Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[Alisae]

VOTE: abr
Excited to play with u again!

[Alisae]

Hello Everyone.
I have been thinking about the best way to investigate the town since getting my Role Message.
I think it is best if we all focus our Votes onto one Player, except for the last vote that would Kill them. Then when someone has learned that a different Player has become a better choice, they will move their Vote and we will know things have become Serious.
The problem is how to pick the Player.

2 -humaneatingmonkey
3 -Cycle Men
4 -Albert B. Rampage
5 -votato
6 -Alisae
7 -Deimos27
8 -Elements
9 -Green Crayons
10 -Isis
11 -NorweiganboyEE
12 -Looker
13 -Firebringer

To help I used Dice. I did not throw them and adjusted them with my fingers until they showed the Value I wanted. Here is a picture to prove that I adjusted them with my fingers until I got the Value I wanted:

According to this result I submit VOTE: humaneatingmonkey.
Deimos27, Elements, Albert B. Rampage, Firebringer, Alisae, NorwegianBoyEE and humaneatingmonkey, you all woke up before I could share my Plan. Please adjust your votes to humaneatingmonkey to help us accelerate the game.

why do you have pops avatar

[Alisae]

It reads like you're trying to appear to be solving and putting out plans like you're having a townie mindset, but the actual plan described doesn't have much thought put behind it and thus i fail to see how it would be effective at containing scum.

VOTE: norwee

[Alisae]

norwee scum and if he actually flips scum im calling isis town
also monkey is probably town

reading pg 4 now

[Alisae]

The Players who got to Vote you will Factionalize against those who did not get to Vote you, from the rule against fully killing you. This will create Tensions. I will try to deliberately inflame the Tensions until a Player is likely to act angrily.

Doesn't sharing your plan kinda ruin any element of surprise you could possibly derive from it...?

It reads like you're trying to appear to be solving and putting out plans like you're having a townie mindset, but the actual plan described doesn't have much thought put behind it and thus i fail to see how it would be effective at containing scum.

This feels like narative spinning here and norwee pushing Isis here for this sounds doesn't seem honest.

[Alisae]

mostly because it feels like Norwee is forcing himself to push this.
It just doesn't look like scumhunting to me

[Alisae]

mostly because it feels like Norwee is forcing himself to push this.
It just doesn't look like scumhunting to me

Watch me.
VOTE: Isis
VOTE: Isis
VOTE: Isis

[_] Town Reaction
[X] Norwee's conception of a town reaction

i agree with this completely, strengthing my confidence in them not being aligned with each other.

[Alisae]

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

Look at ABR's ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

[Alisae]

i was making a joke

[Alisae]

ABR could be excused by inactivity due to being busy IRL.

He's inactive because he's busy irl?

[Alisae]

why are people voting green crayons

[Alisae]

is Isis pops?

[Alisae]

im genuinely confused now

[Alisae]

Do players just get more inclined to post fluff the more experienced they get? This open has like half the game-relevant-content density of a Newbie.

I’m not posting because I have nothing to post and usually in games I post more.

[Alisae]

Norwegian, who is scum?

Ehh. I’d prefer to base my reads around flips and wagon analyzis in a nightless. But i guess my weaker personal reads for go to scum would be fluffposter Firebringer and Lurkey Cycleman. Looker be looking kinda bad too. But he has an abhorrent towngame in my experience so anything goes.
A bit dissapointed Alisae hasn’t been on my ass more ever since that initial push. The fact that they pushed a scumread before becoming relatively toned down points to bad mojo if you ask me man.

I’m letting the game develop

[Alisae]

scum!Norwegian -> town!Isis makes sense because scum!Norwegian has no reason to fabricate that early suspicion of Isis when they're scumpartners, but why is HEM town?

they’re trying to understand the motivations of other players and asking questions, so right now I’m comfortable with calling them town

[Alisae]

I find it more weird that someone wouldn't know there are 4 scum in this game. Like they are pretending to be idiots to get townread.

If ur town I would honestly like to hydra with you to understand your view on the game, because takes like these are just bad. Not even scummy bad in this case, just flat out bad.

[Alisae]

ABR why do you scumreading Deimos and Isis?

[Alisae]

I think its bad because that’s just a shallow thought process when there’s more depth to it.
Like, they COULD be getting a correct conclusion there, but the way they’re getting to that conclusion is not correct.

I don’t think Norwee is town either atm and thats where my vote is atm.

Pedit: Any specific posts that stand out to you?

[Alisae]

3 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes.

what

[Alisae]

time sure does fly

[Alisae]

btw i have a scumread on ABR
don't like his positioning with his reads but if he lynches scum then maybe he's not bussing?
i would certainly need to do a bit more work if he does lynch scum here

[Alisae]

I remember you being impossibly aggressive as scum

This is correct! I am very aggro as scum.

[Alisae]

is it weird that votato has posted a lot and I have literally no read on them

[Alisae]

if people could let me know what their reads are on that slot and why that would be cool

[Alisae]

at this particular moment
i would definitely have thoughts if I was scum

[Alisae]

at this moment i got nothing
at this moment i am also not focused on the gameplay

[Alisae]

Is there anyone who townreads Norwee?

[Alisae]

Is there anyone who townreads Norwee?

Sort of

why

[Alisae]

the firebringer behind the murder

haha whos this guy

thats why you're basically doing nothing this day phase got it

[Alisae]

It depends on mood and other circumstances

[Alisae]

Hmmm
VOTE: cycle men

I’ll trust you

[Alisae]

Actually if Norwee, Isis, and ABR are all town then this makes me like GC less

[Alisae]

I’m voting cycle men because i wanna rethink through who I’m voting and if all 3 of those are town then cyclemen are probably less likely to be town and they’re clemency so I don’t particularly care if they live or die tbh

[Alisae]

@Looker
I’m actually fairly open with my reads I’m not really hiding anything atm
I stopped engaging ABR because whenever I asked him why he would give me this answer that told me nothing and the first time I asked him to give me specific posts and he didn’t
Now that I think about this more, this makes me a bit more concerned but i don’t know, i might look back that one time I randed scum with him in Gay Mafia and see if I see any similarities.

[Alisae]

Which mini?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82360
^This one.
Fair warning that it's 183 pages long and Alisae posted a ton of those posts.

I feel like it might be safe to say that as of recently I’ve been playing a bit more passively in general because I just don’t care about playing mafia as much atm

[Alisae]

619 is probably scum indicative
But I feel sad for Ali and want em to enjoy mafia

what why

[Alisae]

my enthusiasm towards mafia in general has been low

i've been saying this the whole game no?

[Alisae]

you have 1 guy (looker) saying i was agro as scum
and another guy (norwee) saying i was agro as town
both are right

it means its just not alignment indicative

so why are you saying its scum indicative here

[Alisae]

VOTE: isis

[Alisae]

like
ur saying im scum for not being aggressive

[Alisae]

Which mini?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82360
^This one.
Fair warning that it's 183 pages long and Alisae posted a ton of those posts.

I feel like it might be safe to say that as of recently I’ve been playing a bit more passively in general because I just don’t care about playing mafia as much atm

619 is probably scum indicative
But I feel sad for Ali and want em to enjoy mafia

[Alisae]

hey just so you guys know, i'm ignoring questions on purpose. the reason? i'm truly lazy to comb through this thread to reply to questions peppered all-over. so if you guys have questions you need an answer for, just re-ask it.

This is the post that I think is a townslip

This has been a fast moving game with lots of people asking eachother questions, but I'm pretty sure at the time of this post there were no outstanding questions for monkey

scum remember questions posed to them better than town, in my experience, although they respond at about the same rate after scum deliberately ignore questions somewhat more often. I think scum monkey would be cognizant that he has no outstanding questions to address and just couldn't really formulate this post. Like even if a scum monkey can't remember exactly what answers he owed, I think he would remember the quantity correctly.
Whether he adopts a policy of insisting others repeat themselves or puts in the work to ctrl f for hem and monkey is not very alignment indicative. This is an informational thing.

Since I am not monkey there's a large chance someone did ask him something after all which zeroes this whole thing out but otherwise this is something I'm gonna put a bunch of stock in

[Alisae]

oh wait
that was hem not norwee
lmao

VOTE: norwee

[Alisae]

i must have been seriously stoned when i saw that post then

[Alisae]

Lmao

[Alisae]

@Looker it really depends on the situation but sometimes I hide my reads sometimes I don’t.
Also I’m definitely not bussing lmao, I feel like you should be able to identify that.

[Alisae]

Also god dammit Fire I was literally just about to hammer Cycle Men

[Alisae]

VOTE: fire
for now mostly to try to make EoD more interesting

[Alisae]

VOTE: fire
for now mostly to try to make EoD more interesting

VOTE: fire
now we got twoooo wagons

within two minutes we get these two shit votes? jeez wtf is this

whats bad about it?

[Alisae]

ok but we need a lynch and tieing the wagons is great for information

[Alisae]

like its a nightless game

[Alisae]

Its early game nightless.
Thinking things through a bit more carefully and lynching when we're "confident" is more important in the late game where we have less mislynches avaliable.

[Alisae]

also ya
in nightless games there's gonna be some apathy

not lynching leads to more apathy

[Alisae]

vote norwee

[Alisae]

i would like to add new information to the stand:
im really bad at this game, like, always

Ofc ur gonna be bad when you literally don’t try.

[Alisae]

Monkey vote Norwee or Cycle Men
GC vote Norwee, you know you want to
Isis vote Norwee

VOTE: Norwee
This wagon is super possible people just need to use their fucking votes

[Alisae]

Like
We scumread this slot
Its probably flipping scum
We just gotta make it fucking happen lmao

[Alisae]

VOTE: Cycle Men

Okay bro

VOTE: Cycle Men

can we go back to norwee

--

NorwEE, GC, Elements, Looker

But I want you out of the game after the last page. You prove that you're impossible to sort, and I think you're better flipped than alive.

Looker and GC are likely town you're just bad at teh game if you can't read those slots.

--

here i thought norwee was the clear lynch but i suppose that doesnt look as good now

if you support the lynch vote it.

--

Feels like Alisae just instructed their team to vote me based on the last page alone.

Okay then why doesn't Cycle Men vote with us here?
I'm trying to derail Cycle Men and Firebringer because I believe you're more likely to flip scum then those 2 (who I don't really have reads on btw, so its not like I should care if they die or not)
Like idunno buddy, I really think ur just scum here. This is really dishonest and if ur town and you actually believe this, then idunno what to tell ya

[Alisae]

i'd rather lynch someone who i know i'll keep going back and forth as scum based on behavior and town based on game's reaction on their behavior.

Elements is not gonna be the lynch today and Cycle Men idunno like they could be scum they could be town I don't exactly know but I wanna lynch the guy I scumread because I believe in myself and you should join me over lynching a fucking troll

[Alisae]

Also Norwee like
you have got to be delusional if you honestly believe that I tell my 2 scumbuddies to vote and then before I get to post again they immediately switch their votes away from the wagon I wanted.
Like, just think it through
it doesn't make sense

[Alisae]

Feels like Alisae just instructed their team to vote me based on the last page alone.

like you are saying right here that you feel like I told my team to vote you but then if all 3 of us are teamed, why did isis and monkey unvote

[Alisae]

I do not think Humaneatingmonkey is scum at this moment because what I am seeing him do is try to find the motivations of other players and what I am not seeing him do is I am not seeing him position his reads to suit a scum agenda

[Alisae]

Feels like Alisae just instructed their team to vote me based on the last page alone.

like you are saying right here that you feel like I told my team to vote you but then if all 3 of us are teamed, why did isis and monkey unvote

because you got called out on it?

So you're saying we're afraid of Norwee so much that we panic and switch wagons because we get called out for it

I'm sorry
what

[Alisae]

Are you trying to get me to vote you?
Like
do you want me to scumread you

because that is some fucking stupid ass shit I just read

the idea in of itself is just stupid and humoring it is also just stupid and not realistic

[Alisae]

if we're all scum and norwee is town, we don't even need to push norwee
we can just lynch your dumbass.

[Alisae]

Like when you post and come with theories maybe turn on your brain a little bit, yeah?

pedit: My arguement against it is that it is stupid, not realistic, and excessive, and I am questioning if you are either scum or just bad.
and honestly
this makes me lean towards bad the more I think about it because this whole fucking take on me is just stupid unless you genuinely believe it.

[Alisae]

well idunno, let me ask you, do you believe that the words you're posting and the theories you're coming up with are stupid, or do you think they have value and you actually believe them?

[Alisae]

this is not only an incredibly defensive response, its borderline insulting
its just a game, okay?

okay let me rephrase the question
do you genuinely believe that me, monkey, and isis are all cordinating our votes in this thread and that as soon as they get called out on it, monkey and isis switch their votes back to you? Meaning that you think that me, monkey, and isis are scum

--

Alisae, why is Mr. Inorganic and Mr. Sheeps-a-lot town?

idunno who ur talking about but I like Cycle Men because as scum this is a push that doesn't really make sense if norwee is town, and if norwee is scum it doesn't make sense to support him on a bad theory, also he would probably be hesistant to considering he is also a lynch and the person being lynched by isis and monkey, so if he flips scum then norwee would probably just get lynched anyways.

Firebringer I don't actually have a read on but ABR is pushing it and at the moment, I think if ABR is scum its likely with Norwee given how ABR is positioning himself in the thread with his reads.

[Alisae]

if we're all scum and norwee is town, we don't even need to push norwee
we can just lynch your dumbass.

i mean i also kinda explained why I think its stupid
but sure
you can ignore that

[Alisae]

i believe my arguments have merit, otherwise i wouldnt be making them

okay then you are probably town lmao

[Alisae]

I'm talking about Looker's inorganic behavior and POV and GC's serial sheeping and lack of town paranoia. Both of which you find town.

Looker is town because his read on me is likely just coming from town.
He is also asking questions and trying to figure out my motivations.
GC I think is likely town just by positioning but that changes depending on if all of ABR, Norwee, and Isis are town.

[Alisae]

this is not only an incredibly defensive response, its borderline insulting
its just a game, okay?

okay let me rephrase the question
do you genuinely believe that me, monkey, and isis are all cordinating our votes in this thread and that as soon as they get called out on it, monkey and isis switch their votes back to you? Meaning that you think that me, monkey, and isis are scum
.

i considered it a possibility, not necessarily a certainty
my main gripe was with hems post pressuring me to vote that made me reconsider my reads on him and norwee

HE IS PRESSURING YOU TO VOTE BECAUSE WE HAVE 24 HOURS OF THE DAY PHASE LEFT

[Alisae]

Why would you want to extend D1 for as long as possible
I do not understand like what the actual fuck

[Alisae]

ABR GC Isis and Norwee

Norwee scumreads Isis and Isis scumreads Norwee
ABR townreads Norwee and Scumreads Isis and GC
GC scumreads Norwee and townreads Isis

There just has to be scum in one of these 4 people. This just doesn't look like 4 town to me. It can't be 4 town and I feel like this is happening because there is scum in here.

[Alisae]

I want to be clear. I'm not finding Looker, GC, Elements, and NorwEE as hard to sort. I am sorting them as likely scum. But I can be very wrong, and I think a flipped Cycle Men will help me be more right.

The only reason I didn't have Cycle Men as my primary lynch option earlier was the lack of counterwagon during that period. However, I can see merit in Deimos' push against him. But now I see that the paranoia around it is outweighed by the uncertainty Cycle Men will bring me later in the game.

So Cycle Men it is.

okay but Cycle Men is town so just lynch Norwee with me, yeah?

[Alisae]

oh yeah, we wouldnt want scum to get a night kill

theres no night kill in the setup
we go into the next day phase with a flip and we can proceed to play the game

also we're rewarding by lynching because we have plenty of lynches and if we actually lynch scum, then we get MORE lynches

like you just have to accept that in Mafia, you have to lynch SOMEBODY. SOMEBODY has to die.

[Alisae]

idunno who ur talking about but I like Cycle Men because as scum this is a push that doesn't really make sense if norwee is town, and if norwee is scum it doesn't make sense to support him on a bad theory, also he would probably be hesistant to considering he is also a lynch and the person being lynched by isis and monkey, so if he flips scum then norwee would probably just get lynched anyways.

CAN
YOU
READ

[Alisae]

lol that was painful

HELP ME
VOTE NORWEE

[Alisae]

oh yeah, we wouldnt want scum to get a night kill

do i have to start using /s

I can see the fucking sarcasm lmao

[Alisae]

Alisae. You’re honestly just being annoying. Can you stop shouting and drowning the thread with garbage just to get things your way?

How can I be annoying if I'm scum?

[Alisae]

Yes, Alisae, I can be on the NorwEE wagon. But I also want this Cycle Men wagon to happen.

vote
norwee

[Alisae]

Alisae. You’re honestly just being annoying. Can you stop shouting and drowning the thread with garbage just to get things your way?

How can I be annoying if I'm scum?

I wouldn’t be surprised if you are.

no i am literally asking you, because you apparently believe that I am scum.
How can I be scum, and annoy you at the same time?
I'm playing to wincon if I'm scum lmao.

[Alisae]

Alisae. You’re honestly just being annoying. Can you stop shouting and drowning the thread with garbage just to get things your way?

How can I be annoying if I'm scum?

I wouldn’t be surprised if you are.

no i am literally asking you, because you apparently believe that I am scum.
How can I be scum, and annoy you at the same time?
I'm playing to wincon if I'm scum lmao.

Reading this gave me a stroke.

I don't get it and depending on your answer, i could probably just 180 completely tbh

[Alisae]

Isis looks way more appealing as a lynch if you're town my guy

give me something to work with here

[Alisae]

plz dude
just give me something to work with

[Alisae]

you know what
i hate you norwee (not actually just ur making this frustrating lmao)
i am going to admit
that i probably do not know how you play this game at all
i don't think i agree with it but this is giving me flashbacks to the normal where I had issues reading you and you reacted similarly
and now there is this seed of doubt that was planted

I think its Isis if ur town
VOTE: Isis

[Alisae]

Like, this amount of pressure just to lynch me is ridiculuous. And it feeds into Alisae’s scum range. But the fact that they openly admit they could easily 180 it makes me curious if i’ve read the game wrong.
Can you talk me into why Isis is your natural next step assuming i’m town Alisae?

because if ur town, abr is likely town, u2 positioned yourselfs against Isis and I don't think Isis is town if both of you two are

[Alisae]

also we have elements literally lolcatting atm with his vote and Isis from memory defended that but im not sure thats correct

[Alisae]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Alisae]

I don't exactly have a read on Firebringer and if I have {Norwee, ABR, GC, Cycle, Monkey, Looker} town then I might as well support a wagon on someone who has a pretty good chance of being scum considering my reads

[Alisae]

unless we gonna flashwagon Elements
Im down for that

[Alisae]

ok i don't like Alisae anymore after those reads they seem as fake as Donald trumps hair

YEP
YEP
YEEEEEEEEEP

[Alisae]

unless we gonna flashwagon Elements
Im down for that

why do you think I'm scum?

ur lolcatting with ur vote and not solving

[Alisae]

VOTE: elements

[Alisae]

Cycle Men. Is it weird if i consider it town that you’re just as confused as i am?

u2 are probably just town lmao

[Alisae]

VOTE: Notwegian

nah i don't agree
i don't think norwee thinks im scum but also thinks im annoying at the same time
those are conflicting thought processes

[Alisae]

unless we gonna flashwagon Elements
Im down for that

why do you think I'm scum?

ur lolcatting with ur vote and not solving

and scum would do that because?

there's no town motivation lmao

[Alisae]

like there is NO town motivations to your actions

[Alisae]

YEP YEP we're killing Elements boyz

Elements is panicking because I 180'd on Norwee and decided to call them out for being scummy, mostly because calling me fake and shading me is their first reaction instead of trying to ask questions to get an opinion.

[Alisae]

ok i don't like Alisae anymore after those reads they seem as fake as Donald trumps hair

this is their first reaction
its a scum reaction
we flip these

[Alisae]

like there is NO town motivations to your actions

there's even less scum motivations.
Is there a way i could possibly be drawing more attention to myself.
There was a pretty much confirmed lynch on not me before i started posting.
Why do I, as scum, come in like a beyblade bashing around everyone getting my opinion out there as scum when I could easily have just sat back and watch a lynch.

there is scum motivation because everyone you post as scum is to your wincon.
you are not solving or trying to form reads

there is no town motivations in your actions.
town does not play this way.

[Alisae]

Cycle Men vote Elements

[Alisae]

if cycle flips scum we get gc town, ail scum, norwee town

lmao ur scum dude
cycle men as scum with me votes you by now

[Alisae]

there is no town motivations in your actions.
town does not play this way.

this isn't really true

town at first reaction to my scumread tries to take this opportunity to sort me and tries to understand why
what elements did was immediately say that my reads are fake and aimed to discredit me

thats a scum response imo

[Alisae]

like
their first reaction was to discredit me instead of ask me why i scumread them.

they did it after but you ask why I scumread them first to see their answer and try to evaluate an opinion based on that answer.
Instead they came out with an opinion right away before trying to ask me why I scumread them.

Also, they're playing this angle of "Well there's no scum motivation to my play so I have to be town" to try to excuse themselves from being scummy when thats just not how it works. Because there is no town motivation in their actions either.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Notwegian

nah i don't agree
i don't think norwee thinks im scum but also thinks im annoying at the same time
those are conflicting thought processes

But see:

This wagon is super possible people just need to use their fucking votes

Super possible because you have 2 teammates to vote with you? Or are you referring to something else?

VOTE: Norwegian

This is a scummy attempt to discredit votes against him. First it doesn’t address the reasons for the vote. Second it attacks the vote pusher for a pretty wild conspiracy. Scum block vote for a fast lynch at the end of the game, not on D1.

VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

A vote because he doesn’t like a policy lynch rationale from someone who was willing to policy lynch. Opportunistic to vote human, after cycle did, based on this thin reed and ignoring everything else.

Okay but its too flawed to come from scum. One of us flips town and he looks REALLY bad. Scum don't push angles like that.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Notwegian

nah i don't agree
i don't think norwee thinks im scum but also thinks im annoying at the same time
those are conflicting thought processes

this isn't really true. scum!norwee can use ate to discredit town!you as being annoying. town!norwee will say that scum!you is scummy, not annoying

he's not using AtE.
He is saying that he thinks im scum but also i am annoying him. Like, I basically cornered him and he doesn't know how to react, and acknowledges that I am annoying because deep down in this mind, he thinks that he could be wrong, but he's scumreading me because im just pushing him.

I'm using a lot of words to describe what is essentially a self-defense mechanism, because I know sometimes I can act fairly similarly as well.
I encountered Norwee act this way before and when he did act this way, he was likely town.

Him calling me annoying and asking me to stop just doesn't make sense from a scum PoV there. As scum he just continues to discredit me because he would probably aim to maintain a consistent stance on me.
That post in of itself is an inconsitentcy and I don't think he makes it as scum.
It feels genuine.

[Alisae]

He’s too scummy to be scum?

Come on.

I’m still trying to mull over Elements.

not too scummy to be scummy
the logic just doesn't work and is faulty

its not rational and its chaotic and reactional, and its probably just town imo

[Alisae]

Don't want to comment on your scum slip Ali?

i mean
anything is possible if you lie

[Alisae]

ok so I'm thinking Ali, cycle, someone not currently active as the scum team.

Why Ali?

because he's trying to discredit me because im pushing him

[Alisae]

idunno who ur talking about but I like Cycle Men because as scum this is a push that doesn't really make sense if norwee is town, and if norwee is scum it doesn't make sense to support him on a bad theory, also he would probably be hesistant to considering he is also a lynch and the person being lynched by isis and monkey, so if he flips scum then norwee would probably just get lynched anyways.

CAN
YOU
READ

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ

[Alisae]

I have quoted it twice now
just read it

[Alisae]

idunno who ur talking about but I like Cycle Men because as scum this is a push that doesn't really make sense if norwee is town, and if norwee is scum it doesn't make sense to support him on a bad theory, also he would probably be hesistant to considering he is also a lynch and the person being lynched by isis and monkey, so if he flips scum then norwee would probably just get lynched anyways.

who is this directed at

the answer to this question is also obtained by going back to the post of which it was written in

[Alisae]

when you're stressed and frustrated alisae, do you usually cycle avatars?

im just cycling because im bored with the lavender atm and im just trying to maintain the theme while having an avatar that literally isn't just a single color

[Alisae]

also wrong but interesting this came from cycle.

how is it wrong?

[Alisae]

when you're stressed and frustrated alisae, do you usually cycle avatars?

im just cycling because im bored with the lavender atm and im just trying to maintain the theme while having an avatar that literally isn't just a single color

I thought you had gone into this forum midlife crisis where you’d change your avatar to something boring to acclimate the "new, you."
Glad i was wrong.

fuck dude
i smoked all of my weed ;~;

[Alisae]

honestly I should probably be smoking less weed and going to sleep.
but nah i wanna play mafia atm

also can you answer my question?

[Alisae]

this frustrates me greatly wolfpupper

[Alisae]

this frustrates me greatly wolfpupper

smoke some weed that will take of the edge.

I DON'T HAVE ANY I'D PROBABLY HAVE TO GO ROLL SOME MORE

[Alisae]

I'll hammer whatever gets to L-1 except myself.
I'll support Cycle Men because I personally think he flips town but if it does flip scum then there are probably some things I have to re-evaluate, since I'm off base completely.
Also I too also believe Norwee is snuggly but im just tryina to play mafia KEKW

[Alisae]

alisae ur not even a little bugged how fast cycle men has come to ur side? Not even a bit?

it doesn't bug me because saying that he thinks me, monkey, and isis are all scum that cordinated their votes to vote norwee doesn't make sense. Especially after Norwee calls it out and Monkey and Isis decide to move back to Cycle Men.

[Alisae]

Like I think that whole interaction with him where I called him stupid for believing that bazzare theory is likely just him genuinely believing it.

Either way I don't care and I'm willing to hammer it if we get it to L-1.
If it town it makes me feel more confident in my reads, if it flips scum then I need to re-evaluate

[Alisae]

I'm going to keep my vote on Elements for now and go to bed.
I personally believe that their reaction to me calling them scummy and wanting to flashwagon them is scum indicative but I wanna give it time and see how people respond to it, especially ABR. He has an opinion I value here.

[Alisae]

Votato why exactly do you not like me?

[Alisae]

VOTE: alisae

lmao ur actually serious

[Alisae]

Because I haven't seen anything Ali do to be vote-worthy, and I still read her town.

I'm pretty sure Alisae's 1128 is scum-indicative, and that's what ABR picked up on.

literally how

[Alisae]

Are people calling me scum because I wanna hammer something to make sure we have a lynch?
Lmao alright sure whatever

[Alisae]

Nothing changed my mind, Isis already beat me to the punch lmao

[Alisae]

Alisae hammer now. Isis wasn't a hammer.

oh
Ok
Got it
VOTE: cycle men

[Alisae]

Let's see what this flip teaches us

VOTE: Cycle Men

Are people calling me scum because I wanna hammer something to make sure we have a lynch?
Lmao alright sure whatever

It doesn't matter if we no lynch its nightless.

its still a lynch and its still information we can work with

[Alisae]

Like dude
Someone HAS to die
Yes we have no lynches but being right right now isn’t important
Its better to save the no lynches if we need them for the late game because in the late game its significantly more important to be right lmao

[Alisae]

Cycle Men probably flips town and I think I saw Clemency actually try for once
Its sad but it had to be done

[Alisae]

lmao thats unlucky for me

[Alisae]

idunno what to say
ima have to re-read somethings but like
im not scum and i feel like if I was scum with Clemency here, he doesn't try to align himself with Norwee when Norwee thinks that I'm cordinating votes on him. That whole interaction just doesn't make sense.

[Alisae]

Later I will take a look at votecounts and stuff but I think if we look at votecounts we should be able to find a 2nd one

[Alisae]

also in general we have a lot more room to mislynch now so thats the good news

[Alisae]

Also god dammit Fire I was literally just about to hammer Cycle Men

Votecount 1.24

Target	Wagon
Cycle Men (5)	NorwegianboyEE (155), Deimos27 (588), Isis (614), Elements (659), Green Crayons (720)
Firebringer (3)	Cycle Men (152), votato (548), Albert B. Rampage (813)
NorwegianboyEE (2)	Looker (456), Alisae (647)
Elements (1)	humaneatingmonkey (663)
votato (1)	Firebringer (840)
Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-08 06:42:59).

VOTE: fire
for now mostly to try to make EoD more interesting

I just really don't care for this exchange.

Ali, if you wanted a cycle hammer, why didn't you just vote cycle? FB had already said he was wanting to hammer cycle and so you could have likely had the cycle lynch right then. Instead you voted for FB.

i voted fire there because if I couldn't decide a lynch, then I could at least make an attempt to tie the wagons to try to get information from that, tho that kind of just ended up falling apart and not happening I think

[Alisae]

bro what are you doing

[Alisae]

I was just wondering why scum!alisea hammers cycle there. I think e realised e's backed into a corner with views on cycle and I and eir deceleration to hammer whatever got to L-1. Whoever was lyched e'd have to "re-evaluate" eir entire readlist but the hammer on Cycle maybe gives some town cred because cycle was scum. I think whatever alignment Ali has to hammer there though.

Spoiler:

lmao thats unlucky for me

LAMIST

im not scum and i feel like if I was scum with Clemency here, he doesn't try to align himself with Norwee when Norwee thinks that I'm cordinating votes on him. That whole interaction just doesn't make sense.

pointing out of a plan to distance?

Later I will take a look at votecounts and stuff but I think if we look at votecounts we should be able to find a 2nd one

"town effort"

also in general we have a lot more room to mislynch now so thats the good news

LAMIST

I think I'm more confident about votata right now

VOTE: votato

what the fuck you’d expect me to do?

[Alisae]

ABR, Alisae, votato all looks red to me right now. Although I'm wrong about at least one.

what the fuck

[Alisae]

Why am I red

[Alisae]

Because I haven't seen anything Ali do to be vote-worthy, and I still read her town.

I'm pretty sure Alisae's 1128 is scum-indicative, and that's what ABR picked up on.

literally how

Let me walk you through it.
The town motivation you list for town!Alisae for voting a townread is that you get info on the accuracy of your reads.
You gain the exact same info from lynching a scumread. The player either flips the way you thought or they don't.
Lynching your townreads is playing against town win con.

The motivation for scum!Alisae was there regardless of Clemency's alignment.
If he's town, you want to lock in the mislynch.
If he's scum, by the time he's L-1 at this stage it's likely he's getting lynched anyway and you want to get the towncred.

its deadline and its better to make sure we have a lynch thats secured then no lynch

[Alisae]

I'm also curious why Firebringer and Isis bussed and not Alisae.

Isis isn’t a busser lol

[Alisae]

At least not here

[Alisae]

GTFO with this vote

Eat this vote, scumbag.

Spoiler:

bro what are you doing

Am I the bro?

im not scum and i feel like if I was scum with Clemency here, he doesn't try to align himself with Norwee when Norwee thinks that I'm cordinating votes on him. That whole interaction just doesn't make sense.

pointing out of a plan to distance?

Are you accusing Alisae of drafting a distancing plan in the main topic?

VOTE: Firebringer

This vote-hopping atmosphere is kind of tricky. How effective would a bus be in a nightless?

Nah Im talkin to abr there

[Alisae]

I would like to hear about ABR’s finalized reads or something before he dies if thats what you guys want to do
Personally I’m not sure, but I also I haven’t really put in the work to figure out an alternative, so I’m not in the position to say anything.
But I respect ABR as a player enough to give his reads like thought

[Alisae]

I'm also curious why Firebringer and Isis bussed and not Alisae.

Isis isn’t a busser lol

I very very much would like to hear this post explained

You moved your vote too much to bus here

[Alisae]

ABRs reads are bad but honestly
I would not be surprised in the slightest if he was town

[Alisae]

Like I don’t think his scumreads are actually scummy and I think scumreading GC is actually townie here

[Alisae]

If I had to say one of ABRs reads that is actually right, it would probably be GC tbh

[Alisae]

I’m still kind of of the opinion that there’s 1 scum in Isis, ABR, Norwee, and you

[Alisae]

ABR what do you think about Deimos?

[Alisae]

My first instinct is to look to that slot to see if he bussed but I just haven’t gotten around to it yet

[Alisae]

I’m still kind of of the opinion that there’s 1 scum in Isis, ABR, Norwee, and you

I would *love* for Norwegian to be scum.

But look at Cycle and Norwegians interactions and tell me how that makes sense.

I’m reading into stuff right now actually
I don’t think Norwee is scum because he voted Cycle very early then hopped off and tried to counter wagon elements with me

I feel like if he’s scum he just votes Cycle Men this game lmao

[Alisae]

like looking at VCs a bit more, it does seem like ABR just didn’t want to bus Cycle Men.

[Alisae]

My gut is telling me to hammer ABR here after looking at votecounts but I want to give Deimos a further review
Also if ABR is scum its definitely with Votato

[Alisae]

alisae how is scum abr = scum votato that i am not seeing btw?

they were both voting off wagon.

[Alisae]

I think its possible they say my Elements CW as an opportunity to save a buddy so they took it

[Alisae]

Saw*

[Alisae]

Firebringer I’m good with that list for now

[Alisae]

I am going to call Firebringer town because it feels good atm

[Alisae]

oh btw did someone say hammer
VOTE: abr

[Alisae]

no
nobody?

[Alisae]

poggers

[Alisae]

oh am i not allowed to hammer

[Alisae]

I think its possible they say my Elements CW as an opportunity to save a buddy so they took it

Does this mean you townread me now?

depending on how many scum are on your wagon, there is a chance you could be town

pedit: we respect him because reputation

[Alisae]

VOTE: votato

[Alisae]

so we have a pattern. i'm not saying what, but there's a pattern.

let's get this obvscum out of the way VOTE: alisae

you were voting abr what do you have to complain about

[Alisae]

ur missing votato

[Alisae]

why am I scum monkey boi

[Alisae]

you don't even want to case me

fucking lmao dude

[Alisae]

Ok now lets wait for Deimos and Norwee to vote me

Assuming no one hammers and someone calls intent before they hammer, I should be fine and be allowed to get out any last thoughts I want to have.

Because I am town and I want to put my thoughts out there, but I’m you would need one of {GC, Isis, Fire, and Looker} to hammer me and I don’t think its going to happen.

[Alisae]

Norwee why are you voting me

[Alisae]

Elements why are you voting me
Monkey why are you voting me do not dodge my question
Votato why are you voting me

Saying I’m obvscum and leaving your thoughts at that is not acceptable.
If you place a vote, you are held accountable for that vote.

[Alisae]

anyone out there think alisae will flip town?

Norwee why are you voting me

Because scum was bussing Cycle Men and you look suspicious.

Why do I look suspicious

—

okay but Cycle Men is town so just lynch Norwee with me, yeah?

I mean, this is the kind of shit all over your ISO. And then you switch over to Cycle Men when he's close to getting lynch and hammer for the towncred.

I did not lynch and hammer for towncred.
I lynched and hammered because in mafia games, there is a deadline, and using a no lynch on day 1 is not optimal.

If you are associating me with Cycle Men, why are you only reading my ISO by itself.
Why are you not taking into consideration Cycle Men’s posts?

[Alisae]

anyone out there think alisae will flip town?

you scared of interacting with me monkey boy?

[Alisae]

yes you give me the heebeejeebees

lmao

[Alisae]

Answer my questions.
I will not answer yours unless you answer me

[Alisae]

So why did I not want to bus him earlier in the game?

[Alisae]

So why did I not want to bus him earlier in the game?

I think the late joiners on the wagon are more likely to be scum bussing. That includes you. You were defending him at first, before switching to voting him with a slightly awkward hammer when he was L-1. That's not a good enough reason to suspect you? You seem to be shading the people voting you more than you are actually trying to solve atm.

It’s not a good enough reason Norwee, and let me tell you why.
When I started to townread him was when he started playing the game.
You are taking this moment and this particular moment only and trying to suggest that I was defending my scumbuddy and decided to take an awkward hammer when he was at L-1.

Thats not a good enough reason because you are only evaluating that particular moment and nothing else.
You are not evaluating my read on him before he wanted to play the game, only after.
Also you are not taking into consideration that if scum decides “Hey, I wasn’t doing much earlier, but now I am invested into the game and actually want to play it,” that since they’re starting to play the game and take it seriously, that they CAN trick town into townreading them.

[Alisae]

Also Norwee where as of post 1570 I have not shaded anyone.
Holding people accountable for their votes is not shading
Who have I shaded?

[Alisae]

You townread him when he was at the scummiest, and scumread him when he was at the towniest. That's not a natural progression Alisae.

When did I scumread him?

[Alisae]

Quote the posts Norwee

[Alisae]

So why did I not want to bus him earlier in the game?

not the town response here

also I’m not letting you fuckin slide
How is that not a town response and what is a town response there in that situation?
Because that is a perfectly valid question.

[Alisae]

Elements why do you think Firebringer is scum and why do you think Monkey isn’t scum

[Alisae]

I think you’re probably town and I think we just need to lynch Monkey, Deimos, Votato, and Norwee.
I think that Cycle Men just doesn’t start a push on you and I think he buddied me when he was pushing you to make me look worse.
I think you are more town then those 4 so I am actually just appealing to you.

[Alisae]

You townread him when he was at the scummiest, and scumread him when he was at the towniest. That's not a natural progression Alisae.

When did I scumread him?

Quote the posts Norwee

Alright, call it fence-sitting. Call it whatever, you went from TR on Clemency, to changing your stance a lot, to deciding to TR him again and saying "he will probably flip town" after the hammer. Which is a typical scum way of appearing ignorant of the flips.

So instead of actually reconsidering your point once you realize I never actually scumread him, you adjust your stance to suit your narative.

Got it.
Yep.

[Alisae]

I don't think fire is scum, but atm I have an overwhelming number of townreads on teh ABR wagon so I feel I must have something wrong there so I can entertain the possibility of fire being scum

I think everyone who is defending me is town and that 3 of the people who are attacking me are scum here. And if someone who is townreading me in {Fire, Isis, GC, Looker} decides to vote me, then they’re more likely to be scum then anyone else in that group.

Firebringer has no reason to townread me here as scum.
Isis definitely has no reason to townread me here as scum
GC definitely has no reason to townread me here as scum
And Looker has no reason to townread me in this game because we were recently scum together and I feel like he should be able to identify the differences between this game and that game where we were scum together and I defended him even though he was under a lot of pressure.

Within the context of this game, I am unlucky enough to be lynchbait here, and because of that, I don’t feel like scum would defend me when thats not optimal, its optimal to just lynch me here. Thats why at this moment, I want to hold people accountable for their reads on me, since I feel like I am good enough to try to attempt to identify bullshit.

[Alisae]

I think we just need to lynch Monkey, Deimos, Votato, and Norwee.

yeah and the post Norwee wrote where he expresses the concern that I am just shading my attackers is written in 1601 and that post you’re quoting is in 1614

So why are you tolerating Norwee’s bullshit again?

[Alisae]

Your hammers were the only reason ABR got quicklynched and you're not gonna self-hammer here anyway if you're town.

why is that bad?

[Alisae]

Monkey is town because of the wagon on me. When monkey was sring me, no one joined him by voting me and he was left on his lonesome. Then towards the end of the day I started being accusative and throwing stuff around then more people started voting me and wanting my lynch, at that point monkey stopped wanting my lynch. My wagon was the counter wagon to cycle. Scum!monkey could've easily voted me instead and had a mislynch day one but didn't. Monkey is town.

So, I am probably going to put out a case explaining my solve here and what I think happened in this game.
I think he wanted to bus Cycle Men and was the person who wanted to bus Cycle Men and just makes sense.
Its going to take some time to write, but I think Norwee and Monkey are buddies here and if Monkey and Norwee are buddies here, with how Cycle Men played and what I was doing in general, the better strategy here is to keep bussing.

Because what flip discredits me more and makes me more lynchable
Cycle Men scumflip, or your townflip?

[Alisae]

Looker has no reason to townread me in this game because we were recently scum together and I feel like he should be able to identify the differences between this game and that game where we were scum together and I defended him even though he was under a lot of pressure.

This looks contradictory:
You were scum with looker => Looker knows your scum play
Looker has no reason to townread me => You are playing how you play scum
He should be able to see the differences => You are not paying how you play scum

Look its late at night and I’m tired can you try to cut me some slack
What I am trying to get across is that Looker knows how I play as scum and should be able to identify the difference between that game and this game.

[Alisae]

It was an obvious pressure wagon and you're not dumb enough to quickhammer ABR there when there hasn't really been AI-indicative material to sort ABR from.

Unless you had a reason to strongly believe ABR was scum there?

Why is this scum indicative?

[Alisae]

Strong?
No

[Alisae]

A reason?
Yeah I have one

But its not a strong one

[Alisae]

Because we just lynched scum and we can mislynch sparingly, meaning we have more room to be wrong as a reward for lynching scum on D1

[Alisae]

like I actually townread ABR because I thought his reads were townie
hammered him anyways

[Alisae]

Yeah
it doesn't matter how wrong you are as long as you get to the right answer.

Whats your issue with it

[Alisae]

no you're not
I want you to actually explain why that is scummy