Questioning: What should be the best approach regarding this
- Ranmaru
-
Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
- Ranmaru
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7088
- Joined: March 7, 2011
Questioning: What should be the best approach regarding this
Ok. So, generally, I am the type to ask plenty of questions. Some people find it odd, it's how I do. Some people have (fairly) stated that my questions can sometimes be aimless, or fluffy. I generally want to ask questions to: A) Discover Motive, B) Get the player to committ to an answer or C) Discuss reads with them. That's it, I think. Now, I want to ask everyone what they think is the best approach or 'blueprint' in asking questions to find motive, to understand a player, to discern alignment. That way I can cut the fat of my approach and not clutter up a thread. I just am an inquisitive person, I always ask questions as a person in my whole life. I've been given a two question limit in 6th grade from my teacher! Just for a little background.
Anyway, please discuss away the blueprint or best approach to questioning, and discuss how you'd question, and the positives/negatives to questioning. You can discuss why you do it, or why you don't. If you don't, please state what you *do* do instead, as I am interested in doing other things.- zMuffinMan
-
zMuffinMan Survivor
- zMuffinMan
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 20915
- Joined: March 10, 2011
before asking a question: "is any answer someone gives to the question i'm askingreallygoing to tell me something about their alignment now or potentially in the future?" and/or "what answers am expecting to this and will these really move the game forward in some meaningful way?"spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh- Equinox
-
Equinox he/theyShot Count
- Equinox
he/they- Shot Count
- Shot Count
- Posts: 10105
- Joined: April 12, 2010
- Pronoun: he/they
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Accountant
-
Accountant Jack of All Trades
- Accountant
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6419
- Joined: May 16, 2015
- Location: Wonderland
Ask questions that:
1) Are Armor Piercing Questions
2) Would make a mafia member panic if asked
3) Allow players to incriminate themselves
4) You already know the answer to
5) Places a player in the spotlightThere's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- kuribo
-
kuribo he/himFire and Brimstone
- kuribo
he/him- Fire and Brimstone
- Fire and Brimstone
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: August 21, 2007
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: the beach, probably
- Contact:
Follow up on your questions, don't just ask them and move on.
Show the town that you're asking for a good reason.Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
Also of note: try to ask questions that clarify something that doesn't add up from the point of view of your own thought process. Not only will it help you figure out if and where you've gone wrong, it'll also help other people realise you're town. (I think kuribo touched on this.)
I agree with Accountant that asking a question you already know the answer to can be a good idea, but don't overdo it; it loses its effectiveness if people see it coming.
Finally, if you're doing a reaction test, you need to be aware in advance of what reactions you'd expect from town and from scum, and that they're different. Otherwise it just looks like you're covering up a mistake.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- kuribo
-
kuribo he/himFire and Brimstone
- kuribo
he/him- Fire and Brimstone
- Fire and Brimstone
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: August 21, 2007
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: the beach, probably
- Contact:
Also, reaction testing is stupid unless you know what you're doing. Otherwise, you're going to look like scum trying to explain shitty behavior with "lol reaction test."
How do you know if you know what you're doing though?
The answer is: if you're considering a reaction test, you already don't know what you're doing.Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- kuribo
-
kuribo he/himFire and Brimstone
- kuribo
he/him- Fire and Brimstone
- Fire and Brimstone
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: August 21, 2007
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: the beach, probably
- Contact:
Even if you think you know in advance the reaction you're looking for, chances are you're wrong. Scum and town both respond in atypical ways based on personality.
For example, reaction testing a player who then gets emotional and calls you names... You then say lolol over reacting scum. But if that player is me, for example, you're just dragging the game though 70 pages of arguing.Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- Ranmaru
-
Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
- Ranmaru
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7088
- Joined: March 7, 2011
- Accountant
-
Accountant Jack of All Trades
- Accountant
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6419
- Joined: May 16, 2015
- Location: Wonderland
The game that we call mafia would be vastly improved if nobody reaction tested, ever.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
siriouslyIn post 10, callforjudgement wrote:The only time I've seen people pull off a reaction test correctly was when they were an unrevealed Innocent Child.
It didn't actually really help, but it was one of the few occasions on which it didn't hurt either.
you logical guys are so obsessed with calling whatever you can't understand , hurtful.
There is no hurt in asking questions. even if your question is shit and the answer is already revealed , the way people react to your question , the way people back each other and the way they will panic or get frustrated when you start cornering them with tones of questions are all critically - correct - only true way for scum hunting.
all your others logical scum tells or scum slips are just pure shit and NAI as they can be from town or mafia. they can be used for pushing the above and giving a correct read though.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
There is a hurt in reaction testing as town.
It makes it harder for people to read you, which increases the chance that you'll be mislynched, and at the least makes it hard for you to push your reads.
It also makes it easier for scum to hide, because if reaction testing is commonplace as town, scum can do it themselves to make it harder to read.
Asking questions is not a reaction test, and it's something I agree with a lot. (In fact, it's my most commonly used tool for scumhunting.)scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- kuribo
-
kuribo he/himFire and Brimstone
- kuribo
he/him- Fire and Brimstone
- Fire and Brimstone
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: August 21, 2007
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: the beach, probably
- Contact:
The problem isn't that we don't understand it
The problem is we understand it waaaaaay too well after watching it go wrong time and time and time againJoin me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- kuribo
-
kuribo he/himFire and Brimstone
- kuribo
he/him- Fire and Brimstone
- Fire and Brimstone
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: August 21, 2007
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: the beach, probably
- Contact:
As I say, reaction tests begin with an assumption: "town wouldn't do this," or "only scum would do this." But that's your opinion of what other people would or wouldn't do. Every player does things differently. How you react to a "test" as town, I'd react differently. So then you push AHA HE MUST BE SCUM LOOK AT THIS REACTION. But then you're wrong because you've made an incorrect assumption of how town would react--- or how I would react as town. So either you mislynch me (not likely) or I push back pointing out how easily scum can hide behind "reaction tests" to get away with scummy behavior. And you get lynched. And then you flip town and rage in the dead PT how I must be scum and how am I getting away with that shit... And then I flip town too and we call each other shitty players: me for reacting in a way you didn't expect, and you for basing your reads on a dumbass reaction test.
This sort of thing happens all the time. This is why reaction tests are fucking stupid.Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.
Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew- zMuffinMan
-
zMuffinMan Survivor
- zMuffinMan
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 20915
- Joined: March 10, 2011
to be fair, though, you'd be correct to call someone a shitty player for basing their reads on a dumbass reaction testspiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh- callforjudgement
-
callforjudgement Microprocessor
- callforjudgement
- Microprocessor
- Microprocessor
- Posts: 3972
- Joined: September 1, 2011
I mean, the closest I get to a reaction test is in throwing out a question to the game at large that I think scum are more likely to answer than town.
The main difference between this and a typical reaction test is that I rarely use it to push someone immediately, more treating it as weak evidence that can go into forming a case later in the game. It acts as a starting point when I don't have any strong reads yet.
There's also the case of asking someone a question that you don't think they'll be able to answer as scum, but that isn't really a reaction test at that point. It's more of a self-demonstrating method of pushing someone, which has the advantage that if they're actually town they may be able to talk you out of it.
That said, most of the questions I ask aren't reaction tests because I'm not envisaging anything particular in mind for them, and rather asking for guidance and looking for somewhere to start thinking. The vast majority of my questions aren't trick questions, they're just giving people an opportunity to expose their thought process. And on the rare occasions that the answer turns out to be mindbogglingly scummy, that's on the person who answers, not the person who asked the question, and other players will pick up on it too.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I've never got misslynched.In post 12, callforjudgement wrote:There is a hurt in reaction testing as town.
It makes it harder for people to read you, which increases the chance that you'll be mislynched, and at the least makes it hard for you to push your reads.
It also makes it easier for scum to hide, because if reaction testing is commonplace as town, scum can do it themselves to make it harder to read.
Asking questions is not a reaction test, and it's something I agree with a lot. (In fact, it's my most commonly used tool for scumhunting.)
just once in a lylo by a lurker.
but yeah I can't push my reads / although their so accurate.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
O.OIn post 13, kuribo wrote:The problem isn't that we don't understand it
The problem is we understand it waaaaaay too well after watching it go wrong time and time and time again
why mines are so much accurate then?
lucky I guess?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
thats not the way I do itIn post 14, kuribo wrote:As I say, reaction tests begin with an assumption: "town wouldn't do this," or "only scum would do this." But that's your opinion of what other people would or wouldn't do. Every player does things differently. How you react to a "test" as town, I'd react differently. So then you push AHA HE MUST BE SCUM LOOK AT THIS REACTION. But then you're wrong because you've made an incorrect assumption of how town would react--- or how I would react as town. So either you mislynch me (not likely) or I push back pointing out how easily scum can hide behind "reaction tests" to get away with scummy behavior. And you get lynched. And then you flip town and rage in the dead PT how I must be scum and how am I getting away with that shit... And then I flip town too and we call each other shitty players: me for reacting in a way you didn't expect, and you for basing your reads on a dumbass reaction test.
This sort of thing happens all the time. This is why reaction tests are fucking stupid.
but yeah assuming stuff is the first step. you assume stuff , will force them to get out of their shells and forget what they were hiding , then you see if their lying and faking that rection or their genuine.
I'm satisfied with the results of my approach and I will continue to do so! and their not fucking stupid. if you can't use something or you saw people who can't use it don't call the whole idea stupid!False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
to be fair you are a shitty player for refusing the idea becuase you don't know anything about it!In post 15, zMuffinMan wrote:to be fair, though, you'd be correct to call someone a shitty player for basing their reads on a dumbass reaction test
I agree I am a shitty player!
But I'm a correct shitty player normally. and its written all over my meta <3False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
the typical reaction test your saying is hard tunneling which is stupid. what I was talking about was different . I'm not sure why I'm bothering you with explaining my methods.In post 16, callforjudgement wrote:I mean, the closest I get to a reaction test is in throwing out a question to the game at large that I think scum are more likely to answer than town.
The main difference between this and a typical reaction test is that I rarely use it to push someone immediately, more treating it as weak evidence that can go into forming a case later in the game. It acts as a starting point when I don't have any strong reads yet.
There's also the case of asking someone a question that you don't think they'll be able to answer as scum, but that isn't really a reaction test at that point. It's more of a self-demonstrating method of pushing someone, which has the advantage that if they're actually town they may be able to talk you out of it.
That said, most of the questions I ask aren't reaction tests because I'm not envisaging anything particular in mind for them, and rather asking for guidance and looking for somewhere to start thinking. The vast majority of my questions aren't trick questions, they're just giving people an opportunity to expose their thought process. And on the rare occasions that the answer turns out to be mindbogglingly scummy, that's on the person who answers, not the person who asked the question, and other players will pick up on it too.
lets live our lives shall we?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
oh and @kuribo : I never ended up like that with someone. oh well once I did , it was a 7 player lylo and I called two teams . I was correct about them being a team , I just got them vise versa! :/In post 12, callforjudgement wrote:There is a hurt in reaction testing as town.
It makes it harder for people to read you, which increases the chance that you'll be mislynched, and at the least makes it hard for you to push your reads.
It also makes it easier for scum to hide, because if reaction testing is commonplace as town, scum can do it themselves to make it harder to read.
Asking questions is not a reaction test, and it's something I agree with a lot. (In fact, it's my most commonly used tool for scumhunting.)False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- zMuffinMan
-
zMuffinMan Survivor
- zMuffinMan
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 20915
- Joined: March 10, 2011
i think the amount of time someone is correct about what a "reaction test" means is roughly the amount of time you might expect someone to be right by random chancespiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
siriouslyIn post 23, zMuffinMan wrote:i think the amount of time someone is correct about what a "reaction test" means is roughly the amount of time you might expect someone to be right by random chance
Are you requesting for a meta dive? becuase I have like 35 games here in my 40 town games.
and thats not random chance. I'm the unluckiest person in the universe. thats pure analyzing.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie - Frozen Angel
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- zMuffinMan
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- callforjudgement
- zMuffinMan
- kuribo
- kuribo
- callforjudgement
- Frozen Angel
- callforjudgement
- Accountant
- Ranmaru
- kuribo
- kuribo
- callforjudgement
- kuribo
- Accountant
- Equinox
- zMuffinMan
- Ranmaru