fine with the hydra ban in normals.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 11:16 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

I think the issue with the normal queue is we have made the requirements for running a normal game so stringent and constraining that almost no mods want to run them after they get their mod rights. I think that could be a whole thread in and of itself but I think the normal requirements as currently written are very very stifling for mods. Right now that queue basically serves as a newbie mod queue, which isn't particularly exciting to players either in addition to the rules being so stifling that mods can't really make games that are that interesting there.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 3:09 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I think there's plenty of room for creativity in Normal setup design as it is (even though probably many Normal players are looking for uncreative setups; that's often my main motivation when I play there).

I feel that this setup that I ran was quite a way away from what people would typically expect in a Normal, for example (despite it being an explicitly Normal setup). In retrospect, it was possibly a little too weird to run.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 4:53 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

I think that the vast majority of the player base does not really like playing normals as they are currently conceived though.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 5:05 pm

Post by kuribo »

Normals and themes have player bases that can, at times, be really distinct.


Like, I'm pretty sure there are very good players I've never heard of just because I don't play normals and they dont play themes.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 5:12 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Being relegated to normals because of hydras I will go ahead and disagree with your assertion that there are good players there.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 5:51 pm

Post by hiplop »

lots of themes dont have hydras you know
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 6:19 pm

Post by kuribo »

In post 108, hiplop wrote:lots of themes dont have hydras you know
there was literally one in signups a few hours ago
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed May 18, 2016 6:30 pm

Post by hiplop »

In post 109, kuribo wrote:
In post 108, hiplop wrote:lots of themes dont have hydras you know
there was literally one in signups a few hours ago
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:32 am

Post by GreyICE »

In post 103, Thestatusquo wrote:I think the issue with the normal queue is we have made the requirements for running a normal game so stringent and constraining that almost no mods want to run them after they get their mod rights. I think that could be a whole thread in and of itself but I think the normal requirements as currently written are very very stifling for mods. Right now that queue basically serves as a newbie mod queue, which isn't particularly exciting to players either in addition to the rules being so stifling that mods can't really make games that are that interesting there.
To be honest, as someone who likes the concepts of normal games, the true issue here is a bit of a software one. TLDR: Vote counts suck.

If there was a software overlay (like the awesome chat) that posted the current vote totals when you viewed a game thread, then moding a mini normal would be a great experience. Man, I dunno, I'm hardly some code guru, but even if you had to use Vote tags, even if you had to use full and exact name (or have the moderators add nicknames manually), anything has got to beat the goddamn VC procedure.

Like how long does it take to design a good normal and review it? An hour, hour and a half? Another hour for opening post, then end of day stuff? It's being shackled to the thread constantly skimming for votes that makes the entire thing insanity inducing. Nevermind when someone buries their vote in the middle of a wall of text and uses bold tags everywhere, then complains that you missed it. Or just types 'unvote' in a random sentence and expects it to be caught.

Now I know this is saying "Volunteer 80 hours of free coding time to MafiaScum then expect everyone to chew your ass when it inevitably bugs out" but Jesus Christ I'd run 5 mini normals at once if I didn't have to VC them.

(the issue that in my six years here gameplay quality in the Normal Queue has degraded from 'decent, occasionally exceptional, usually quite fine' to 'disproof of the concept of a loving god' is separate)
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:39 am

Post by Ircher »

Reviews take like 2 weeks whereas everything else takes like 2 hours...... For normals....

Also, VCs aren't hard. They take me maybe 4 minutes on mobile, tops?
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:41 am

Post by Plotinus »

@GreyIce: Thesp made an automatic vote counter a while back. It does exactly what you want.: http://www.robandkriskris.com/votecounter/
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:43 am

Post by GreyICE »

Sweet! That's goddamn awesome!
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:44 am

Post by Ircher »

In post 112, Ircher wrote:Reviews take like 2 weeks whereas everything else takes like 2 hours...... For normals....

Also, VCs aren't hard. They take me maybe 4 minutes on mobile, tops?
Oh, and thats when I started linking to the posts.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:46 am

Post by Plotinus »

You can add nicknames to help it figure things out too, like "GreyICE replaced GI; Grey" in the living players area tag will let it catch votes for all three of those, and it tries to handle spelling errors too. If someone typed "GrayICE" it would still find it.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 11:51 am

Post by GreyICE »

That is awesome, and I'd be quite willing to be the hardass who says 'if the VC don't catch it it don't count' in the rules. I mean there's an upper limit, y'know? Follow the Rules! (1 vote = 1 attack)

Really cool that that's there.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 1:11 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

This is cool, and should perhaps be advertised better but I don't see how vote counts would be a reason that so many fewer people want to mod normals compared to themes.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 1:13 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I've been using my own counting script for the purpose, but it's broken at the moment. (See any game I've modded which has links to the posts containing votes in the vote count; I sure wouldn't be doing that manually.) I'm not sure if and when I'll get the time and energy to fix it, though.

One of its advantages is that it lets the mod make the final decision on whether any given post contains a vote, and alerts the mod to posts that look like votes but it couldn't figure out who they were voting for.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 1:21 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 119, callforjudgement wrote:I've been using my own counting script for the purpose, but it's broken at the moment. (See any game I've modded which has links to the posts containing votes in the vote count; I sure wouldn't be doing that manually.) I'm not sure if and when I'll get the time and energy to fix it, though.

One of its advantages is that it lets the mod make the final decision on whether any given post contains a vote, and alerts the mod to posts that look like votes but it couldn't figure out who they were voting for.
Linking the post is easy, as long as you're on top of modding the game. In a large, it could take awhile, but for a mini, its easy.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 2:21 pm

Post by GreyICE »

In post 118, Thestatusquo wrote:This is cool, and should perhaps be advertised better but I don't see how vote counts would be a reason that so many fewer people want to mod normals compared to themes.
Well hell, I'll mod one now. Doesn't solve the base problem, but will help.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 2:25 pm

Post by Ircher »

Whats the base problem again? And whats this gotta do with hydra-free zones?
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu May 19, 2016 3:10 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

The automatic vote counter should be stickied as a global post I think.

I still see people not aware of it even though it's been around for some time.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:11 pm

Post by zoraster »

So fairly shortly after TSQ posted this, I had the listmods start asking each mod whether their game would allow hydras or not. It's a pretty subtle change, but I think it's paid off. I haven't done any in depth statistical look at it as that'd take quite a while, but anecdotally it seems we as a community are offering more hydra free games as well as hydra limited games. We've managed to do this without instituting artificial limits on mod or player decisions.

Have people felt like they've had options for both hydra free and hydra games over the past 3 months or so?
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