Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

So theoretically, would mafia/werewolf roleblockers block claimed power roles that investigate the other team?

[Dunnstral]

And you need to know this because...?

Do you want me to answer this?

[Dunnstral]

btw Dunnstral is posting elsewhere on site that's not here sooooo that's also a good wagon

Really lame take

[Dunnstral]

SPAMMING THE NEWB CARD TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM POTENTIAL MISTAKE

This is almost always wrong/bad/scummy reasoning

In fact I don't find the rest of your reasons in this post to be much better.

[Dunnstral]

@dunny are you caught up?

Let's say yes

[Dunnstral]

Honestly I kinda like Dramonic. They are at least producing content/providing reasoning behind reads (hey, Hiraki, any time you want to hit up 295 that would be grand). While I disagree with their takes, I can see the reasoning and I like the different perspective. I also dont really feel like they're misrepping.

1. Multiball dynamics matter because scum do want to scumhunt, just the other team.

You're so close

[Dunnstral]

Honestly I kinda like Dramonic. They are at least producing content/providing reasoning behind reads (hey, Hiraki, any time you want to hit up 295 that would be grand). While I disagree with their takes, I can see the reasoning and I like the different perspective. I also dont really feel like they're misrepping.

1. Multiball dynamics matter because scum do want to scumhunt, just the other team.

You're so close

Actually there's a lack of critical thinking here, I think they threw out the read because they felt they had to

VOTE: teacher

[Dunnstral]

Dann, teacher
Umlaut, testa, dram
Triple, marashu
A50
Gypx, dunn
Gamma
Hiraki

Scummy list to be quite honest.

[Dunnstral]

Why?

Trying to place everyone into super organized tiers this early in the game

And what is it based on?

And I'm in the final 4 along with gypyx who is probably an inactive player, and you're likely towning a bunch of scum.

Teacher isn't even attempting to veil his omgus vote above, no pretenses and no explanations

[Dunnstral]

if I am towning scum, then I'll realise that if and when my scum reads flip town

nice

[Dunnstral]

Yeah Dunn imma need a little more from you

Sure, I plan on talking more as the game continues to exist

[Dunnstral]

@dunstral, what ya doin?

idk, feelin' kinda cute, might read the thread soon

[Dunnstral]

I don't see why we're not voting teacher and are isntead voting me for not posting? What are we hoping to accomplish

[Dunnstral]

I don't think your teacher teacher teacher teacher iso comes from scumbuddies

[Dunnstral]

Honestly I kinda like Dramonic. They are at least producing content/providing reasoning behind reads (hey, Hiraki, any time you want to hit up 295 that would be grand). While I disagree with their takes, I can see the reasoning and I like the different perspective. I also dont really feel like they're misrepping.

1. Multiball dynamics matter because scum do want to scumhunt, just the other team.

You're so close

Actually there's a lack of critical thinking here, I think they threw out the read because they felt they had to

VOTE: teacher

[Dunnstral]

I also don’t think teacher is scum

vote for someone you think is scum

[Dunnstral]

Jake who do you want to vote?

[Dunnstral]

Because teacher is hoping that more votes on dunn will prompt dunn to actually play the game

VOTE: Menalque

Not going to play around this game, anybody who participates in bad faith pushes get eliminated

[Dunnstral]

"Even if I were either a Sinner or a Werewolf, why wouldn't the other team ote me? It would reflect grandly on them, no?"

Not sure what this argument is supposed to be? Can you argue that you're not a sinner or a werewolf instead of saying the other team is pushing you

[Dunnstral]

I didn't think jake's predecessor was scummy, not he's acting like bait for the elimination

[Dunnstral]

And why did Marashu move there?

[Dunnstral]

That would also happen if you voted out Penguin :susseyes:

Why would we vote out penguin?

[Dunnstral]

Why would we not

keep in mind I still need to read

You're going to need to prove a positive rather than waiting for someone to prove a negative when trying to eliminate someone

Saying "why not eliminate x" isn't how things really work

[Dunnstral]

Dramonic, Hiraki,

I think there's a good chance you're both town, at least one of you believes I might be town,

let's real talk.

I think you guys need to pull your heads out of your asses and realize that just because you haven't gotten along with Menalque in this game specifically doesn't mean he isn't town. And at this point refusing to reevaluate him is extremely anti-town.

First of all, it is extremely rare (particularly in the site's current meta) for scum to top post in a game. What's even rarer is for that top poster to have OVER DOUBLE the next poster's total post count. Menalque has more posts than Dramonic and Hiraki COMBINED. The last scum player I saw who could maintain that type of presence was RadiantCowbells.

But okay, you might say, Menalque has posted a lot of fluff. Or he's posting a lot because he's been caught since page 3 and he's flailing. Let's ignore his mild temper tantrum from the last few pages that he absolutely never throws as scum because all it accomplishes is destroying his own credibility. Let's ignore the fact that his frustration with the game reads extremely genuine and it's backed up by 300+ posts of earnest solving that no one in this game approaches. I say we should ignore it because even though the AtE here (not all AtE is scum) SHOULD be confirming Menalque is town to you, you're going to brush it off as "lul he's frustrated scum who got caught."

Why isn't he frustrated scum who just got caught? Consider the fact that he's continually tried to question both of you to get a better read on your alignments despite the fact that the majority of your responses have been "lul caught scum." Unless he thinks he can pocket you, he has very little reason to do this as scum versus primarily appealing to the crowd. But, even despite dramonic being like a brick wall to talk to, Menalque has evolved his scum read on dramonic from early in the game to a town read. That's not something that furthers his win condition as scum. Continuing to try to engage with you fruitlessly is also a hallmark of town desperation, not scum desperation. Neither of you carry the influence in this game that your confidence suggests, scum!Menalque does not need to be afraid of you or appease you in anyway. Menalque has consistently tried to get some kind of good faith engagement going with both of you.

The popular theory, from dramonic at least, I think is that Menalque and TH/Jake are teamed. I can tell you right now that giving up with a lot of AtE and exasperatingly voting Jake is not how scum busses. Just via the amount of posting Menalque has done this game you can tell he cares a lot. If he's scum and realizes his partner is going down, he's going to bus for cred. What he's doing now actively strips his credibility no matter what.

And then like, his focus hasn't even entirely been on you guys. Actually contrary to both of you, who seem to have very few reads... Hiraki is actually better in this regard, dramonic just seems to focus on his scum team. Menalque has from the start of the game tried to make sense of the entire player list. Go into his ISO and look specifically at his read trajectory on Gamma, try to step into his shoes for a moment and realize, wow, that's a towny trajectory that actually makes a lot of sense even if you don't agree with it. Even this late into D1, he's constantly returning to slots like Gypx or Marashu and reevaluating. Slots that have barely posted enough to be reevaluated. It's a level of effort that is A. not needed or optimal from scum!Menalque and B. just more likely to come from town earnestly wanting to solve the game.

I'm writing all of this because I think it's actually fairly probable that you could both be town. But I'm not sure. One of the major sticking points for me with both of your slots (more dramonic than you Hiraki, to be fair) is your continued insistence that Menalque is this open-wolf scum to the point that you seem to refuse to reevaluate at all. I'm not sure if it's scummy because I've seen far more frustrating plays from town before, but it sure as hell is anti-town.

It's exacerbated by the fact that your reads don't seem to have progressed in 40 pages. I don't get the sense you're really reading Menalque's post or absorbing new information and assimilating that with the reads you decided on page 10.

I don't know, just be a little transparent here? Talk to me? Even if you think I'm scum? Or both of us are scum?

ok

VOTE: teacher

[Dunnstral]

If we're not going to eliminate Jake after a vt claim then we shouldn't have asked him to claim at all. Eliminate teacher.

[Dunnstral]

He said he would catch up in the game and he really isn't

When did I say that?

[Dunnstral]

Because I don't want to eliminate him, but if you guys are going to force him to claim you should go through with it instead of backing out after a claim.

[Dunnstral]

Or we shouldn't make him claim in the first place.

[Dunnstral]

Maybe we can elim scum now

[Dunnstral]

Once someone replaces in I'll, in a comedic way (or not), say: "guess not"

[Dunnstral]

Maybe we can elim scum now

RCEnigma replaces Testarossa.

guess not

[Dunnstral]

Intent to hammer

[Dunnstral]

So why does it look bad if he is mafia?

[Dunnstral]

Intent to hammer

Can’t be bothered to answer questions or....do much of anything can you?

I did not see them.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Marashu

iirc last time I tried this Bell wouldn't vote there and then anyone else off the Jake wagon only wanted to push their own vanity wagons

Maybe? My opinion on them is pretty neutral

Apologies to keep flipping myself, but Im not comfortable with what is basically a 9-3 consensus lynch,

The scum teams only have 2 people each

BAD REASONING. I'll call it out every time I see it.

[Dunnstral]

Unvote please.

At 8:1:1 that is soon to become 7:1, massclaim might help given the sheer number of PRs — we can list out all the clears and chain investigations so that it becomes true auto.

I love that Bell can’t counterclaim, despite softing a PR o day start.

There is no "chain investigations", seer can't find mafia

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Bell

[Dunnstral]

Mass claim should happen tomorrow

[Dunnstral]

VC 1.26

Jake The Wolfie (5) - dramonic, Hiraki, Marashu, Almost50, Bell [E-2]

teacher (2) - Dunnstral, RCEnigma
Dunnstral (2) - PenguinPower, teacher
dramonic (1) - Gamma Emerald
Hiraki (1) - Jake The Wolfie
Marashu (1) - Dannflor

Not voting: Chemist1422

With 13 alive it takes 7 to exile.

Day 1 deadline is currently frozen at 4 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes until replacements are found.

Marashu has been prodded.

Last mafia is probably in Penguin/Gamma/Teacher/Chemist. It can likely be narrowed down further from pr claims and actions tomorrow

[Dunnstral]

Of those, Chemist/Teacher both basically said 'whatever' and voted jake at the last moment, while Penguin was actively campaigning for anybody else he could convince. Gamma did a bit where he asked someone why they thought jake was town, then a few posts later said they were considering lobbying against the wagon, but after reading decided against it. Kind of weird progression

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn: so who WAS your investigation

Bell, but I was roleblocked