PTs Not Released - Why is this a Thing?

[Frozen Angel]

How is hiding it way worst?

And who are you to decide what is way worst for someone else?

[Frozen Angel]

and what? you know im a real person and i have images of my self. so you deserve to see my images?

what kind of logic is that

[drealmerz7]

How is hiding it way worst?

And who are you to decide what is way worst for someone else?

Because it is not honest. It's a relationship based on deception. This is worse than one based on communication and working towards resolutions when conflict occurs. I'm not deciding what is for someone else, I'm saying what I think is healthiest for the community, and when you talk about "maintaining friendships", there are definitely ways to do that and not to do that.

This is a game, we're not maneuvering for control over the planet Dune.

[Frozen Angel]

Thats exactly my point

This is a game - why you wanna enforce a rule (to publickly reveal everything) when players can decide what to share or not themselves.

Why is that healthiest for community to enforce this? What do you mean when you say its not honest. This is the game of dishonesty, Why should someone be honest about anything during or after the game by any standards?

I'm not saying letting them decide what to do let them to "maintain freindships". I'm saying if not you as a moderator might be the result for causing a drama or unnecessary conflicts which is stupid however you look at it.

When someone asks you to not open a private topic they posted in that means they don't want others to see their posts in there obviously. Whatever is their reason Its definitely healthier for community to respect that request.

[Frozen Angel]

A player who receives a scum role must be free to do whatever action they can to manipulate and frame

Thats how this works. Now your saying he must be outed publicly after the match - and in some cases - by some standards - in some pov's get publickly shamed for that. Why is that healthy at all?

[rb]

The thing is this is a game of deception and scum often deliberately attack people in ways they know will frustrate or upset the person for the benefit of the game. Some people might take moral offense to this and so the scum players prefer not to share what has been done.

I think whatever is done as scum (apart from actual abuse) is fair game and so I don't even read scum PT's when released - I don't care what they did or said, they tried to win the game and if you're the kind of person who holds a grudge over the tactics somebody uses in a game then mafia isn't really your game.

tl;dr I agree with Frozen's approach for a few reasons:
- prevents potential drama
- makes modding less stressful
- allows scum to say and do whatever it takes to win
- the releasing of PT's is assessed based on specific circumstances

All of which I think contribute to a better community environment and better overall games.

[Zachrulez]

I mean if you want to discuss private things then you can start a conversation with your team members outside of your scum topic

this is not even related to my point at all

and this is not even ok if its about the other players in game. Its totally and absolutely a hardcore rule violation.

I actually had a newbie game where the scum did not use the provided scum quicktopic. It was a very strange situation that had never happened to me before in the entire era of quicktopics and never happened after so I wasn't actually sure how to deal with it since my ruleset didn't explicitly REQUIRE the quicktopic's use. (I tend to be pretty subjective with the rules, but punishing the scumteam over that lack of coverage in the rules would be kinda crappy.) From memory I think they missed a kill. (PMs really aren't better than topics...)

[Tere]

I am pro the GM seeing the topics people are playing in (I have played plenty of PM allowed games and IMO they are ripe for misuse).

I think the answer is a little of column A, little of column B and TBH I think MS gets it right most of the time - most of the rulesets I see are PTs are going to be released unless objections with deadline at game end. It's a decent compromise. Can then excise anything important - accidental reveal of physical data for example and mod can have a convo with PT owners about the rest and make their own judgement. I think the two I quoted last time were the only ones I have encountered (and were from the same game).

[Land of Xanth]

So...

Before I read this thread, I didn't care about my scum PT's being released.

Now, I intend to lock them all down.

Thank you folks for the insight.

[Cerberus v666]

Is that Alisale or grey talking? Either way that makes me sad.

[Katsuki]

Mafia PTs should never be released on default. Leave political correctness for the game thread.

It is important that scum can discuss strategy objectively without having to worry about hurt feelings. Also everything Myko+Zora said.

GM or modding of QTs would be stupid. There usually is already a game mod overseeing the PT.

[Accountant]

I already recklessly discuss strategy and don't worry about hurt feelings and when I release the scum PT nobody complains

Can someone link me to an instance of released scum PT causing drama

[Cerberus v666]

I already recklessly discuss strategy and don't worry about hurt feelings and when I release the scum PT nobody complains

Can someone link me to an instance of released scum PT causing drama

Serio. If the drama exists, it's not because of what's said in scum PTs, it's because of what already happened in the game.

[kuribo]

The one that gets me is the opinion that "hydra PTs should be released too"

I don't know how other people hydra, but both the main hydras I'm in (Serene2 and TPTG) have stuff relating not only to the games we've played in together, but also games we've modded and setup discussion for games we intend to mod in the future, as well as personal information that's kept between the other heads.

And like, not only that, but even if you were to say "Oh, well you have to create a new PT for your hydra for this game," it's like, DGB and I for example frequently discuss hydra things over Facebook chat. It's just easier when we're both online. So how would that even play into it?

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah me and FA talk over either skype or sitechat. posting in a thread is a terrible way to discuss reads.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, Drixx and I make a point of copying every single conversation we have about a game, no matter what the medium is, into our hydra PT.

They're all the same as far as I'm concerned, insufficient reason to keep them sealed.

[Frozen Angel]

that's an effort a mod can't enforce players to do

[kuribo]

Well, Drixx and I make a point of copying every single conversation we have about a game, no matter what the medium is, into our hydra PT


Well, Drixx and I make a point of copying every single conversation we have about a game, no matter what the medium is, into our hydra PT

yeah but then i have to edit out the asides about my romantic life or DGB's glassblowing or my crippling depression or American politics or the healthcare system or

[Cerberus v666]

Sure a mod can't make people do that, and they shouldn't. It's really not important thiugh, if you talked about stuff outside of the PT that doesn't have any relevance to whether or not the mod should release the pt.

[kuribo]

The point is that hydra PTs aren't game specific.

[Cerberus v666]

Hydra PT's aren't any more game specific than scum PT's.

Do you really think that if I don't care about people censoring themselves in scum PT's that it would matter to me if they do so in their hydra PT's?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So...

Before I read this thread, I didn't care about my scum PT's being released.

Now, I intend to lock them all down.

Thank you folks for the insight.

Thanks for letting me know you should be on my WOTC list ... I appreciate it.

[drealmerz7]

it honestly sounds to me like a majority of the people who don't like their PTs released are afraid and have shit scum-games they need to "protect" - it's game content and should be able to be viewed by all and doing so only helps everyone improve their game

if you are going to get offended over how someone talks about you in regards to the game, you shouldn't be playing mafia, it's not a game for the thin-skinned

[drealmerz7]

yeah me and FA talk over either skype or sitechat. posting in a thread is a terrible way to discuss reads.

is this even allowed?!?!?! in my view all game-content should be able to be monitored by the mod and any discussing OUTSIDE of the realm of the mod is against the rules

you could essentially, without recourse, talk about ongoing games this way too, and I question the moral integrity of many players to not discount that as an option of going on

this should be a huge no-no

[Accountant]

If people are committed to secretly discussing ongping games, insisting on a scum PT/hydra PT won't stop them.