Newbie 1666 - THE ZAR SHOW S01E04 - D3 - OVER!

[Jake from State Farm]

- Jake I consider a fruitcake that should genuinely be PL lynched in every game, regardless of alignment, he would have easily lost us the game at lylo if he had not been lynched. At the end there when he refused to answer Drixx out of what could have only been pure stubbornness I was about to unvote but then I thought about what would happen with him at lylo and let it rest.

Excuse me if anyone who deserves to be policy lynched it was ircher or drixx. Also, I don't think I ever refused to answer anyone especially drixx so not sure what you were you think I did.

And drixx, now it's over you will see I was telling the truth that I never soft claimed or
Crumbed cop. I never crumb in games, your paranoia hurt town. Also stop looking for crumbs as town, smart PRs aren't going to crumb, looking for crumbs is something scum do.

[copper223]

Before I hammer, I would very much appreciate it if you gave a read on each alive player with just a sentence or two explaining it. This is your last chance to share your thoughts, and if I am wrong, I will want to know your thoughts because that will mean tomorrow is likely to be LYLO, and having thoughts from someone whose motives I can trust will be very helpful in that situation.

I don't do list reads so sorry I can't comply with that request.

This was the post in question.

[Jake from State Farm]

That's not refusing to answer him. I don't do list reads. I'm personally against them as I feel they are antitown. I've argued with people in the past about it. So sorry try again

[Jake from State Farm]

I actually encourage all players to stop doing them. They rarely help town and help Mafia more. I don't really have the time to argue these points with anyone else cause I've done in it previous games but that's my belief and I won't ever change my opinion.

[copper223]

Yes, I understand what you think, the point is that it was not the kind of post I would expect a scum player was going to post before getting hammered, but as I said, for me you were the best scum player in the game regardless of alignment.

[Jake from State Farm]

I wasn't a scum player at all. Nothing I did was scummy ircher fucking lied about me and I'm the best scum player? Get real

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw to all the people who said I pushed for a zombie lynch. That was still a lie. I never pushed for his lynch, I merely voted him and defended my vote/reasons

[copper223]

I am real, as far as I am concerned you deserve to be PL'd day 1 in every game as a matter of course.

That's it for me, if Drixx wants to report you for abusive play in a newbie I'll be happy to back him up.

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw both of Drixx's hammers were absolutely terrible. He was the scum mvp if you ask me

[Jake from State Farm]

I am real, as far as I am concerned you deserve to be PL'd day 1 in every game as a matter of course.

That's it for me, if Drixx wants to report you for abusive play in a newbie I'll be happy to back him up.

Abuaive play? Now you are just delusional. There was no abusive play from me

[Jake from State Farm]

You're obviously just trolling now so good bye everyone. Ircher and drixx hands down the worst players in the game.

[AlwaysInnocent]

The thing is that almost every town player made mistakes. Yes, Drixx shouldn't have hammered so early. He clearly made a mistake by pre-maturely lynching Zombie. I was pushing him to do that, though (a fact no-one ever bothered to bring up against me). Even though Drixx is an experienced player, we all make mistakes, especially under pressure.

Jake, you're a decent player, but it seems that you are unable to revise your belief on someone. Bad play is not always alignment indicative. In another thread you asked how you could improve your play: perhaps by setting your ego aside and focus on other players as well?

When Drixx roleclaimed, you still didn't believe him, even when it was rational to do so.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Ircher's play wasn't

that

bad, actually. He made some serious blunders, but in the endgame he was closer to the truth than any other townie. I think he won't repeat the same mistakes again.

[copper223]

Claiming scum at lylo and assuming there is a BP without considering the JK only case, when only scum would know which setup we were in, are pretty game defining mistakes, but Ircher (and Zombie) are newbies (in the real sense, not like DoTA, Convex and you, who are just new to the site), and this game format is made in particular for them to learn and enjoy the game, so I don't have a gripe with the way they played.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Yeah. I think their next games will be a lot better.

[copper223]

@Drixx
I also think giving the rest of the players more time before hammering would have been better, likely after you were told about having to move the game along as the IC in previous reviews you tried to over-correct a bit too much this time, but I don't think it would have changed the outcome.

Otherwise you did a good job of explaining the theory of the game when asked.

[Jake from State Farm]

When Drixx roleclaimed, you still didn't believe him, even when it was rational to do so.

It wasn't rational to do so though

1. He didn't role claim, he soft claimed though it probably wouldn't make much of a difference imo
2. You are new so you obviously never seen scum lie and fake claim. That's something you will experience with time. I've played Forum Mafia for over 6 or 7 years so I've seen lots of stunts.
3. I don't automatically believe anyone just cause they soft claim or even full claim. I've seen scum lynched while claiming a PR and nobody CC'd them. I base my reads on a persons play and Drixx's play was scummy imo. It didn't help that he was accusing me of things that weren't true or that I didn't even do.
4. If drixx was scum and thought I was actually the cop, I was an easy target and trading a Mafia goon for a cop is a win for Mafia. The way drixx was coming after me cause he thought I was a cop just read to me like a scum movie. It didn't help that he hammered so early denying town lots of time and information.

[Jake from State Farm]

Anyways. Y'all want to blame me and pl me in future games, go ahead but when you rank the bad play in this game drixx and ircher played way worse.

[Zar]

I don't really think its a worse play contest. I do think that the way the collective town played helped the scum win (it was easier for the NJAC slot to pass unnoticed when the town was busy tearing esch other apart, for one). I think the timing of the Zombie lynch was not benefiicial dor the town (it certainly didn't help that Zombie was in his own mob? But I'll blame it ob his own inexperience.

What I really didn't understand was why Drixx pushed Jake, given that he had jailed him (?).

[AlwaysInnocent]

When Drixx roleclaimed, you still didn't believe him, even when it was rational to do so.

It wasn't rational to do so though

1. He didn't role claim, he soft claimed though it probably wouldn't make much of a difference imo
2. You are new so you obviously never seen scum lie and fake claim. That's something you will experience with time. I've played Forum Mafia for over 6 or 7 years so I've seen lots of stunts.
3. I don't automatically believe anyone just cause they soft claim or even full claim. I've seen scum lynched while claiming a PR and nobody CC'd them. I base my reads on a persons play and Drixx's play was scummy imo. It didn't help that he was accusing me of things that weren't true or that I didn't even do.
4. If drixx was scum and thought I was actually the cop, I was an easy target and trading a Mafia goon for a cop is a win for Mafia. The way drixx was coming after me cause he thought I was a cop just read to me like a scum movie. It didn't help that he hammered so early denying town lots of time and information.

1. He didn't really softclaim. His roleclaim was hard, except that he didn't say what PR he was. This was obviously because he didn't want scum to know what his PR was in order to protect himself (as a confirmed town). He was very specific about the game not having a cop role, which would have been super-risky if he were scum.
2. I'm new to this site, but not to the game. In general roleclaims are authentic in my experience. I have witnessed false roleclaims, but they do not always work very well.
3. Sure, sometimes you have reservations about whether a claim is true, but the claim itself (in a semi-open setup) makes it much more likely that the roleclaimer is town.
4. I'm not sure if scum would want to trade a goon for a cop. I believe that this trade is still considered beneficial for town (so a loss for scum). I certainly would not have tried to lure out a cop this way. Waaay too risky.

[Workdawg]

The only thing I have to say about this is...

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK was with that first lynch? Two scum votes and THEN three town votes? You should all be ashamed you let that happen.

[AlwaysInnocent]

The only thing I have to say about this is...

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK was with that first lynch? Two scum votes and THEN three town votes? You should all be ashamed you let that happen.

Well, they didn't know two scum were voting when it happened.

[copper223]

@AI
The scum PT made for a fun read, glad we at least made you worry at some point.

[Drixx]

Why is AI alive right now? Think about that and then vote however you will. I can't find any logical reason to prefer one lynch over the other. There are solid reasons to lynch both. I don't think you can both be scum, so if you are both in agreement, that tips me to prefer Ircher today.

My reservation is that Ircher's vote feels like real frustration; however, with all the suspicion on AI, it's quite possible that what we're seeing is a gambit.

I should have listened to myself. I knew Ircher's vote post felt like genuine town frustration.

[Drixx]

What I really didn't understand was why Drixx pushed Jake, given that he had jailed him (?).

With two scum, jailing someone was meaningless unless there was a lack of a kill.