Strategically play or tactical play?

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Do you play Tactically or Strategically?

Strategic.
8
44%
Tactically.
10
56%
 
Total votes: 18

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Strategically play or tactical play?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:59 am

Post by LicketyQuickety »

Strategic: Strategic planning emphasizes making goals analyzing the future. In Strategic planning, goals remain the same and methods change.

Tactical: Tactical planning emphasizes making goals analyzing the present. In Tactical planning, methods remain the same and goals change.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:07 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Depends on my alignment.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:43 am

Post by LicketyQuickety »

In post 1, Gamma Emerald wrote:Depends on my alignment.
3p?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:52 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

I'd say it differs depending on the role given, as well as abilities and the general situation, but I'd put down tactical for the majority of the time. The future is really fickle and hard to predict, so I like to stay in the present.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:58 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 2, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 1, Gamma Emerald wrote:Depends on my alignment.
3p?
That in particular?
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:59 am

Post by Aj The Epic »

In post 2, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 1, Gamma Emerald wrote:Depends on my alignment.
3p?
Strategy, probably. I think scum in general think more long term (and should in private) because their wincon is long term. A town can win in like 3 days by lynching scum so they've got to look at the game 'in the moment'.

For 3rd party, I don't think there's a proper way to play it. Survivor is basically as long term as can be, SK is independent to person. Like for example, as SK I'll question if I even WANT to make a kill (actually I've done this as scum...) because I don't want the conversation to towards to why the second kill exists. Instead of this long-term plotting of "who has to go because they're a threat to us winning", I'm thinking of whether it even makes sense for me to bring attention to myself. Some people like to play SK off as Vig, so I guess gambits in general are more tactical.

The end-all is scum won't take a risk that gets them exposed a day from now or so. They're in it to win and they'll make plays that fit when they can win.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:03 am

Post by LicketyQuickety »

In post 4, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 1, Gamma Emerald wrote:Depends on my alignment.
3p?
That in particular?
Well I am just assuming that you play strategically as Scum and Tactically as Town. That leaves me wondering how you play as third party.

P-Edit: Ninj'd. I will say playing on your own is a whole nother ball of wax and I find myself using tactics to set up what happens later.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:07 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Probably strategically. I've never been real 3p.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:14 am

Post by LicketyQuickety »

In post 7, Gamma Emerald wrote:Probably strategically. I've never been real 3p.
Well I've only been 3p twice and neither were what I would call standard roles by a long shot.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:56 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

I don't think I've ever seen "strategy" and "tactic" to be defined such that they are mutually exclusive
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:35 pm

Post by Aj The Epic »

Yeah I was thinking similarly initially and answered in a broad concept. I think the better 'combined' metric is risk vs reward since it still fits the criteria (a townsperson is going to be a bit riskier than scum early due to not lying and such)
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:52 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

In post 6, LicketyQuickety wrote:P-Edit: Ninj'd. I will say playing on your own is a whole nother ball of wax and I find myself using tactics to set up what happens later.
I should prolly clarify this more. I would say as Scum (and especially 3p) I tend to make many more micro actions that lead me to an end goal. I do things more with a purpose as Scum or 3p that leads to a clear direction. I am still trying to work on doing this as Town.

Aside form that I would like to give an opinion on how I see these two dichotomies.

I think there are people who have a natural bent toward one or the other. I would have to say that strategic play is prolly superior, since it takes a long term approach to solving how to win. That said, I think a player/person who has a natural bent toward tactical play can learn how to play strategically with enough experience. I think once someone has played enough and has learned the game enough, they can better adopt a more big picture view of the game and that this has many benefits to it such as surviving longer in games. IDK that someones reads will necessarily be better playing strategically rather than tactically because they both prolly used different methods to read people. I also think that playing strategically is a much better way to get your targets lynched rather that playing tactically and if you'll excuse this terminology winging it.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:18 pm

Post by mastina »

The answer is both, full time.
The bigger picture is important as town, but I do not rely on it.
The details are important as town, but I do not rely on them.

The bigger picture is essential as scum, but it's useless without the details.
The details are important as scum, but are useless without the agenda of a bigger picture.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:12 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

Strategic as scum, Tactical as Town
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:58 am

Post by Transcend »

In post 13, Aeronaut wrote:Strategic as scum, Tactical as Town
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:02 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

Always strategic, all the time.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:50 am

Post by LicketyQuickety »

I'd argue playing strategically as Town has some great benefits.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:31 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You need a lot of information to effectively play strategically as Town. However, it's not the case that that never happens.

In general, I'd say strategic play is worth doing when you have a good opportunity, and that nothing's preventing you using tactical play
as well
. Strategic opportunities are few and far between; tactical opportunities are much more common. (That said, I'm personally fairly bad at tactical play and often fail to take the opportunities in question.)
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:27 pm

Post by Ranmaru »

I think I always consider the long term regardless of alignment but I need more examples to truly show which side of the spectrum I play. This is most likely why people will say I'm 'tryharding' on D1. Yet I need more clarification of strategy and tactics. For example, what is a strategy? What is a tactic? If bandwagoning is a tactic, sure I use use tactics sometimes. Is making sure I take part of early game/rvs strategy? Then I do it too, in the same town game. Is it possible to do tactics and strategy in the same game/alignment?
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:40 pm

Post by Vi »

In post 0, LicketyQuickety wrote:Strategic: Strategic planning emphasizes making goals analyzing the future. In Strategic planning, goals remain the same and methods change.

Tactical: Tactical planning emphasizes making goals analyzing the present. In Tactical planning, methods remain the same and goals change.
Keeping these definitions in mind, particularly the second sentences--

For scum you want both, and most people underrate tactical mindsets. I mean, yes, you want to pressure five people to claim and go out on limbs to keep your scumpartners alive, but a lot of the time - especially when you only draw scum under "disadvantageous conditions" - the path to doing so is either infeasible or carries a strong risk of getting pulled down yourself. Under those circumstances, knowing how and when to adapt without holding onto a position that seems indefensible or inevitable is a Good Thing. Most people should already know this, so stop underrating the scum ground game.

For Town you want a strategic mindset. It's called "knowing what you're doing", and it's my favorite advanced play technique. Whatever it is you post should always have a purpose, even if it's not stated. Otherwise you're wasting time and needlessly opening yourself up to attack. Playing tactically as Town makes you one more dumbass Townie who obstinately flails at the other players and then shrugs postgame about how their preferred method of rolling the dice didn't work out. This only really works if you're Fate and you're here to Trump the site meta.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:02 pm

Post by mykonian »

First thought reading this topic was that it was someone who wanted to share that they knew the difference between strategy and tactics. I guess they got the essence of it. I'm rather confused by the answers though, I think CFJ has the gist of it, but people imply they can employ strategy. As the game starts and you have gotten your role pm, neither side knows all that much really. Scum a tiny bit more, if it's an open you know the setup, you might know some players but idk, rarely you know all of them. What planning can you actually achieve beyond knowing who you'll play off?

As the day starts, and you've made the first serious decision you could plan for (RVS: Y/N), the chips fall and town starts moving into a certain direction with a certain group of people taking the majority of the responsibility for it. The more people can predict who'll get pushed, the less likely it's going to happen as people correct for weaker town. First x pages imo are chaos where both sides try to find their way. I think you are a very smart player if as town you know how to play off that and frankly I don't think you can. Strategy then is limited to risk/reward and tone changes, which is just far removed and general stuff that it imo never 50% of the choices you make in a game.

And then, the real issue. It's much easier to tailor your play to the town if you know where they are going. As scum, I get that you'd want to be strategic, knowing what will come and having days to set up the perfect response. What I don't get is why as town you'd ever let them. Town, to me, has to play a game of opportunism, where as the next post drops and if it gives a way to drop a new insight into the game, you pounce on it. Not just to bring more information, because although it seems erratic and people might not know where you are coming from (which, fair enough, isn't very well liked), every course correction you get the town to make is one scum have to make as well. Town is imo, more or less forced to live in the moment if they want to make scums life as hard as possible.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:33 pm

Post by LicketyQuickety »

In post 20, mykonian wrote:I think you are a very smart player if as town you know how to play off that and frankly I don't think you can.
I'm always trying to improve. How do I improve this particular aspect of my play in the game? I do see how you got there though. Surely you can do it as Scum, but the question remains: how do you learn how to adopt a big picture view of the game? I gave experience as means to an ends in this, but besides that, what would be the method?
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:35 am

Post by hiplop »

they mean the same thing
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:45 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 22, hiplop wrote:they mean the same thing
they actually don't.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:13 am

Post by hiplop »

i was just trying to bump it over the spambot sry
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