PTs Not Released - Why is this a Thing?

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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:49 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 121, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 119, Cerberus v666 wrote:Pedit: yes, what infinity said..the conversation isn't private because the people involved expect it to never be shared. It's private because the game requires a means of private communication between members of the scum team.
It simply doesn't matter.

Its a private thing - either announce your going to betray the term privacy or keep it private if the involved players ask you to. I beleive the second is better, more legit and understandable and more fair.
You didn't say you had an issue with that, you said you preferred doing things differently.

I suppose it's a personal sentiment I don't really understand.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:53 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

Its not personal sentiment

I give you a my pov and thought process

I do believe there is a different view about a principle key that I discussed in last page. as its a principle viewpoint there is no way to reach an agreement on this.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:55 am

Post by McMenno »

re: the "scum tactics" argument; this essentially gives the other scumteam members an "unfair advantage", so to speak, because
they
will have access to the pt, while others don't

re: the "it's in the private topics section, so it's private"; that's just semantics
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:56 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

But I don't understand a specific reason why you'd want the PT to not be released at all in some cases instead of saying the PT will be released, deleting specific posts, then releasing it.
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:57 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

hmm? I'm not talking about game balance or advantages. My discussion was about privacy

and I said I'm not talking about semantics. Private stuff are Private! I'm confused about the comments you all are posting now ... >.>
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:00 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 128, Infinity 324 wrote:But I don't understand a specific reason why you'd want the PT to not be released at all in some cases instead of saying the PT will be released, deleting specific posts, then releasing it.
When I said I don't want it to be released? I said will let my scum players to have that option as well. Whatever said in that pt was said in a private secure location and I will let them decide if they want it outed or not. Noone else has any right to see that topic - even if their intrested or want to make their play better.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:04 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

You might spam next 20 pages this saying the same things over and over and don't try to read what I said about my reasons at all.

or you might actually admit this has a basic principle difference in our opinions about who has a right to modify/release what; whats the meaning of privacy; what is the responsibilities of a mod and what effects force releasing might have. and as its all theory talk we both are right in our pov's.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:10 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 127, McMenno wrote:re: the "scum tactics" argument; this essentially gives the other scumteam members an "unfair advantage", so to speak, because
they
will have access to the pt, while others don't

re: the "it's in the private topics section, so it's private"; that's just semantics
Indeed. FA is right that the fundamental issue here is whether or not the scum team should EXPECT privacy, and if they do, whether or not the moderator should grant them it. I believe that they shouldn't expect privacy, and thus everything else is irrelevant. She believes that they should, and the moderator should do as they wish.

The idea of the scum chats existing as Private Topics is only relevant insofar as the name potentially creates a false expectation of privacy after the game ends.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:16 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

I really don't have anything about the name

I'm saying if That conversation is private which it should be - releasing it - EVER must be acceptable by the involved people. Either tell them and get their acceptance pregame or ask them at game end. Thats the only way it even makes sense

THIS is not arguable. This is what privacy means ^

But My point when I was discussing this was that why I think the second feels better in application as mods won't take any responsibilities for the private data and its further effects after the game.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:31 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

I understand that we have different concepts of privacy and that we will probably never agree.

I don't think you've explained your side as well as I would like you to. Explain that last sentence in the above post again. That's what I wanted to hear your side on.
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:44 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

I believe she means she prefers to get their acceptance after the game is over because it removes any responsibility for revealing what was said and the consequences of said reveal from the moderator. Basically, she prefers it because anything which results from then pt being revealed happened because the players chose to reveal the pt.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:46 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

Oh
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:47 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

I still think it's on the players if they miss something potentially offensive
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:49 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

I'm saying I personally believe asking them at end game is more applicable as

- its the current meta
- its ok, understood and well impelimented as it is
- its compltely fair (not saying the other approach is not) and is according to whats accepted generally as privacy in human societies (again not saying the other approach is not)
- In this approach players can decide if there is something that can be annoying to someone else - or is annoying them if gets publickly revealed and they can manage it themselves.
- In this approach mods has no responsibilities or whatsoever about anything that happens after they announce a "game over" which is the correct way I assume.

and again I'm going back to my first posts. People are different. You can't just say what seems ok to you is ok to them as well. Some people are sensative. They might hate their friend for designing a manipulative plan , They might get angry for simple nonsense reasons and this is just a game. so allowing players to hide whatever they think it might impact later on is not a really moronic move as you guys are trying to describe it.

The rest of players has no right to see a private topic unless the mod promise them that before game starts.

Its a game after all. Why does it matter to make sure you know every detail about someone else action.
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:49 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 135, Cerberus v666 wrote:I believe she means she prefers to get their acceptance after the game is over because it removes any responsibility for revealing what was said and the consequences of said reveal from the moderator. Basically, she prefers it because anything which results from then pt being revealed happened because the players chose to reveal the pt.
yes this
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:51 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 137, Infinity 324 wrote:I still think it's on the players if they miss something potentially offensive
Its not about offenses only. Offending is bad - no one should be allowed to offend even in a pt.

But being scum is about so much more planning and critical conflicts.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:57 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

Hmm

You might have a point
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:09 am

Post by McMenno »

I mean if you want to discuss private things then you can start a conversation with your team members outside of your scum topic
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:12 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 142, McMenno wrote:I mean if you want to discuss private things then you can start a conversation with your team members outside of your scum topic
this is not even related to my point at all

and this is not even ok if its about the other players in game. Its totally and absolutely a hardcore rule violation.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:13 am

Post by chamber »

In post 143, Frozen Angel wrote:Its totally and absolutely a hardcore rule violation.
Depends on the mod.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:17 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

To discuss the ongoing game (players in ongoing game outside an approved pt) is a rule violation unless in some special occasions.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:20 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

not approved pt - approved private way of communicating
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:23 am

Post by McMenno »

I suppose we're going in circles

just like every md thread, I guess
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:24 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

You never responded to any points I made so its not a circle.

But whatever it is , it don't feel good and constructive
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:56 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

In post 69, Frozen Angel wrote:There are things - that some people will feel sorry for after playing as scum

Like designing a manipulative plan to make someone look bad. Publickly revealing these stuff are normally ok but if that plan results a drama - or heartbreaking situations the details are better to be kept secret.

Its not about being a jerk during the game. Its about keeping your friends friend after them.
If you feel sorry, apologize, or don't go there in the first place. It's just a game, it's meant to be fun, if you get to personal and drama, it's no good, but if shit happens, be mature and deal with it, don't hide it, that is way worse, and leads to bad/worse behavior. Respect and communication.
In post 73, Frozen Angel wrote: But letting people decide what they want to share with others after the game seems a really reasonable approach.
If you're speaking it to others, you want to share it with others and have decided to do so.
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