Newbie 1663 - Floridian Mafia (Game Over)

[Drixx]

So right now, if Tojam is not scum and Drixx isn't scum either then SS and Ker must be scum together, which is hardly possible since they could have won already. This is what's confusing for me, as I would have to make my decision between who is scum between you and tojam

I've been watching when people are online to try and see if I can figure out who is talking in the scum PT but so far I haven't seen any close times except you and Kerkorrel, and I'm pretty sure Kerkorrel is town.

I would feel about 1000x better about you if you stopped trying to sit on the fence about Tojam. A clear position one way or the other ... especially if you are not willing to agree with the rest about Tojam. That should help bring clarity to things, I think.

[Drixx]

So yeah.

@Mod: Would you kindly let me have VLA until January 5th? Thanks

I would also appreciate it if everyone unvote and discuss more instead.

We've talked it to death and the rest of us have pretty much settled on Tojam. This post by you gives me the heebie jeebies. You want to stall the game out for 3 days? You're the one who is on the fence, so we have to wait for you to talk. That won't help at all.

[Marquis]

@Mod: Would you kindly let me have VLA until January 5th? Thanks

Noted.

[Marquis]

This will be flavour later.

Votecount 3.2

Drixx [1] - tojam2
tojam2 [1] - Something_Smart

Not Voting [3] - Kerkorrel, makesnosense, Drixx

With 5 alive, it takes

3

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2016-01-10 17:00:00).

makesnosense is V/LA until Tue Jan 5.

[makesnosense]

So yeah.

@Mod: Would you kindly let me have VLA until January 5th? Thanks

I would also appreciate it if everyone unvote and discuss more instead.

We've talked it to death and the rest of us have pretty much settled on Tojam. This post by you gives me the heebie jeebies. You want to stall the game out for 3 days? You're the one who is on the fence, so we have to wait for you to talk. That won't help at all.

Ok .. I can YOLO vote or request replacement if you feel that will help but I think that will be even less helpful ..

[Drixx]

So yeah.

@Mod: Would you kindly let me have VLA until January 5th? Thanks

I would also appreciate it if everyone unvote and discuss more instead.

We've talked it to death and the rest of us have pretty much settled on Tojam. This post by you gives me the heebie jeebies. You want to stall the game out for 3 days? You're the one who is on the fence, so we have to wait for you to talk. That won't help at all.

Ok .. I can YOLO vote or request replacement if you feel that will help but I think that will be even less helpful ..

You have to be up early for something important. Real Life comes before mafia. It's just frustrating because even accounting for being new to the site, I can't make any sense of Tojam as town. It's not as if he's unfamiliar with the actual game, since he said himself he's been playing elsewhere. I can't make sense of his posts when I read them and assume he's town. I've been through it over and over and it never adds up.

I think my only issue with things is that there's not much left to say unless he infodumps or actually starts evaluating the game besides just repeatedly OMGUS on me. I'm not sure that there will be anything more for you to evaluate when your VLA is up.

In the end you have to do what you think is right for your wincon mate. Don't let me (or anyone else) make your decision for you.

[Kerkorrel]

I'm really confused. If Tojam is scum and you are his partner, I would expect you to hammer for credibility and then kill me tonight. But you aren't hammering ... so now I'm super confused.

I'm going to unvote and see what KerKorrel thinks. This doesn't feel right.

Unvote

.

makesnosense's behaviour could be that of a mafia player losing motivation because it sees town has pretty much solved the game.

Drixx should realise that if he knows he is town, tojam is mafia. tojam's vote on Drixx has stood for a few days, and if both scum were from Smart/makesnosense/me, scum would have hammered. That only leaves possibilities in which tojam2 is mafia. So I don't know why Drixx is equivocating now.

As for the implicit question of if anyone other than makesnosense could be tojam's partner, for the reasons I gave in 655 and 656 I still only really see it being makesnosense.

The only other plausible mafia team is Something_Smart and Drixx. They haven't interacted much. The vote that Drixx thought was the hammer could have been given by a player of either alignment.

[Kerkorrel]

Noteworthy interactions between SS and Drixx:

361: SS makes a reads list that puts notscience (Drixx) at null.

375: SS says notscience is scummy for buddying with Smithereens, doesn't vote, and seems to find other people more scummy.

533, 536: SS was not keen on lynching notscience when makesnosense and I were. I think this quote is particularly interesting:

You both bring up a fair point about notscience. But the way you both jumped on his wagon seemed surprising and almost planned, and it gave me a crazy theory that you two are scum together.

He then went on to explain why he thinks makesnosense and I might be mafia together. He never defended notscience, but he attacked us for attacking notscience. That is the Chainsaw Defense.

546: Gives intent to hammer notscience, shortly after the deadline was extended.

I still get the feeling that you're not necessarily expecting a scumflip, but with Alita on the wagon it removes the possibility that this is solely scum-led. So I feel a lot better about this lynch now (and the article about no lynching did help). But since we have the extra time we should at least give the other players a chance to return or be replaced. So:

Intent to hammer: notscience

Maybe the plan was all along to wait for notscience's replacement (or a catchup post from notscience) and then to unvote them. I still think this post makes such a team less likely though.

I don't think Drixx's slot has had much to say about Something_Smart.

[Drixx]

Your #681 makes sense. I was confused by makesnosense's behavior. And you're right in #682; Something _Smart has been pretty friendly to me since I joined the game. I think the only real interaction we've had is when I suggested that Makesnosense could have been buddied by Tojam on the advice of another player, and if so then Something_Smart made sense as the partner. Tojam was always going to be under suspicion today because of the quickhammer and it makes sense as a scum gambit for him to get bused and buddy up to a town player, especially a town player who soft defends him.

Your #681 is spot on though; that vote has sat on me forever, and I've seen my own role PM. The only explanation {from my POV} is that the vote on me is from scum, or else the game would be over already.

VOTE: Tojam

Makesnosense did a really good job getting me to question my assumptions. Thank you for pointing out the basic point that nothing can change: there has been a vote on me for a very long time from Tojam. Just because makesnosense didn't vote for cred doesn't change that.

[Drixx]

@Kerkorrel - You made two main points that seem like they need addressing.

1.) You are right that either alignment could have made the vote I did (which I thought was hammer). I would point to the timing of Newbie 1666 ending and my post at the mod as a town slip, but to you it can only be WiFoM. Make of it what you will. Ultimately, with Makesnosense on the fence, the choice to hammer or not is in your hands now. When you hammer, please give your thoughts on who you think is the likeliest partner and why in case the last scum kills you tonight. To me it's a strong lean towards Makesnosense with Something_Smart being a paranoia option.

2.) You said that I haven't interacted much with Something_Smart, but I think that has more to do with the flow of things than any intent on my part. I went back and looked at my ISO and his together (you can do up to 3 players using the menu at the bottom; I just found that out recently), and it reminded me that I had a little bit of qualms because he soft buddied me a bit. I also posited that it makes sense to considered Something_Smart as Tojam's partner bussing him for cred and telling him to buddy makesnosense. Something_Smart didn't like that supposition very much. It felt like a townie response at the time, but it looks more null looking back.

[Something_Smart]

So now Tojam is confirmed scum, otherwise makesnosense or Kerkorrel would have hammered.
Kerkorrel, it's good to be paranoid, but the more we talk today, the more info the scum will have for who to kill.
And Drixx, I don't think Kerkorrel should post his reads; all that does is give the scum more possibilities to throw us off with a WIFOM kill. I think we already have enough information to lynch correctly tomorrow.

[Kerkorrel]

VOTE: tojam2

[Marquis]

This will be flavour later.

Votecount 3.3

Drixx [1] - tojam2
tojam2 [3] - Something_Smart, Drixx, Kerkorrel

Not Voting [1] - makesnosense

With 5 alive, it takes

3

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2016-01-10 17:00:00).

makesnosense is V/LA until Tue Jan 5.

[Marquis]

tojam2 was lynched Day 3. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

Kerkorrel and makesnosense,

Vanilla Townies

, were endgamed.

Something_Smart and Drixx,

Mafia Goons

, both survive and win Newbie 1663!

Private topics and more info to be released upon goodmorning's return. For now, Mafia can say whether they'll allow for their PT to be released or not.

[Something_Smart]

Good game, everybody!
Thank you all for playing, and trying in a game riddled with replacements.
Thanks goodmorning and Marquis for modding.
Thanks Drixx for being an awesome partner.
And Tojam, I apologize for your frustration. You replaced into a spot that already had suspicion and you just got pummeled by Drixx. And you did pretty well, considering the position you were in- you came to the correct conclusion.

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah and I don't mind if you release the mafia PT. That way everyone can see how pissed I was at notscience

[Kerkorrel]

Oh man. Well done to SS and Drixx, you both did well. Sorry, town.

[Drixx]

I'm fine with the mafia PT being opened.

You didnt' do anything wrong Kerkorrel. LYLO is so difficult as a town player. You had the right approach. We just got lucky with the series of events.

[Alita]

GG guys, shoulda posted more during that 2nd day, also shouldn't have complimented drixx on the case against me . Oh well good to learn.

[Something_Smart]

You did a good job, Kerkorrel. 682 had me really scared, particularly the part about the Chainsaw Defense (I was surprised nobody called it out when I first did it).

[Drixx]

Yeah. I was so worried that Kerkorrel would figure us out, I went through a song and dance with pretending I thought I had hammered and the window dressing, and even pointed to another game I had just lost. I pulled out every trick in the book to look like I was legitimately trying to figure out the game and anxious about it.

[imkingdavid]

Ehh I figured it was you, Drixx, when you weren't the NK. I do like how you prepared for the WIFOM by saying SEVERAL TIMES that you would be the obvious NK choice during Day 2. I should have picked up on that sooner but I was tunneling Alita a little too hard.

Was I just NKed because I was the most experienced of the remaining players besides yourself? Or well, I guess you told me why you killed me right here:

We can still talk until the thread is locked.

@tojam2

- Did you read the thread at all? Do you have any reads on anyone else? What do you mean by Alita was "a little too certain about events"?

This is almost certainly the reason that imkingdavid is not on the alive list. The question is whether this is just the scum team getting rid of someone who was already questioning one of them (if tojam2 is part of the scum team), or if it's a frame job (if he's not). My initial thought is that tojam2 replaced into the Rubidium slot, which was a close 2nd place behind Alita for most scummy, and the quick hammer appears to me to be an attempt to get to LYLO. Now we have an obvious lynch target ... but we now have to get it right two days in a row to win, and we can be sure that the strongest town player will be killed tonight if we lynch correctly today.

So here are the things that I could see that made it almost impossible for town to win:
- Smith day 1 unprovoked cop claim. That gave us no chance of finding scum without a lot of active and proactive scumhunting from town players. Which didn't happen.
- The number of inactive players and the need for so many replacements
- The early pages of the game were just arguments between a couple of people, allowing scum to sit back and watch. A long thread is a scum's friend because it means that people aren't going to want to spend as much time combing through it.
- Alita active lurking through Day 2 which made him a prime target. - I'm sure it wasn't your intent, but it was scummy to only have 11 posts by that point in the game when I replaced in on like page 23, I think it was.
- tojam replacing into such a late game scenario with no mafiascum forum experience. No offense to him, and i encourage him to start his next newbie game from scratch, but it did make him a pretty easy lynch target.

Good game to all, and good job scum.

[Drixx]

Yeah David ... you got it spot on why you were the kill choice.

One of the things I like to do as scum is tell the truth as much as I can. The more I can be actually saying true things and legitimately questioning people, the less time I spend worrying about slipping.

[tojam2]

I told you so...

[tojam2]

... but good game, see you in the next one.