Town voting themselves

[Persivul]

Lately I've seen increased instances of town being on their own lynch wagon. This is screwing up games and destroying my desire to play (at least as town alignment - it's amusing as scum, but you're town more often).

The default position should be that a player who votes himself as town is playing against wincon.

If a townie is on his own lynch wagon, he should be changed to neutral survivor so that he can't win. Repeated offenses should also result in a ban from joining games for some time.

[The_Jester]

Eh I don't know. By that logic, wouldn't mafia voting partners be considered as playing against wincon too?

[Korts]

Generally I agree that town should not vote for the only player they know to be town, but a blanket ban on behavior like this is a very narrow-minded approach. I think I have contributed to my own lynch as town in the past where it was better than to let the day end in a No Lynch, for instance.

[Persivul]

Eh I don't know. By that logic, wouldn't mafia voting partners be considered as playing against wincon too?

No. They're two completely different things.

[Persivul]

Generally I agree that town should not vote for the only player they know to be town, but a blanket ban on behavior like this is a very narrow-minded approach. I think I have contributed to my own lynch as town in the past where it was better than to let the day end in a No Lynch, for instance.

In that rare situation, you could PM mod and explain your reasoning prior to voting.

[Korts]

Meh.

You mod your games however you want. But I think it's better to let the town manage situations like this.

[The_Jester]

Yup I don't think you should force meta on players that hard. Too many rules make for less interesting games. Of course if someone self-hammers 3 games in a row, something should be done about it but I don't think there are such extreme cases too often.

[Persivul]

Too many rules make for less interesting games.

Are you saying that the rule requiring playing to wincon shouldn't apply, or contesting that town voting for themselves is, except in rare circumstances, playing against wincon?

[The_Jester]

The latter.

[Creature]

Why should I refrain from voting myself when deadline is hitting and I am the only one that can hammer myself?

[KuroiXHF]

You're talking about people voting town when they KNOW they are town? I've never seen this at all.

I have, however, been reported recently for guessing wrong and voting town while in lylo. But that's because the person I voted acted like scum in every way.

[Persivul]

You're talking about people voting town when they KNOW they are town? I've never seen this at all.

I'm talking about a town person being on their OWN lynch wagon. I've seen it twice recently. Neither was in the rare situation being offered above of avoiding a no lynch at the end of phase.

Can someone explain how that furthers your wincon? When I see it, it doesn't seem strategic at all, but rather emotional - the person's pissed at being wagoned and pulls the old

take my ball and go home

routine. Dead townies generally hurt town's chances of winning. The point of the game is to kill off the other side after all.

[Randomnamechange]

This also ignores games such as Varsoon's Bloodborne Mafia where there are special mechanics revolving around being on lynch wagons.

[The_Jester]

Whether it hurts town it depends totally on town's reaction. There was a situation where I've done that and I've been townread cause everybody assumed scum wouldn't do it. There were also games where it only sped up my lynch.

[Gammagooey]

Most of the time I see townies doing it, it's to try to say "hey look everyone else is morons do what I said earlier after you see my flip".

But unless there's been a LOT of detailed discussion that has completely stalled out over the course of several days, most of the time the self-vote is actually the stupidest thing in the entire game so far, so the person lynching themselves gets ignored and the game continues without them.

About 95% of the time, they would have had a better chance of actually convincing people to lynch who they wanted by sticking around and posting more about why they think someone is scum than killing themselves and hoping everyone else will go along with it afterwards. But people will still do it because they care more about proving people wrong and hurting them somehow for being wrong about them than actually winning the game.

[Persivul]

they care more about proving people wrong and hurting them somehow for being wrong about them than actually winning the game.

^This

[McMenno]

This also ignores games such as Varsoon's Bloodborne Mafia where there are special mechanics revolving around being on lynch wagons.

in marathon weekend I also played a game where hiplop was a self-wagon scum detector, so if he got lynched, town could see how many scum were on his wagon. it also had some time-based stuff in that he only was that role for the first 15 minutes. tl;dr we quicklynched him and he self-voted.

[Fenchurch]

I've never been convinced why it's necessary to allow self-votes. Seems to me like that on balance, if mods would just have a rule that self-votes don't count, it would do more good than harm.

[Ircher]

Its good for wifom, but yeah, self-voting generally achieves nothing, even when it doesn't immediately lead to a lynch.

[McMenno]

I've never been convinced why it's necessary to allow self-votes. Seems to me like that on balance, if mods would just have a rule that self-votes don't count, it would do more good than harm.

it's just a byproduct of allowing people to vote.

[Fenchurch]

it's just a byproduct of allowing people to vote.

...

Not really. You just put it in your rules: 'Self-votes won't be counted. If you vote yourself it will be treated as if you are not voting.' That is what rules are for; like how a doctor can't self-target.

[Zachrulez]

I've never been convinced why it's necessary to allow self-votes. Seems to me like that on balance, if mods would just have a rule that self-votes don't count, it would do more good than harm.

Vengeful townies, supersaints. Basically roles that deal with killing bandwagoners?

[Antihero]

it's just a byproduct of allowing people to vote.

...

Not really. You just put it in your rules: 'Self-votes won't be counted. If you vote yourself it will be treated as if you are not voting.' That is what rules are for; like how a doctor can't self-target.

edit: misread that

i still think the better solution to this is "know who does this often and don't let them in your game / play with them" than making a rule but that's just my opinion

[Nero Cain]

vote:Nero

[Mas y Menos]

vote:Nero

sorry but you have been wotm'd from all my games.