Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue [Completed]

[Black]

Now that we know Ranger/JV is scum I don't really think we can clear Jupiter for not knowing who replaced JV. If Ranger were town I think this would have been more believable

Dann was pretty convinced Jupiter was town though and I generally trust his reads, so this is tough

[Black]

i think fire is town lol

This feels bad

[Black]

Ok that's all I can do for now

PC try not to make a decision before I get the chance to look at how people interacted with JV when he was getting pushed

[Black]

Hmm. 2241 does feel like Jupiter was trying to get me to join the wagon

[Black]

Now that we know Ranger/JV is scum I don't really think we can clear Jupiter for not knowing who replaced JV. If Ranger were town I think this would have been more believable

wouldn't it be the other way around? scum jupiter would have more awareness of who his scumbuddies were.

Dann was pretty convinced Jupiter was town though and I generally trust his reads, so this is tough

i agree

I guess I'm thinking it's more likely for Jupiter to fake this if it involves his scumbuddy

[Black]

I am feeling more and more convinced all 3 scum were on my wagon so it should be between jupiter and black

I'M TOWN

[Black]

Wait ranger said something hold on

[Black]

So if my gut reads on this page are correct (BIG IF) then that means the 3 scum are tris, hellbooks, and Ranger

So if my gut reads on this page are correct (BIG IF) then that means the 3 scum are tris, hellbooks, and Ranger

Interesting solve, considering that'd mean two scum off of a wagon on town.

Ranger is implying that she thinks scum would be on the PC wagon. So that kinda makes me think there was at least one scum off

[Black]

I am feeling more and more convinced all 3 scum were on my wagon so it should be between jupiter and black

I'M TOWN

we're all going to vote again for who we think it is then I'll pick the one with plurality votes since most of those will be town. If its a tie then I'll just pick.

Not a terrible idea honestly

[Black]

in fact my hammer seems to only have gone through when I said I was going to switch to fire and try to convince tris to join.

black moved off after you said this

I think he knows this

I understand it looks bad but fire took advantage of me switching to PC and hammered as soon as I did

[Black]

Ranger got upset with me when I came in and voted for fire

[Black]

UNVOTE: i need to do a little thinking / reading

Why did you unvote fire here

[Black]

Wow that timing was incredible

[Black]

what are your reads on fire everybody

jupiter would you vote fire
tris has your read changed since you voting fire during deadline scramble

I would vote fire. Unless there's something in my catch-up that would change that

I'm fine with limming anyone and pressing on the gas right now then.

Why does it seem like you're in a rush

Which alignment usually does near endgame?

^ Ranger trying to convince me PC is scum

I would vote fire. Unless there's something in my catch-up that would change that

I would vote Black, unless there's something in her catch-up that would change that.

^ Ranger mocking me

i think that PC won't actually vote black here despite the posturing

VOTE: Black

^ fire trying to coerce PC into fading me

VOTE: fireisredsir

Sorry if this is wrong but I won't have time to really do much until Friday night and I feel like I need to do something

Attempting to end the day with a fire elimination when there’s plenty of time on the deadline clock is certainly doing something.

I wouldn’t call it protown.

^ Ranger giving me flak for voting for her scumbuddy

[Black]

jacksons iso makes me think it's black. both fire and black trying to help them get back in the game. damn hmmmmm.

Ugh. It's not me

[Black]

We will lose if you do that

[Black]

2615 implicates me as town unless you think fire and Ranger were both ganging up on their scumbuddy that was trying to get back into the game

[Black]

Sorry if this is wrong but I won't have time to really do much until Friday night and I feel like I need to do something

Attempting to end the day with a fire elimination when there’s plenty of time on the deadline clock is certainly doing something.

I wouldn’t call it protown.

Ranger doesn't show visible frustration here if I'm scum with her. She does if I'm town voting for her buddy fire though

[Black]

Hmm. 2241 does feel like Jupiter was trying to get me to join the wagon

?

Do you disagree? Why else would you ask me about PC voting for himself

[Black]

also black if you're not scum then explain why i am
can't guarantee a defense because honestly i cant really be bothered but

I'm not convinced it's you over Tris/hellbooks like PC is

[Black]

Hmm. 2241 does feel like Jupiter was trying to get me to join the wagon

?

Do you disagree? Why else would you ask me about PC voting for himself

thats a post from fire, my guy

Whoops. I meant to quote the post where you asked me if I had seen PC voting for himself

[Black]

also black if you're not scum then explain why i am
can't guarantee a defense because honestly i cant really be bothered but

This feels a little performative though

[Black]

also black if you're not scum then explain why i am
can't guarantee a defense because honestly i cant really be bothered but

This feels a little performative though

how? you're fencesitting on me like "oh well I think _ is better than jupiter" and then making posts about behaviors ive done that are scummy or whatever. if you think im scum id like to see you explain why

Of course I'm fence sitting. I'm not sure which of you three is scum. I'm going to point out scummy behavior if I see it

[Black]

also black if you're not scum then explain why i am
can't guarantee a defense because honestly i cant really be bothered but

This feels a little performative though

how? you're fencesitting on me like "oh well I think _ is better than jupiter" and then making posts about behaviors ive done that are scummy or whatever. if you think im scum id like to see you explain why

Of course I'm fence sitting. I'm not sure which of you three is scum. I'm going to point out scummy behavior if I see it

okay and i'd just like to reiterate that if you think i'm scum i'd like to see you explain why

I think it's possible you're scum, yeah. I've thought you were scum for like 90% of this game. If you want to know why you can just go look at any of my posts about you

[Black]

Jupiter if you assume for a second that I'm town then who do you think it is between Tris/hellbooks?

[Black]

fire was flipped because the timing of the hammer clearly implicates them. ranger had to be flipped no matter what if I'm the assassin. it might actually heavily point to town black? or is my analysis wrong here?

I am Town but how does this implicate that exactly? I feel like the way fire/Ranger treated me Yesterday is better evidence. Fire tried to get you to wagon me with him and Ranger got upset when I voted for fire without being caught up

[Black]

Jupiter if you assume for a second that I'm town then who do you think it is between Tris/hellbooks?

tris, reaction to PC is strange

VOTE: hellbooks

?

[Black]

thats been mostly true about tris in the previous three games i played where she was town

thats been mostly true about tris in the previous three games i played where she was town

so you're saying they're town and jupiter is town?

ill vote tris if we're doing that system

It feels like there is a disconnect here

Why tris over me?

[Black]

thats been mostly true about tris in the previous three games i played where she was town

so you're saying they're town and jupiter is town?

ill vote tris if we're doing that system

why not black?

Get out of my head

[Black]

i just mean that tris not taking stances isnt a reason to scumread her

i think that black has had interactions with JV that are too obviously look bad and doing things in the later game that are risky and so it would make more sense that she was uninformed of JV's and fire's alignment
on the contrast i think that tris has kind of been more conscious about distancing both JV and fire in ways that dont openly make her look bad
i also think that the ranger black interaction stuff, yeah maybe it could be scu mtheater, but it could be an intentional scum tactic from ranger trying to incriminate black
so thats not moving the needle for me

Thats just my instincts here

Just curious, did you pull my interactions with JV from memory or did you go back and look at them?

[Black]

ugh
if PC flips scum that's nice i guess but if he doesnt im honestly kind of fucked

Why did you say this

[Black]

fellas it might be ranger here

Also can you explain the thought process behind this

[Black]

Just curious, did you pull my interactions with JV from memory or did you go back and look at them?

it was when i was scrolling up thru jupiters iso to see if he was being consistent around the replacement mixup thing

lemme uh, check ISO and see if PC/Black is more or less likely. give me a sec,

I know Black and JV were sitting on the same wagon together on me but in the timeframe when JV got more inactive Black rescinded wagon on me. I'll have to see if my estimates are right or not

If im reading this correctly then Jupiter would be faking the replacement thing from this point
sobasically jupiter is like "ok heres how were gonna get a lim on Political Clout. i am going to fake a misunderstanding in subtle ways for 5 days while also just like voting other people"
it just like really doesnt seem likely to me

jupiter quoted some stuff you said about JV then

Why did you wait until 300 posts later to post your thoughts about the interactions?

[Black]

Bloop

[Black]

FUCK

[Black]

Jupiter is talking to himself in the scum PT rn

[Black]

ok so the arguments in favor of tris scum
- careful seeming bussing of JV and fire
- trying to slow down the game maybe demonstrative of fearing assassin
- black's flailing here feels kind of towny but admittedly i dont know meta

arguments in favor of black scum
- PC counter wagon timing after serious hammer threat to fire
- more unwilling to rule jupiter out which might be towny critical thinking but would also probably be a necessary move to get cover after the PC wagon plus leaving more options open

undecided
- ranger black post wagon interaction... but the thing is fire & black were also kind of like doing a simultaneous opposite theater preformance that was also happening. yeah maybe. plausibly all three scum just jump in the thread and do excessive bits of theatre to try and reclaim the position they sacrificed in order to protect fire lim. i kind of had this pet theory that black was pretending to townread fire in hopes that he is convinced to try to endgame which seems not to be true

im leaning tris

Is there any reason why you didn't include your thoughts about me/JV interactions in this post? This was right after you supposedly looked back and formed an opinion on them

[Black]

im probably not gonna be around today

for the sake of opinion equity (to go along with our newly found vote equity) i will say that i think it feels a little more like the kind of towny post that scum hellbooks makes than the kind of towny post that town hellbooks makes

These were the only two posts fire made on this day. I think what bothers me the most about this is that hellbooks, despite consistently responding to fire before and after this, chose not to respond to this comment at all

[Black]

Fire just drops his scumread on hellbooks out of nowhere. After scumreading her for pretty much the entire early game he eventually just stops talking about and to her. He votes for tris, JV, python, all the while he doesn't seemed concerned about hellbooks!scum at all. It doesn't even feel like he tries to sort her after a certain point

[Black]

idr when i stopped scumreading hellbooks but i do even less now

hellbooks doesn't respond to this either. Which is weird considering she made a post earlier in the game asking "will fire ever stop scumreading me?"

[Black]

you guys ready to vote? I think I am.

No, I'm only on fire's ISO. I need to look at JV's next please

[Black]

There doesn't seem to be any indication that fire and hellbooks were actually trying to sort each other

[Black]

virgo could very well be of the mafia

My response to that

i feel like voting back there and calling it a night, but i have more responsibility now that i have power over another's vote

pedit: i cannot figure out how the arms are moving in that image. regardless, it prevents me from voting virgo

I don't really like this

[Black]

Eh, I actually think the conversation between fire and tris on page 24 feels kinda natural and unaligned. Is seems like tris is genuinely curious about fire's read

[Black]

VOTE: virgo while i re-evaluate

good morning hellbooks UNVOTE:

tris can you explain why you voted for Virgo initially and also why you unvoted?

i should consider the merits of returning my vote to JV

if i were forced to vote right this moment, i would vote for black. alright night night!

And why did you decide you would rather fade me over him?

[Black]

from jupiter's first page iso I think they're town.

What makes you think this?

[Black]

VC 1.11

Votecount 1.11

tris (3):

Dannflor

,

Black

,

usesPython

[E-2]

JacksonVirgo (3):

JupiterXV,

fireisredsir

, tris

[E-2]

hellbooks (1):

Roden

JupiterXV (1):

JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (1):

hellbooks

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in

(expired on 2024-02-21 01:27:42)

.

Mod notes:

• Not prodding Dannflor. (also look at my sig!)
  
• Combined mod ISO

Ok. If tris is scum then that would mean fire and tris were voting for their scumbuddy JV as a tris counterwagon. That doesn't seem very likely at all

[Black]

Same for if Jupiter is scum I just realized

[Black]

Dann I'll spit out my brain real quick while I have a few seconds to think. I like Black and Fire's analysis of the gamestate, as they put in words a lot of what I was thinking in the moment and was writing out in my initial post. There's of course things I think both are wrong on but that's normal but I will delve into why I town-read both when I do the fuller write out.

I thought hellbooks' early game was incredibly fluffy and I hated how complex their presence was (for lack of a better word) for how little that was actually said but their later posts have been substantially better but I haven't had time to really think about it just yet so I will get back to you on that

. Python would probably be my third I want out outside of either of you but that's primarily because of their early game, specifically their interactions with Black which feels like they're trying to pocket her and/or deflect the attention away from themselves. Tris and Roden are the two people I'm finding hard to place. I like tris' vibes and generally leaning them town just based on how I feel when reading their posts but I am aware that's just feeling and I want to avoid using feeling as much as I can.

This feels so hedgy

[Black]

VOTE: hellbooks

PC if you have any questions for me that will make your decision easier just let me know

[Black]

ngl, i feel nervous about black having made her decision already

I'm not around much during the evenings and I can't read anymore tonight. We don't really have much time

[Black]

If I'm wrong, oh well. I didn't really have a good grasp on this game anyway. I'm happy I was right about fire and Ranger though

[Black]

i dont know how to respond to black bc the only thing i can think of is like "well ofc she finds a bunch of stuff when PC says its between black and hellbooks" but i just dont see it that way

If you don't see it this way I find it weird for you to even post it. Feels like shade

[Black]

hellbooks specifically looked for interest in voting fire,

black later jumps on with a real possibility that was going to make the wagon viable

Yeah I saw that post too. To me it read more like hellbooks was trying to gauge where everyone stood with fire. That would make sense in a situation where they are trying to determine who to keep alive at the end

[Black]

why did you move away from voting fire to voting for someone who might be fire's partner right as that player was floating the idea of voting fire

I wasn't really convinced fire was scum and I wasn't even thinking about possible partners for anyone. That was the first day I had come back to the game in a few days and I was several pages behind so my thoughts were really foggy. In hindsight it was a bad vote

[Black]

Jupiter you're awfully quiet

Do you still think it's hellbooks?

[Black]

I'm sure she's quite the scum player

I don't think my play would have been this bad if I were scum. I take pride in my scum games

[Black]

If tris is scum I think she probably deserves the W

If Jupiter is scum I might scream

[Black]

hmm, but i guess it's easy to generate scumreads on your team mates. and this is a set up which encourages scum to have one teammate who is meant to go deep

I had this thought when it seemed like fire generated his hellbooks scumread out of mid-air. And then he just like...forgot about it or something

[Black]

damn

[Black]

Well played!

[Black]

Wait fr??

Jupiter are you town too

[Black]

[Black]

this is the burger arc

[Black]

black if ur scum here ill scream !

I'm town. We won

[Black]

that being said HOW DID FIRE GO UNDER MY RADAR THE WHOLE GAME like i wasnt even being pocketed or anything i genuinely just did not think he was scum

He's really, really good

[Black]

that being said HOW DID FIRE GO UNDER MY RADAR THE WHOLE GAME like i wasnt even being pocketed or anything i genuinely just did not think he was scum

He's really, really good

HE IS i even made a post about it like hm i wonder why fire is someone i dont suspect how weird AND JUST MOVED ON

That's why I said earlier that I picture fire and Dannflor in a dark tower plotting the town's demise every time I see them interacting. They are scary

[Black]

Sorry I was wrong about you Jupiter

[Black]

i credit dann for helping me settle on town reading jupiter at the end

Same though. I was more paranoid than you but eventually Dann's read is what made me rule Jupiter out

[Black]

black you're in my siganture now

<3

[Black]

slowly going to collect black quotes until my entire signature is just stuff she's said

[Black]

im happy that i got some motivation in me for the end of the game

girl same

we did it

[Black]

Damn you really put the typo in there

[Black]

i think if hellbooks is scum here saying that she thinks its tris is incredibly easy to do

and since we eventually become disillusioned in fighting with each other as we have we turn to the next scummy person which is tris

This was a good call

[Black]

I don't think town would land on the correct solve every time. We still had to put in the work and make an educated guess

[Black]

Thank you for modding Dragon! This was fun and I would play this setup again

Still haven't gotten the chance to read the infamous Scum PT but I'll do that later

[Black]

how do i find linguistic tells

Get a degree in English like Dannflor

[Black]

I liked the talking part

Is it really unbalanced to be able to talk during that phase? We could have easily gotten it wrong. It feels like because we got it right y'all are calling it unbalanced

[Black]

If we had gotten it wrong I'm not sure we'd be having the same conversation

[Black]

Hmmmm

Maybe I'll run it as a marathon but with talking and then decide.

I'm not saying I'm right, obviously I'm bad with balance stuff. It was just a thought I had. Maybe it feels more townsided because of the result

Also Black you should also read the deadchat.

I will be reading everything after work!

[Black]

They are definitely fun unless you suddenly get busy, then they're a little stressful