OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)

[Superhans]

It looks like Kop is painted into a corner.
His scumread Gamma claimed a town PR but his vote is still parked there.
The wagon on TB has wound down so it's pointless for him to jump there now.
He sees people nibbling at me but not voting. Desperado doesn't seem viable, most people are townreading {Superhans, Realeo, Dunnstral} and Regfan is conf.

Plenty of scum motivation for waiting it out instead of digging a deeper hole by trying to press something that is implausible.

VOTE: Kop

Want you to know that I'm not townreading you right now Davesaz. You're trying to use the fact that people

aren't

voting you as proof you're not Scum. I'm not however scum reading to nearly the same extent as a player like kop.

VOTE: Kop

[Superhans]

Uh, Antihero was traitor? not a good?

Surely if the two of you are suggesting that thinkbig moved off of antihero because he knew he was the traitor, you can point to where thinkbig would have known that antihero was a traitor? Some kind of tell, or soft, or the way Ah acted?

Coming out hard on a maf buddy doesn't scream "traitor" to me.

I think I may have misread the whole Mafia PM's.

So on that said, thinkbig may be town after all. After rereading the PM's set out in first page, I don't forsee a traitor coming out that hard, now that I know the traitor only knows who the the mafia are, but mafia don't know who the traitor is.

How did you think Traitor played beforehand? Surely if you thought the mafia knew who the traitor was, there would be no difference between the two roles (beyond Traitor not being able to communicate).

[Superhans]

I find that hard to believe Kop given you've played this exact setup before and made the following comment in this post:

But scum don't know who the traitor is though? There is the chance that they could end up night killing him, which is a risk because it doesn't help them that way though.

I know I was a mafia traitor on another site, but ended up getting night killed by my own team mates day one, they didn't know I was the traitor.

I totally forgot that I had already researched this point and got side drawn from it.

Yes whilst I agree I have played as a traitor before, however it wasn't in this exact setup. This setup is slightly different to the one I participated on another site.

I know that you've linked me the game, but can you explain in simple simple terms how the mafia traitor role was different to the mafia traitor role in this game?

I want you to prove that your admittance that you didn't know how mafia traitor worked was genuine.

[Superhans]

[...]
And if Kop does flip scum SH deserves to be looked at.
[...]

Why?

[Superhans]

I don't care, reg. I want this dead.

yo Desperado, you're not really trying very hard to convince people. If Regfan is right, and ThinkBig did act as town, who would you want to lynch? It is likely that by the end of the day the ThinkBig wagon will not be as viable as the beginning of the day, and you'll be forced to choose a new wagon, if so who would you want to lynch?

[Superhans]

UNVOTE: Unvote
After role claim.

[Superhans]

Going back through kop, I have a difficult time believing his roleblocker claim for the following reasons:

• His dumbtell is demonstrated to be probably false. He has played this set-up before and has clearly demonstrated a knowledge of how the mafia traitor works.
  
• I can brush off forgetting about playing this past setup. I cannot, however, look past an experienced player not knowing how a role is supposed to work, especially when you can easily see it in the sample PMs.
  
• It's really convenient that the person that he claimed to have RB was the person who was NK'd (and who flipped vanilla town).

Hmm?

[Superhans]

/Headdesk. Majority of players don't alter their reads because their town reads have them, especially someone that's as inexperienced as ThingBig. This is pretty bad point given who you're talking about.

If your town read on ThinkBig boils down to "He isn't good at this game" then I feel comfortable not sheeping you on him

Regfan doesn't agree the the argument that it was a display of Scum Theatre.

[Superhans]

Readlist:
Alisae - Town
Dunnstral - Town
Realo - Town
IF ThinkBig is Town then:
Scum is within Desperado, Kop or Davesaz.

[Superhans]

However, I think that there is still a significant chance that you're wrong, Regfan, and that ThinkBig is scum. I don't like how he played D1.

[Superhans]

Fuuu forgot about Gamma.
Is gamma still playing?

[Superhans]

@Desperado

" I think the suggestion that AH was begging TH to "let it go" in 'Post 859 is absurd and think the suggestion that TB is the type of player to notice softs from a traitor to be very outlandish, I read the last comment inside the post to make more sense as AH trying to get TB in the lynch pool." - Regfan 1219

^Yo, You are D E N O U N C I N G this also, correct?

[Superhans]

he doesn't buy yours

[Superhans]

well for anyone to take you seriously you need to argue your case. Regfan currently has a more extensive case than you. So yeah a naked re-vote on ThinkBig isn't good enough anymore.

[Superhans]

yeh?

[Superhans]

You're implying I'm flip flopping?

I'm not townreading TB, but I think your scum push on him is built on no foundation at all.

[Superhans]

baby... I'm getting cold feet.

[Superhans]

so yeah actually, I don't buy your case anymore.

[Superhans]

You think I'm scum with TB? Or is TB out of the picture for now?

[Superhans]

Btw i'm revoking my town read on you desperado. I'm prick reading you.

[Superhans]

Buzzwords!

The analysis is self-evident--there is nothing in Superhans' ISO to support what he's saying right now.

M8 what do you not understand?

[Superhans]

i've read your case on TB (good shit right there), and I've read RF's (better good shit). You need to step up your game boy. No one is pushing TB apart from you, so you need to convince us.

[Superhans]

You think I'm scum with TB? Or is TB out of the picture for now?

My read on you is independent of my read on ThinkBig. He could be scum that you were bussing and now you see a way out with reg in the picture; he could be town that you were riding my coat tails to mislynch and now that reg won't let it happen you've reversing course with nothing to support it.

Either way, your progression does not come from town.

I'm not townreading ThinkBig, I'm just revoking some of my faith in you.

[Superhans]

actually quite a lot of my faith in you, unless you can convince me otherwise.

[Superhans]

/Headdesk. Majority of players don't alter their reads because their town reads have them, especially someone that's as inexperienced as ThingBig. This is pretty bad point given who you're talking about.

If your town read on ThinkBig boils down to "He isn't good at this game" then I feel comfortable not sheeping you on him

This wasn't Regfan's argument. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect you to make a convincing case on the wagon you're pushing, otherwise why bother push the wagon at all?

And then you just drop it and start voting and focusing on Kop. When did you decide that regfan's case was "more extensive" and why is it better than the one I built and you've been cheerleading all day?

I decided when I ISO'd Regfan. I voted Kop to indicate that I was off of the TB wagon and onto a more likely scum player.

I changed my mind, sorry if it is a surprise to you, but what can i say?

[Superhans]

I'm not townreading ThinkBig, I'm just revoking some of my faith in you.

So Reg's townThink case was so good that the scumThink one you'd been cheerleading all day is now complete and utter bollocks, but you also don't think ThinkBig is town?

???

Yeh, but I don't think the scum case on ThinkBig is bollocks, just I feel more confident lynching Kop today. Your latest scumpush on TB is not compelling.

[Superhans]

Yeh, but I don't think the scum case on ThinkBig is bollocks, just I feel more confident lynching Kop today. Your latest scumpush on TB is not compelling.

You still feel confident lynching a claimed roleblocker?

oh shit forgot about that claimed roleblocker thing. nah im not confident tbh.

Super unsure about Gamma, because I actually forgot to read him which is always a bad sign. I'm undecided for now.

[Superhans]

V/LA until tuesday
also intent to hammer TB

The quick hammer thing made me concerned, along eith Realeo's calling me JOAT
but I'm reconvinced now

k Gamma is V/LA, ISOing him doesn't suggest that he was playing particularily scummy after his roleclaim.

[Superhans]

I unvoted Gamma due to the roleclaim and I have unvoted Kop for the same reason. How easy would it be for scum to get away with a fakeclaim?

[Superhans]

Vanilla Town

[Superhans]

So this catch my attention....

No need for useless speculation, I will flip town and TB will flip scum. Feel free to hammer.

So AntiHuman plays the AtE card at L-1. The wagon at the L-1 was.

Antihuman ( 6 ) -

(Gamma Emerald, Desperado, ssbm_Kyouko, ThinkBig, Alisae, SuperHans)[/color]

I find it strange. AntiHuman has made a play (in my opinion) an excellent analysis (he fooled me) and push with confidence.

Why the sudden mood change from confindence to surrenderness?

I think he surrender because his scum partner is voting against him. As a mafia traitor, judging by psychological analysis, being a mafia traitor is a lonely role. Being foresaken by his partner is a lonely game.

So there are 6 people. To a certain degree.. TB is town. ssbm flipped town.

There is a minimum of 1 scum in (Gamma Emerald, Desperado, Alisae, SuperHans)

@Realo do you still believe this?

[Superhans]

TB you have not explained your interaction with AH D1.

There's not a wagon on you but seems like your V/LA and low quality content has paid off for you.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Kop

ThinkBig you haven't rebutted any accusations that your behaviour with AH D1 was scum theatre. How do you explain your flakiness?

[Superhans]

Whats your case on Kop?

[Superhans]

oh sorry

[Superhans]

We lynching Kop then?

or just gonna do nothing?

[Superhans]

Alright, here's where I'm currently at;

Town (S->W):

Realeo, Nydus, ThingBig (Gap), Gamma, Dunnstrsal, Dave

Null

: SuperHans, Desperado

Scum (S->W)

: Kop
[...]
him voting Gamma based on SSBM reasoning but not Kop is sketchy and there's a potential post from AH that makes sense signalling to both partners if Kops scum with him.

Think I've got everyone I wanted down in the thread and we've given Kop & Gamma plenty of time to get in here and contribute, wouldn't be too displeased with a hammer from hereon out; if anyone has an issue with Nydus (or anyone really) hammering they should make it known as soon as they can.

Huh, I don't really understand either of these points, can you elaborate. I think there is a 99% chance that Kop will be lynched today, and also think theres a significant chance that he'll flip scum, so I don't think it is unproductive to assume this to be the case and indulge in a bit of hypothetical.

Hypothetical:
IF Kop flips scum,

why would I be his partner?

[Superhans]

my vote on Gamma wasn't ever because he was SSBM's target at one point. I literally just say that I'm carrying out her wishes, not citing it at all being a reason.

[Superhans]

would like to see the suspect post that was targeted at me and Kop.

[Superhans]

Town (S->W): Realeo, Dunnstrsal,
Town Lean: Nydus
Null: ThinkBig, Gamma
Scum Lean: Desperado, Davesaz
Scum (S->W): Kop,

Desperado has changed because I really don't appreciate how he has been interacting with me. His push on ThinkBig is not compelling anymore, and I don't like his attitude towards Regfan.

[Superhans]

my vote on Gamma wasn't ever because he was SSBM's target at one point. I literally just say that I'm carrying out her wishes, not citing it at all being a reason.

My problem would be why keep the vote until L-2. If Gamma vote is some mini D-2 RVS, I can relate. It seems reckless to me.

Look at my interactions with Gamma beforehand.

[Superhans]

I give my reasoning. It wasn't RVS it was because at the time I felt certain he was scum (until the claim).

[Superhans]

Am i right in saying that Kop is to be lynched upon the next VC?

[Superhans]

Regfan is most likely to be NK target, so I'd like you to give us any 'last words' incase you die.

[Superhans]

Regfan is most likely to be NK target, so I'd like you to give us any 'last words' incase you die.

If Gamma's claim is true, then wouldn't he be the NK target over regfan?

True... We.really should have waited for Gamma to leave VLA before hammering.

[Superhans]

I see no reason for Gamma to have to make a fakeclaim, I don't think he should be fairly town read for today.

[Superhans]

Vote: ThinkBig

We are doing it my way today Reg.

M8 what if ur scum?

[Superhans]

Desperado y do you think you are in a position to lead. You're the last person I want to lead right now.

[Superhans]

I see no reason for Gamma to have to make a fakeclaim, I don't think he should be fairly town read for today.

What do you mean

I think both Kop and Gamma were telling the truth.

[Superhans]

About their roles.

[Superhans]

The way ThinkBig plays is very annoying and I don't think it's that helpful for town either. Kinda flaky, and insubstantial.
HOWEVER
Explains his weird behaviour D1 and I think that he is probably town.

@ThinkBig
Hit me up with some game threads when you played Town, and some games you played scum.

[Superhans]

@Desperado,
Has Kop flipping changed your read on ThinkBig at all?

[Superhans]

I see no reason for Gamma to have to make a fakeclaim, I don't think he should be fairly town read for today.

What do you mean

I think both Kop and Gamma were telling the truth.

About their roles.

Considering they're both dead it would seem so

In other news: Has dumb telling gone too far?

Fuck. Sorry.

[Superhans]

The way ThinkBig plays is very annoying and I don't think it's that helpful for town either. Kinda flaky, and insubstantial.
HOWEVER
Explains his weird behaviour D1 and I think that he is probably town.

Elaborate "his weird behaviour D1"

Flipping from AH to Dunnstral and effectively divorcing himself from his 'biggest scumread'

[Superhans]

Are you Merkans? Why are you awake 5 am? When someone makes dumb post, I classify that "losing brain quality over insomnia" or "just drank too much"

It's 11:00 am where I am. It was a genuine fuck up on my behalf. A NAI brain retardation moment.

[Superhans]

His play is consistent with his play D1, so likely he is an awkward town player rather than mastermind scum.

[Superhans]

UNVOTE: Desperado
VOTE: Superhans

As an ISO read, Hans is worse than desperado

What specifically in my ISO?

[Superhans]

VOTE: Desperado

[Superhans]

Desperado when you counter scum attack me I'd also like to know who your other scum read is and why.

[Superhans]

Only players I am comfortable following today are Regfan and Realo.

[Superhans]

Hmm? Desperados case has been that we should lynch TB. If I'm wrong please link when Desperado said otherwise.

[Superhans]

@Davesaz,
Why aren't you commenting mate? Your last post was almost 3 days ago.
You're clearly online, you've commented today already.
I can understand that laziness may cause town to not post, but its really really not helping us.

[Superhans]

1. Mafia selected 0 Additional PR's, Kop is scum. In this instance Gamma & Realeo are confirmed town.

I don't follow this - how would scum Kop confirm Realeo as town?

^ Correct but this is also possible WIFOM positioning Gamma for a lynch if not killed.

These are prod dodges right?

[Superhans]

VOTE: Desperado

This feels very opportunistic. Why did you go from voting Dave to Desperado?

You think voting Desperado is easy?

[Superhans]

UNVOTE: Desperado
VOTE: Superhans

As an ISO read, Hans is worse than desperado

What specifically in my ISO?

answer this plz.

[Superhans]

bullshit that you skimmed my iso in two minutes, just say that you're chatting shit and try to rejustify your vote on me.

[Superhans]

also explain why re-reading my iso made me flip from Desperado to me.

[Superhans]

y tho?

[Superhans]

Desperado y do you think you are in a position to lead. You're the last person I want to lead right now.

I couldn't care less what you want.

You're making this relationship more toxic.

[Superhans]

A nasty relationship goals.

[Superhans]

y tho?

Because your entire demeanor regarding his lunch andy case changed when reg replaced in and started WKing think but even though you're sheeped his case you still wouldn't call Think town. It was all terribly scummy.

felt that your demeanor regardign Regfan questioning your logic was scummy.

[Superhans]

The way ThinkBig plays is very annoying and I don't think it's that helpful for town either. Kinda flaky, and insubstantial.
HOWEVER
Explains his weird behaviour D1 and I think that he is probably town.

@ThinkBig
Hit me up with some game threads when you played Town, and some games you played scum.

Revoking my town read of ThinkBig.

The stuff he posted after this really isnt from a town mindset.

[Superhans]

One Scum within:
{ThinkBig Desperado}

[Superhans]

y tho?

Because your entire demeanor regarding his lunch andy case changed when reg replaced in and started WKing think but even though you're sheeped his case you still wouldn't call Think town. It was all terribly scummy.

y ThinkBig?

[Superhans]

@Realo,
I'd like to hear it from Desperado first.
Not because i dont value your content, but I'm fairly sure you're town, so its more important to hear it from Desperado.

[Superhans]

Also Realo why do you not think Desperado could be scum?

[Superhans]

Elevator pitch me ThinkBig.
Desperado first (hopefully)
but i want everyones case.

[Superhans]

R U D E B O Y

[Superhans]

nah i dont want to look at his iso, i want to hear it in a new post, and in short.

[Superhans]

i want to hear it again bby. new words

[Superhans]

Desperado acting like a cunt is unnecessary and isn't really compelling me to follow you.

[Superhans]

I'm going to ask you one final time, and I don't mind if you want to be rude to me, and maybe post a degrading meme or something, because its not like im going to go away and cry into my pillow until i run out of tears.
If you don't feel like summarising your case for me, I'm sure another player will ask on my behalf:

I want you to tell me why you're voting ThinkBig. Doesn't even have to be much, maybe just 1 sentence if that is all you can be bothered to give.

[Superhans]

I am not counting on your support.

Lol you gonna exclude me because you're confident I'm scum?

[Superhans]

oh and i want your answer to be in new words, like dont just copy and paste that enormous post from early D1, the thing i kept on copy and pasting, iv read that like 5 times already. I want you to summarise.

[Superhans]

early D2

[Superhans]

Lol you gonna exclude me because you're confident I'm scum?

I mean that's part of it. The other part is you betrayed my trust yesterday and your progression didn't make any sense from a town perspective, so even if I didn't think you were scum, I still wouldn't be counting on, or courting, your support.

you weren't making any sense yesterday, you were completely disregarding Regfans critism of your logic.

[Superhans]

I want you to tell me why you're voting ThinkBig. Doesn't even have to be much, maybe just 1 sentence if that is all you can be bothered to give.

I am voting ThinkBig because he is scum.

yeh no shit, but y?

[Superhans]

can you just reemphasise your case on ThinkBig simply?

[Superhans]

so nothing ThinkBig has done since early D2 has changed your opinion on him?

[Superhans]

UNVOTE: Desperado

[Superhans]

Torn between you or TB.

[Superhans]

Davesaz maybe.

[Superhans]

Okay I know you scum read me hard and want me lynched, but let's say hypothetically I could somehow prove beyond all doubt I was town,
Who would be the second scum?

[Superhans]

Desperado the argument you made on TB early D2 didn't make sense - ScumThinkBig wouldn't know that AH is traitor.

[Superhans]

I do admit my case on TB may have been a bit overblown but I wanted people to see the parallel between this and Gamma's wagon.
I've seen few interesting reactions, gonna elaborate tomorrow (this is the part where TB should shout: excuses!).

look at this

TraitorAH is basically begging Think to just let it go.

@ThinkBig

Out of 4 players on the Gammagon:

K O P
D E S P E R A D O
R E A L O
T H I N K B I G
S U P E R H A N S

¿Why Did He Go After You?

Not sure TBH. Possibly because I was the one that got the wagon moving. In any case, the wagon and my vote did exactly what I wanted it to do.

I do admit my case on TB may have been a bit overblown[/quote

You no say?

I've seen few interesting reactions, gonna elaborate tomorrow (this is the part where TB should shout: excuses!).

Excuses!!

Just re read the last few pages.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I really don't like his defense of antihuman. It reeks the smell of buddying.

I'll provide my full reads and more information on Sunday night after work. Been quite busy with the holiday.

Here are my reads so far:

Algebra

- Confirmed town. I so wish he would contribute to the game and be more active. There's no way I'd be TRing him if he wasn't the IC.

Alisae

- Strong town lean. I like his analysis so far and he seems to be making a genuine attempt to scum hunt and solve the game.

ssbm_Kyouko

- Null lean.

Davesaz

- Null town.

Kop - Null

Gamma - Null

Superhans - Null

Desperado

- Null scum. I really don't like how he buddied up to Antihuman. His defense screamed that he was buddying him.

Realeao

- Scum lean. I don't like how he constantly asks "why" and asks people to keep explaining things that they already have. He asks those types of questions in a scummy way.

Antihuman

- I really don't like how he has been throwing shades everywhere. His case against me was very bad and felt contrived. I also really don't like how he tried to derail the Gamma wagon. If gamma flips scum, I'm fairly confident he is scum as well.

I think that's everyone. Let me know if I missed someone.

And he does! Even tho he lists AH as his biggest scumread in his next post.

^This is about the point where AH decided to pivot and really buss ThinkBig. Think posts another reads list that AH bashes as well, and he then he starts to link Think and Alisae really hard:

Lol this readlist's such bullshit

Revised Read List

Algebra

- Confirmed town. I so wish he would contribute to the game and be more active. There's no way I'd be TRing him if he wasn't the IC.

<--- Completely unnecessary comment. Trying to appear better by having one extra scumread

Alisae

- By far my biggest town read. He shows genuine interest in the game and shows genuine scum hunting.

<--- because she scumreads me too, how surprising

Superhans

- Town lean. I disagree with his logic, but I understand where he is coming from

<--- aka "I know his reasons for scumreading me are valid but I'll just wait until he gets bored and goes away"

ssbm_Kyouko - Null town.

<--- in your previous readlist, she was a "null lean", which looks like a hilarious slip. You don't wanna look like you have too many nulls but you have no reasons for townreading her.

Davesaz - Null town.

<--- for what? He's defended me and he's voted Desperado for logic which you called flatout wrong!

Kop - Null

<--- what's your opinion on Real's case on Kop?

Gamma - Null

<--- but he's my partner, member?!

Desperado

- Null, leans scum. I don't really buy the traitor theory nor do I buy the logic behind it.

<--- Why the fuck are you scumleaning on him then?! Leaving your options open? You should be scumreading people who started pushing him for wrong reasons instead! (including your strongest tr, Alisae...)

Realeao

- Scum lean. 561 screams opportunistic and sheeping. I also don't like how he is constantly flipping his reads and can't seem to make up his mind.

<--- How the hell is he sheeping when he's provided valid reasons for scumreading you, just like Superhans. How come you don't "disagree with his logic but see where he's coming from" here? Being undecided isn't a scumtell too. You've scumread me for tunnelling, which is a complete opposite! You also haven't addressed his points...

Antihuman

- Continuing to throw shades and continuing

<--- what the hell does that even mean? If scumminess was the color black, there wouldn't even be a shadow visible on you, smh

Honest to god, I wasn't really up to lynching you when I entered the game but now I seriously have reasons to see you hang, there are just too many discrepancies. I also wouldn't be surprised at Tb-Alisae team. Both are pushing me on bullshit reasoning and townread each other based on thin air, looks like a well coordinated last minute mislynch push.

zZz just lynch me already, I can't take this united scumfront pounding at my will to do something productive

Finally, this:

Yeah it seems like really a great play to get into the game, decide you wanna tunnel your partner for no particular reason instead of choosing a safe target and try to blend in with deadline slowly approaching and risk getting both players lynched as the only viable wagons wtf I'm a much better scum player than that, don't insult me

Looks like frustrated scum reaching for WIFOM.

Then why would AH beg him to let it go?

[Superhans]

"And he does! Even tho he lists AH as his biggest scumread in his next post. "

Whats the scum motivation of letting go of a player who is getting lynched, and you're justified to lynch, who you think is town.

[Superhans]

Although there is one plot hole in your reasoning, Desperado.

How does, ThinkBig exactly catch the signal "So you're traitor, AntiHuman? Sorry. I would back off."

If someone replaced in to a game and immediately started creating a completely bullshit case against me as scum, and then a couple pages later was like "LOL just kidding, that was made up just to prove that you could do that against anyone and at least it got a bunch of reactions! hahaha" I think I would get the point and back off.

Don't you?

Reminder that AH himself said he wasn't bussing to begin with, he made a BS case up on "someone random" (hinthint) just to prove that the Gamma wagon was trash. Then AH's wagon didn't go away and ThinkBig kept posting scummy shit so AH pivoted and started pushing even harder.

^This is a scum on scum progression.

You did explain it clearly, sorry for not picking up on this.

[Superhans]

I respect that logic, but im not 100% convinced by it.

[Superhans]

Here is where I am at right now:

Town: {Real, nydush}
Lean town: {Dunnestral}
Null: {Dave}
Scum: {Desperado, Superhans}

I am confident that there is a scum between desperado and Hans and would preferably like to lynch one of those today.

okay if there is one scum in
{Desperado, Superhans}
Who is the partner if it is:
Superhans

Who is the partner if it is:
Desperado

[Superhans]

Davesaz maybe.

Why can't we vote davesaz, then?

Go ahead, fine by me.

[Superhans]

I'd quite like a lynch within:
{Desperado or ThinkBig}

[Superhans]

Superhans is consistently a late entrant on big wagons, other than wagons on ThinkBig. The only exception to this rule that I see is being early on Gamma d1, but that was after being 3rd on that wagon and two left it.

My lateness to the AntiHuman wagon was because I wasn't that convinced AH was town.

Imho this alone is.n exceptionally poor.reason to want to lynch me. Hopefully other players will agree with me.

[Superhans]

I mean I wasn't convinced AH was scum if you read the posts leading up to my AH vote you'll see why I'm last.

[Superhans]

I think Davesaz is being opportunistic, I'm an easier player to push than either Desperado or ThinkBig.

[Superhans]

Okay taking that last post back, I had thought Dave had voted for me.

[Superhans]

Dave what is your read on:
T H I N K B I G
D E S P E R A D O
?

[Superhans]

A N Y O N E not scumreading either TB or Desperado?

[Superhans]

@Realo,
Do you think TB's chronic lack of content and originality is necessarily scum? What else do you base your scum read on?

[Superhans]

I think that TBs playstyles is difficult to evaluate, as his low effort low content posts ooze scum.

[Superhans]

@ThinkBig
Hit me up with some game threads when you played Town, and some games you played scum.

Scum Games

Micro 672 (Hydra with Pine)
Open 661

These are my only scum games.

Town Games

Micro 657
Micro 663
Mini Normal 1862 (one of my better games. Replaced late into the game)

All my other games are on my Wiki page.

As town he has been lynched D1 before. Idk y but I'd be hesitant to assume not defending himself makes him scum.

[Superhans]

[...]
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt instead of power lynching you. I suggest you use that opportunity to up your game.

Lol I can see scum motivation in this post. Threatening Dunnstral for making a case on you. Id like to see you to go ahead and tell me

how

you'd power lynch Dunnstral.

[Superhans]

Okay I know you scum read me hard and want me lynched, but let's say hypothetically I could somehow prove beyond all doubt I was town,
Who would be the second scum?

@ Desperado

[Superhans]

@ Desperado

That's not how it works. Must you make me repeat myself with every question you ask?

I didn't answer...

[Superhans]

It's not a hugely important question so I don't care that much if you don't want to answer it, but it'll help me make a read on you.

[Superhans]

So yeah, outside of me and Gb, who could be scum?

[Superhans]

*TB

[Superhans]

@ Desperado

That's not how it works. Must you make me repeat myself with every question you ask?

I didn't answer...

You didn't answer I mean

(I'll try and make less typos in future)

[Superhans]

V/LA 24 hours

Potential confbias, need to wind out.

While I'm winding out, let me express my self.

The reason why I am having hard time to townread ThinkBig is those who townread TB, didn't explain why TB is town, considering D3 interaction.Most people who townread ThinkBig mentioning reasoning from D2 and not mention D3.

Since you didn't consider D3 interaction, your townread at ThinkBig is set at stone?

Is this for me?
I did revoke my town read on TB specifically because of his D3 content.

My town read on TB early D3 is in my ISO.

[Superhans]

Out of topic. Superhans. Why you asked for an elevator pitch? I am still flustered.

Well if u want to lynch TB, pitch it to me.

[Superhans]

To be more specific, I don't know what is your end goal for asking the elevator pitch. My impression is "for luls", but if you do it "for luls", why are you making a serious fuss on Desperado?

Not for luls at all.

[Superhans]

@Realo is this the question that you're accusing TB of avoiding?

Here is where I am at right now:

Town: {Real, nydush}
Lean town: {Dunnestral}
Null: {Dave}
Scum: {Desperado, Superhans}

I am confident that there is a scum between desperado and Hans and would preferably like to lynch one of those today.

okay if there is one scum in
{Desperado, Superhans}
Who is the partner if it is:
Superhans

Who is the partner if it is:
Desperado

[Superhans]

He has not spent the last 2 hours talking about ThinkBig, since early D2 he hasnt reiterated his case that much at all.

Out of topic. Superhans. Why you asked for an elevator pitch? I am still flustered.

Well if u want to lynch TB, pitch it to me.

Can I convince you to read Desperado's iso instead of asking him to make an evelator pitch?

Look at page 73, I pull out Desperados case (that he made in page 35 and page 36). I mean thats quite a while ago would you not agree? Thought by asking for an elevator pitch, he could accommodate for the 35 pages after his last post.

[Superhans]

Also your comparison to political debates is silly. Politicians are always being asked absolutely enormous questions which they have to boil down into 30 second sound bites.

[Superhans]

Ah. So it's a case of bad word choice then. You shouldn't say the word Elevator Pitch since the connotation of "Elevator Pitch" is tell everything in short time (ie. "Tell me your startup idea in 30 seconds".) You should have said "Is there anything new or update about your read)

Does "Elevator Pitch" has a different meaning in U.K. Like "Your idea sounds interesting" means "Your idea sucks"

Serious question. I find UK's culture confusing.

No it's exactly the same meaning as the US. I wanted an elevator pitch, E.g. Desperado to be like I want to lynch TB for x, y and z.

Also I'd like to talk to you about Brexit for sure, but maybe not right now cos it'll probably clog up the thread - look forward to it post game

[Superhans]

Idk about TB and Desperado.

Thought Desperado was scum for trying to mis-lynched innocent TB, but now I'm not so sure.

[Superhans]

[...]
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt instead of power lynching you. I suggest you use that opportunity to up your game.

Lol I can see scum motivation in this post. Threatening Dunnstral for making a case on you. Id like to see you to go ahead and tell me

how

you'd power lynch Dunnstral.

No case can be made, because there is no possible scum motivation in anything I've posted.

Then why did you you say you'd give Dunnstral the benefit of the doubt instead of power lynching when there was no way to lynch Dunnstral anyway?

[Superhans]

SH, I think either you are bad at estimating someone's patience or

you are a really really really patient person in real life

What do you for living?

Study.

[Superhans]

Davesaz who'dya think is scum?

[Superhans]

So yeah, outside of me and Gb, who could be scum?

I don't entertain hypotheticals like that. There are two scum left, I don't need 3 scum reads

if i could undeniably prove that i were town, who would your 3rd scum read be?

[Superhans]

I've just been consistently ignored since about the time regfan replaced in.

Maybe because you didn't sufficiently attempt to rebut Regfan argument. Please stop making yourself a victim.

[Superhans]

I think that Davesaz is likely to be scum. His push on me feels forced. Think that his point on having nothing scummy in his ISO was really stupid and didn't like him suggesting to Dunnstral that he'd give him benefit of doubt rather than 'power lynching' him.

What even is power lynching btw, it's not in the wiki. I assume it means pushing someone into a lynch?

[Superhans]

I still think Kop is real but any cache I had in this game evaporated a while ago so w/e

Kop must have delighted yesterday when you made such a passionate attempt to convince us he was town.

[Superhans]

Desperado is not a bad plauet. I'm sure of that much. Played with him before.

[Superhans]

I still think Kop is real but any cache I had in this game evaporated a while ago so w/e

Kop must have delighted yesterday when you made such a passionate attempt to convince us he was town.

Since British people are poetic and poem are enemy of foreign speaker, your point is?

I'm being sarky, I don't think Desperado did a very good job preventing Kops mislynch.

@desperado
D2 How sure exactly were u that Kop wasn't scum?

[Superhans]

Link them m8 I must have missed them

[Superhans]

Would like to see ur posts resisting the Kop wagon.
On phone rn so difficult to search ur ISO.

[Superhans]

Players:

01. Superhans
02. Desperado

MariaR

03. davesaz
04. ThinkBig
05. Kop
06. Dunnstral
07. Regfan

algebra

08. Antihuman

ReubenWasFine

09. ssbm_Kyouko
10. Realeo
11. Gamma Emerald
12. nydushermain

Alisae

Secret Agent Jin

Alive:

Spoiler:

Superhans
Desperado
davesaz
ThinkBig
Dunnstral
Regfan
Realeo
nydushermain

Dead:

Spoiler:

Antihuman

(Mafia Traitor)

was lynched Day 1.
ssbm_Kyouko

(Vanilla Townie)

was killed Night 1.
Kop

(Roleblocker)

was lynched Day 2.
Gamma Emerald

(Goon Cop)

was killed Night 2.

Flips:

Spoiler:

D1/N1

|

D2/N2

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-04 21:45:02) (Day 3)

Yes I agree with the fact you did try pretty hard to defend Kop.

[Superhans]

Didn't mean to quote that.

[Superhans]

VOTE: ThinkBig

[Superhans]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 8&sr=posts

Don't comment on the content (not allowed to talk.about ongoing games etc) but look at the times.

TB y u lurking?

[Superhans]

TB has commented multiple times today <60mins before this post was made yet he hasn't commented for 1 day 22 hours.

TB u have a wagon ( the largest?) On you right now, this is.your time to be contributing to the max.

Only looked at TB activity cos there hasn't been a post from anyone for 12 hours.

[Superhans]

Y is it misreppy? Also I'm not explicitly saying that I think his lurking is scum indicatively. For the recorded I think it is NAI for now, but he needs to get in here.

[Superhans]

* indicative not indicatively

[Superhans]

Will post when I get home. Just needed to take a day off.

K no worries, although when you get home you do actually need to do what you've said you'll do.

[Superhans]

Self fulfilling prophecy mate.

Also I'm open to lynching a player who is proven scummier, Dunnstral still town reading you and so is Regfan (I think).

If you are town, the worst thing you could do would be to give up.

[Superhans]

Nooooo don't self hammer. If are town fight hard.

[Superhans]

@ Desperado who are your top Town reads? + Why?
(Excluding Regfan (obvs) and also Realo (to me he is as good as conf town) ).

[Superhans]

Also if u try and give me lip I'll fucking lose it.

[Superhans]

Davesaz who'dya think is scum?

I tend toward ThinkBig, but I'm worried about it being too easy.

And who is the partner? Who is.scum if TB flips town?

[Superhans]

Here is where I am at right now:

Town: {Real, nydush}
Lean town: {Dunnestral}
Null: {Dave}
Scum: {Desperado, Superhans}

I am confident that there is a scum between desperado and Hans and would preferably like to lynch one of those today.

okay if there is one scum in
{Desperado, Superhans}
Who is the partner if it is:
Superhans

Who is the partner if it is:
Desperado

[Superhans]

Here is where I am at right now:

Town: {Real, nydush}
Lean town: {Dunnestral}
Null: {Dave}
Scum: {Desperado, Superhans}

I am confident that there is a scum between desperado and Hans and would preferably like to lynch one of those today.

Also is this still valid? Only asking because there has been quite a bit of content since, and your reads may have updated.

[Superhans]

Am I the only one who is not hard townreading nydush?

Ny seems kinda obvs town to me. Y r u not town reading?

[Superhans]

lol Davesaz has less comments than Gamma, and Gamma lurked for like 50% of D2.

Sad.

[Superhans]

obvs quality is more important than number of posts, but i don't think Dave has been producing anything of quality either.

[Superhans]

Am I the only one who is not hard townreading nydush?

Ny seems kinda obvs town to me. Y r u not town reading?

help? second opinion?

hmm what do you mean by this?

[Superhans]

DAVESAZ IF YOU CAN READ THIS PLEASE COME HOME
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 4&sr=posts

[Superhans]

idk ur online
:z

[Superhans]

Once I get back home from synagogue, I'll update my reads.

how was the synagogue TB?

[Superhans]

Y
I S
T H E
G A M E
S O
V E R Y
D E A D?

[Superhans]

Davesaz who'dya think is scum?

I tend toward ThinkBig, but I'm worried about it being too easy.

And who is the partner? Who is.scum if TB flips town?

[Superhans]

First question most important, who is partner?

[Superhans]

just sitting here

waiting to lynch scum

In the meantime you can answer my question for you:
Excluding Reg & Realo

Who r your top Town reads? + Y?

[Superhans]

just sitting here

waiting to lynch scum

In the meantime you can answer my question for you:
Excluding Reg & Realo

Who r your top Town reads? + Y?

Didn't he answer it?

No he did not. Possible he missed it rather than deliberately choosing not to answer.

[Superhans]

Desperado you have nothing to quote. Answer the question for the first time.

[Superhans]

It's a possibility easy question which would take town like 20 seconds to do.

[Superhans]

Meant to say piss easy

[Superhans]

just sitting here

waiting to lynch scum

In the meantime you can answer my question for you:
Excluding Reg & Realo

Who r your top Town reads? + Y?

[Superhans]

Lol ur actually struggling to fabricate an answer. I respect the amount of effort you're putting in to not answer a question that should really be uncontroversial.

VOTE: Desperado

You have definitely not mentioned who you think town is.

[Superhans]

Never =/= multiple times.

[Superhans]

1) I have stated

multiple times

what my reads are and why.
2) I'm not going to play your dumb game of "who is the top town outside of your real top town?" because all that does is benefit scum.

Point 2 contradicts point 1 loool.

If you aren't gonna reveal cos it helps scum, y have u already revealed your top Town reads multiple times already?

[Superhans]

You basically have two options. You can ISO me and ctrl+f "town" and then just see what you find. Or you can ctrl+f the player list individually and find my read on them that way.

Your call.

I'm on my phone can u do it for me?

[Superhans]

If you aren't gonna reveal cos it helps scum, y have u already revealed your top Town reads multiple times already?

Wrong. I have stated who I think is town multiple times.

Top town reads = players you town read.

[Superhans]

I'm still waiting

[Superhans]

Seriously Reg, I know you're reading my posts so why are you just making this shit up???

I have made substantial comments on every slot. I have good reasons for town and scum reading everyone alive.

I told you guys Kop was real yesterday, and then the other claimed PR got shot. Literally nothing has changed from the middle of D2.

I don't see this reading your posts. I flat out don't.

You have made no mention of Nydus today and minimal mention of him yesterday.
You have made no real mention of Realeo today at all.
You have very little thoughts on Dunn out in the thread at the moment.
You have limited thoughts on Dave.

The only people I can agree you've elaborated somewhat into today is ThingBig & SuperHans.

Desperado
Open up
It's time to put your cards on the table. Where you at?

[Superhans]

just sitting here

waiting to lynch scum

In the meantime you can answer my question for you:
Excluding Reg & Realo

Who r your

top

Town reads? + Y?

[Superhans]

If nothings changed from pages of content then you're a shit player.

Also I'm on my phone so I need YOU to hmu with your multiple.town reads and completely undermine me

[Superhans]

I think you're a good player (have said so previously) so I don't u derstand your motivation behind evading my very very basic question.

I don't buy that it's cos I hurt ur feelings.

[Superhans]

I only want ur town players.

I'll do mine in 20 seconds:
Dunnstral, cos his reads seem genuine
Ny, like the posts hes made today
Realo + Regfan obvs.

[Superhans]

The

only reason

you would need to know who my top town are outside of my top town is to help inform your nightkills.

Lol if I was gonna do that wouldn't I just log onto a PC and search ur ISO for your multiple town reads? You claim you've ready made all ur town reads and they're all within easy reach.

[Superhans]

1) I have stated

multiple times

what my reads are and why.
2) I'm not going to play your dumb game of "who is the top town outside of your real top town?" because all that does is benefit scum.

W H I C H
O N E?

[Superhans]

Top town read town read I don't fucking care. I didn't even know there was a difference and IV made it clear I don't think there is.

Who is town + y?

[Superhans]

Who do you think is town? Y?

[Superhans]

Ny and Dunnstral, can you see the value in knowing Desperados town reads? If so can you ask on my behalf.

[Superhans]

Ur both scummy AF, but ur not scum together.

Not that difficult to understand?

[Superhans]

I like the town read Desperado made of Dunnstral, some very agreeable points. I didn't like the Davesaz's last comment saying that me asking that question to Desperado was scummy. Think your logic to scum read me is fairly contrived and I want you to know that I think you're most likely scum.

@ThinkBig

Once I get back home from synagogue, I'll update my reads.

Don't say things like this if you don't actually end up doing so.
Why is Dunnstral scum? Who could be his partner?

[Superhans]

ThingBig - Dave

ThingBig - Dunnstral

ThingBig - Desperado

Dave - Dunnstral
Dave - Desperado
Dunnstral - Desperado

methink

I endorse this product (as you'd put it.)
Not so sure about the Dunnstral theories, haven't seen anything particularly scummy his ISO.

[Superhans]

Also y is ThinkBig Dave tean an impossibility?

[Superhans]

No. No one should self vote.

Be home in about two hours. Should respond more then

Dude u make more posts saying that you

will

post than actual legitimate posts.

[Superhans]

DAY 3 VC 002

ThinkBig ( 2 ) -

(Desperado, Realeo)

davesaz ( 1 ) -

(Dunnstral)

Desperado ( 1 ) -

(Superhans)

Not Voting ( 4 ) -

(davesaz, ThinkBig, Regfan, nydushermain)

Five to lynch.
(expired on 2017-02-04 21:45:02) remain until deadline.

Half the playerbase haven't commited themselves to voting. Now is the time people (although make sure to check and double check if u may be L2/1

[Superhans]

Reg, I think we just read this game in fundamentally different ways.

How on earth does ThinkBig voting Dunnstral for bullshit while maintaining Antihuman as his #1 scum read point to them not being buddies? It was clear that he never believed in that Dunn vote and never planned on seeing it through anywhere. He even leaves Dunnstral out of his next post, a full reads list, and assigns his "scummy behavior" to me instead.

And before you say anything, I still think Dunnstral is town, I just think you have been making errors in your analysis all game and you aren't adjusting. This is two days in a row you've removed one of my scumreads from your scum pool entirely and I don't get.

Me?
Your push on me me is as hard as a wet noodle.

I agree that this game is in need to a flip but I don't think we should be rushing anything quite yet.

[Superhans]

At this point I don't give a fuck what you do. Lynch me if you'd like to, or lynch someone else. This game needs a flip, now.

Indignation station.

Really though what is the point in whining like a baby, it's not like you're even the biggest wagon and you're acting as though you're verging on giving up.

AtE, but I think you're appealing to the emotion of disgust rather than sympathy.

[Superhans]

I mean easy in the sense of obvious, not in the sense of no resistance.

Why is ThinkBig 'obvious', I'm finding greading TB far from obvious anything.

[Superhans]

What hes seeing is that im thoroughly disgusted that im even a topic of discussion. This is town me. There is so much difference between this and any game ive been scum that you must be blind to not see it. Either drop the subject of me scum, or lynch me and probably lose.

Dude u saying you're town doesn't make you town. Also your indignation is a huge turn off.

Try and solve the game genuinely if you don't want to be lynched.

[Superhans]

I mean easy in the sense of obvious, not in the sense of no resistance.

Why is ThinkBig 'obvious', I'm finding reading TB far from obvious anything.

[Superhans]

Davesaz ansser my question

[Superhans]

Also Davesaz how would you feel with lynching Desperado? Happy? Sad?

[Superhans]

I am pissed off that TB isn't answering questions....

[Superhans]

Also fuck off with the whole 'top town read', I said that I just wanted town reads which he absolutely did not give me.

[Superhans]

his town explanation of dunsntral was a result of Regfan, not me.
He completley disregarded me.

[Superhans]

okay i have had up until now a fairly strong town read on Dunnstral. I've been aware that you've been making an extended argument on Dunnstral but haven't actually had a chance to properly evaluate what your claims are or whether they are valid. I will do so now, (maybe it'll take a little while though cos I may need to ISO you and also ISO Dunnstral), but I'll let you know what I think about it by tonight or by tomorrow night at the latest.