Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Isis
For being an inferior deity. Or a terrorist organisation, which isn't any better.

Which is it?
VOTE: Isis
Until they clarify.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I probably won't be putting in much effort in this game. Eh Looker?
Anyway, this seems like "wagon analysis" the game. So basically just get some wagons going first of all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The Players who got to Vote you will Factionalize against those who did not get to Vote you, from the rule against fully killing you. This will create Tensions. I will try to deliberately inflame the Tensions until a Player is likely to act angrily.

Doesn't sharing your plan kinda ruin any element of surprise you could possibly derive from it...?

[NorwegianboyEE]

It reads like you're trying to appear to be solving and putting out plans like you're having a townie mindset, but the actual plan described doesn't have much thought put behind it and thus i fail to see how it would be effective at containing scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It reads like you're trying to appear to be solving and putting out plans like you're having a townie mindset, but the actual plan described doesn't have much thought put behind it and thus i fail to see how it would be effective at containing scum.

do you townread this or nah?

It's nah.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is a new open alt hopefully becomes my main. I got tired of letter soup.

Oh. I see.

Not sure how to read Elements. He is always an axolotl-tier read.

Axolotl?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I figure it would be pretty difficult to read Egyptian goddesses too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ohhh man place that vote all over me. spray me with that vote

Wtf?
VOTE: Firebringer

[NorwegianboyEE]

But i'm so much more cute.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NorwegianboyEE, you were Katyusha in your past life?

Nah, i just like the song.

[NorwegianboyEE]

mostly because it feels like Norwee is forcing himself to push this.
It just doesn't look like scumhunting to me

Watch me.
VOTE: Isis
VOTE: Isis
VOTE: Isis

[NorwegianboyEE]

Who on earth is Albert B. Rampage and where have they gone

Albert was super hyped for the game to start from what i remember in the queue.

[NorwegianboyEE]

mostly because it feels like Norwee is forcing himself to push this.
It just doesn't look like scumhunting to me

Watch me.
VOTE: Isis
VOTE: Isis
VOTE: Isis

[_] Town Reaction
[X] Norwee's conception of a town reaction

i agree with this completely, strengthing my confidence in them not being aligned with each other.

Alisae, have you been smoking again?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Cycle Man
Weird posts.

[NorwegianboyEE]

excuse me but why are people playing like this

It's a human eat monkey world out there friend.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norway were you town or mafia in haunted village?

I was a shitty town vig.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Cycle men because Norweescum is likely to reveal all of his teammates and write me poetry

It don’t come so cheap no more. Besides. It’s not like that worked out so well in Fusion mafia. Pocket attempts on you are out of the picture from now on. I know it’s sad for you, but after all... you can only blame yourself. If you had been obediently pocketed i’d let you live on in that sweet sweet blissfull ignorance.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually, you were one of the main reasons i was close to having a mental breakdown. All those times you unnecesarilly placed an extra vote on me made me want to break out in tears and confess that i’d been a very bad scum player and deserved punishment.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

Look at ABR's ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

I disagree. ABR could be excused by inactivity due to being busy IRL. Meanwhile Cycle men has consistently posted garbage. Showing that they had the potential to make good posts, but did not.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ABR could be excused by inactivity due to being busy IRL.

He's inactive because he's busy irl?

Idk, but the fact that he hasn't posted anything here since his first post suggests it's an possibility.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cycle Man

>joins the game, but not really

im sorry did you expect me to have the game solved in half an hour on page 2?
how hard are you gonna try and force this?

Bruh, your defense would look a lot better if you had posted anything at all that would advance the game prior to this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

im not the type of person who feels like pretending that you can form any type of read off 100-200 posts in a 12 player game

Well a bunch of people have got reads already. Why haven't you?

[NorwegianboyEE]

keyword: pretending

So who are the ones pretending according to you?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You don't have reads, got it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Green Crayons

Good vote Isis.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wait... so i’m the mafia?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think u got 48 hours left of my vote isis

What does this mean, by the way? I interpret it in two different ways, but neither makes sense.

Pretty sure he’s referring to the agreement he would vote whoever they did for a limited time.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian, who is scum?

Ehh. I’d prefer to base my reads around flips and wagon analyzis in a nightless. But i guess my weaker personal reads for go to scum would be fluffposter Firebringer and Lurkey Cycleman. Looker be looking kinda bad too. But he has an abhorrent towngame in my experience so anything goes.
A bit dissapointed Alisae hasn’t been on my ass more ever since that initial push. The fact that they pushed a scumread before becoming relatively toned down points to bad mojo if you ask me man.

[NorwegianboyEE]

There are multiple slots in this game i’d be happy to see get policy lynched tbh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Then tell me why firebringer and cycle men are more likely scum than the other policy lynch slots.

Because some slots seem more like "town not giving a fuck" vs "scum intentionally not doing anything".

[NorwegianboyEE]

If one of them flips scum i'd probably change the rest of my suspects based on the knowledge that X was scum. People that try to catch the entire scumteam in early D1 are usually not correct in the slightest.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because some slots seem more like "town not giving a fuck" vs "scum intentionally not doing anything".

You've very diplomatically avoided stating which slots you consider to be the former, and which the latter.

Yep.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why'd you come up with 4 suspects?

Because those were the people on my mind at the time. And yes, i am well aware there are 4 scum in this game. Because i tend to read game setups before i join in.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I find it more weird that someone wouldn't know there are 4 scum in this game. Like they are pretending to be idiots to get townread.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I find it more weird that someone wouldn't know there are 4 scum in this game. Like they are pretending to be idiots to get townread.

Angry about being scum.

Ok? Is this claim of yours in any way relevant to what i said?

[NorwegianboyEE]

if u are at all dissatisfied with the content I am posting ABR I am giving u a limited time offer of 3 people I will ISO and give detailed examinations into thoughts on how their mind operates, alignment, and their favorite color.

Order now.

Isis
Deimos
Firebringer

Alright, this will only take me an hour. Please hold.

Wow, this is somewhat exciting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I find it more weird that someone wouldn't know there are 4 scum in this game. Like they are pretending to be idiots to get townread.

Angry about being scum.

Ok? Is this claim of yours in any way relevant to what i said?

Yes. It is commenting on your tone.

My "tone" must be based on something else. Because i’m usually never angry if i roll scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can someone sum up why Deimos is suddenly a wagon?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Green Crayons, why did you put Deimos into L-1 with that 404 vote?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Green Crayons, why did you put Deimos into L-1 with that 404 vote?

I thought he's L-3, but tbf I only looked at the last VC.

You didn't notice the 3 votes consequently placed just after Firebringer wrote his stuff?
Firebringer's reason for calling Deimos scummy was flimsy to begin with, but then you immediately changed your vote from me (your main scumread) to putting a lolwagon on L-1...

[NorwegianboyEE]

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Oh right. Majority is 7. For some reason i thought it was 5, my bad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

man if I was in a try hard mood. I want to look through NorweiganboyEE cause my gut says town but my mind doesn't like he isn't actively pushing anything.

Brb while i manufacture some content.
Oh, right. I don’t have much time so won’t be efforting. Never mind.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That exams are a bitch.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is it wrong that I want to keep Norwee alive for about four days so I can encounter him breaking out in tears and confessing that he's a very bad scum player who deserves punishment though?

Isis, cease your terrorism at once.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'll actually read up on the game and post some thoughts early tommorow when i'm not dead on the inside from exam work.
Expect fluff and non-game advancing content though. It's my specialty.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm thinking we should find out who this Clemency guy is and lynch him. He looks pretty scummy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alisae was pretty damn aggressive as town in a mini i played with them recently though.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Which mini?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82360
^This one.
Fair warning that it's 183 pages long and Alisae posted a ton of those posts.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Everyone else is town. Except Norwee who I am going to torture. And some people who are hard to figure out.

But if you think i’m so scummy. Why would you keep me alive?
Is this some next level pocketing where you try to store me as a lynch for later?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee is wrong, Looker is right. It's alignment indicative

I got real confused by what you’ve been saying on Alisae. Are you saying that my conclusion which is "Alisae can be aggressive as town." is wrong?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cycle man joins the battle, your mom, could go for a burger right now.

Yes, it’s a great entrance!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Looker is that kind of guy.
Not saying it’s town or scum. It’s just in his character.

[NorwegianboyEE]

He was about to say: "oh shit, i was scum guys. lol xP"

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are those comments of yours attempts at joking Green Crayons? I didn't know you had it in you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

are most Norwegians as sarcastic as u Norwee?

Probably not. I'm the top class.

[NorwegianboyEE]

pedit: norweigans are generally a bit insecure because a) they wish they were danish, but know they arent and b) they know that they arent pure scandinavian because they mixed too much with the survivors of the spanish armada and c) they talk funny. sometimes that insecurity gets released and expresses itself as sarcasm

Hold up, are you a Dane?

[NorwegianboyEE]

yes. basically.

Fun fact. 99% of countries surveyed probably wouldn't believe you if they were told Denmark is a real country. And now you're trying to diss Norway? HAH. HAHA.
How's life with a potato stuck in your throat? Only way to explain your weird dialects.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can't scumread Firebringer anymore.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cus he brings fire to this thread.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It wasn’t a good joke.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What convinced me most for the cycle vote is Deimos's wagon analysis. If you assume Deimos is town, I think the wagon analysis is the most convincing reason to vote someone.

I don't know, man. I'd need to ISO Elements before voting and I'm sort of being lazy and not doing that at the moment. Plus there's nobody else on that vote with you.

What do you think about a Norweig lynch?

If Cycle Man is scum then Green Crayons is bussing. This is pretty bad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Joins same wagon as his scumreads (me + Deimos) then tries to get off/derail the momentum on cycle men wagon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, this.

Scum

- votato
- Deimos27
- Elements
- NorwegianboyEE

Cycle Men (6) NorwegianboyEE (155), Deimos27 (588), Isis (614), Elements (659), Green Crayons (720), Firebringer (721)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Do you think it's likely that he's scum? GC, I mean.

Yes. He's put out a stance on his scumreads, voted Deimos. Then reverses it all when he joins the most popular wagon Cycle men.

[NorwegianboyEE]

also what lol

human is asking me to get off and I'm telling him why I believe the cycle vote makes most sense

What do you think about a Norweig lynch?

Seems a bit like cognitive dissonance you've got there buddy. You were clearly fishing for him to vote me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Joins same wagon as his scumreads (me + Deimos) then tries to get off/derail the momentum on cycle men wagon.

Also this is an incredibly sloppy hitjob.

Obviously I'm not 4/4 out of my scumreads, especially when we have no flips yet, so the fact that some of them are voting someone who I find most worthy of a vote shouldn't (and doesn't) affect my developing suspicions.

A whooping 3 of those you believe to be scum joined a wagon on Cycle Men. (Yes, scum. You didn't say scumleans) Yet you just changed your mind apparently.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You're not good at pushing bad cases.

Now you're just doing cheap attempts at discredit. I've let you be on me for so long because i was looking for concrete proofs you are scum. And the way you've been playing around the wagons so far has been scummy as fuck.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you now townreading me?

lol, no, you're back to null.

My reason to vote you loses much of its luster when you were V/LA and that was a legitimate reason explaining your pbp catch up presence, which led to a deficit in what looked to me like legitimate hunting.

We'll see where you go from here.

"We’ll see where you go from here."
Yeah right. Is thinly veiled threats your scum specialty? And did you consider that using activity as your only measurement of scum hunting is a shitty tactic. And one scum loves to push because it’s an easy target?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Typical 2002’er acting with a superiority complex. "Ur bad at this." "Lol ur bad at this."
Like a damn robot. So predictable and sad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Freudian excuse eh?

[NorwegianboyEE]

This wagon is super possible people just need to use their fucking votes

Super possible because you have 2 teammates to vote with you? Or are you referring to something else?

[NorwegianboyEE]

And here comes the cavalry.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That made me laugh more than it should.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Monkey, voting because hard to sort is just bad reasoning. If you have scumreads, push them.
I mean, i thought you scumread me. But you just find me hard to sort? Ok?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Feels like Alisae just instructed their team to vote me based on the last page alone.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alisae. You’re honestly just being annoying. Can you stop shouting and drowning the thread with garbage just to get things your way?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alisae. You’re honestly just being annoying. Can you stop shouting and drowning the thread with garbage just to get things your way?

How can I be annoying if I'm scum?

I wouldn’t be surprised if you are.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alisae. You’re honestly just being annoying. Can you stop shouting and drowning the thread with garbage just to get things your way?

How can I be annoying if I'm scum?

I wouldn’t be surprised if you are.

no i am literally asking you, because you apparently believe that I am scum.
How can I be scum, and annoy you at the same time?
I'm playing to wincon if I'm scum lmao.

Reading this gave me a stroke.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like, this amount of pressure just to lynch me is ridiculuous. And it feeds into Alisae’s scum range. But the fact that they openly admit they could easily 180 it makes me curious if i’ve read the game wrong.
Can you talk me into why Isis is your natural next step assuming i’m town Alisae?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I am the best lolcat.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cycle Men. Is it weird if i consider it town that you’re just as confused as i am?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cycle men you weren’t this active or solvey before. What changed?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Elements
I’m fine here now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

when you're stressed and frustrated alisae, do you usually cycle avatars?

im just cycling because im bored with the lavender atm and im just trying to maintain the theme while having an avatar that literally isn't just a single color

I thought you had gone into this forum midlife crisis where you’d change your avatar to something boring to acclimate the "new, you."
Glad i was wrong.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I like how Alisae is one of the few people you can directly ask "What, are you HIGH?!" And they’ll probably say: "Actually..."

[NorwegianboyEE]

Aw that’s so nice Firebringer.
That’s 2 for the "Norwee is scum, but too snuggly to be lynched yet" tier.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Element flip will give much more valuable information than Clemency in my opinion. This excessive concern against the initial wagon from Humaneatingmonkey is pretty weird.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'd really like to solve Alisae's allignment, and a Elements flip would definitely help me with that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Did you really need to say that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m liking this voting count so far. We’re definitely on the right track. I’m pretty sure Elements is scum, but if he’s not. Cycle men should go tommorow.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Who bussed?

VOTE: firebringer0

You think Firebringer bussed?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cycle Men probably flips town and I think I saw Clemency actually try for once
Its sad but it had to be done

Idk, this feels kinda fake.
Worried Alisae might have been bussing here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And don't know if i trust ABR.

[NorwegianboyEE]

While i wouldn't be against a wagon on ABR, i find the points against Alisae too many to ignore.
VOTE: Alisae

[NorwegianboyEE]

It tells us that it’s hammertime.

[NorwegianboyEE]

While i wouldn't be against a wagon on ABR, i find the points against Alisae too many to ignore.
VOTE: Alisae

Two questions for you.

1. Why did you follow Cycle-scum's theory that Ali+human+Isis were a scum team?

2. Do you still think that they are a scum team?

Why would i think they are the scum team given his flip? Maybe he had 1 scum in there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I was tempted. But then you beat me to it. Idk if i actually would have.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That’s mostly because Votato set it up as a perfect punchline and it would be really funny.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That’s mostly because Votato set it up as a perfect punchline and it would be really funny.

I don’t understand what you’re saying.

Because you have absolutely no sense of humor. It must truly be an tragic existence.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Norwee
I'M GOLDEN ROBSTER NOW

What?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wish i could understand your post Isis. But i didn’t.

[NorwegianboyEE]

5G cell phone reception causes mafia outbreaks in town populations.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Alisae L-2

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee why are you voting me

Because scum was bussing Cycle Men and you look suspicious.

[NorwegianboyEE]

okay but Cycle Men is town so just lynch Norwee with me, yeah?

I mean, this is the kind of shit all over your ISO. And then you switch over to Cycle Men when he's close to getting lynch and hammer for the towncred.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cycle Men (7) Deimos27 (588), humaneatingmonkey (902), Isis (904), Firebringer (1234), Green Crayons (1240), Elements (1245), Alisae (1289)
Elements (4) Cycle Men (1002), NorwegianboyEE (1101), votato (1187), Albert B. Rampage (1251)
NorwegianboyEE (1) Looker (456)

This is a surprisingly polarized vote count. And ABR flipping town makes me wonder if 2 if not all of the scum were voting Cycle Men as a planned buss. Looker could be scum as well though. Idk how i feel about him sitting out the major wagons. Theoretically this could mean something completely different if Elements was scum too. But i'm not really going to consider that too much atm.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alisae, if not you. Who do you think could be scum on Cycle Men's wagon?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also consider that Cycle Men was mostly afk and doing fuckall at the beginning. So it was a obvious teammate to buss since he really didn't up his game until he was put into L-1.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So why did I not want to bus him earlier in the game?

I think the late joiners on the wagon are more likely to be scum bussing. That includes you. You were defending him at first, before switching to voting him with a slightly awkward hammer when he was L-1. That's not a good enough reason to suspect you? You seem to be shading the people voting you more than you are actually trying to solve atm.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You townread him when he was at the scummiest, and scumread him when he was at the towniest. That's not a natural progression Alisae.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You townread him when he was at the scummiest, and scumread him when he was at the towniest. That's not a natural progression Alisae.

When did I scumread him?

Quote the posts Norwee

Alright, call it fence-sitting. Call it whatever, you went from TR on Clemency, to changing your stance a lot, to deciding to TR him again and saying "he will probably flip town" after the hammer. Which is a typical scum way of appearing ignorant of the flips.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Lol. Be back if Alisae decides to come up with something better.
Definitely the best lynch today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because what flip discredits me more and makes me more lynchable
Cycle Men scumflip, or your townflip?

So you are saying me and Monkey had magical knowledge that you would defend Cycle men the way you did and 'planned' it all out the way you're imagining it? Lmao get outta here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sorry Looker, your posts and play just made me really mad in that game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Isis, Deimos, what is your stance on all this?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Isis, Deimos, what is your stance on all this?

All what?

I was referring to the events of today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Damn. Deimo's is bringing out fancy words to the table. Polemical.

[NorwegianboyEE]

pls dont tell me we are actually lynching ali

all 3 scum are lynching me dude
All 3 scum are on my wagon

[NorwegianboyEE]

lets lynch norwee.

Why?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also thought the wagon had objective merit and my tunnel was justified. Although I could have used some more of the time to discuss my reads with other people. I was convinced the wagon wasn't happening because scum wasn't bussing. Now, it could still be true, but there was a town POV in which it wasn't.

I'm sorry.

Hmm, HEM has overall seemed pretty sincere to me. And was a big reason i thought this wagon was justified and towndriven. Obviously i was wrong.
If i were to guess who scum inside this wagon would be i'll probably lean on Looker and Votato as my main suspicions by this point. Deimos townlean. Elements unsure.
Definitely scum outside of the wagon, i highly doubt they would all pile on a lynch like this. Especially since scum would know Alisae's flip beforehand and wouldn't want to make themselves look bad. Probably some joined their vote on me as i was the leading counter wagon. I do not believe GC is scum. Isis unsure because they weren't too active yesterday until the lynch happened sadly.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Norwegian

this is the only post I read i'm drunk rn VOTE: Norwee blood for alibae

Drunk people shouldn't play mafia.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why did Alisae townread Looker?

[NorwegianboyEE]

HEM. What is your read on Firebringer? And your overall stance on the game knowing the Alisae flip?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Elements, why don't you ever explain your votes?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why couldn't me/Ali be TvT from your perspective?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You know, Elements. Even though you've voted me multiple times. You haven't a single time engaged me with anything or commented on anything i've said.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Am i supposed to believe this is your towngame?

[NorwegianboyEE]

NowEE tell me about your reads and what you're looking for today.

First of all. I would like it if Elements and Isis could explain their vote on me with more detail.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If i'm going to be mislynched i would at least like some of the players blind voting me to state their reasons, otherwise it would be a wasted lynch with much less info when i inevitably flip town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NowEE tell me about your reads and what you're looking for today.

First of all. I would like it if Elements and Isis could explain their vote on me with more detail.

What do you get out of that?

Currently reading GC's post. NorwEE, if you can give a rebuttal on GC's case against you, that would help my reads.

I've got some more time recently so i'm going to comb over it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me post a reply to GC's case FFS.
This isn't democracy, it's mob rule.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh. Don’t respond to my case Norwegian.

Make a case for votato

Uh, ok.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

2. Norwegian, votato, and ABR all failed to actually give reasons for their Elements vote. votato gave reasons why he should be voting other people. ABR gave reasons why he shouldn't have voted Elements to counter the Cycle wagon. I think that makes each of them suspicious for their separate reasons.

As scum (typically) want to socially distance on votes, because Norwegian was the closest-in-time to Cycle-scum's Elements vote (skipping Ali), he's less suspicious. Also, while Norwegian didn't give a reason for his vote, he doesn't have extra baggage like votato or ABR.

I don't really know which of votato's (giving reasons to vote other players) or ABR's (giving reasons to not join the Elements counterwagon) additional baggage is more suspicious. I'm disinclined to believe that 3 scum were on the Elements-wagon, though, so they're both on my shortlist for today.

The reasons given here are not something i would find scum-indicative. Voting without any stated reason isn't a good scumtell, most players this game have done it at some point, and ABR for example flipped green. Even if the logic works, it implicates votato much more strongly, and also Elements for his behaviour these other days.

Scum either:

was bussing Cycle (Deimos, humna, Isis, FB, Crayons, Elements, Ali)
was voting Elements counterwagon (Norwegian, votato)
or was not voting (Looker)

Norwegian's theory here is that scum was not voting the Elements counterwagon alongside Cycle-scum, which (A) asks the town to avoid scrutinizing the Elements counterwagon which he was one; (B) allows him ignore votato, who would the only potential scum on the Elements counterwagon if Norwegian-town, which is useful if votato-town and Norwegin-scum because now Norwegian doesn't need to come up with bad reasons to vote votato-town; and (C) avoids the obvious sequence of, if votato is town, then Norwegian is the other scum alternative on the Elements counter-wagon.

This is a gross misrepresentation of your theory, which said that there were probably 2, maybe 3 bussers, not that there are definitely 3. So it works as no excuse whatsoever to stop suspecting Elements or Looker (who you even explicitly consider in the same post).

I find it more weird that someone wouldn't know there are 4 scum in this game. Like they are pretending to be idiots to get townread.

If ur town I would honestly like to hydra with you to understand your view on the game, because takes like these are just bad. Not even scummy bad in this case, just flat out bad.

I think the anger is real. I just can’t see a town view getting so angry to call a type of play stupid when there’s not really momentum going his way.

I was not putting in much effort into the game early on, why can't my behaviour come from town here? Firebringer even agreed that it's quite easy to fake stupidity to get townread.

I just saw scum hardbus to transition to wanting to promote the counterwagon to them when they started to play the game

Ie they wanted to bus when the slot was doing nothing, and save it when the slot was doing things

Major confirmation bias here. Just because there exists a world where scum me might do this, it doesn't mean that is the case, when there exist equally many and imo, more worlds where town me would do this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't think Norwee would triple counterwagon as scum

Norwee can you confirm you would never be that naughty?

Most likely not.
Can we be sure that Elements was a counterwagon though? Remember that the idea precepitates a lot of current thought right now, but i’m not entirely sure if it’s true. Either way, Votato seems scummy to me. He’s completely changed his reads and gone opportunistic mode based on the flip yesterday by voting me. And i don’t like his recent posts like at all. Might go into more detail if i get the time, but i think it should be quite self-evident to an observant player.
VOTE: Votato

[NorwegianboyEE]

I might just be annoyed because he has literally been ignoring all my posts and questions directed at him, and very blatant about it too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee do you think I'm scum

I think Votato!scum would point at town!you. So that's been my stance recently.
But if i'll have to look outside of my current suspects then i'm not sure. I'm hoping it won't need to come to that point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t think i need to link anything. Because if Isis is town then she’ll be able to keep me in check anyways.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee do you remember when GeorgeBailey was naughty and you didn't give him a spanking?

And this game you acknowledged that Cycle Men was very bad, but you were not there for his final spanking

Do you understand why I am concerned about you?

Ok, i understand your way of thinking here. But fact of the matter is. Unless you're going to claim that the team is exactly me/Looker/Votato. Then there is a pretty damn high chance scum was on the Cycle Men wagon. Most likely at any point in time, not just at the last second. Because Alisae is confirmed town and they hammered Cycle Men. GC and various others have stated that Votato/me team seems unlikely. So the fact that the focus is mainly about the people on the Elements wagon here seems like a overall dishonest narrative, because a vote on either me or Votato should be supplemented with reads about potential partners ON the Cycle Men wagon. And that suggests taking a deep and good look at all of the people around. Not just going with a "golden group" or whatevetr BS Firebringer was pushing. Elements too is scummy A F for going on autopilot and completely ignoring questions. Yet he seems to be getting away with it. While i am not feeling a townread on Votato at all, what's to say this isn't all just a bad lead being pushed by certain suspicious people that aren't getting the attention and scumreads that they deserve? And yes, i'm saying it right now. If Votato for some reason flips green. It's time to rethink this game, because the current solve is clearly not working.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Honestly, if given the choice. I'd much rather lynch one of Firebringer/Elements. But that's not going to happen clearly. Since the only lynch options that seems agreed upon now are Votato/me. In which case i'd always advocate for Votato over me. But i really see so many scummy people that haven't been put under enough pressure yet.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How do you think it's Elements if they were the counterwagon to Cycle Men?

Do you have conclusive evidence it really was a counterwagon?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because if Elements is scum here, then "Elements was the counterwagon to scum" is exactly the narrative i'd expect scum to be pushing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Looking at Elements ISO i feel like there is a clear dip in quality from D1 VS D2-3-4 when Cycle Men was lynched.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because if Elements is scum here, then "Elements was the counterwagon to scum" is exactly the narrative i'd expect scum to be pushing.

who is the scum pushing this narrative?

I'm not saying anything conclusive yet, but GC has been pushing for it hard. And that's the first name to come out the top of my head.

[NorwegianboyEE]

He keeps twisting.

I don't feel like i've been doing this at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wasn't a dick to Ali. I've only been an ass to Norwegian this game.

Hey. At least you're totally open about it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm a bit worried GC is either trying to line up lynches here, or knows Votato has to go and wants me to die first. I don't understand why he would hard scumread Votato and end up voting me. How does that even make sense? He's trying to pass it off as a "i'm equally scumreading both" but there is a clear bias here. He hasn't once voted Votato.

[NorwegianboyEE]

god your so annoying

Lmao.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can feel a friendship brewing between us. Crayon man.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'd expect better from you Votato. No need to be so crude.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because gc unvoted before i could hammer

what does that tell you about GC?

So you are saying me and GC are aligned?

[NorwegianboyEE]

fucking puzzle that out for me. from early on day 1 norwee was scum. and somehow every day pressure builds and gets deflected. theres at least 2 scum on my wagon, guaranteed.

This is just faulty thinking. Just because someone get's wagoned and then the pressure dies off is not a valid reason to conclude someone has to be scum. You shouldn't be surprised to get scumread and lynched when all you bring to the table is such one-dimensional thinking.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not "everyone" agrees i am scum. You haven't even been reading the game right if you think that is true.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Some people haven't even expressed a read on me, they just vote me for no fucking reason. Like our friend Elements over there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

also i have been efforting...

I really hope you are scum this game cus i ain't seeing it. You had some nice fluff posts though, and you do indeed have some moments of funny. But if this is your towngame and how you "effort" then i'm not impressed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Longest twilight ever.

[NorwegianboyEE]

really don't want to think past my next lynch because I feel so much like I've been rekt already

Yeah, don't even try anymore. That's a good look.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I really just wanna do 1 redlynch than do team thought exercises and wallow in paranoia tho

You are focusing on one player to lynch rather than the whole picture. That is not town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

also why is everyone saying "thats [Not] a good luck" when did everyone start spamming these look shits?

That's not a good look, eh looker? Take a look at this guy who thinks looks aren't a good look to consider.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why are you talking like my lynch is already a decided conclusion?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mafia from home was a loss.

[NorwegianboyEE]

okay but u still were on the offense team, not the defense team.

I've been low-key stating that Elements is passive, weaksauce and scummy as shit but nobody listens. It was a tunnel on me/Votato all day.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I gave u leeway earlier because u said ur busy with life shit (exams) but u got excuses for me now? What up?

Excuses? Where? I ain't seen no excuses nowhere. Not here, not there, not anywhere.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That wasn't a part of the discussion. You made it sound like i had made other types of excuses than the quintessential one.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not interested in furries. Sorry to disappoint.

[NorwegianboyEE]

whats the purpose of 2288. It looks manipulative to me. Explain ur thought process.

I was mainly voicing my thoughts regarding your actual vs advertised play up to that point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why did that particular post catch your attention?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Should I be townreading you?

You should nullread me, and take a good look at the wagons.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Should i bother with all that effort or just let my flip speak for itself.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I mean, it will be LYLO tommorow.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wasn’t playing Isis’s game. That’s what you saw.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m not gonna sit here and hold a fucking powerpoint presentation about why everything in my ISO indicates i’m town. I’ve been tunneled since day 1 so it wouldn’t convince anyone anyway. If any of y’all voting me are town then you deserve to lose anyway. I’m just over it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i'm playing mafia Norwee. Do you scumread me?

Nobody hammer. I am looking at something.

No, mainly just dissapointed in you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The theorem is that from the initial wagon. All lynches except for one. Has been off-wagon. And of the off-wagon lynches they have all flipped town.
Scum was bussing and now we’ve been led into mislynch after mislynch.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The me/vs Votato lynch theory from GC were both on town and i highly suspect he wanted to frame competing TvT wagons as having scum in it. Well played really. I don’t think that slot could possibly be town at this point.
VOTE: Green Crayons

[NorwegianboyEE]

Most likely one of HEM/Elements are the teammates. I could see Firebringer as well, but ehhh...

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yes, i was on Alisae’s wagon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee tell me why 1 person is certainly town

You want certainty in a VT only game? Well, the person i’ve consintently failed to get any bad vibes from has to be Deimos. I just can’t see anything fake from their posts. And read progression is genuine. I’d like them to post more and give their input about today though.
I also think your reconsideration here is a townie thing to do. Scum!you would most likely just hammer me here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

did you eat ali

HAHA LOL.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I already told you my reads didn't i?

[NorwegianboyEE]

yeah but used tools of townplay i don't personally like to use that much so i feel less pocketed

What?

[NorwegianboyEE]

NorwEE, when you're scum and you're about to be lynched, what do you do and why did they have a hard time lynching you until D3/4?

Are you saying you want to see my scum games? Well ok.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81655
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=80998

[NorwegianboyEE]

No, I want you to describe it Norwee.

Ok...? I don't know what you expect to hear. I usually react the same way as town or scum if i'm about o be lynched i think.

[NorwegianboyEE]

No, I want you to describe it Norwee.

Ok...? I don't know what you expect to hear. I usually react the same way as town or scum if i'm about o be lynched i think.

Try to differentiate. I'm not expecting anything. Just an honest description.

Well. I always tend to use AtE when about to be lynched regardless of alignment. But a bit more as scum maybe. That's all i can think of.

[NorwegianboyEE]

They didn't have a hard time lynching me. The alternatives presented were all town. So any scum teams wouldn't require any effort to get me lynched. You're presenting the narrative like i'm scummy because i didn't get lynched by scum yet. But ask yourself, how is it logical for scum to hard push my lynch when no serious lynching alternatives that weren't confirmed as town later. Has been ever strongly considered?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ruling out day 1. All serious wagons with any amount of traction has been on me or slots later confirmed to be town. Why would scum 'need' to push for my lynch in that case? Why would they need to put in any amount of effort at all?
How does these factors consider in your "Norwee is scummy because he hasn't been lynched yet" conclusion?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not presenting any narratives, Norwee. I'm trying to get you to corroborate on Isis' story on your scum game together.

Were you talking about the previous game? Perhaps you should have elaborated, because i thought you were asking me why scum has had a difficult time lynching me in this game so far.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not trying to push any conclusions Norwee, I'm trying to get you to corroborate on this story:

posting.php?mode=quote&f=51&p=11811199

Fusion Mafia was a game that HEAVILY discouraged bussing on teammates. That's why i survived so long, because if i had been lynched. Then my teammates would immediately get lynched afterwards, so the only way to win was to never get a teammate lynched in the first place. Of course, as predicted my teammates died immediately after i did.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And consider how difficult it would be to survive if you cannot buss and your teammates are subpar and scumread by everyone. Obviously i would be scumread for defending them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee, do you think you're using AtE to defend yourself right now?

Yes, and i've already stated i use it regardless of alignments.
Tommorow is LYLO if i'm lynched too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

HEM, do you townread GC?

[NorwegianboyEE]

And do you see a world where me/GC are aligned if he is scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I use both.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And do you see a world where me/GC are aligned if he is scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Associations mean jackshit this game TBH.

Bullshit.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Isis is pulling night shift work while drinking confirmed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Who do you believe is manipulating you?

[NorwegianboyEE]

And if i don’t. You’re voting GC?
What would your next action be assuming i did flip scum then? What is this thesis about?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Thing is. If i need to go, i would like town to be in good hands. And i’m not sure i’m convinced town will win if this sheeping of players is going to continue.