Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[Riabi]

But we don't have a Jailkeeper, because he would have saved Sakura.

Possible, but you can't be certain of that.

[Drezi]

Riabi is a claimed vig, that is confirmed town unless counterclaimed. I was getting ahead of myself with how he went about expecting to be NK-d and shit, since I considered the possibility that the vig would just kill him at night if he derped and fakeclaimed for some reason. Obviously it doesn't make sense cause he'd just flip scum, and I realised it right away. It happens.

[Albert B. Rampage]

First post says it's possible we have a JK. JK is a roleblocker.

A town jailkeeper. Scum are all powerless and share a group action so they can pick someone to kill a townie at night. They can't block you.

[Drezi]

And even if they kill you, your kill goes off aswell.

[Riabi]

And even if they kill you, your kill goes off aswell.

Ok. I didn't realise this. Thanks.

[Drezi]

I was getting ahead of myself with how he went about expecting to be NK-d and not being able to make his kill*

ebwop

[Albert B. Rampage]

Riabi needs to kill tonight to equalize, no matter what alignment we lynch today. Odd numbered town is better for us than even number.

[Drezi]

ABR, let's say I believe you're town. You do the same too. Who is scum then?

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's Lalendra. Are you trying to tell me like all the people who have been in the spotlight are more suspicious than all the ones that most people have forgotten are in the game?

[Drezi]

You're townreading TTH. Would it be Lalendra House Nacho then? Do you think Lalendra could be scum with ika after voting him 3 days straight?

I hate going after players like her, because they are so easy to make everyone jump on due to noone having strong opinions for/against them either.

[Drezi]

So I'd much rather go after possible partners. We lynch lalendra she flips town, and Riabi has no idea whatsoever who to kill, because noone really would look out of place jumping on her wagon, she didn't really attack anyone etc.

[Drezi]

I hope I managed to explain now why I don't think lynching her is a good idea, even if you think she's scum.

[Riabi]

So I'd much rather go after possible partners.

What is it with this argument? Why do you not lynch the most likely scum target 100% of the time?

[Drezi]

I don't think she's the most likely scum in the first place, and flipping her would be minimal info for you to figure out who's scum and shoot correctly.

[Drezi]

This is endgame, and we're not trying to guess who is most likely to be scum individually without regards to any assiciations, and your vigshot the following night etc.

[Drezi]

So really everyone should come up with more detailed plans, not just "hey I think X is scummy". Who are probable to be in a scumteam together based on interactions, and who are the common figures in the scumteams you find plausible, and lynch there etcetc.

[Drezi]

Scum doesn't like to do this, because it could implicate their scummates should they end up being lynched, or also if their plan goes through and it ends up lynching town. Scum just wants to lynch someone without pointing at anyone else, someone who can be lynched without exposing themselves too much as a team.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That kind of discussion is meaningless.

My three are x, y and z.

z: I'm not scum! What's your scumteam if I'm town?

Well then it would be x, y, and v.

v: I'm not scum, it's W!

Pointless arguing. There's no plan. This isn't fruitful.

[Drezi]

If I say Sakura Metal and pisskop are scum together, go lynch them guys, then Sakura and Metal won't like my plan, even if they found pisskop scummy. If I just said hey look pisskop is scummy, lynch him! They might very well go ahead. From scum's perspective this way it's so much easier to push through a mislynch by singling out someone without calling out anyone else as scum.

[Drezi]

And we pretty much need to lynch correctly from now on, so we really need to agree about 2 people at least, and decide who we lynch of those AFTERWARDS. So scum can't just say hey my buddy is very scummy, but we lynch X first kk.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I see what you're saying but I disagree. It's not that town can't do that, it's that it's cocky. And I know that I'll change my opinion nine times after a flip before I decide who I want to vote next. Why are you asking people to say something they don't really mean? If they genuine don't know what the three scum are, why are you trying to force them to invent it?

[Riabi]

If I say Sakura Metal and pisskop are scum together, go lynch them guys, then Sakura and Metal won't like my plan, even if they found pisskop scummy. If I just said hey look pisskop is scummy, lynch him! They might very well go ahead. From scum's perspective this way it's so much easier to push through a mislynch by singling out someone without calling out anyone else as scum.

So, if I then come and say pisskop, Metal and drezi are scum - Metal and drezi would not like that plan. Where does that get us?

[Drezi]

If they have no idea who the scum are, then they should have no problem agreeing on more than 1 they wouldn't mind lynched, since only themselves are conftown! scum has a harder time agreeing since they don't want any of their partners included, so it's more likely that we reach a protown majority agreement and disregarding what scum says. And the 2 people next day doesn't necessarily need to include the one left alive, based on the flip.

[Riabi]

Sorry, but that plan just doesn't make sense. Especially now that you've spelled it out for them.

[House]

I'm bored.

VOTE: ika

Somebody do something.