Questioning: What should be the best approach regarding this

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Questioning: What should be the best approach regarding this

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:28 am

Post by Ranmaru »

Ok. So, generally, I am the type to ask plenty of questions. Some people find it odd, it's how I do. Some people have (fairly) stated that my questions can sometimes be aimless, or fluffy. I generally want to ask questions to: A) Discover Motive, B) Get the player to committ to an answer or C) Discuss reads with them. That's it, I think. Now, I want to ask everyone what they think is the best approach or 'blueprint' in asking questions to find motive, to understand a player, to discern alignment. That way I can cut the fat of my approach and not clutter up a thread. I just am an inquisitive person, I always ask questions as a person in my whole life. I've been given a two question limit in 6th grade from my teacher! Just for a little background.

Anyway, please discuss away the blueprint or best approach to questioning, and discuss how you'd question, and the positives/negatives to questioning. You can discuss why you do it, or why you don't. If you don't, please state what you *do* do instead, as I am interested in doing other things.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:04 am

Post by zMuffinMan »

before asking a question: "is any answer someone gives to the question i'm asking
really
going to tell me something about their alignment now or potentially in the future?" and/or "what answers am expecting to this and will these really move the game forward in some meaningful way?"
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:42 pm

Post by Equinox »

Additional consideration: "Would it be more informative to ask this question now or to wait and see if the player will provide the answer without being prompted?"
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:36 pm

Post by Accountant »

Ask questions that:

1) Are Armor Piercing Questions
2) Would make a mafia member panic if asked
3) Allow players to incriminate themselves
4) You already know the answer to
5) Places a player in the spotlight
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:16 am

Post by kuribo »

Follow up on your questions, don't just ask them and move on.

Show the town that you're asking for a good reason.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:17 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Also of note: try to ask questions that clarify something that doesn't add up from the point of view of your own thought process. Not only will it help you figure out if and where you've gone wrong, it'll also help other people realise you're town. (I think kuribo touched on this.)

I agree with Accountant that asking a question you already know the answer to can be a good idea, but don't overdo it; it loses its effectiveness if people see it coming.

Finally, if you're doing a reaction test, you need to be aware in advance of what reactions you'd expect from town and from scum, and that they're different. Otherwise it just looks like you're covering up a mistake.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:52 am

Post by kuribo »

Also, reaction testing is stupid unless you know what you're doing. Otherwise, you're going to look like scum trying to explain shitty behavior with "lol reaction test."

How do you know if you know what you're doing though?

The answer is: if you're considering a reaction test, you already don't know what you're doing.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:55 am

Post by kuribo »

Even if you think you know in advance the reaction you're looking for, chances are you're wrong. Scum and town both respond in atypical ways based on personality.

For example, reaction testing a player who then gets emotional and calls you names... You then say lolol over reacting scum. But if that player is me, for example, you're just dragging the game though 70 pages of arguing.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:40 pm

Post by Ranmaru »

Hmm ok, thank you for the points guys. I will keep these all in mind. Will deff try to follow up, ask the types of questions you guys posed, and not reaction test.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:06 am

Post by Accountant »

The game that we call mafia would be vastly improved if nobody reaction tested, ever.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:15 am

Post by callforjudgement »

The only time I've seen people pull off a reaction test correctly was when they were an unrevealed Innocent Child.

It didn't actually really help, but it was one of the few occasions on which it didn't hurt either.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:05 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 10, callforjudgement wrote:The only time I've seen people pull off a reaction test correctly was when they were an unrevealed Innocent Child.

It didn't actually really help, but it was one of the few occasions on which it didn't hurt either.
siriously

you logical guys are so obsessed with calling whatever you can't understand , hurtful.

There is no hurt in asking questions. even if your question is shit and the answer is already revealed , the way people react to your question , the way people back each other and the way they will panic or get frustrated when you start cornering them with tones of questions are all critically - correct - only true way for scum hunting.

all your others logical scum tells or scum slips are just pure shit and NAI as they can be from town or mafia. they can be used for pushing the above and giving a correct read though.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:54 am

Post by callforjudgement »

There is a hurt in reaction testing as town.

It makes it harder for people to read you, which increases the chance that you'll be mislynched, and at the least makes it hard for you to push your reads.
It also makes it easier for scum to hide, because if reaction testing is commonplace as town, scum can do it themselves to make it harder to read.

Asking questions is not a reaction test, and it's something I agree with a lot. (In fact, it's my most commonly used tool for scumhunting.)
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:01 am

Post by kuribo »

The problem isn't that we don't understand it


The problem is we understand it waaaaaay too well after watching it go wrong time and time and time again
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:07 am

Post by kuribo »

As I say, reaction tests begin with an assumption: "town wouldn't do this," or "only scum would do this." But that's your opinion of what other people would or wouldn't do. Every player does things differently. How you react to a "test" as town, I'd react differently. So then you push AHA HE MUST BE SCUM LOOK AT THIS REACTION. But then you're wrong because you've made an incorrect assumption of how town would react--- or how I would react as town. So either you mislynch me (not likely) or I push back pointing out how easily scum can hide behind "reaction tests" to get away with scummy behavior. And you get lynched. And then you flip town and rage in the dead PT how I must be scum and how am I getting away with that shit... And then I flip town too and we call each other shitty players: me for reacting in a way you didn't expect, and you for basing your reads on a dumbass reaction test.

This sort of thing happens all the time. This is why reaction tests are fucking stupid.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:17 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

to be fair, though, you'd be correct to call someone a shitty player for basing their reads on a dumbass reaction test
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:33 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I mean, the closest I get to a reaction test is in throwing out a question to the game at large that I think scum are more likely to answer than town.

The main difference between this and a typical reaction test is that I rarely use it to push someone immediately, more treating it as weak evidence that can go into forming a case later in the game. It acts as a starting point when I don't have any strong reads yet.

There's also the case of asking someone a question that you don't think they'll be able to answer as scum, but that isn't really a reaction test at that point. It's more of a self-demonstrating method of pushing someone, which has the advantage that if they're actually town they may be able to talk you out of it.

That said, most of the questions I ask aren't reaction tests because I'm not envisaging anything particular in mind for them, and rather asking for guidance and looking for somewhere to start thinking. The vast majority of my questions aren't trick questions, they're just giving people an opportunity to expose their thought process. And on the rare occasions that the answer turns out to be mindbogglingly scummy, that's on the person who answers, not the person who asked the question, and other players will pick up on it too.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:11 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 12, callforjudgement wrote:There is a hurt in reaction testing as town.

It makes it harder for people to read you, which increases the chance that you'll be mislynched, and at the least makes it hard for you to push your reads.
It also makes it easier for scum to hide, because if reaction testing is commonplace as town, scum can do it themselves to make it harder to read.

Asking questions is not a reaction test, and it's something I agree with a lot. (In fact, it's my most commonly used tool for scumhunting.)
I've never got misslynched.

just once in a lylo by a lurker.

but yeah I can't push my reads / although their so accurate.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:12 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 13, kuribo wrote:The problem isn't that we don't understand it


The problem is we understand it waaaaaay too well after watching it go wrong time and time and time again
O.O

why mines are so much accurate then?

lucky I guess?
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:15 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 14, kuribo wrote:As I say, reaction tests begin with an assumption: "town wouldn't do this," or "only scum would do this." But that's your opinion of what other people would or wouldn't do. Every player does things differently. How you react to a "test" as town, I'd react differently. So then you push AHA HE MUST BE SCUM LOOK AT THIS REACTION. But then you're wrong because you've made an incorrect assumption of how town would react--- or how I would react as town. So either you mislynch me (not likely) or I push back pointing out how easily scum can hide behind "reaction tests" to get away with scummy behavior. And you get lynched. And then you flip town and rage in the dead PT how I must be scum and how am I getting away with that shit... And then I flip town too and we call each other shitty players: me for reacting in a way you didn't expect, and you for basing your reads on a dumbass reaction test.

This sort of thing happens all the time. This is why reaction tests are fucking stupid.
thats not the way I do it

but yeah assuming stuff is the first step. you assume stuff , will force them to get out of their shells and forget what they were hiding , then you see if their lying and faking that rection or their genuine.

I'm satisfied with the results of my approach and I will continue to do so! and their not fucking stupid. if you can't use something or you saw people who can't use it don't call the whole idea stupid!
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:16 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 15, zMuffinMan wrote:to be fair, though, you'd be correct to call someone a shitty player for basing their reads on a dumbass reaction test
to be fair you are a shitty player for refusing the idea becuase you don't know anything about it!

I agree I am a shitty player!

But I'm a correct shitty player normally. and its written all over my meta <3
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:18 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 16, callforjudgement wrote:I mean, the closest I get to a reaction test is in throwing out a question to the game at large that I think scum are more likely to answer than town.

The main difference between this and a typical reaction test is that I rarely use it to push someone immediately, more treating it as weak evidence that can go into forming a case later in the game. It acts as a starting point when I don't have any strong reads yet.

There's also the case of asking someone a question that you don't think they'll be able to answer as scum, but that isn't really a reaction test at that point. It's more of a self-demonstrating method of pushing someone, which has the advantage that if they're actually town they may be able to talk you out of it.

That said, most of the questions I ask aren't reaction tests because I'm not envisaging anything particular in mind for them, and rather asking for guidance and looking for somewhere to start thinking. The vast majority of my questions aren't trick questions, they're just giving people an opportunity to expose their thought process. And on the rare occasions that the answer turns out to be mindbogglingly scummy, that's on the person who answers, not the person who asked the question, and other players will pick up on it too.
the typical reaction test your saying is hard tunneling which is stupid. what I was talking about was different . I'm not sure why I'm bothering you with explaining my methods.

lets live our lives shall we?
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:24 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 12, callforjudgement wrote:There is a hurt in reaction testing as town.

It makes it harder for people to read you, which increases the chance that you'll be mislynched, and at the least makes it hard for you to push your reads.
It also makes it easier for scum to hide, because if reaction testing is commonplace as town, scum can do it themselves to make it harder to read.

Asking questions is not a reaction test, and it's something I agree with a lot. (In fact, it's my most commonly used tool for scumhunting.)
oh and @kuribo : I never ended up like that with someone. oh well once I did , it was a 7 player lylo and I called two teams . I was correct about them being a team , I just got them vise versa! :/
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:31 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

i think the amount of time someone is correct about what a "reaction test" means is roughly the amount of time you might expect someone to be right by random chance
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:34 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 23, zMuffinMan wrote:i think the amount of time someone is correct about what a "reaction test" means is roughly the amount of time you might expect someone to be right by random chance
siriously

Are you requesting for a meta dive? becuase I have like 35 games here in my 40 town games.

and thats not random chance. I'm the unluckiest person in the universe. thats pure analyzing.
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