Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[Merlyn]

Hi everyone! I'm starting from the beginning, bear with me

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

Unrelated but

@Merlyn

: hello! Can you confirm or deny this? (No need to claim what action your slot took, just that it took an action)

Deny. Why was this a question though?

[Merlyn]

Merlyn 'cause she's always scum and I totally should've caught her in dividing connor except I was more pre-occupied with

LMAO happy to break this streak here.

[Merlyn]

Hi everyone! I'm starting from the beginning, bear with me

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

Unrelated but

@Merlyn

: hello! Can you confirm or deny this? (No need to claim what action your slot took, just that it took an action)

Deny. Why was this a question though?

please confirm or deny that you're a pr

At this moment, without having the rest of the game read, I'm only comfortable stating that my slot took no action last night. Now, let me know why you're asking or I'll just go back to reading and eventually catch up.

[Merlyn]

ur slot claimed pr and basically used that to avoid getting pushed yesterday
i'm trying to verify if that is actually a really claim

i think you should claim yes/no pr

So, I just finished D1- Andante hardclaimed PR. Not softclaimed. What do you mean, you're trying to verify if that is actually a claim?

[Merlyn]

Okay, I've caught up to D2. The rest will have to wait till tomorrow.

Spoiler: My Giant Wall O' Thoughts:

Okay, first two pages are just everyone being funny. Man, there are some awesome players in here, sorry I missed Drew and Alianna!

Page four the game is def out of RVS, first thing is a fight between my slot and sheep. For some reason skitter is in it being kind of aggressive to Andante. Sheep seems a little towny here to me- defending yourself against Andante is always tough. Not as sure on Skitter. TvS?

Implosion: ooh, I don’t know if I’d use the phrase ‘not-quite-locktown’ for sheep at this point though. That’s a bit much.

Now Invis is after my slot pretty hard. This is interesting, have they never played together before? Being ‘baffled’ at her play here would be very odd if they have, it’s very on brand Andante play.

Oh NVM, they just said they haven’t played together before. Yeah, I could see that being genuine bafflement then LOL

Skitter is back to stoke the fire on Andante.

Ceph, duns, and woo- 10 pages in and nuthin’.

I mean, you don't seem to have any reads?

It kinda feels like half the thread is inside jokes or references to games I didn't play, the other half is reads that change with the weather if the weather had a mood disorder.

LOL, but also I don’t agree? There’s been real discussion already.

What if they're scum looking for something to criticise?

That's always possible, but I didn't read it that way. I agreed with them, it was odd.

If that's the case, why were you so worked up that a wagon built on me?

I wasn't? Lol someone asked what I thought of the wagons. All I said is I don't know why you're being wagoned. This is coming off like you wanting me to address your wagon for you tbh.

There is a disconnect, you questioned why I was being wagoned just after Cat and I voted you. You then voice displeasure with my wagon, I ask what you think of the people on my wagon and do you think they scum read me, you deflected a bit until you said basically 'seems for pressure which is always good'.

Here's the thing, you don't seem scared about a couple votes on you, but I think you were trying to pocket me before your wagon really got going, especially since my wagon gained steam quickly, easy to be the white knight there.

This is pretty much what I was thinking about woo’s posts.

Dunn came in strong with noticing that Alianna’s reads match vote count. Their following posts don’t seem like they think she’s scum though, I’m interested to see if the vote stays.

WOOOO Asia came in and galaxybrained this, I have to be honest, I don’t find woo’s response authentic. I see that Implo and Sheep like it though, and I’m not sure why. The ‘why, though’ would make sense if Woo thought he was hammered without noticed- why that kind of response for what you think is an e-1?

Asia’s posts voting Andante are weirdly town for me. She’s, you know, wrong, but I think scum could come up with better reasoning than “I pulled up a year old game and I suddenly think completely different things now”.

Aisa's approach the last few days is nagging me

The way she has tested different votes (me, skitter, andante) just looks a little openwolfy to me

a) I think it highlights how she's struggling to form legit scumreads, which is just a little more likely wolf than villager

b)I think a more villagery approach would be like alianna's readlist, where she i) admitted explicitly to having a lack of wolfreads and b) concluded "there's likely a decent amount of wolves in the inactives," which is a valid conclusion imo. rather than like, aisa forcing herself to turn on different actives, such as her former townreads

Eh? Pressuring with votes is something town’s gotta do, voting is a weapon. Also, why a sudden defense of Alianna slid in there?


I’m not loving skitters casual slide in the enchant wagon.

skitter is, imo, a player who is easier to read as time goes on and generally the best approach is to treat her with good faith and to see where she's trying to steer the game -- if you're working with her and you land on town a couple of days in a row there is a good shout she's scum. this has been my default mode to approach her for I think years(?) now, but despite that I've been making slightly more effort to actually read her instead of just townbinning her until D3

Gonna quote this so I remember to look later.

And also they aren't doing nothing. Dunn had interesting comments on Alianna's reads list. Woo was doing nothing for a while, got prodded, and is now doing things. Not a ton of things, granted, but 407 is content, and many other posts are also game-relevant. Enchant's ISO has no actual content. Read it. It could have content if Enchant plays the game, but Not Playing the Game in the way Enchant is doing right now, is Enchant's scum meta.

this is accurate

I don’t think any of it is accurate actually

I think the game is like two thirds solved lol

No I will not elaborate at this point

Quoting THIS for posterity.

Thank you btw

I know deadline is approaching but I would still really like to see what both dunn and woo think of current gamestate before day ends

Mena seems town to me, scum should have let the wagon roll

Implosions entire main root of their case is using meta about enchant entrances…I would want something stronger than that if I was going to be so passionate, but maybe that’s how they always play.

My end of D1 takeaway is skitter, dunn, and implo, ceph are leaning scum for me, this may change as I read the rest.

[Merlyn]

ur slot claimed pr and basically used that to avoid getting pushed yesterday
i'm trying to verify if that is actually a really claim

i think you should claim yes/no pr

So, I just finished D1- Andante hardclaimed PR. Not softclaimed. What do you mean, you're trying to verify if that is actually a claim?

Do you confirm you're a pr yes/no?

I'm trying to get you to either commit or walk it back

Yes, of course I do. And I would do that as scum or town, obviously, because my slot has already claimed. Walk it back? There is no walking back a hard claim. Now, I'm gonna ask again- what did you mean when you said you wanted to 'verify if that is actually a really claim'?

[Merlyn]

Okay, caught up. I'm gonna focus on top wagon with the time left in the day.
The Fire wagon:
started by Egix, seemingly as a pressure vote for the slot's predecessor. Which makes sense, because after interacting with Fire more, Egix feels better about the slot and unvotes. But before the unvote, three votes happen:

Dunnstral votes the slot with no explanation

VOTE: Deltabreedy

YALL. They never build a case. Go look at their ISO. The two things they say about the slot:

Right now I am thinking

Alianna mafia, Aureal town, Implosion town, Aisa tow

Alianna hasn't been in the game for 4 real life days when Dunn says this BTW. With all the replacement=palooza that went on I kind of get it, but I also kind of don't because they never interact with Fire, never say why the vote happened or why the vote stays. In this light it looks carelessness, like scum parked a vote somewhere and kind of forgot about having to defend the read.

Fireisredsir is being very reasonable but I'm not sure if that makes them town. But I my reasons to scumread their slot weren't that strong in the first place either.

Yooo you have been voting this slot all of D2. Why are you willing to lim based on this?

Cephrir votes with no explanation, and when asked refers back to his case against Alianna in 992 :

VOTE: Delta

I'm not following you, I already talked about why I think that slot is scum and my other suspects don't seem to be as popular

which is fair. I can see this being towny. The thing is, the case in 992 is not enough of a reason to lim the slot. I would want to see some updated reads here, and what fire has done/not done to make Ceph feel like keeping the vote.

Skitter votes- it took me a while to find the case, which came after the vote, but I think it's here (skitter please correct me if I'm wrong):

a lot of alianna's takes were questionable at best. she's very obvious of being town when she's town and contributing, here her thoughts felt a lot more forced
i'm also nto sure she would have replaced as town, and the fact that the slot went thru two replacements is questionable to me

for mena: i feel like you tried p hard to read his posts in not good faith. more importantly, i feel like when you realized you couldn't make it stick, you backed down: you didn't 'have conviction in what you were posting, and i found that scummy

So it's based on: questionable takes from Alianna, meta about Alianna, two replacements meta, not liking the push on Mena. Two of those reasons aren't good enough for a lim (meta about whether or not Alianna would have replaced as town and the slot going through two replacements, we can cancel those right out). The other two are totally valid, but there's no facts presented to back them up, they're good enough for a pressure vote, but for a lim?

Mena indicates they're willing to vote for Fire at this point (the 'de facto E1 post), and Egix unvotes, stating they liked Fire's 1230. So at this point, Fire has three votes on them that range from questionable motives to middling reasoning.

This is when Fire and Mena have a big fight and Mena votes Fire. I see that others have broken this down already, so I won't retread unless asked, but Mena's vote and reasoning seems pretty town to me. The big thing that Mena did not like from fire, though, I kind of thought was fair of Fire to bring up- this post:

In post 679, Menalque wrote:
I think the game is like two thirds solved lol

No I will not elaborate at this point

I think Fire was a little sarcastic with it (the wowwwww thing) and also blew it out of proportion, which pissed Mena off. But to actually question Mena about this post is fair I think. I went looking too see if you ever did elaborate Mena, and unless I missed it I don't think you have yet.

SOOOOOO TLDR:
This wagon is not strong enough for a lim. 2 of the votes seem like they could come from town pretty easily, and two of them are varying shades of dubious. I'm not voting on Fire for this. In fact Dunnstral's weak vote here, added to the fact that I already sussed them from D1, makes them the primary choice for me. Skitter would be a second choice, and I'll join the wagon there if I can't make Dunnstral happen. VOTE: Dunnstral

[Merlyn]

I was going to write about aureal being wolfy but that post resolves a lot of my concerns

this game is just fucked so weird

This is more for a future day, but what concerns did you have, and how did Aureals post resolve them?

[Merlyn]

Never played with Dunn before, so I won't be trying to meta him. I can only go off his actions in THIS game, and in this game that is a sus looking vote.

[Merlyn]

but eh i don't really want to lim him its just maybe a world i should be considering more than i have been

Okay, I see you're voting skitter. why is skitter a better vote than dunn in your eyes?

[Merlyn]

So, the main reason you aren't considering Dunn is bc of Aureal voting Dunn? I don't think that's enough not to consider them. If Aureal is scum, she's a good enough player to feel comfortable throwing a vote at a partner who doesn't even have a wagon on them. That's a pretty low risk thing.

P-edit: I would prefer hearing about why skitter specifically is a better choice than Dunn, talking only about Aureal doesn't seem to be a helpful thing right now. Like, she has no votes on her and we have about a day and change, so the time would probably be better spent on you, skitter, and dunn.

P-edit again: I'll look at the ISO you just put up of sheep, the thing about them that pinged me so far was I noticed they keep posting, "this game is tough!" and "we need more people to engage!" without a ton of content on their part. It's why I asked about what concerns you resolved in your pretty short post, without knowing them it looks like a post that scum can make to stay active and look helpful.

[Merlyn]

Looking at that ISO it looks to me like a list of what sheep HASN'T done- post concrete reads or pressure people they find sus. I know that sometimes town can run around being indecisive though and I don't think this is strong enough to vote for them. I'll stick with Dunn or skitter.

[Merlyn]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

So, just checking, you're not feeling Aureal as town anymore?

[Merlyn]

So, the main reason you aren't considering Dunn is bc of Aureal voting Dunn? I don't think that's enough not to consider them. If Aureal is scum, she's a good enough player to feel comfortable throwing a vote at a partner who doesn't even have a wagon on them. That's a pretty low risk thing.

P-edit: I would prefer hearing about why skitter specifically is a better choice than Dunn, talking only about Aureal doesn't seem to be a helpful thing right now. Like, she has no votes on her and we have about a day and change, so the time would probably be better spent on you, skitter, and dunn.

1) that's part of it but also i don't scumread dunn and i think his thing he did with calling andante town for replacing out and just the way he went about it feels very very town to me, even if the rest COULD come from him as scum

2) ive talked about skitter plenty you can find the posts where i explain why i think she's scum

1) Okay, I went back and read the post in question again, we may just not be on the same page there. I see zero reason scum wouldn't put up a strong defense of a slot they know will be revealed as town- I mean, let's be real, my slot is unlikely to survive the night, it's a good spot for scum to say 'look! I was right that they were town!' about. I guess it could see more town to me if Dunn had swooped in to save my slot from an imminent lim, but that doesn't seem like how things were going.

2) Fair enough, I can see why you're sticking with your vote. I don't disagree with your skitter posts either, so I get it.

[Merlyn]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

So, just checking, you're not feeling Aureal as town anymore?

I rly have no idea about that slot lol, I need to ISO it sometime but like probably not this day cuz it doesnt matter we shouldn't CFD at this point

if we lim fire and fire flips town I would townread the slot but fire actually makes a really good point about avoiding skitter so possibly nvm

I can see Aureal's point, though, this is another good example of it. You look like an active contributor, but your posts have actually been "Aureal seems town to me, people need to talk more about the wagons, Aurea might not be town after all, unless fire flips then they might be town, but then again nvm." So there's been no content. How about this: what do you think about my case on Dunn?

[Merlyn]

is the dunn case 1469?

Yup yup, that's why I'm voting Dunn.

[Merlyn]

@sheep- I see your request for a read, I will say that you are NOT my number one townread lol so I'm glad you reflected on that. I'm not sure who my number one townread is, or if I have one yet.

Leaning town:
Ceph, Mena, Firebringer, Egix, sheep

Haven't gotten a read on:
Implo
Aureal
Aisa


Leaning scum:
dunn, skitter

Coming in when the deadline is looming, I've been focusing more on who I think is limmable scum than town.

@Ceph- I could see Aureal as scum, but my main feelings on that are meta (bc I've played twice with her as town and she wasn't as active) and I don't think that's a good enough reason to yeet someone. I do think this is a slot that should be looked into in more depth.

My ultimate feeling though is along these lines:

One advantage of flipping in {fire, skitter} is that we will definitely resolve one of them, lol. I worry that if we flip someone else we’ll just end up having collective paranoia over those two slots again tomorrow.

unless you now think that fire v skitter is tvt then I don't see why we shouldn't just stay the course.

Unless anyone is feeling strongly that fire and skitter are both town, we need to vote along these lines. Skitter has already claimed, let's be really careful of not having any more claims than nesscessary. I don't think I have the dunn votes or they'd be happening, so I'll UNVOTE: Dunn and VOTE: skitter.

[Merlyn]

that's E-1 I think

[Merlyn]

(out of game) the flavor of this game is AMAZING. I'm obsessed with the little weird ominous town we live in

[Merlyn]

Wheeee! Amazing work, town!!! I've been keeping up whenever I can, so excited to see you pull this off! Sheep and Ydrasse and Egix, you guys were a great scumteam, I really didn't know how this game would go.

BIGGEST props though to Umlaut- the flavor in this game is next level good. Every damn votecount is hilarous/creepy. Plus I really appreciate it when mods make post one such a wealth of info and quicklinks like you did.

[Merlyn]

Shout-out to the scumteam. Despite this game at times feeling pretty punishing as town, I think I'd cry if I rolled scum in 11v2 mountainous, lol.

Yeah, that's a pretty rough roll for everyone, as it turns out.

Also shout-out to everyone I ever had a wrong scumread on, and there were lots of you
Mission hold-a-consistent-townread-on-Aureal failed, again, by such a wide margin, lol. I'll have to try again next time!

It's okay, I'll be town again next time.

*staring at something like 14:1 town ratio where the 1 is multiball, to boot*

Aureal, I was just thinking about how I haven't come across your scumgame to compare to your (very good) towngame, but I had no idea. What did you do to RNG???

[Merlyn]

I'll take a pagetop.

Bu-wh-you can't have a pagetop after the game! Right...?